Support NeoGAF

[SargerusBR]

ENB confirmed Rom is female and is Kin. Interesting.

:O

 

[Beelzebufo]

ENB confirmed Rom is female and is Kin. Interesting.

Interesting! But stupid haha. Rom even means "Man".

I wonder if the location of Chalice Dungeon bosses suggests they were there at some point (and explain the rest by dimension shit). Ebrietas was found in Isz, Laurence got old blood from Loran, Yharnam was a Pthumerian, Blood-Starved Beast probably got the ashen plague (poison) from those Hintertomb areas (although I guess you could argue BSB is a generic enemy, but that suggests at least where the plague comes from).

I wonder if that means Rom was either someone who first found out about the slugs in the ruins, or if she was maybe a Pthumerian.

Asked on twitter, he says its a guess because quote "she's the supreme spider baby-momma"

Oh okay. Well yeah I don't believe that then lol, if only because of the name alone. I thought it was a nice way to tie into the fact that Rom was once human.

 

[SoraanTribal]

I think the supposed "bad" and "other bad" ending make more sense to me than the "Good" ending. I just don't understand why you turn into a slug and potentially the next Moon Presence when you killed it. I think the "bad" ending is my favorite one personally even if it is just a false happiness - you escaped the nightmare/dream, but left others trapped inside and the cycle continues. My question is... who is dreaming that world? Laurence? Who is that?

 

[Yurt]

won't somebody please ask ENB about the veil

the veil guys THE VEIL

 

[Beelzebufo]

won't somebody please ask ENB about the veil

the veil guys THE VEIL

Haha the worst part is the word itself. I think it would even annoy me less if people used the word "ritual" to describe what they're saying instead of veil, even if I think that's still likely wrong.

But they don't even say "veil" in the game!

Wait...

It's all coming together now.

 

[Gbraga]

There are two lore notes that make me question what Laurence was up to when he beckoned the moon.

"Nightmarish rituals crave a newborn. Find one, and silence its harrowing cry."

and

"Madmen toil surreptitiously in rituals to beckon the moon. Uncover their secrets."

Does that mean that Laurence used a newborn to beckon the Moon Presence originally? Was Mergo used to beckon the Moon Presence by Laurence, and is that why Yharnam looks like the child was ripped out of her? I am be behind on lore.

I think discovering more stuff about Rom will open up a lot of information, like why Willem wants us to meet Rom, why Rom is considered vacuous, where he exists, and whether or not his enlightenment is shared when you kill him, which lets you see the amygdalas / red moon (his enlightenment being the veil people complain about) or a more eastern sense of enlightenment that would be uncouth and dishonest to share. I, too, like the idea presented earlier that 'Vacuous Spider' is more of a moniker than anything meant to be taken literally.

Bloodborne's mechanics are explained with the bells that were relics of the choir, used to cross gaps between worlds. I think it's a fun explanation because the Great Ones inhabit the cosmos and seem like some kind of divine infestation on all instances of Yharnam, which is why new worlds were created like the Dream and Nightmare to separate inhabitants from the existence of the Great Ones. Or try to draw closer... whatever.

Yeah, I definitely feel like a lot of things will be more clear when we understand Rom better. But how can we ever understand a Great One? We are only thinking on the basest of planes.

 

[Sephiroth_GR_]

Wait, Rom is a chick?!

 

[Beelzebufo]

Wait, Rom is a chick?!

Nah. Well, I guess he could be. ENB is just guessing.

 

[Sephiroth_GR_]

Nah. Well, I guess he could be. ENB is just guessing.

I saw through the comments that he responded with this:

"She sure does have a lot of lil baby spiders, though."

and another guy responds with this:

"Females are generally the larger, stronger and dominant Sex in Arachnids, also male Arachnids usually don't surround themselves with babbies."

so it kinda makes sense...kinda...

 

[Gbraga]

Wait, Rom is a chick?!

I assumed it was a dude, because Rom sounds like a male name to me, but I don't think it matters at all.

I saw through the comments that he responded with this:

"She sure does have a lot of lil baby spiders, though."

and another guy responds with this:

"Females are generally the larger, stronger and dominant Sex in Arachnids, also male Arachnids usually don't surround themselves with babbies."

so it kinda makes sense...kinda...

