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[WanderingWind]

There's no details of their deaths in that article? Given the source, call me skeptical.

I don't get it. What makes you skeptical about verifiable deaths? You can look up their deaths if you'd like and exactly how they died. I simply gave you the names.

 

[Mackenzie 92]

A soldier who was one of his bunk mates before he deserted claims his story about the child being hit is a complete fabrication.

I doubt it. Shit like that happens all the time over there.

I don't get it. What makes you skeptical about verifiable deaths? You can look up their deaths if you'd like and exactly how they died. I simply gave you the names.

It just says "these 6 soldiers died while looking for him." I'm not questioning their deaths, just saying the story doesn't say how they died. Could have been any number of circumstances. It doesn't sound like there were any firefights during the initial search efforts, that I could find.

 

[Random Painted HIghway]

I doubt it. Shit like that happens all the time over there.







It just says "these 6 soldiers died while looking for him." I'm not questioning their deaths, just saying the story doesn't say how they died. Could have been any number of circumstances. It doesn't sound like there were any firefights during the initial search efforts, that I could find.

The cnn article I just linked has their deaths more detailed. IED for three and then just the dates for the others.

 

[WanderingWind]

No offense, but all you have to do is Google their names independent of the story. It's one thing to be skeptical, it's another to be so on the basis of nothing but your gut feelings.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

I doubt it. Shit like that happens all the time over there.

Read my edit. Dude also claimed he was a member of the French Foreign Legion and fought drug dealers.

B would tell us romanizing stories about how joined the French foreign legend(he didn't), how he beat up drug dealers(?) and...

How he wanted to be a mercenary if the army didn't work out.

The guy on twitter also details a lot of other things that seem pretty "inside baseball" and trivial but add up to a pattern of Beghdahl's letters home not being accurate.

@CodyFNfootball
LT. Bradshaw in Cco and Bowe didn't even know each other. At all. B portraying them as great friends in emails to his Dad makes no sense
6:06 p.m. Sat, May 31

 

[Angelus Errare]

Where do you think Americans came from...

If you believe people against immigration, Americans were always here.

 

[Mackenzie 92]

The cnn article I just linked has their deaths more detailed. IED for three and then just the dates for the others.

Yeah, just saw it. Definitely explains more.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Yeah, just saw it. Definitely explains more.

_ _ @CodyFNfootball 2d
A huge thing in country is not building patterns. Well when you are looking for a person everyday that creates a pattern.
View details ·

_ _ @CodyFNfootball 2d
While searching for him, ambushes and IEDs picked up tremendously. Enemy knew we would be coming.
View details ·

_ @CodyFNfootball 2d
IEDs started being placed more effectively in the coming weeks. Ambushes were more calculated, cover and concealment was used
View details ·

The thing about "creating a pattern" makes perfect sense. They could set up ambushes if they knew forces were coming to look for the deserter. That's what I would do if I were Taliban.

 

[Darkangel]

I'm sure the government wouldn't hand over the 5 Taliban members if they posed any kind of significant threat. Unless they're really incompitent...

 

[GTI Guy]

They should implant some super tracking devices on these people they release them and then drop bombs on them when they get to the HQ of the bad guys.

 

[Mackenzie 92]

No offense, but all you have to do is Google their names independent of the story. It's one thing to be skeptical, it's another to be so on the basis of nothing but your gut feelings.

I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm only skeptical of media spin and reporting. It has nothing to do with gut feelings. I'm still learning more and more about the story.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

I'm sure the government wouldn't hand over the 5 Taliban members if they posed any kind of significant threat. Unless they're really incompitent...

The government lists ALL FIVE as "HIGH RISK" to return to the fight.

If anyone doubts that the five senior Taliban leaders President Obama released this weekend will return to the fight and kill more Americans, they need only look at what happened when the George W. Bush administration released a Taliban leader named Mullah Abdul Qayyum Zakir (a.k.a. Abdullah Ghulam Rasoul) in 2007.

Unlike the terrorists Obama just set free, Zakir was assessed by our military as only “medium risk” of returning to the fight. At Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, Zakir pretended to be a low-ranking conscript and told officials he simply wanted to “go back home and join my family” and promised “I [have] never been America’s enemy and I never intend to be.”

