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[Alebrije]

Or it might just be that she is a doll created to serve your desires.

That's a very important idea around the Doll; she has no emotions or identity because everything she does is to serve you and make you happy. When you give her the hairpin, it's the first time someone actually gave something to her and treated her as something more than a toy or a tool, which is why she starts feeling real emotions.

Anything can be possible on Miyazaki's games, like the lore he creates on Souls games but sometimes wish he delivered a Lore without so much open gates to speculation , I know its his style but saddly you know in his next games you will end with tons of doubts.

I think the Doll is more that a mere tool because it bleeds, never dies and give you power , she is a great one or at least a great one's creation that helps you gain power. Also why a great one should show feelings toward an human being.

 

[Gbraga]

Anything can be possible on Miyazaki's games, like the lore he creates on Souls games but sometimes wish he delivered a Lore without so much open gates to speculation , I know its his style but saddly you know in his next games you will end with tons of doubts.

I think the Doll is more that a mere tool because it bleeds, never dies and give you power , she is a great one or at least a great one's creation that helps you gain power. Also why a great one should show feelings toward an human being.

The doll being a tool commanded by the Moon Presence seems far more likely than being a Great One herself, imo.

I'm not entirely convinced on her being controlled by the Great Ones either, to be honest, but it's a lot more convincing to me.

 

[LiK]

It's pretty interesting that attacking Gherman makes him disappear but the Doll just drops down to the ground.

 

[Edzi]

She being a tool commanded by the Moon Presence seems far more likely than being a Great One herself, imo.

I'm not entirely convinced on her being controlled by the Great Ones either, to be honest, but it's a lot more convincing to me.

Maybe she could loosely be called a Great One if she was given life by the MP. Then again, she says she was created by humans.

"Coldblood of inhuman kin of the cosmos,
brethren of the Great Ones.

Use to gain unspeakable Blood Echoes.

Dare not to delve int the world beyond humanity,
the eldritch Truth touched upon long ago at Byrgenwerth."

So the more I think on it, the more it seems to me like maybe kin really is just a term for all things related to and including Great Ones. The fact that the game uses the term to describe an entire enemy type seems to really suggest that.

Is there anything in the games that claims that "Great Ones" is the term used to describe all of the cosmic god creatures? Because I was thinking that, based on the kin coldblood description, what if those that the game refers to as Great Ones are specifically those 'inhuman kin of the cosmos' which came down to mess with humanity?

 

[Artex]

This thread only makes me more confused. Someone needs to clear this shit up.

 

[Mermandala]

The doll "raises" the PC on blood (echoes) literally and embraces the squiggly-squiddy whatsit like a mother in the 3rd ending, a mother to an infant Great One asking if you're cold, because because don't worry doll-mommy will get you some warm blood if you are you widdle spaceslug snookums.

 

[Toxi]

It's pretty interesting that attacking Gherman makes him disappear but the Doll just drops down to the ground.

My personal theory is that any instance of Gehrman outside the flower field is an illusion.

 

[Edzi]

The doll "raises" the PC on blood (echoes) literally and embraces the squiggly-squiddy whatsit like a mother in the 3rd ending, a mother to an infant Great One asking if you're cold, because because don't worry doll-mommy will get you some warm blood if you are you widdle spaceslug snookums.

I seriously think implying that the Doll is the ultimate mastermind Great One that successfully has a child right under the MP's nose is reeeeaaalllyyy stretching it.

It's pretty interesting that attacking Gherman makes him disappear but the Doll just drops down to the ground.

Well, Gerhman is a dude trapped in the dream similar to you. The fact that you can disappear/teleport in and out of the dream could be similar to what happens to him when he disappears after taking damage. He (or the MP) could just be warping him away for a while.

 

[Mermandala]

I seriously think implying that the Doll is the ultimate mastermind Great One that successfully has a child right under the MP's nose is reeeeaaalllyyy stretching it.

The doll serving as a housing of something more inscrutable of course.

 

[YeSp]

Is there anything in the games that claims that "Great Ones" is the term used to describe all of the cosmic god creatures? Because I was thinking that, based on the kin coldblood description, what if those that the game refers to as Great Ones are specifically those 'inhuman kin of the cosmos' which came down to mess with humanity?