Indeed, it does.

 

[pantsmith]

Those technical mechanics are explained by the fact that it's a video game and follows the conventions of the Souls series. Demon's Souls didn't have a real explanation for enemies respawning yet NPCs changing permanently. Dark Souls actually took a stab at this because using a bonfire creates a wave of energy that heals the player *and* revives minor enemies on par with the player.

Bloodborne doesn't bother. It uses From's trademark design conventions and that's pretty much it. It doesn't even really go deep into the "there are many worlds, time is fractured" reasoning for summoning used in past games. It just mentions other worlds and leaves it at that.

The other games explained everything, however loosely. The From trademark design is that their world accounts for and reinforces the mechanics at work, so I don't see why Bloodborne (a game where every little detail has its place) is suddenly going to be different. That's just lazy, and I don't think this game is lazy.

Demons Souls accounts for player death by binding your soul to the Nexus, so you can never truly die until the Nexus lets you. Monsters reappearing is tied to the Old Ones fog, covering the world and distorting reality. The Monumental even explains that reality is breaking, so some weirdness is to be expected as your world overlaps with the worlds of others.

Likewise, Dark Souls I and II mention that the flow of time is distorted, and that you are cursed to come back from the dead when you die because of the dark sign. Enemies come back from the dead? It's because time is all messed up and corrected itself. Enemies stop coming back from the dead, like in Dark Souls II? It fits with the land spiraling further into a broken mess -- now not even time can correct itself the way it used to.

While it's easy to say "it's just a game, and that's just a mechanic", I think it defeats the purpose of discussing it in a dedicated lore thread.

Regarding Bloodborne, I think the game makes it pretty clear our point of view is tainted, and any weirdness can be accounted for with dream logic and our perception of the world being broken. Other players are considered guests from neighboring dimensions, but they could just as easily be nightmares or visions brought on by the ringing bells. Who knows for sure? The truth is that it's interesting to think about, and vague enough to be acceptable.

Hell, you could replace the nondescript "fog" from Demons Souls with the word "nightmare" and it's he same, vague supernatural force.

 

[Beelzebufo]

I saw through the comments that he responded with this:

"She sure does have a lot of lil baby spiders, though."

and another guy responds with this:

"Females are generally the larger, stronger and dominant Sex in Arachnids, also male Arachnids usually don't surround themselves with babbies."

so it kinda makes sense...kinda...

Yeah, you could definitely argue that. Most of the big dudes in this game are women too.

But "Rom" does mean "man" (not woman) amongst the Romani people, so take that for what you will

I'm also not convinced the spiders are "babies", considering they drop madman's knowledge.

 

[KoruptData]

I always assumed Rom was female because she has her babies attack. After seeing you guys think it was a male, I questioned why I thought the way I did. Guess my brain assumed a male would be the "protector" of the children and wouldn't hide behind them. Where a female would have her kids try to protect her. The kids would willingly do this because they figure they need their mom and a few sacrifices are worth it for the greater good.

Gave this too much thought.

 

[Kurtofan]

Were the Dark Souls official guides good for lore stuff? Or generally well made? I'm thinking of getting the Bloodborne guide.

 

[Yurt]

I'd like to think that the baby spiders were students as well

They look a bit like the frenzy mobs with the Choir clothes outside of Byrgenwerth, except fully transformed! You could clearly make out the spider's legs growing out of their backs!! To me it looked like they were in the process of turning into spiders/some kinda Godless bug

And I'm sure there's an explanation for that fireball creature too

 

[pantsmith]

won't somebody please ask ENB about the veil

the veil guys THE VEIL

Haha the worst part is the word itself. I think it would even annoy me less if people used the word "ritual" to describe what they're saying instead of veil, even if I think that's still likely wrong.

But they don't even say "veil" in the game!

"Veil" is such a broad and frequently used word/metaphor when talking about perception and Lovecraftian themes. You can't blame people for throwing it around when it fits with the genre.