But when he returned to Afghanistan, he quickly became one of America’s fiercest enemies, directly responsible for the deaths of U.S., coalition and Afghan forces. In 2009, Zakir was appointed as the Taliban’s “surge commander” in charge of countering Obama’s new strategy to deny the Taliban safe haven in southern Afghanistan. According to the Times of London, Zakir instituted a campaign of “increasingly sophisticated [roadside] explosives attacks” that killed British and U.S. forces as well as many Afghan civilians. He waged relentless war on the United States and presided over unspeakable atrocities before stepping down from military command in April. To this day, he remains a top member of the Taliban leadership council.

The five Taliban leaders Obama released will now take up where Zakir left off. According to our own military, they are all “high risk” to return to the fight. How dangerous are these men? Here is what the U.S. military says about them, according to their leaked assessments from Guantanamo Bay.

Mullah Norullah Noori is “one of the most significant former Taliban officials detained at JTF-GTMO.” He “led troops against US and Coalition forces” and “was directly subordinate to Taliban Supreme Leader Mullah Omar,” is “associated with members of al-Qaida” and is “wanted by the UN for possible war crimes.” Noori’s “brother is currently a Taliban commander conducting operations against US and Coalition forces,” and Noori “would likely join his brother if released.”

Mullah Mohammad Fazl, the Taliban’s deputy defense minister, is so senior in the Taliban hierarchy that he once threatened the Taliban’s supreme leader, Mullah Omar. Fazl has “operational associations with significant al-Qaida and other extremist personnel,” and “If released, [Fazl] would likely rejoin the Taliban and establish ties with anti-Coalition militias (ACM) participating in hostilities against US and Coalition forces in Afghanistan.”

Abdul Haq Wasiq, who was the Taliban’s deputy minister of intelligence, “utilized his office to support al-Qaida and to assist Taliban personnel [to] elude capture…. arranged for al-Qaida personnel to train Taliban intelligence staff in intelligence methods” and “assigned al-Qaida members to the Taliban Ministry of Intelligence.” He “was central to the Taliban’s efforts to form alliances with other Islamic fundamentalist groups to fight alongside the Taliban against US and Coalition forces.” If released “he is likely to pose a threat to the US, its interests and allies.”

Mullah Khirullah Said Wali Khairkhwa, once the Taliban’s interior minister, was “directly associated to Usama Bin Laden (UBL) and Taliban Supreme Commander Mullah Muhammad Omar” and was “trusted and respected by both.” After the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, he “represented the Taliban during meetings with Iranian officials seeking to support hostilities against US and Coalition forces” and “attended a meeting at the direction of UBL, reportedly accompanied by members of HAMAS.” He is “one of the premier opium drug lords in Western Afghanistan” and was likely “associated with a militant training camp in Herat operated by deceased al-Qaida commander (in Iraq) Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.”

Mohammad Nabi Omari is “a senior Taliban official” who was “a member of a joint al-Qaida/Taliban ACM cell in Khowst and was involved in attacks against US and Coalition forces.” He “held weekly meetings” with “three al-Qaida affiliated individuals” to discuss anti-coalition plans, “maintained weapons caches” and “facilitated two al-Qaida operatives smuggling an unknown number of missiles along the highway between Jalalabad and Peshawar,” which intelligence officials believe contributed to the deaths of two Americans.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...eab8aa-ea59-11e3-b98c-72cef4a00499_story.html

 

[GungHo]

This is the guy who just walked off a FOB right?

Apparently. It's hard to know what the real story is, as it changes from telling to telling whether this guy just got lost, walked off in protest, or was captured in the shitter. As WanderingWind notes, it's likely not the shitter story. Him walking off, though, would be massively stupid. Where's he gonna go from a FOB? It's not like he can just walk down to the Greyhound station, say "Allahu ackbar", and bum a ride. Not sure what the guy was thinking if it's really the AWOL story.

I've got to imagine there's something else going on here, though. Maybe those Taliban guys who they say were the "Chief of Staff", etc, were really just the janitor, the bartender, and the goat massager and they all decided "fuck it, maybe we can get something out of it", and they've been making up the stories about these guys being bad motherfuckers and they can't drop the story but also don't want to keep providing meals for them.

I think his 5 years in taliban's custody was punishment enough if he did AWOL.

That's for the JAG to decide as to whether or not they want to have a courts martial. Not sure that would get them anything, though, and it probably opens them up to more bullshit when they want it all to go away.

 

[MacNille]

If he is a deserter, then I have no sympath for him.
If you are not happy with beaing in the army, don't be a fucking oathbreaker! Also, why the fuck did his dad convert to Islam?

