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Bowe Berghdahl, POW in Afghanistan, to return to the US
- Thread starter j_k_redtail
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I read that at least six soldiers were killed in missions trying to find this guy. He is going to be haunted for life, not only because of his imprisonment but knowing his desertion had consequences beyond himself.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
As a military man, I'm a bit conflicted. You never, ever want to leave a man behind. I am glad he's back. But he deserted of his own volition and got people killed as a result. I wouldn't wish POW treatment on nearly anybody, but on the other hand, him getting promoted and presumably getting paid is galling. I don't know what to think, but I don't think nothing is an appropriate response.
Wonder if he'll get all that backpay. Not that it matters as I'm sure a book/movie deal is being set up as we speak.
SecretMoblin
Member
for the former/current service members in here, is there any mechanism by which the Dept of Defense can prevent a member of the forces from communicating his or her story?
I assume certain explicit details about troop movements or otherwise typically confidential info is barred, but could the gov't prevent him from going to the media, possibly as one of the conditions of his freedom (inc. lack of prosecution)?
I assume certain explicit details about troop movements or otherwise typically confidential info is barred, but could the gov't prevent him from going to the media, possibly as one of the conditions of his freedom (inc. lack of prosecution)?
You remind me of a former poster who linked everything in Syria with Qatar.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
He was likely getting paid the entire time. One of those things with electronic deposits and all. And since they promoted him in absentia, they had to have kept his records up to date.
But yeah, if he gets rich off of desertion, then I'll know exactly what to think. At the very least, they could do him like they've done murderers in the past and legally prevent him from profiting directly from this. Of course, IANASL, so...
MisterFalcon
Member
That's cowboy talk, this is the age of Smart Diplomacy.
For the average soldier, no. Unless he actually joined the Haqqani network and they want to charge him for treason and he plea bargains out of it, we'll get a statement from him eventually.
sadceph2001
Member
e. scratch that
Hasn't he reverted to Islam? I thought him starting with the words 'Bismillah ir-Rahman ir-Rahim' was a sign of him being a Muslim.
I wonder who was treated better? The soldier with the Taliban or those locked up @ Camp X-Ray.
Expect this to blow up into the next Benghazi for the right. Obama negotiated with terrorists, he got a bad deal (5 for 1), he's put more Americans at risk by releasing five detainees, he broke the law by not notifying Congress of Gitmo releases, all for a guy who may have dishonored himself or worse, is a terrorist sympathizer. And of course, it feeds into the notion that Obama is a closet Muslim sympathizer. I'm really not looking forward to the coming derangement.
Ninja Scooter
Member
We traded 5 top terrorist for this guy? Did Obama hire Isiah Thomas to negotiate?
Mr_Antimatter
Member
You must be new to this whole war thing. Prisoner exchanges are basically expected and fairly common.
From reading that Rolling Stone article, it seems like it. Can't just walk off and leave your unit when you become disillusioned with the Army or what you're doing there. I feel for the sentiments that he was expressing in some of his emails, but deserting your unit isn't the way to go.
Dreams-Visions
Member
I expect there to be some *additional* plans for those 5 beyond simply handing them over and forgetting about them.
Honestly, they're more useful to the US free than holed up in prison.
Manchurian candidates.
shira
Member
How do you release a guy who has murders in the 4 digits. That is craziness.
dripdripsplash
Member
Mackenzie 92
Member
What actual evidence is there of desertion? The emails just stated that he was disillusioned with the military and the war. Like a lot of soldiers. According to radio transcripts he was taken while taking a shit in a latrine.
Is it though?
soundahfekz
Member
I need to go cry right about now
Armoured Priest
Member
Easy, after the CIA has already chipped them as targets for Obama's robot army, they wait a few months after those 5 "escape" from Qatar, and then *boom.*
...and you will never hear about it on the news.
If those 5 guys leave Qatar and/or make a peep, they're dead.
Ahh I would say yes.
LMAO!
Seriously though, does anyone really think these guys would have been released if they posed any threat? Isn't it more likely they were just picked up like many at Guantanamo and the govt. really has nothing to charge them with?
I keep hearing some story about how he was just chilling, playing badminton and sipping green tea with his captors. I don't imagine the reality matches up with that story.
kaiju
Member
Yeah, he deserted. He sent these words in an e-mail to his parents before he took off:
I can understand how he felt, but he did swear an oath and his decision to take off cost the lives of a few good soldiers. I can almost guarantee he has paid dearly for his actions, no doubt the Taliban fucked with his mind completely...he may never recover.
He's eventually going to have to face trial for desertion, but I would be surprised if he has to serve time for that. Going to be a tough road ahead for him.
I can understand how he felt, but he did swear an oath and his decision to take off cost the lives of a few good soldiers. I can almost guarantee he has paid dearly for his actions, no doubt the Taliban fucked with his mind completely...he may never recover.
He's eventually going to have to face trial for desertion, but I would be surprised if he has to serve time for that. Going to be a tough road ahead for him.
Random Painted HIghway
Member
Initially I assumed this was the usual republican attack brigade, but the more I read the more of a boondoggle it appears to be. That word might be too kind when soldiers died allegedly as a direct result of him wandering off.
I doubt it... These aren't some regular Taliban fodder, or they likely would not have been negotiated for in the first place.