 

[Beelzebufo]

"Veil" is such a broad and frequently used word/metaphor when talking about perception and Lovecraftian themes. You can't blame people for throwing it around when it fits with the genre.

I can when its completely fabricated from those genre implications, and some people insist it's a thing lol.

 

[Steel]

I can when its completely fabricated from those genre implications, and some people insist it's a thing lol.

I wouldn't say it's completely fabricated considering the series of events immediately following Rom's death. You kill Rom, it rains blood, all of a sudden you see the queen being creepy, you see the red moon in Rom's boss room, and you get teleported and told that the prophecy you read in notes before is true and to kill a baby by a message while the red moon is out. It's no stretch to think that Rom's death triggered that series of events and that Rom was holding it back, I mean she doesn't even start off hostile and only her babies defend her in her first phase as she backs away from you so she doesn't seem malevolent at least.

 

[Beelzebufo]

I wouldn't say it's completely fabricated considering the series of events immediately following Rom's death. You kill Rom, it rains blood, all of a sudden you see the queen being creepy, you see the red moon in Rom's boss room, and you get teleported and told that the prophecy you read in notes before is true and to kill a baby by a message while the red moon is out. It's no stretch to think that Rom's death triggered that series of events and that Rom was holding it back, I mean she doesn't even start off hostile and only her babies defend her in her first phase as she backs away from you so she doesn't seem malevolent at least.

None of that has anything to do with a veil lol. So yeah, I'd say it's a stretch. He doesn't attack you because he's vacuous, he doesn't do anything at all (including making a "veil").

You know, like the notes and descriptions suggest.

 

[Orochinagis]

Can wait to see a female/male species of Rom wonder if the female is bigger

Were the Dark Souls official guides good for lore stuff? Or generally well made? I'm thinking of getting the Bloodborne guide.

The thing with Souls games is there is not a decisive evidence or exact lore but implications on propurse to make the fanbase debate and grow about the lore.

Nah. Well, I guess he could be. ENB is just guessing.

I wonder why some are following him blindy since he is guessing the facts as well.

 

[Gbraga]

I wouldn't say it's completely fabricated considering the series of events immediately following Rom's death. You kill Rom, it rains blood, all of a sudden you see the queen being creepy, you see the red moon in Rom's boss room, and you get teleported and told that the prophecy you read in notes before is true and to kill a baby by a message while the red moon is out. It's no stretch to think that Rom's death triggered that series of events and that Rom was holding it back, I mean she doesn't even start off hostile and only her babies defend her in her first phase as she backs away from you so she doesn't seem malevolent at least.

To be fair, none of this happens when you kill Rom, it happens when you approach Yharnam.

You can just sit there for hours after killing Rom and none of this will happen, IIRC.

Which raises the question, if you kill Yharnam in the chalice dungeons on NG+ before Rom, does she still appear in the story? If so, are there story implications to the chalice dungeons not being on the same timeline or whatever or is it just because the game wouldn't work otherwise?

I wonder why some are following him blindy since he is guessing the facts as well.

Well, he doesn't do the whole "Ludwig is Cleric Beast, BOOM" thing, he always says "I assume", "I could be wrong", "this is just me speculating" and so on, so it's easier to take his word for it when he states something.

 

[Orochinagis]

To be fair, none of this happens when you kill Rom, it happens when you approach Yharnam.

But she have the lantern right inside on her a....You cant escape unless you teleport.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Yeah pretty such the dungeons are alt dimensions, like where you pull others from. You (probably) see Laurence, Rom, Yharnam, Ebreitas, and a whole bunch of other characters.

 

[Beaulieu]

But she have the lantern right inside on her a....You cant escape unless you teleport.

I died right as I killed rom
World wasnt change, I went back to the lake and talked to Yarnham and then the world changed.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I died right as I killed rom
World wasnt change, I went back to the lake and talked to Yarnham and then the world changed.

To be fair, I don't think that's expected behaviour.

 

[Beelzebufo]

To be fair, I don't think that's expected behaviour.

Yeah, I'd agree.

It also sort of is more in favor of the "veil" theory than not.

What exactly is Kin? Alien creatures? if so,i've read that Kin are weak to bolt,whereas Beasts are weak to fire.