As this story is very much influenced on concepts from Lovecraftian mythos... I highly doubt that the Great Ones / ascended kin are the true powers. Its like the Great old ones versus the outer gods. The first group has a physical form (Cthulhu) but the second group are aspects of reality or the cosmos itself (Azatoth) with their herald Nyarlatothep (the moon presence looks a lot like Nyarlatothep IMO ). To us humans both would be considerd gods but there is a difference

Translate that to Bloodborne where you have beings like Amygdala, Ebrietas, Moon Presence versus Oedon, Kosm, Mergo and perhaps the doll (vessel or avatar?) who have no real physical presence in the game.

 

[OniBarubary]

I think my issue with there being different levels of Great Ones and such is that I don't think Great Ones are created by any other means than something human. I mean, the whole point of them needing surrogates is because they can't make babies on their own (through them dying shortly after) so it appears that the only way you can actually make a Great One is to use a human to birth one. Therefore all the Great Ones should, by some form or another, have been birthed by a human. I think the only 2 that weren't birthed were Rom and the Celestial Emissary and I do in fact that regardless of their definition as Kin they are LEGIT Great Ones despite the means that got them there and the effect it had on their minds. Rom being made into one by human knowledge instead of birthed and being "vacuous" doesn't take away that it is, in fact, a Great One.

And if some of the Great Ones such as Oedon or Ebrietas or Moon Presence weren't birthed by humans in some long-ass long ago before-time then...well, then they must have always been or been created because they couldn't have had a mama Great One themselves due to the rules regarding it.

 

[Kieli]

21st century modern military technology vs. Great Ones.

Take that L, great nes.

 

[Mermandala]

People don't usually list the PC as a Great One but it falls under the same trophy description rule and it's the one we have the most insight into on it's birthing process. We were there, we played through it! Figuring who or what it's "parents" are is troubling though nevermind untangling the actual birthing process. Bloodborne?

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

I think my issue with there being different levels of Great Ones and such is that I don't think Great Ones are created by any other means than something human. I mean, the whole point of them needing surrogates is because they can't make babies on their own (through them dying shortly after) so it appears that the only way you can actually make a Great One is to use a human to birth one. Therefore all the Great Ones should, by some form or another, have been birthed by a human. I think the only 2 that weren't birthed were Rom and the Celestial Emissary and I do in fact that regardless of their definition as Kin they are LEGIT Great Ones despite the means that got them there and the effect it had on their minds. Rom being made into one by human knowledge instead of birthed and being "vacuous" doesn't take away that it is, in fact, a Great One.

And if some of the Great Ones such as Oedon or Ebrietas or Moon Presence weren't birthed by humans in some long-ass long ago before-time then...well, then they must have always been or been created because they couldn't have had a mama Great One themselves due to the rules regarding it.

I would hate to think that the existence of all Great Ones depends on humanity to some degree. It takes away from the Lovecraftian concept of humanity's relative meaninglessness in the grand scope of the universe which is a concept I love.

 

[Edzi]

People don't usually list the PC as a Great One but it falls under the same trophy description rule and it's the one we have the most insight into on it's birthing process. We were there, we played through it! Figuring who or what it's "parents" are is troubling though nevermind untangling the actual birthing process. Bloodborne?

Nah, I think the PC's ascension is much more akin to Rom's. Consuming all of the cords was what set your ascension/transformation in motion.

I would hate to think that the existence of all Great Ones depends on humanity to some degree. It takes away from the Lovecraftian concept of humanity's relative meaninglessness in the grand scope of the universe which is a concept I love.

I agree, and I don't think the game really stresses that its humans that are needed as the surrogates. It just happens to be what they're currently using.

 

[Mermandala]

Nah, I think the PC's ascension is much more akin to Rom's. Ingesting all of the cords was what set your ascension/transformation in motion.

Did Rom eat a bunch of cords? Kill a gang of Great Ones? We don't really know how Rom ascended but I'd think the path was quite different from the PC. Rom was kind of in a dead-end down there in the lake whereas PC is Childhood's Beginning. I'd say the PC is probably as "true" of a great one as any other.

 

[OniBarubary]

I would hate to think that the existence of all Great Ones depends on humanity to some degree. It takes away from the Lovecraftian concept of humanity's relative meaninglessness in the grand scope of the universe which is a concept I love.

I agree, and I don't think the game really stresses that its humans that are needed as the surrogates. It just happens to be what they're currently using.

I only said it depends on humans because, like you said, that's what they're using. Maybe they can use other stuff that gives birth like dogs or lizards or something but for whatever reason they're using people so people must be the best way to do it.

