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[StayDead]

You're all over the place on this post. But allowing soldiers to just leave during a war is an absolutely dumb idea.

I wonder if you'd say that if conscription was brought in and you as a young man were thrown into an illegal war where you shouldn't even be. Would you be happy to sit there and just take the fact you're probably going to die and lose the one life you have because some fatcat sitting in an office or bunker somewhere forced you to do it? I realise people signed up to the army and they know what they're in for, but nobody should have to die because some politician started a fight they were not willing to take any part in themselves. If politicians want to fight wars they should have to do it with their own hands.

It's not as bad now as it was in WW2, but those soldiers shouldn't have even been in Afghanistan and Iraq. Just look at all the good it's done those places. All those people died for nothing and if every single soldier worldwide turned threw their guns away and refused to fight maybe the world would be a better place.

 

[WanderingWind]

I wonder if you'd say that if conscription was brought in and you as a young man were thrown into an illegal war where you shouldn't even be. Would you be happy to sit there and just take the fact you're probably going to die and lose the one life you have because some fatcat sitting in an office or bunker somewhere forced you to do it? I realise people signed up to the army and they know what they're in for, but nobody should have to die because some politician started a fight they were not willing to take any part in themselves. If politicians want to fight wars they should have to do it with their own hands.

It's not as bad now as it was in WW2, but those soldiers shouldn't have even been in Afghanistan and Iraq. Just look at all the good it's done those places. All those people died for nothing and if every single soldier worldwide turned threw their guns away and refused to fight maybe the world would be a better place.

Yes, things would be different if the military in question was a non-voluntary one in an age without the internet. However, it isn't, rendering literally everything you said wholly irrelevant.

 

[Jburton]

This whole thing stinks like shit, bad call letting those Taliban fighters go

Expect more as the US continue to negotiate with the Taliban as a part of the US exit strategy.

They need Taliban help, I expect recognition of the Taliban by the US in some fashion and release of Taliban prisoners as a part of POW resolution at the end of the Afghan War.

 

[Kite]

I've never seen an army recruitment center in the suburbs, yet I go get a job in one of the worst hoods in Brooklyn and there the army and marines have their recruitment centers.

hah you are full of shit, I enlisted at a recruitment office at a middle class suburb where the average house is appraised at $240k USD and 2,900 Median Square Feet. It isn't Beverly Hills but it isn't the inner city slums either, and the recruitment never had any issues meeting recruitment quotas.

 

[StayDead]

Yes, things would be different if the military in question was a non-voluntary one in an age without the internet. However, it isn't, rendering literally everything you said wholly irrelevant.

Is it voluntary? Or are many people actually forced to join the army because the situation is so dire for them otherwise that they have no choice?

Homelessness and Joblessness has been on the rise for young people over the past 15 years atleast and the governments around the world are doing nothing to fix the problem. The education sytem is failing hundreds if not thousands of people every single day and most of those people have no prospects.

This is where the military come in and give those people a supposed chance in life. It's the same in the UK. The advertisements and recruitment drives are there to put those same people who are already suffering into thinking that the army is the way out of their issues, when it isn't. Joining the army doesn't fix anything for anyone unless helping end the lives of people is your thing and you enjoy it.

I would actually say that the army puts off the illusion of being voluntary, but it's far from it. It would be interesting to know just how many people join the army each year because they feel they have no other choice. If it's as high as I think it is, then I think it's safe to say it's somewhat forced onto them.

 

[Tim the Wiz]

I don't get the confusion. The US has been publicly negotiating with the Taliban for a while now and will pull out of Afghanistan soon. It's doubtful these released men will be of much immediate threat to American interests after that.

 

[WanderingWind]

Is it voluntary? Or are many people actually forced to join the army because the situation is so dire for them otherwise that they have no choice?

Homelessness and Joblessness has been on the rise for young people over the past 15 years atleast and the governments around the world are doing nothing to fix the problem. The education sytem is failing hundreds if not thousands of people every single day and most of those people have no prospects.

This is where the military come in and give those people a supposed chance in life. It's the same in the UK. The advertisements and recruitment drives are there to put those same people who are already suffering into thinking that the army is the way out of their issues, when it isn't. Joining the army doesn't fix anything for anyone unless helping end the lives of people is your thing and you enjoy it.

I would actually say that the army puts off the illusion of being voluntary, but it's far from it. It would be interesting to know just how many people join the army each year because they feel they have no other choice. If it's as high as I think it is, then I think it's safe to say it's somewhat forced onto them.