If that's the case, we could test it on some bosses like Rom or Moon Presence or The One Reborn or Ebrietas to see if they're indeed Kin or not...

Kin are generally anything with Great One influence. Rom drops kin cold blood, Celestial mobs are kin despite once being human, etc.

 

[Sephiroth_GR_]

What exactly is Kin? Alien creatures? if so i've read that Kin are weak to bolt,whereas Beasts are weak to fire.

If that's the case, we could test it on some bosses like Rom or Moon Presence or The One Reborn or Ebrietas to see if they're indeed Kin or not...

 

[HTVfanatic]

What exactly is Kin? Alien creatures? if so i've read that Kin are weak to bolt,whereas Beasts are weak to fire.

If that's the case, we could test it on some bosses like Rom or Moon Presence or The One Reborn or Ebrietas to see if they're indeed Kin or not...

I used bolt on Rom and it definitely did more damage than fire..

 

[Beelzebufo]

How do the rituals being carried out by Mensis cause the spreading scourge of beasts?

What happens if you coffin jump to Iosafka before you beat Gascoigne?

 

[LiK]

Were the Dark Souls official guides good for lore stuff? Or generally well made? I'm thinking of getting the Bloodborne guide.

DkS2 guide also had contributions by ENB/AGS and it was a great guide for lore and names. pretty comprehensive stuff overall. I'm pretty excited to read up some stuff in the BB guide.

 

[indigo-cyclops]

I always assumed Rom was female because she has her babies attack. After seeing you guys think it was a male, I questioned why I thought the way I did. Guess my brain assumed a male would be the "protector" of the children and wouldn't hide behind them. Where a female would have her kids try to protect her. The kids would willingly do this because they figure they need their mom and a few sacrifices are worth it for the greater good.

Gave this too much thought.

A female would have her kids protect her? That's backwards, I think.

Can we even speculate that the creature is of a gender? It's an interesting question, but not sure how much it matters overall.

 

[GorillaJu]

Rom was an academy figure at Byrgenwerth. I think the baby spiders are his/her transformed students.

A professor would definitely let their students protect them

 

[milkham]

I still don't quite grasp it; what makes our Hunter more special than the ones roaming Yharnam like Eileen or Djura. Why are we still dreaming and they're not...? And how come a connection to dream makes our Hunter basically an immortal with unlimited retries....?

We know this isn't the first hunt, perhaps Djura and Eileen no longer dream because they chose to submit to Gerhman on previous hunts and now live mundane lives. It may be that "forgetting the dream" is not literally forgetting everything but losing access to it.

edit:beaten

It has been bothering me for a while now, but why do we refer to all of the Cthulhu-esque creatures as "Amygdalas?" Considering what the one who sends you to the Lecture building / Nightmare Frontier says, I was under the impression that Amygdala is the name of the particular individual in NF, not the name of the creature type.

Even Patches referring to it as "Lord Amygdala" hints at it being a name of an individual, not a race or species.



See, to me, this doesn't make any sense. We don't call lower tier vampires "lesser draculas" just because the bigger cheese of a vampire is named Dracula. And what makes them lesser in the first place? The one who lasers you up in Yahar'gul seems to be equal in laser power, at the least, so it doesn't seem like they are weaker or anything. (I admit I haven't done any real size comparison, so that might be the "why" for lesser)

perhaps they are all one. A hive mind named Amygdala.

 

[Flipyap]

None of that has anything to do with a veil lol. So yeah, I'd say it's a stretch. He doesn't attack you because he's vacuous, he doesn't do anything at all (including making a "veil").

You know, like the notes and descriptions suggest.

He doesn't do anything at all, except for hiding "all manner of rituals" from others, which is exactly what drawing a veil over something means. You could call it a reality distortion field, but calling it a veil is more appropriate. It's a simple metaphor, "lol".

 

[Kurtofan]

DkS2 guide also had contributions by ENB/AGS and it was a great guide for lore and names. pretty comprehensive stuff overall. I'm pretty excited to read up some stuff in the BB guide.

It's the one by Future Press, right? With the rune on the cover?