The surrogate line is really goddam important and if it says that Great One babies die and human babies don't then there's little wiggle room for whether or not Great Ones can make new Great Ones on there own.

THEN AGAIN they may be able to make Great Ones unrelated to themselves or "birth" (a la Rom, but made by a Great One) but if they can I don't see why they'd use surrogates.

Also Rom's ascension probably involved the gooey students.

 

[Gbraga]

Since R/K is the key concept for Miyazaki, it could be that the amount of babbys a Great One can successfuly have isn't 0, but 1 throughout its entire long life, so they still seek surrogates for the other, but the description makes it seem like they lose even their first child with "Every Great One loses its child, and then yearn for a surrogate", so I don't know.

It could work if the Great One's child wasn't quite on the same rank as an old Great One, and then naturally the parent outlive their child, and then yearn for a surrogate (could even somehow fit Rom looking kinda like the dead spider?), it would also explain what makes the Great One we become different from Rom and everything else, makes it special, because it's a real babby Great One, not the horrible crossbreed thing that Arianna gives birth to, we unlocked the secret to a new Great One that's "on their same level".

It would kinda fit, but there's just not enough evidence for any of this, I'm just pulling stuff out of my ass, and I hate those kinds of theories.

If I can't explain it using item descriptions and/or environmental clues, I'm not giving that theory any credit. I like theories that make me think "wow, how didn't I think of this! Miyazaki, you genius devil!", not "what the fuck this makes no sense at all".

When I'm reading good speculation, I can even remember the exact item descriptions that would fit the theory, so I'm inclined to believe that a lot of stuff, especially Great One related, is just intentionally open-ended due to the nature of Cosmic Horror, and left to the player to speculate, but never really know for sure.

We can put together a sound explanation for the main story, but the origin of the Great Ones, their motives etc, we'll never really comprehend, because we couldn't possibly comprehend such a superior life form.

 

[OniBarubary]

That's why it's fun to talk about!

Look forward to my Bloodborne fanfic coming next month: Oedon Kosms Into Rom's Vacuous One!

 

[sirap]

What if the OG Great Ones are simply aliens that need to reproduce with other species? That's why they come in different shapes. Ok, this is a stupid theory, and the PC (a human) becoming a slug like creature as a great one makes no sense.

 

[Skii]

Thanks!

Yeah, I fugred. Whatever they were trying to do, it didn't really seem to work out that well, haha.

This is also a boss I'm fuzzy on the lore, I'm still kinda clinging to the idea that it's supposed to be a physical body for Mergo/Oedon to be reborn in, but there's not really enough evidence aside from being in Yahar'gul and the boss' name.

Yeah, I want more lore on The One Reborn. It has such an epic name that implies it is a significant character but we never really find out any information on it.

 

[Gbraga]

That's why it's fun to talk about!

Look forward to my Bloodborne fanfic coming next month: Oedon Kosms Into Rom's Vacuous One!

It's fun to talk about and wonder about the endless possibilities of something we'll never know for sure, but we have to accept we'll never know for sure (unless they clarify some things through DLC or interviews down the line, of course), when people start coming up with crazy bullshit and treating it as fact, then it gets more annoying than fun.

 

[OniBarubary]

It's fun to talk about and wonder about the endless possibilities of something we'll never know for sure, but we have to accept we'll never know for sure (unless they clarify some things through DLC or interviews down the line, of course), when people start coming up with crazy bullshit and treating it as fact, then it gets more annoying than fun.

Yeah but luckily none of us are doing that.

...I think.

 

[Edzi]

It's fun to talk about and wonder about the endless possibilities of something we'll never know for sure, but we have to accept we'll never know for sure (unless they clarify some things through DLC or interviews down the line, of course),

It's true that we can never know for sure, but my goal is just to come up with something consistent. Once I find a way to tie the main pieces of the game together, I'll be happy. I think I've made some progress with the last couple of rambling posts I've made over the last couple pages, but I'm kinda hoping someone dismantles my points so I can rethink it again if necessary. That's half the fun of lore discussions though.

when people start coming up with crazy bullshit and treating it as fact, then it gets more annoying than fun.

Hopefully my posts aren't guilty of this.

 

[Gbraga]

Yeah but luckily none of us are doing that.

...I think.