Yes, it is voluntary. Completely and utterly. Once again, making everything else you typed irrelevant. I do apologize for reality not forming up with your preconceived notions. Perhaps spend some time talking to people with actual experience and knowledge in this area, instead of constructing poorly-thought out sermons?

hah you are full of shit, I enlisted at a recruitment office at a middle class suburb where the average house is appraised at $240k USD and 2,900 Median Square Feet. It isn't Beverly Hills but it isn't the inner city slums either, and the recruitment never had any issues meeting recruitment quotas.

Beverly Hills? There's a recruiting station there too! You could've saved some of your butler's time and gas. To join the military you were totally forced to join, of course.

7080 Hollywood Blvd #108
Los Angeles, CA, United States
(323) 467-2025

 

[Cloudy]

I don't get the confusion. The US has been publicly negotiating with the Taliban for a while now and will pull out of Afghanistan soon. It's doubtful these released men will be of much immediate threat to American interests after that.

People don't realize that under international law, these guys cannot legally be held indefinitely after combat operations in Afghanistan are over. The useless media is no help here.

 

[Dude Abides]

I think the rest of the world are already questioning the Americans over this. I don't think adding fuel to the fire would help.

I don't think anyone cares much apart from the Benghazi! crowd.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

I don't get the confusion. The US has been publicly negotiating with the Taliban for a while now and will pull out of Afghanistan soon. It's doubtful these released men will be of much immediate threat to American interests after that.

Didn't you know these are the "MOST" dangerous men on the planet and we gave them back for a spineless deserter!

Rolls eyes

Cowboy politics don't work folks this was a calculated move and the details are currently secret I'm sure.

 

[Schattenjäger]

This is really mind boggling - hope there's more to this .. Maybe he was an informant or something

Otherwise this may prove to be one of Obamas worst decisions

 

[DY_nasty]

Didn't you know these are the "MOST" dangerous men on the planet and we gave them back for a spineless deserter!

Rolls eyes

Cowboy politics don't work folks this was a calculated move and the details are currently secret I'm sure.

I'm not following. The things that aren't secret are pretty clear.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

I'm not following. The things that aren't secret are pretty clear.

I am by no means saying these men aren't dangerous. However there is alot more going on with the war on terror, Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay then we or even congress knows about.

David Atkins wrote a good article about it.

Extreme obstruction & secrecy make for dysfunctional government

 

[TheJLC]

I don't think anyone cares much apart from the Benghazi! crowd.

A lot of people care. This issue was brought up by soldiers of the same unit and family members of the injured and deceased as a protest. Afghanistan is also angry and protesting this trade as a lack of commitment to the security to their nation.

5 of the worse criminals were released and it's possible they were exchanged for a deserter.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Beverly Hills? There's a recruiting station there too! You could've saved some of your butler's time and gas. To join the military you were totally forced to join, of course.

7080 Hollywood Blvd #108
Los Angeles, CA, United States
(323) 467-2025

That's miles from Beverly Hills btw.

 

[CrankyJay]

This is really mind boggling - hope there's more to this .. Maybe he was an informant or something

Otherwise this may prove to be one of Obamas worst decisions

If one of these guys goes on to carry out some sort of attack before his term is over, he's done.

 

[DY_nasty]

I am by no means saying these men aren't dangerous. However there is alot more going on with the war on terror, Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay then we or even congress knows about.

David Atkins wrote a good article about it.

Extreme obstruction & secrecy make for dysfunctional government

...

Yeah.... Yeah. There's always a lot more going on with a lot of things but these guys are clearly, clearly dangerous. You have to throw a lot of information straight out the window to build some of these theories.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

...

Yeah.... Yeah. There's always a lot more going on with a lot of things but these guys are clearly, clearly dangerous. You have to throw a lot of information straight out the window to build some of these theories.

I agree. however I have more faith in our current administration then them just going fuck it. DO THE TRADE!! bring him home. They clearly knew he was a deserter before hand.

maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Valjean Lafitte]

here's an article from the Washington Post focusing on the father and the community, for what it's worth.




He didn't convert to Islam; he says he grew the beard out of solidarity.

He wasn't speaking Arabic at the press conference, he was speaking Pashto.

This whole thing is so strange. :/
I know we'll get a cryptic, vague statement from Bergdahl and his family soon, but as much as I hope there isn't a darker story behind this it's tough to accept the events as they played out. It's also strange considering the government had to know what the reactions would be.