 

[The Xtortionist]

It's the one by Future Press, right? With the rune on the cover?

Yep. Should be out on Tuesday.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

Oh shit, I just noticed the Blood Dregs you get are literally blood sperms 0_o

This game man...

 

[Yurt]

Oh shit, I just noticed the Blood Dregs you get are literally blood sperms 0_o

This game man...

say what now? I've fucking consumed one of them

I guess that makes me a SWALLOWER?

Rom was an academy figure at Byrgenwerth. I think the baby spiders are his/her transformed students.

A professor would definitely let their students protect them

that's easily the coolest explanation and I'm NOT ready to accept any other alternative take on it

NOPE, I won't hear it, I'm done with Rom, NEXT PAGE PLS

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

say what now? I've fucking consumed one of them

I guess that makes me a SWALLOWER?

Look at the item picture- it's LITERALLY swimming sperms!

And they give it to the Queen, "...so that she may one day bear the Child of Blood, the next Vileblood heir."

 

[The Xtortionist]

Look at the item picture- it's LITERALLY swimming sperms!

And they give it to the Queen, "...so that she may one day bear the Child of Blood, the next Vileblood heir."

Between this and shit like the piggies squealing while the hunter gives them the prostate exam of their lives, I have to wonder just what the fuck is wrong with Miyazaki and pals.

Spoiler

Never change, Miyazaki and pals

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

Between this and shit like the piggies squealing while the hunter gives them the prostate exam of their lives, I have to wonder just what the fuck is wrong with Miyazaki and pals.

Spoiler

Never change, Miyazaki and pals

Red Jelly man....

This is a souls game, that's secretly a Lovecraft game, that's secretly an abortion game @_@

 

[AllenShrz]

Red Jelly man....

This is a souls game, that's secretly a Lovecraft game, that's secretly an abortion game @_@

But is not...

A new world reborn.

BTW, what do they mean by "fear the old blood"?

 

[Monochromaticx]

But is not...

A new world reborn.

BTW, what do they mean by "fear the old blood"?

blood of the old ones that was found in dungeons i think.

 

[Gattsu25]

Look at the item picture- it's LITERALLY swimming sperms!

And they give it to the Queen, "...so that she may one day bear the Child of Blood, the next Vileblood heir."

Here's an image of the item:

"The Vilebloods of Cainhurst, blood-lusting hunters, see these frightful things in coldblood.


They often appear in the blood of echo fiends, that is to say, the blood of hunters. Queen Annalise partakes in these blood dregs offerings, so that she may one day bear the Child of Blood, the next Vileblood heir."

 

[Roussow]

Haven't read much of the thread -- so if this has been discussed, ignore me.

I was recently in a Isz Chalice and came across about 10 or so of the blue alien looking enemies, just the basic melee ones, no arcane abusing types. A good 7 of them dropped Quick Silver bullets.

Is it to be believed that these bullets might be cosmic in origin? Given these enemies drop them without having any firearms or arcane ability.

Are firearms a big thing in this world due to these cosmic items falling into human hands? Are they intended to power arcane artifacts as there sole purpose.

The reasons guns exist in this world are because some humans got hold of this cosmic anomaly and used them to reverse engineer firearms?

 

[Gbraga]

Oh shit, I just noticed the Blood Dregs you get are literally blood sperms 0_o

This game man...

...oh

 

[Mandelbo]

Do we know why, after killing Rom, the blood moon is only visible inside of Yharnam and Yahar'gul? Areas like Hemwick, the Forbidden Woods and Cainhurst all have the regular moon and sky from before Rom still.

 

[Steel]

A female would have her kids protect her? That's backwards, I think.

Can we even speculate that the creature is of a gender? It's an interesting question, but not sure how much it matters overall.

The creature was originally human, so yes we can speculate at its gender. I'm kinda conflicted on that subject myself, though. Rom is a very masculine name, however it would make sense if Rom was a girl consiidering most of the prominent formerly human figures in the game are female. BSB is normally referred to as she, and VA is definitely a she, then you have Ebrietris who was the first great one to speak with the church and it seems like the church favors females, I mean Adella's blood outright says that they use nuns of high potential to distribute healing blood so there seems to be higher utility for women in the healing church then men. Why wouldn't it be the same in Byrgenwyrth?