It's true that we can never know for sure, but my goal is just to come up with something consistent. Once I find a way to tie the main pieces of the game together, I'll be happy. I think I've made some progress with the last couple of rambling posts I've made over the last couple pages, but I'm kinda hoping someone dismantles my points so I can rethink it again if necessary.



Hopefully my posts aren't guilty of this.

Oh yeah, GAF's great for lore discussion. Just venting.

 

[Kamina]

I seriously think implying that the Doll is the ultimate mastermind Great One that successfully has a child right under the MP's nose is reeeeaaalllyyy stretching it.

But she has paleblood.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Does the trophy even call The One Reborn a Great One?

The Brain of Mensis is a legit Great One, the Living String says: "The immense brain that Mensis retrieved from the nightmare was indeed lined with eyes on the inside, but they were of an evil sort, and the brain itself was terrible rotten. But even still, it was a legitimate Great One(...)"

I think it's pretty much obvious that The One Reborn is an attempt by the Mensis folks to create/give birth to a Great One that has gone awry.

 

[Toxi]

But she has paleblood.

Lot of ways to interpret her white blood. It certainly is unusual, but it could mean many things, like maybe she was given life by the Moon Presence (which IIRC was confirmed to be Paleblood by the Miyazaki interview).

 

[Auctopus]

It's fun to talk about and wonder about the endless possibilities of something we'll never know for sure, but we have to accept we'll never know for sure (unless they clarify some things through DLC or interviews down the line, of course), when people start coming up with crazy bullshit and treating it as fact, then it gets more annoying than fun.

Totally agree. When the latecomers came to Dark Souls around 2013ish, there was strange new aura around the lore where people seemed to think it was a 'Choose-Your-Own-Adventure', I think this way of thinking was propelled by Vaati too.

It frustrated me as FROM delicately revealed lore/story throughout the game to tell a tragic, interweaving story surrounding very memorable characters. Whilst Bloodborne's NPCs and characters aren't quite as memorable and the story is left a little more open, this doesn't mean whatever you can come up with poetically rambling is true. Theories should always come down to hard facts in the game I.e. Item descriptions or at the very least NPC/boss location. Not...

"So, Rom and Master Willem must have been talking when Laurence overheard them and got jealous..." Etc.

 

[Gbraga]

"So, Rom and Master Willem must have been talking when Laurence overheard them and got jealous..." Etc.

Please tell me this is just a crazy example.

 

[Auctopus]

Please tell me this is just a crazy example.

It's a slightly exaggerated example... but only slightly. I've seen plenty of theories where people will bring in characters emotions.

 

[nded]

• During the final battle, Gehrman switches clothes from his normal attire to the Charred Set and the Top Hat. However, the description for Gehrman's clothing says it was his hunter attire, so switching it out when he joins the hunt makes little sense.
  
• Not only does Gehrman change clothes in the final battle, his peg leg magically is whole with no explanation. Did it really grow back, or was the missing leg simply an illusion?

Gehrman doesn't actually switch out of his attire for the boss fight. A Charred Hunter cape, what looks like Henryk's right glove and a unique metal gauntlet are just added over his usual clothes. Peg leg stays as well.

Interestingly, Gehrman's firearm seems to be unique and looks like a primitive version of the blunderbuss. Basically a small cannon tied to a stick.

 

[PolishQ]

The One Reborn seems to have a connection with all of the people who died in Yahar'gul, whose petrified corpses you see clinging to the buildings. Like, they were killed so that a Great One, potentially the Moon Presence, could be summoned into their combined undead body mass.

The One Reborn also shares some design similarities with the Wandering Nightmares (i.e. Bloodborne's "crystal lizards"). Not sure what to make of that.

Also, it should be noted that the One Reborn drops a Yellow Backbone, a "gruesome bait" used to beckon "ungodly forces".

 

[Gbraga]

The One Reborn seems to have a connection with all of the people who died in Yahar'gul, whose petrified corpses you see clinging to the buildings. Like, they were killed so that a Great One, potentially the Moon Presence, could be summoned into their combined undead body mass.

The One Reborn also shares some design similarities with the Wandering Nightmares (i.e. Bloodborne's "crystal lizards"). Not sure what to make of that.

Also, it should be noted that the One Reborn drops a Yellow Backbone, a "gruesome bait" used to beckon "ungodly forces".

The moon presence is definitely important enough to be "The One", but the "Reborn" part makes me think of either Oedon (only because there's a Tomb of Oedon) or Mergo.