“What none of these media is reporting is that the father’s (SGT Bowe Bergdahl’s father Bob) first words at the WH were in Arabic – those words were “bism allah alrahman alraheem” – which means “in the name of Allah the most gracious and most merciful” – these are the opening words of every chapter of the Qur’an except one (the chapter of the sword – the 9th"

I dunno. Can anyone verify this?

 

[SecretMoblin]

I dunno. Can anyone verify this?

That's the basmala, an Arabic phrase common to Muslims regardless of nationality, like using "insha'Allah" or "Allahu Akbar". In this context, he was using it to speak to his son's captors using language they would likely sympathize with, so he peppered his speech with stuff like that.

(you know who Allen West is, right?)

 

[RustyNails]

I dunno. Can anyone verify this?

Verify what? Chapter 9 of the Qur'an isn't "Sword chapter". Ridiculous. It's called Tawbah, or Repentance. It's addressing the Battle of Tabuk.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) on Tuesday bashed the White House for failing to notify Congress before negotiating for the release of Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl.

"I strongly believe that we should have been consulted, that the law should have been followed. And I very much regret that that was not the case," Feinstein told reporters on Capitol Hill.

Democrat @SenFeinstein says flatly WH violated the law by not notifying Congress especially given "bipartisan" concerns about detainees..

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/feinstein-white-house-violated-law-bergdahl

This is either the most idiotic White House decision of the year or some shadow ops shit we'll never learn the truth about.

There was a story last week that Bergdhal wanted to be in special forces, too.

 

[Tamanon]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/feinstein-white-house-violated-law-bergdahl

This is either the most idiotic White House decision of the year or some shadow ops shit we'll never learn the truth about.

There was a story last week that Bergdhal wanted to be in special forces, too.

Or neither.

 

[DY_nasty]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/feinstein-white-house-violated-law-bergdahl

This is either the most idiotic White House decision of the year or some shadow ops shit we'll never learn the truth about.

There was a story last week that Bergdhal wanted to be in special forces, too.

everyone wants to be SF

that doesn't mean a thing really

 

[ISOM]

If one of these guys goes on to carry out some sort of attack before his term is over, he's done.

Yeah because the taliban has been so successful in harming the US in the last 5 years. :rollseyes:. Obama has been tougher on the al qaeda than any other modern presidents. Between drone kills and killing osama bin laden, why do people think these released prisoners pose such a threat? It's a bit ridiculous.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Yeah because the taliban has been so successful in harming the US in the last 5 years. :rollseyes:. Obama has been tougher on the algaeda than any other modern presidents. Between drone kills and killing osama bin laden, why do people think these released prisoners pose such a threat? It's a bit ridiculous.

They're also not members of AQ, and I assume they've been chipped so we'll know where they are - unless they cut their arm off or something.

 

[Tamanon]

Also, the "war" has completely changed over there in the decade they've been away. Honestly, they're going to be too behind the times technology wise to be any help if they wanted.

 

[Random Painted HIghway]

Surely the taliban would expect these guys to be chipped (or turned) and thus they will be persona non grata?

 

[ISOM]

They're also not members of AQ, and I assume they've been chipped so we'll know where they are - unless they cut their arm off or something.

My point still stands. Obama has shown he will not hesitate in drone killing these guys and as you said they are very liked being tracked through some sort of chip or ID.

 

[sangreal]

Yeah because the taliban has been so successful in harming the US in the last 5 years. :rollseyes:. Obama has been tougher on the algaeda than any other modern presidents. Between drone kills and killing osama bin laden, why do people think these released prisoners pose such a threat? It's a bit ridiculous.

people legitimately act like terrorists (and apparently the taliban) are super villains. We saw this when they tried to prosecute KSM and others in NY and it terrified people

 

[rudieboy77]

Watching the Republicans reaction to this is humorous as usual.

 

[speculawyer]

people legitimately act like terrorists (and apparently the taliban) are super villains. We saw this when they tried to prosecute KSM and others in NY and it terrified people

Yeah, people need to remember that the Taliban were not the crazy jihadist terrorists that attacked us. That was Al-Qeada. That said, the Taliban are jerks that hosted Al-Qeada and didn't turn them over so they deserved getting invaded. But our fight with the Taliban has been more of a conventional war than an anti-terrorist action.

 

[DarthWoo]

Surely the taliban would expect these guys to be chipped (or turned) and thus they will be persona non grata?