Speaking of Ebrietris, now that I think about it, why does she even try to communicate with humans? It's not like she can have a human woman have her child(if gender even really applies to great ones, though it is implied to) so what's her goal?

None of that has anything to do with a veil lol. So yeah, I'd say it's a stretch. He doesn't attack you because he's vacuous, he doesn't do anything at all (including making a "veil").

You know, like the notes and descriptions suggest.

The notes and descriptions are from the perspective of people who never worked with Rom, people outside Byrgenwyrth. They hardly imply anything about Rom's actual character other than the fact that s/he keeps information from them. In fact, they imply the opposite of Rom being a complete do-nothing as s/he actively keeps their master and information(insight? Or a reference to the veil?) from them. And who is the master? It's easy to assume it's Willem, but it could easily be the Moon Presence considering the Moon Presence is more or less the Master of the hunters and has an entire town of worshipers in Yar'har'gul. Not to mention that the note where the master is mentioned refers to Byrgenwyrth as an entity separate from them, when Willem was the head of Byrgenwyrth, and the majority of the students seems to be in Byrgenwyrth as spiders or something else and the Lecture Hall as blobs already, so I actually find myself doubting that they're referring to Willem at all.

And all that, and the details in my previous post, do point toward the existence of a veil of some sort that is being maintained by Rom. I'm not saying it's certainly the case, but there's definitely enough information there to say it's not "completely fabricated".

 

[indigo-cyclops]

The creature was originally human, so yes we can speculate at its gender. I'm kinda conflicted on that subject myself, though. Rom is a very masculine name, however it would make sense if Rom was a girl consiidering most of the prominent formerly human figures in the game are female. BSB is normally referred to as she, and VA is definitely a she, then you have Ebrietris who was the first great one to speak with the church and it seems like the church favors females, I mean Adella's blood outright says that they use nuns of high potential to distribute healing blood so there seems to be higher utility for women in the healing church then men. Why wouldn't it be the same in Byrgenwyrth?

Speaking of Ebrietris, now that I think about it, why does she even try to communicate with humans? It's not like she can have a human woman have her child(if gender even really applies to great ones, though it is implied to) so what's her goal?



The notes and descriptions are from the perspective of people who never worked with Rom, people outside Byrgenwyrth. They hardly imply anything about Rom's actual character other than the fact that s/he keeps information from them. In fact, they imply the opposite of Rom being a complete do-nothing as s/he actively keeps their master and information(insight? Or a reference to the veil?) from them. And who is the master? It's easy to assume it's Willem, but it could easily be the Moon Presence considering the Moon Presence is more or less the Master of the hunters and has an entire town of worshipers in Yar'har'gul. Not to mention that the note where the master is mentioned refers to Byrgenwyrth as an entity separate from them, when Willem was the head of Byrgenwyrth, and the majority of the students seems to be in Byrgenwyrth as spiders or something else and the Lecture Hall as blobs already, so I actually find myself doubting that they're referring to Willem at all.

And all that, and the details in my previous post, do point toward the existence of a veil of some sort that is being maintained by Rom. I'm not saying it's certainly the case, but there's definitely enough information there to say it's not "completely fabricated".

After I posted, then watched ENB's latest, he does in fact say with certainty that Rom was a female. Interesting.

 

[theSlacker]

Haven't read much of the thread -- so if this has been discussed, ignore me.

I was recently in a Isz Chalice and came across about 10 or so of the blue alien looking enemies, just the basic melee ones, no arcane abusing types. A good 7 of them dropped Quick Silver bullets.

Is it to be believed that these bullets might be cosmic in origin? Given these enemies drop them without having any firearms or arcane ability.

Are firearms a big thing in this world due to these cosmic items falling into human hands? Are they intended to power arcane artifacts as there sole purpose.

The reasons guns exist in this world are because some humans got hold of this cosmic anomaly and used them to reverse engineer firearms?

The singing brains also drop them even though they don't have any kind of shooting attack. Just something I noticed and tried to make some sense of.