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Apparently. It's hard to know what the real story is, as it changes from telling to telling whether this guy just got lost, walked off in protest, or was captured in the shitter. As WanderingWind notes, it's likely not the shitter story. Him walking off, though, would be massively stupid. Where's he gonna go from a FOB? It's not like he can just walk down to the Greyhound station, say "Allahu ackbar", and bum a ride. Not sure what the guy was thinking if it's really the AWOL story.

The Rolling Stone article was pretty certain he went AWOL. Hell, he mailed all his shit back home before he left. Why would you do that if you were planning on staying?

I've got to imagine there's something else going on here, though. Maybe those Taliban guys who they say were the "Chief of Staff", etc, were really just the janitor, the bartender, and the goat massager and they all decided "fuck it, maybe we can get something out of it", and they've been making up the stories about these guys being bad motherfuckers and they can't drop the story but also don't want to keep providing meals for them.

The intelligence is pretty thorough on these guys, and isn't just sourced by the US. All have UN warrants. And in the case of a guy like Noori, it's pretty tough to fake your brother being a senior Taliban commander. Also, the Taliban ASKED for THESE GUYS.

Really, it's amazing the amount of mental gymnastics required to hold onto the pure faith required to believe that this isn't a terrible, terrible decision by this government.

IMO, this is pretty clearly a situation of "oh, the VA scandal was a mess, likely resulting in the deaths of 40 veterans at the Phoenix VA alone, and Shinseki is resigning in disgrace...so here's a shiny object to distract you that we had to have out there in the media RIGHT NOW.

Really, if you aren't at least skeptical, I don't know what to say.

 

[Chumly]

Easy, after the CIA has already chipped them as targets for Obama's robot army, they wait a few months after those 5 "escape" from Qatar, and then *boom.*

...and you will never hear about it on the news.

If those 5 guys leave Qatar and/or make a peep, they're dead.

I could definitely see them being chipped. That or the government was illegally detaining them anyways.

 

[BeerSnob]

I don't really care if he was a deserter. Objectively, I think what is worse is the whole government owns your mind, body, and soul shit once you enlist.

No, you sign a contract. If you fail to deliver, they put you in jail. They don't own shit.

People should be able to quit without consequence if they feel like it.

You can't "quit" a war when it starts to suck. People die if you throw a hissy fit and refuse to do your part.

If the government purposely manipulates a society in order to get people to enlist, it's only fair that they can quit on their own volition. I've never seen an army recruitment center in the suburbs, yet I go get a job in one of the worst hoods in Brooklyn and there the army and marines have their recruitment centers.

Stripmalls are full of Armed Forces recruiting centers. Recruiters going to highschools and campuses was extremely common in all economic areas. At one point during the surge a non-trivial number of IET soldiers had bachelors degrees.

The government made sure these particular people were destitute in the hood, then want to turn around acting like their helping hand is altruistic. They'd rather send young blacks and latinos off to fight their wars than fix their school system.

Have you even seen an active duty unit doing drills? There's more diversity out there than a U.N meeting, Army gives less of a shit about skin color than you do.

The Iraq war was started under false pretenses and people died. Whether you are dying in Iraq or to go find a deserter, an order is an order and you're still getting shot at over some bullshit.

Are you just quoting bumperstickers now?

 

[Eighty Deuce]

This whole thing stinks like shit, bad call letting those Taliban fighters go

 

[GungHo]

Really, it's amazing the amount of mental gymnastics required to hold onto the pure faith required to believe that this isn't a terrible, terrible decision by this government.

I'm trying to think of any reason behind it, and I can't find anything beyond the Wag the Dog scenario, either, but I also admit that I'm a stupid grunt and that I hope that the people running the show aren't fools who think that a feel good story about getting the dumbest man in the war back home is somehow going to make everyone look the other way.

 

[Jakeh111]

Also, why the fuck did his dad convert to Islam?

Maybe cause he wanted to be a Muslim?

 

[ISOM]

Apparently. It's hard to know what the real story is, as it changes from telling to telling whether this guy just got lost, walked off in protest, or was captured in the shitter. As WanderingWind notes, it's likely not the shitter story. Him walking off, though, would be massively stupid. Where's he gonna go from a FOB? It's not like he can just walk down to the Greyhound station, say "Allahu ackbar", and bum a ride. Not sure what the guy was thinking if it's really the AWOL story.

