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Bowe Berghdahl, POW in Afghanistan, to return to the US

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This whole thing has pulled attention away from the VA scandal. It makes me mad on so many levels

What the hell is wrong with you and other people who seem to think people can only focus on one thing, or this childish idea that one story can "distract" from the real story? There are dozens of stories a week - every week in fact. No one story dominates the headlines for long, but that doesn't mean it disappears.

The VA story isn't done, and will be talked about longer than this POW hissy fit.
 

Elija2

Member
I don't see what's so hypocritical about the people who wanted him to be rescued but aren't happy with the terms of his rescue (unless these terms were known beforehand).
 

Wilsongt

Member
I don't see what's so hypocritical about the people who wanted him to be rescued but aren't happy with the terms of his rescue (unless these terms were known beforehand).


In the clearest contradiction, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) told CNN’s Anderson Cooper in February that he “would be inclined to support” “an exchange of prisoners for our American fighting man,” like the one Taliban officials had offered in 2012. He has since labeled Obama’s deal “ill-founded” and a “mistake.”

Sen. Kelly Ayotte (R-NH) also thinks that “the administration’s decision to release these five terrorist detainees endangers U.S. national security interests” and “sets a precedent that could encourage our enemies to capture more Americans.” But since 2011, Ayotte has issued multiple press releases and public statements calling on the Obama administration to “redouble its efforts” to find Bergdahl. She touted a provision in the Senate’s Fiscal Year 2015 defense authorization bill “that presses Pakistan to fully cooperate in the search for SGT Bergdahl” and specifically mentioned Bergdahl in her Memorial Day address.

Sen. Jim Inhofe (R-OK) — the ranking member of the Senate Armed Services Committee — has also said that the U.S. “must make every effort to bring this captured soldier home to his family.” But appearing on Fox News just days after Bergdahl’s release, Inhofe criticized the administration for agreeing to free “people who have killed Americans, people who are the brain power of Taliban.”

McCain has gone back and forth over the years:

In June of 2013, as news broke of a restart of Afghanistan peace talks, the senator told Congressional Quarterly News that he opposes “the release of five Taliban which was in the background of previous conversations about it.”

In February of 2014, McCain appeared on CNN’s Anderson Cooper and explained, “at that time the proposal was that they would release — Taliban, some of them really hard-core, particularly five really hard-core Taliban leaders, as a confidence- building measure. Now this idea is for an exchange of prisoners for our American fighting man. I would be inclined to support such a thing depending on a lot of the details.”

So, no. It's flip flopping for the sake of flip flopping. Or, pulling a Romney.

Also this shows the idea that the talks of trading POWs for this guy has been going on for a while, so Congress can't really cry foul. I think the GOP would be pissed off no matter who they released from Gitmo.

Edit:

Also, something I read somewhere and does make you think. Why would his squad mates who called him a deserter and all just now finally come out as opposed to the last five years when proposals to rescue him have been put forth. This reeks of GOP throwing shit at the wall and trying to make it stick and make it into something much bigger than what it is.
 

Bodacious

Banned
So, no. It's flip flopping for the sake of flip flopping. Or, pulling a Romney.

Also this shows the idea that the talks of trading POWs for this guy has been going on for a while, so Congress can't really cry foul. I think the GOP would be pissed off no matter who they released from Gitmo.

If you go back to pg 3 you'll see my post quoting a White House press conference where Jay Carney discusses the possibility of this deal being made almost a year ago. He also explicitly stated it would never be done, "without consulting with Congress and without doing so in accordance with U.S. law." So yeah the idea was public knowledge, but they did it without Congressional notice or approval after explicitly saying they'd do that first. So, have to disagree with ya.


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I don't see what's so hypocritical about the people who wanted him to be rescued but aren't happy with the terms of his rescue (unless these terms were known beforehand).

What about the multitude of people who wanted him to be rescued but now have decided he's a "traitor" and that the Obama administration is lying by calling him a hero. Quite a few republicans have been caught deleting past tweets so they can jump on the "fuck Bowe Berghdahl" bandwagon.
 
More than 500 Guantanamo detainees were released or transferred under Bush
Indeed, government documents indicate more than 500 detainees were released or transferred from Guantanamo while George W. Bush was president. A White House executive order issued on the second day of Obama's presidency said, " The federal government has moved more than 500 such detainees from Guantánamo, either by returning them to their home country or by releasing or transferring them to a third country."

That's backed up by a fact sheet from the military task force that runs the detention camp, which says 520 detainees had been released or transferred by March 2009.
 
If you go back to pg 3 you'll see my post quoting a White House press conference where Jay Carney discusses the possibility of this deal being made almost a year ago. He also explicitly stated it would never be done, "without consulting with Congress and without doing so in accordance with U.S. law." So yeah the idea was public knowledge, but they did it without Congressional notice or approval after explicitly saying they'd do that first. So, have to disagree with ya.


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Honestly, who cares? I just don't get the outrage. But but, he broke the LAW! Impeach, that is all it is. Fine, do it. If they care so much about it, do it. I hope they would, it would secure the Senate for Democrats in the Fall.

They have been in talks about a deal of this magnitude for at least a year, if not longer. Notifying congress this one last time, wouldn't have changed anything. He doesn't have to get their consent, he doesn't have to receive their council, all he has to do is notify them. Why? I have yet to hear a single reason why that is even in the LAW.