Giving Mergo a body in the waking world so he can exist ouside the nightmare makes sense to me. Oedon doesn't fit with the current rituals the School of Mensis are partaking in, but they are part of the Healing Church, after all, and they venerate Oedon.

 

[PolishQ]

The moon presence is definitely important enough to be "The One", but the "Reborn" part makes me think of either Oedon (only because there's a Tomb of Oedon) or Mergo.

Giving Mergo a body in the waking world so he can exist ouside the nightmare makes sense to me. Oedon doesn't fit with the current rituals the School of Mensis are partaking in, but they are part of the Healing Church, after all, and they venerate Oedon.

Do we know the School of Mensis is involved with the One Reborn, though? Their kidnappers are all killed once the blood moon comes out, presumably by the newly risen undead. The bell ringers are the ones who actually summon the One, and aren't they Pthumerians? Come to think of it, the One Reborn could be composed of Pthumerian corpses, especially since the "main" corpse is much larger than a human.

 

[Kipper]

It could work if the Great One's child wasn't quite on the same rank as an old Great One, and then naturally the parent outlive their child, and then yearn for a surrogate (could even somehow fit Rom looking kinda like the dead spider?), it would also explain what makes the Great One we become different from Rom and everything else, makes it special, because it's a real babby Great One, not the horrible crossbreed thing that Arianna gives birth to, we unlocked the secret to a new Great One that's "on their same level".

Now this is interesting. The whole "every Great One loses it's child and yearns for a surrogate," thing is my number 1 hang up, because the phrasing is so vague. I always thought it meant stillbirth, but it definitely could be that the existing Great Ones live forever, but their children do not. Thus, they watch as their children grow old and die, and they "lose" them.

I have no idea if this is really true, but it's the first new theory I've heard in a bit that made me think "hmm yeah that might be it!"

Edit: Although I don't know how the surrogate thing would fit into this...

 

[OniBarubary]

The One Reborn is SUCH a specific name with no real...lore attached to it. All we know is it's in front of Micolash and the majority of Mensis and is summoned by Bellringers who...aren't part of the Church. So I wonder why they do it.

There's a lot about that fight that just doesn't add up with information we don't have.

 

[Toxi]

Gehrman doesn't actually switch out of his attire for the boss fight. A Charred Hunter cape, what looks like Henryk's right glove and a unique metal gauntlet are just added over his usual clothes. Peg leg stays as well.

Interestingly, Gehrman's firearm seems to be unique and looks like a primitive version of the blunderbuss. Basically a small cannon tied to a stick.

His hat definitely changes. Didn't realize the cape was just put over his normal clothes.

 

[Edzi]

The One Reborn is SUCH a specific name with no real...lore attached to it. All we know is it's in front of Micolash and the majority of Mensis and is summoned by Bellringers who...aren't part of the Church. So I wonder why they do it.

There's a lot about that fight that just doesn't add up with information we don't have.

It seems to be summoned from the paleblood moon though, so that could be something we can use to tie it to the MP maybe?

The One Reborn seems to have a connection with all of the people who died in Yahar'gul, whose petrified corpses you see clinging to the buildings. Like, they were killed so that a Great One, potentially the Moon Presence, could be summoned into their combined undead body mass.

The One Reborn also shares some design similarities with the Wandering Nightmares (i.e. Bloodborne's "crystal lizards"). Not sure what to make of that.

Also, it should be noted that the One Reborn drops a Yellow Backbone, a "gruesome bait" used to beckon "ungodly forces".

I like this and I was thinking something similar when looking up what item it dropped. The Yellow Backbone makes some sense too in tying it to a (failed?) attempt at summoning Old Ones/MP.

 

[PolishQ]

Here's something interesting from the guide. On page 467, there's what appears to be an earlier version of the description for the Third Cord you retrieve from the Old Workshop.

"One of the heirlooms used to contact the Great Ones, originating in the child of the Vilebloods. Long ago, in an encounter with the Great Ones, a contract was established, establishing the hunters and the Hunter's Dream."

I don't know if we can consider this canon, since From apparently revised it (in the day one patch?), but I found the bolded very intriguing.

Also, I'm convinced that "One Third Of Umbilical Cord" is a translation error, and they should instead be called "Third Umbilical Cord". Neither the image nor the description imply that each Cord is merely a piece of the full cord. It's also a more intriguing name - obviously the First Umbilical Cord is the normal human one, but what's the Second Cord?