I've got to imagine there's something else going on here, though. Maybe those Taliban guys who they say were the "Chief of Staff", etc, were really just the janitor, the bartender, and the goat massager and they all decided "fuck it, maybe we can get something out of it", and they've been making up the stories about these guys being bad motherfuckers and they can't drop the story but also don't want to keep providing meals for them.


That's for the JAG to decide as to whether or not they want to have a courts martial. Not sure that would get them anything, though, and it probably opens them up to more bullshit when they want it all to go away.

I meant that imo that 5 years with the taliban was punishment enough for and awol, desertion actions. I never meant that it was a justifiable punishment from the JAG perspective too.

 

[MacNille]

Maybe cause he wanted to be a Muslim?

I just found it to be a weird timing with his son beaing a POW.

 

[methane47]

time to start watching homeland again.

 

[Bodacious]

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press...s-briefing-press-secretary-jay-carney-6212013

Q Jay, going to back to Afghanistan, the Taliban has offered to release Bowe Bergdahl in exchange for five members of the Taliban who are currently being held at Guantanamo Bay. Is this something that the administration is considering? Is this something that the President would agree to?

MR. CARNEY: What I can tell you is that the main dialogue that we support is the dialogue between Afghans -- between the Taliban and the Afghan government. However, there are some issues that we would like to discuss with the Taliban directly, and this includes the safe return of Sergeant Bergdahl, who has been gone for far too long.

We continue to call for and work toward his safe and immediate release. We cannot discuss all the details of our efforts, but there should be no doubt that on a daily basis we are continuing to pursue -- using our military, intelligence and diplomatic tools -- the effort to return him home safely. And our hearts are with the Bergdahl family.

With regard to the transfer of Taliban detainees from Guantanamo Bay, we have made -- the United States has not made the decision to do that, though we do expect the Taliban to raise this issue in our discussion, if and when those discussions happen.

As we have long said, however, we would not make any decisions about transfer of any detainees without consulting with Congress and without doing so in accordance with U.S. law.

So much for that, I guess.



.

 

[Random Painted HIghway]

coincidence that carney steps down now in the wake of the va scandal and this?

 

[ISOM]

Anyway. Time for some positive insight into the story. Here is an article linking to a video about Bowe's dad daily fight to bring his son home.

Bowe Bergdahl's father Bob: 'I'm a father who wants his son back'

 

[antonz]

I meant that imo that 5 years with the taliban was punishment enough for and awol, desertion actions. I never meant that it was a justifiable punishment from the JAG perspective too.

Desertion during wartime is a Death Penalty offense. If his desertion led to other troops being killed while searching for him he deserves the full punishment of the law.

 

[ISOM]

Desertion during wartime is a Death Penalty offense. If his desertion led to other troops being killed while searching for him he deserves the full punishment of the law.

Did you miss my subsequent post where I said imo?

 

[GungHo]

I meant that imo that 5 years with the taliban was punishment enough for and awol, desertion actions. I never meant that it was a justifiable punishment from the JAG perspective too.

I understood you, no worries.

 

[AkuMifune]

Desertion during wartime is a Death Penalty offense. If his desertion led to other troops being killed while searching for him he deserves the full punishment of the law.

Apparently 6 soldiers died in previous efforts to rescue him.

Releasing 5 Taliban for a civilian, maybe. Not for a soldier and never for a deserter. This thing stinks and really leaves me feeling really shitty.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

What is this 30 days stuff I keep reading about!? Man the right is in a fit right now.

 

[mcflyOS]

I think, given the reports of the soldiers who knew him, it's highly likely he was a deserter. His actions in breach of his contract and oath lead to the death of other soldiers, and his release from captivity cost everyone security from some pretty scary murderous motherfuckers. It's made America look weak, which invites more daring and risky attacks. No one wins in this scenario except him, and his family, and even more numerous terrorists. How this was ever approved. It's just incredible.

 

[WonkyPanda]

This really is a catch-22 right now. It doesn't help that this is in the wake of the VA scandal. Dems going to get obliterated in the midterms.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

I think, given the reports of the soldiers who knew him, it's highly likely he was a deserter. His actions in breach of his contract and oath lead to the death of other soldiers, and his release from captivity cost everyone security from some pretty scary murderous motherfuckers. It's made America look weak, which invites more daring and risky attacks. No one wins in this scenario except him, and his family, and even more numerous terrorists. How this was ever approved. It's just incredible.