I am sure U.S has something in place to ensure they will not be a danger to U.S citizens.
If the right flips out about this (I would be surprised if they don't), I can't really blame them. We broke a long standing policy of not negotiating with terrorists and released mass murders for a deserter? What the hell? The guy's dad converting to Islam just adds fuel to the fire. Is this "pow" even happy to come home to a country he seemed to be pretty displeased by? This whole thing king of reeks of a massively miscalculated fuck up.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Double post, sorry.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
In the spirit of brevity, I'm only going to post a link per point. There are many.
1) Intercepted intelligence stating an American soldier was wandering around speaking the native tongue and looking for the Taliban. http://www.businessinsider.com/amer...-gave-indications-that-he-might-desert-2012-6
2) Firsthand accounts that state there was no patrol that night, in contrast with other misinformation that he was taken on patrol. http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/bowe-bergdahl-deserter-or-hero
3) He asked his squad leader what type of problems would be caused if he brought his rifle and NVGs off the FOB. He was told it could get people killed, so he left them behind. He left with a canteen, compass, camera and water. http://rendezvous.blogs.nytimes.com...-captive-u-s-solider-left-his-post-willingly/
4) He left on guard duty. Log books show when and where guards are. They know he was left on guard. This is consistent with the "maybe being kidnapped from a shitter." However...
5) Latrines are on the FOB, not outside of it. Guards are posted. If he was in the latrine, he had a weapon. No ruckus was raised, no shots. He left his rifle in his room.
6) He mailed home his uniforms prior to disappearing. He was on the start of the 5th month of a 7-12 month deployment.
7) Yes, many soldiers are disillusioned with military life. Very few send emails home about how they're disgusted, detail how they're going to leave and was advised to follow his conscious immediately (in some cases the very day before) his disappearance.
8) Same link as above. The radio transmissions that say he was taken from the latrine say they attacked the base. Of course, there was no attack. Again, an entire FOB doesn't sleep through an attack that would have had to happened on the post.
The end result is that short of a confession and a video tape that shows he walking off the FOB with middle fingers raised, there likely isn't any way for us to know the absolute truth. That being said, this is one hell of a perfect storm of circumstances if it later comes to light that he was actually ninja-napped. I mentioned before that I don't know what to think. This is still true, but based on everything I'm seeing he's either a deserter or just had both the shittiest and then the best run of luck known to man.
Negotiating for hostages is nothing new -- especially on the right. Reagan violated the arms embargo and sent thousands of missiles to Iran for hostages and it didn't even work. I don't think it is even fair to pretend that Bergdahl was a hostage -- he was a POW, just like the officials he was swapped for.
As for the notification law, Article 2 Secion 2 of the Constittuion clearly gives the President the power to release prisoners regardless of what Congress says: "[The President] shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment."
It's a bit of a stretch to label all former officials of an enemy government as "terrorists" for fighting a war that we started
Mackenzie 92
Member
Yeah after reading some more about it, it does sound like he wandered off. I don't think he did it with the intent of putting his fellow soliders in harms way tho, and I can't find anything about any soldiers dying who were looking for him.
By all accounts his unit was full of dipshits who didn't give a fuck, and he had lost a friend, and then the child being run down by a MRAP (accidentally) and other soldiers joking/laughing about it seemed to be the breaking point for him.
His dad didn't convert to islam, and yes the POW is glad to be home. Though he is understandably very fucked up physically and emotionally.
I don't really care if he was a deserter. Objectively, I think what is worse is the whole government owns your mind, body, and soul shit once you enlist. People should be able to quit without consequence if they feel like it. If the government purposely manipulates a society in order to get people to enlist, it's only fair that they can quit on their own volition. I've never seen an army recruitment center in the suburbs, yet I go get a job in one of the worst hoods in Brooklyn and there the army and marines have their recruitment centers. The government made sure these particular people were destitute in the hood, then want to turn around acting like their helping hand is altruistic. They'd rather send young blacks and latinos off to fight their wars than fix their school system.
The Iraq war was started under false pretenses and people died. Whether you are dying in Iraq or to go find a deserter, an order is an order and you're still getting shot at over some bullshit.
The Iraq war was started under false pretenses and people died. Whether you are dying in Iraq or to go find a deserter, an order is an order and you're still getting shot at over some bullshit.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Link to the soldiers killed in the search for him. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jun/2/soldiers-killed-trying-to-rescue-bowe-bergdahl-bra/
Lol. Come on, son. Recruiting stations are everywhere. Of course, Hollywood and Mission Viejo may be hoods to you, I dunno. https://www.facebook.com/pages/USMC-Recruiting-Station-Hollywood-RSS-Hollywood/135251563211606
Mackenzie 92
Member
There's no details of their deaths in that article? Given the source, call me skeptical.
Pristine_Condition
Member
A soldier who was one of his bunk mates before he deserted claims his story about the child being hit is a complete fabrication. He also claimed he joined the French Foreign Legion.
Guy also says if he deserted for conscientious reasons it doesn't make sense to him, as Berghdahl was frustrated that he didn't get to kill anybody in an engagement.
You're all over the place on this post. But allowing soldiers to just leave during a war is an absolutely dumb idea.
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