Finally, in Miyazaki's interview in the guide, he says the following:

"The Great Ones have all lost their children because of their positions..."

That got me thinking that the whole "Every Great One loses their child" thing is really just another way of saying that each Great One gave up the ability to have children when they ascended - or, they gave up any children that they had before their ascension. In other words, each Great One started out as something that was not a Great One, and once you're a Great One you can't have children.

 

[Gbraga]

Do we know the School of Mensis is involved with the One Reborn, though? Their kidnappers are all killed once the blood moon comes out, presumably by the newly risen undead. The bell ringers are the ones who actually summon the One, and aren't they Pthumerians? Come to think of it, the One Reborn could be composed of Pthumerian corpses, especially since the "main" corpse is much larger than a human.

You got me there, we have no evidence that it's indeed the School of Mensis. I just assumed so because it's in Yahar'gul (I love this name so much).

Now this is interesting. The whole "every Great One loses it's child and yearns for a surrogate," thing is my number 1 hang up, because the phrasing is so vague. I always thought it meant stillbirth, but it definitely could be that the existing Great Ones live forever, but their children do not. Thus, they watch as their children grow old and die, and they "lose" them.

I have no idea if this is really true, but it's the first new theory I've heard in a bit that made me think "hmm yeah that might be it!"

Edit: Although I don't know how the surrogate thing would fit into this...

A surrogate child for the one they lost.

It's not a super strong theory, though, I'm not too invested in it.

Here's something interesting from the guide. On page 467, there's what appears to be an earlier version of the description for the Third Cord you retrieve from the Old Workshop.

"One of the heirlooms used to contact the Great Ones, originating in the child of the Vilebloods. Long ago, in an encounter with the Great Ones, a contract was established, establishing the hunters and the Hunter's Dream."

I don't know if we can consider this canon, since From apparently revised it (in the day one patch?), but I found the bolded very intriguing.

Also, I'm convinced that "One Third Of Umbilical Cord" is a translation error, and they should instead be called "Third Umbilical Cord". Neither the image nor the description imply that each Cord is merely a piece of the full cord. It's also a more intriguing name - obviously the First Umbilical Cord is the normal human one, but what's the Second Cord?

Finally, in Miyazaki's interview in the guide, he says the following:

"The Great Ones have all lost their children because of their positions..."

That got me thinking that the whole "Every Great One loses their child" thing is really just another way of saying that each Great One gave up the ability to have children when they ascended - or, they gave up any children that they had before their ascension. In other words, each Great One started out as something that was not a Great One, and once you're a Great One you can't have children.

I guess it fits. Great Ones can't reproduce naturally, so they seek sentient beings (maybe not even necessarily sentient) throughout the universe so they can make a new one. The process is probably not the same for every species, so that explains why it's taking them so long to be successful with humans.

Though I guess that's kind of a flaw of Cosmic Horror in general, one of the main points is how irrelevant we are in the grand scheme of things, but the eldritch beings sure spend one hell of a lot of time in communion with us specifically.

About the old description, the Vileblood part is very very interesting, but since I have absolutely nothing to contribute as to what it could be implying, I'll also call attention to "Long ago, in an encounter with the Great Ones, a contract was established, establishing the hunters and the Hunter's Dream", that's very very interesting, makes it seem mutual (though it could be just a "contract", as in the nameless moon presence forcing people to do its thing, and the word just being used loosely), but more importantly, reminds me of the contract you sign in the beginning of the game. We have no idea who we are or where we came from before the game, but we do sign a contract and then we're part of the Dream.

 

[Hawkie]

In the cutscene after the "true" ending that's the player that the doll's holding, reborn, as a Great One, isn't it?

 

[Edzi]

In the cutscene after the "true" ending that's the player that the doll's holding, reborn, as a Great One, isn't it?

Yup.

 

[PolishQ]

I guess it fits. Great Ones can't reproduce naturally, so they seek sentient beings (maybe not even necessarily sentient) throughout the universe so they can make a new one. The process is probably not the same for every species, so that explains why it's taking them so long to be successful with humans.

I don't think the "yearning for a surrogate" has anything to do with making a new Great One. Rather, because they can't reproduce, each Great One seeks something else that they can care after as they would a child. The very definition of "surrogate" is that it is a replacement.

My pet theory is that the nightmare is one such surrogate, being cared for by Mergo's Wet Nurse (which in turn would make the Hunter's Dream the surrogate child of the Moon Presence).