How do you end the war in Afghanistan with a POW still being held captive? That's the end game here. Nobody knows the details of this release for sure and for good reason it's a national security risk.

Even if the guy is a deserter he deserves his trial at home.

 

[mcflyOS]

How do you end the war in Afghanistan with a POW still being held captive? That's the end game here. Nobody knows the details of this release for sure and for good reason it's a national security risk.

Even if the guy is a deserter he deserves his trial at home.

Not in exchange for 5 of the meanest Muslim fanatics on the planet who feel they're on a cosmic quest to kill "Jews and Crusaders". Btw, don't you think to end a war, you need some agreement on both sides? Isn't Obama's plan rather to quit the war, instead of really ending it? Al-Qaeda in Iraq has since captured Iraqi cities since Obama's timed U.S. pullout. That includes Fallujah, which the U.S. had to launch two offensives to clear the city of them, losing Marines and other soldiers in the process, it was a messy close-quarters house-by-house sweep of the city. The Iraqi civilian death toll in May was the highest of the year.

 

[Tallshortman]

Looking back on it they need to determine if he deserted, and if so he should be punished. No question about that, 5 years is nothing for desertion in war time and he possibly led to the death of several soldiers searching for him. Yeah I'm also not a fan of this deal. Assuming they determined he deserted, I'm not sure why they thought he was worth 5 high level taliban.

Also, why the fuck did his dad convert to Islam?

He didn't, article I read mentioned townspeople see them at church regularly. You're probably getting that from critics noting his beard, speaking some arabic, etc.

 

[SecretMoblin]

here's an article from the Washington Post focusing on the father and the community, for what it's worth.

Over the years, he talked at length with Bergdahl, listened as the father questioned and probed his own beliefs to reach some understanding of the radical Islam driving the Taliban.

He didn't convert to Islam; he says he grew the beard out of solidarity.

He wasn't speaking Arabic at the press conference, he was speaking Pashto.

This whole thing is so strange. :/
I know we'll get a cryptic, vague statement from Bergdahl and his family soon, but as much as I hope there isn't a darker story behind this it's tough to accept the events as they played out. It's also strange considering the government had to know what the reactions would be.

 

[Stinkles]

BERGDHAZI

 

[t26]

They are saying his dad learned Pashto and hoped that it would help get his son back. He made video to the Taliban speaking in their language.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...eard-and-utterances-in-Arabic-and-Pashtu.html

 

[antonz]

I suspect there is going to be a lot of revelations over the coming days.

Dad was in constant contact with Taliban online even saying America will suffer Gods wrath for every afghan child killed etc.

 

[Enron]

This administration continues to amaze me.

Five dangerous, high-value Taliban that are likely to bite us in the ass again all for some deserting piece of shit?

 

[Nesotenso]

This entire affair just seems so weird. Saw the Dad with the huge beard with Obama but it never occurred to me that he converted. Just so bizarre.


edit: ok seems that he didn't convert. Maybe he was just trying to gain some brownie points with the Taliban and get his son back.

 

[Hermii]

What would have looked worse politically? Releasing five guys thats hyped up to be these hardcore Taliban fighters, or releasing five guys and saying "Yeah they were probably innocent in the first place, so we dont really care"?

 

[Jimmyfenix]

This entire affair just seems so weird. Saw the Dad with the huge beard with Obama but it never occurred to me that he converted. Just so bizarre.


edit: ok seems that he didn't convert. Maybe he was just trying to gain some brownie points with the Taliban and get his son back.

What?

 

[PaulExcellent]

What?

Karma, good points, etc.
It's a common expression.

 

[Jimmyfenix]

Karma, good points, etc.
It's a common expression.

Oh I get it now!

Still this situation is all kinds of messed up.

 

[AusRoachman]

What's stopping the us from just quietly sending a drone or some snipers to quietly kill off these released prisoners ?

Surely they will be tracking them constantly.

 

[Jimmyfenix]

What's stopping the us from just quietly sending a drone or some snipers to quietly kill off these released prisoners ?

Surely they will be tracking them constantly.

People will eventually find out.

 

[AusRoachman]

People will eventually find out.

So what , most of the world would cheer and u upset the Taliban who already hate you.

 

[Jimmyfenix]

So what , most of the world would cheer and u upset the Taliban who already hate you.

I think the rest of the world are already questioning the Americans over this. I don't think adding fuel to the fire would help.