Are there actually chips that could be implanted surreptitiously and be tracked from very long range outside of fiction? I was really hoping something like that was involved here, and that a drone wouldn't be too far behind.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

They're also not members of AQ, and I assume they've been chipped so we'll know where they are - unless they cut their arm off or something.

There's no such thing as being "chipped." Not in any way that would be discrete enough to work anyway. That's pure science fiction. Unless you have figured out entirely new ways of making antennas that completely defy the laws of physics.

 

[block tower]

this country amazes me sometimes.. people are so concerned with things like Bengahzi and now this POW, yet show them the rampant corporatism and corruption in government that are destroying this country and they dont give two shits.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

@OliverNorthFNC
I have the real story about #Bergdahl tonight on @seanhannity @ 10ET. HINT: it's not the White House version.

 

[Dude Abides]

A lot of people care. This issue was brought up by soldiers of the same unit and family members of the injured and deceased as a protest. Afghanistan is also angry and protesting this trade as a lack of commitment to the security to their nation.

5 of the worse criminals were released and it's possible they were exchanged for a deserter.

So like maybe 100 people?

 

[sangreal]

@OliverNorthFNC
I have the real story about #Bergdahl tonight on @seanhannity @ 10ET. HINT: it's not the White House version.

The irony is unbearable

 

[sangreal]

Afghanistan is also angry and protesting this trade as a lack of commitment to the security to their nation.

Afghanistan is (publicly at least) upset over procedural, not security issues. Their statement said it was illegal to transfer the prisoners to a 3rd country (Qatar). Privately, they are said to have been involved in the talks from the start -- only left in the dark after the final deal.

 

[antonz]

So like maybe 100 people?

We get it you don't give a shit.

 

[kehs]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/feinstein-white-house-violated-law-bergdahl

This is either the most idiotic White House decision of the year or some shadow ops shit we'll never learn the truth about.

There was a story last week that Bergdhal wanted to be in special forces, too.

Sure, if you think a lame duck president is thinking about their third term.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

The irony is unbearable

I think you'd have been surprised if you actually watched his segment.

"Bububu...FAUXNEWS!!! OMG!!!"

 

[Cloudy]

Watching the Republicans reaction to this is humorous as usual.

I think it's kind of sad, actually. Is nothing above partisan politics anymore? These same republicans would be attacking Obama if this guy was left behind.

That said, I don't think the administration was ready for this kind of GOP-organized backlash from people who served with Berghdahl.

5 of the worse criminals were released and it's possible they were exchanged for a deserter.

I just don't understand this line of thinking from any rational person. The ONLY reason 5 people who were really a threat would be released is if you're operating under the assumption that Obama and all the diplomats and military personnel who brokered this deal are working against the country.

Obviously no one can actually come out and say these guys aren't doing shit cos the next question would be, "why were they held for over a decade?" The government is in a really untenable situation here...

 

[Velcro Fly]

Whether he deserted or not they aren't going to do anything. They didn't give up five people only to bring him back here to investigate and eventually throw him in jail.

 

[speculawyer]

The irony is unbearable

The section you cited didn't mention the full story. Let me include a sentence from the start of the Oliver North Wiki entry:

The scandal involved the clandestine sale of weapons to Iran, which was to encourage the release of U.S. hostages then held in Lebanon.

 

[Armoured Priest]

huh.

Charles Krauthammer, one of the standard GOP gotos, is actually defending Obama.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/krauthammer-obama-didnt-have-to-go-to-congress-on-bergdahl/

in fairness, i didn't watch the video...that website player is being weird for some reason, so if there extra stuff not in the text, i missed it.

 

[Volimar]

It's quite entertaining seeing the media do a 180 in their coverage of this guy.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I just don't understand this line of thinking from any rational person. The ONLY reason 5 people who were really a threat would be released is if you're operating under the assumption that Obama and all the diplomats and military personnel who brokered this deal are working against the country.

Obviously no one can actually come out and say these guys aren't doing shit cos the next question would be, "why were they held for over a decade?" The government is in a really untenable situation here...

5 of the worst? They were cutting deals and surrendering back in 2001-2

 

[Dude Abides]

We get it you don't give a shit.

Nor does much of anyone. Pisses you off doesn't it?

 

[benjipwns]

Nor does much of anyone. Pisses you off doesn't it?

I don't give a shit about whether I give a shit about how much everyone gives a shit or not.