 

[Drencrom]

Here's video of that weird creature from the chalice dungeons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnxcwaWz50o

A German Spy (guy who worked on the guide) gave us some info on this creature, it's called a Hole Digger! FuturePress is apparently gonna make a blog for more info etc on stuff like this.

 

[ElFly]

The One Reborn seems to have a connection with all of the people who died in Yahar'gul, whose petrified corpses you see clinging to the buildings. Like, they were killed so that a Great One, potentially the Moon Presence, could be summoned into their combined undead body mass.

It'd make more sense that the One Reborn was an attempt to give a body to Mergo than the MP.

 

[Cheat Code]

Yharnam was a trivial fight but I think the lore behind her begs to be explored, especially with her first appearing during the start of the blood moon and the story of Mergo.

Unless it has been explored and I'm an asshole.

 

[Cyborg]

Is Ludwig the Claric Beast?

 

[Gbraga]

Now that I think about it again, it sounds kinda obvious, so forgive me if I'm preaching to the Choir here (

), but the same way that Micolash and the School of Mensis can be used to make connections to Gehrman and the Hunter's Dream, and how the internal logic of the nightmare works, as well as giving me reason to believe Rom isn't mindless, I feel like they can also be used to show the in-lore difference between Rom and ourselves in the cord ending.

The cord we get after we defeat the Wet Nurse says:

"A great relic, also known as the Cord of the Eye. Every infant Great One has this precursor to the umbilical cord (*).

Every Great One loses its child, and then yearns for a surrogate. This Cord granted Mensis audience with Mergo, but resulted in the stillbirth of their brains.

Use to gain Insight and, so they say, eyes on the inside, although no one remembers what that truly entails."

One single cord granted the School of Mensis audience with Mergo through the nightmare. And we see Micolash praying to Kos (or some say Kosm), asking him/her (sounds like her to me, but Rom sounded like him, so who knows) to grant him eyes, "as you once did for the vacuous Rom". One cord can allow you to be in communion with Kosm, and can grant you eyes on the insine ("plant eyes on our brains to cleanse our beastly idiocy"), allowing one to evolve. Rom could be a result of one cord being used to partake in communion with Kos, while the infant Great One we become is a result of the Paleblood ritual, using three cords.

Again, now that I think about it, this sounds fairly obvious, but I felt like, even though I knew this before, I didn't really have any in-game evidence to back it other than "well, it has to be, doesn't make sense that the secret ending is just reproducing what happened to Rom".

* I'd also like to call attention to the "this precursor to the umbilical cord" part, for the "well, what is the second cord, then?"

The Third Eye is what people call the inner eye (or your eye on the inside, if you will). If you, for whatever reason, only have one eye, you won't call it "The Second Eye", it's still The Third Eye, it's the name this concept was given, and I feel like what's happening here is similar, maybe even direct reference to that.

The fact that it's a precursor to the umbilical cord (which is also fairly obvious, everyone must've assumed the existence of the great eldritch beings far precedes our own) is also evidence that it's not a "voice of god name". If it came before our regular umbilical cord, then it can't be the third cord in a "ranking system", if anything, it should be the first cord (or second, if they're leaving even more advanced beings for a possible sequel), and our cord would be the third.

So, in other words, you shouldn't question the game logic about "so what is the second cord", but Byrgenwerth. The Great Ones don't call it The Third Umbilical Cord, we humans do. Their existance far precedes our own, and our classification systems.

It's The Third Cord because it's called The Third Cord, not because it comes after the second.

Yharnam was a trivial fight but I think the lore behind her begs to be explored, especially with her first appearing during the start of the blood moon and the story of Mergo.

Unless it has been explored and I'm an asshole.

Agreed, there's just not a lot of info on her in-game :C

Or at least I wasn't able to perceive a lot, I'll admit I wasn't able to gather too much on my chalice playthroughs. The fact that I was bored as hell probably didn't help.

Is Ludwig the Claric Beast?

No way in hell. Unless From confirms it later through an interview or something, then I'll look like a moron.

 

[Artex]

Anyone notice at times the moon appears in front of the clouds?

The cosmic eye watcher badge says this too:

“Badge of a member of the Choir, elites of the Healing Church. The eye signifies the very cosmos. The Choir stumbled upon an epiphany, very suddenly and quite by accident. Here we stand, feet planted in the earth. but might the cosmos be very near us, only just above our heads?”

Is this the "eldrich truth", and WTF does it mean?