But we all know why, so they can run to Fox News and Drudge and gin up fake outrage.
 

Cloudy

Banned
BpUBPRWIIAALde6.png


lol
 

Saw tons of stuff like this over the past few hours, people instantly flip-flopping now that Faux News changed their coverage to be against it.

Imagine the opposite situation: Berghdahl died in captivity and information comes out that Obama refused to trade the 5 Taliban guys for him. The Right would be out in force calling Obama a traitor to leave our man behind, etc. etc.

Damn Obama.
 

Elija2

Member
What about the multitude of people who wanted him to be rescued but now have decided he's a "traitor" and that the Obama administration is lying by calling him a hero. Quite a few republicans have been caught deleting past tweets so they can jump on the "fuck Bowe Berghdahl" bandwagon.

Did all of those people know that Bowe is a potential traitor back when they were calling for his rescue? Would all of those people have been okay with the rescue if it weren't in exchange for five high-risk terrorists? Yeah, I know that many of them are just looking for another reason to hate Obama but that doesn't mean that their complaints of the negotiation are wrong.
 

Nvzman

Member
Did all of those people know that Bowe is a potential traitor back when they were calling for his rescue? Would all of those people have been okay with the rescue if it weren't in exchange for five high-risk terrorists? Yeah, I know that many of them are just looking for another reason to hate Obama but that doesn't mean that their complaints of the negotiation are wrong.
Yeah, this whole "oh everyone was supporting him, no one is!" thing isn't even close to true.
The details of the Berghdahl just deserting his crew was only known recently. Actually, the other people in his squad when this event occurred were supposedly told back then to not publicly speak about it, and only when his release came into fruition they were allowed to speak of it.
 

Cloudy

Banned
Yeah, this whole "oh everyone was supporting him, no one is!" thing isn't even close to true.
The details of the Berghdahl just deserting his crew was only known recently. Actually, the other people in his squad when this event occurred were supposedly told back then to not publicly speak about it, and only when his release came into fruition they were allowed to speak of it.

I don't think that justifies a complete 180 unless you can use the details to attack your political opponents
 

Cloudy

Banned
Trade aside, I want them to investigate this fully. Not half assed because we traded five for one.

Investigate what exactly? Outside of the details of Bergdhal's capture (which only he can speak on), it's pretty obvious what happened.

The administration didn't give the 30 days notice cos they knew it'd turn into a political shitshow just like this and possibly make it harder or impossible to do the trade. They naively thought the pro-military GOP wouldn't savage one of their own who's suffered enough already but they underestimated the hatred some people have of Obama and everything he represents.
 
So I guess the same right wingers who wanted this soldier returned, now would have preferred him stay a POW? I find their hypocrisy boring and those who enable it disgusting.
 

Mr. RPG

Member
Guy spent almost 5 years as prisoner with the Taliban.

Give him some slack okay.

How would you like to be a prisoner of war with the Taliban for that long?
 
Yeah, this whole "oh everyone was supporting him, no one is!" thing isn't even close to true.
The details of the Berghdahl just deserting his crew was only known recently
. Actually, the other people in his squad when this event occurred were supposedly told back then to not publicly speak about it, and only when his release came into fruition they were allowed to speak of it.

Bullshit, the possible desertion has been known since 2012 publicly. Actually read the rolling stones piece and it was clear it was know much earlier to those in congress and in government.
 

ISOM

Member
I'm glad the GOP tactics of hypocrisy and lies in this case is getting the attention it deserves. This is about as clear political opportunism as it gets and it's disgusting.
 

Wilsongt

Member
Again, all right wing outrage in the last 5 years can be summed up in 2 words: Because Obama.

I do hope our children look back on this one day and go "what the fuck were those people thinking?!"
 
5 high ranking Taliban dudes for a deserter at best. Politics aside that's just seems silly. What's even more sad is people that died trying to find him. I don't care about democrats v republicans etc. But we we really got to think these things through cause this is not a black and white situation. This whole thing is very odd for sure.

The Taliban doesn't have a track record of holding anyone even close to that long apparently. I really would be curious to know what was going on over there.
 
D

Deleted member 13876

Unconfirmed Member
Really isn't anything to be studied, its Faux News and hatred of Obama. They do this all the time.

There has to be an underlying psychological mechanism that fosters the 180s and I wonder how these people will justify this to themselves when confronted with their hypocrisy. Probably makes them dig their heels in deeper unfortunately.
 
For what it's worth guys, on point raised a lot of criticism this morning too... Yknow, progressive liberal npr on point with tom ashbrook. It made me second guess my previous opinion (that the Pentagon should be able to act without congress in these matters and that the commander in chief has one responsibility)

It's not only fox news... Unless you think fox is informing NPR...
 

hiroshawn

Banned
Guy spent almost 5 years as prisoner with the Taliban.

Give him some slack okay.

How would you like to be a prisoner of war with the Taliban for that long?

Slack? Hah he is a traitor. He left the FOB willingly. I know guys that were tasked with searching for him after he left. They all say he's a POS. He was helping the Taliban that's why he lived for so long.
 
For what it's worth guys, on point raised a lot of criticism this morning too... Yknow, progressive liberal npr on point with tom ashbrook. It made me second guess my previous opinion (that the Pentagon should be able to act without congress in these matters and that the commander in chief has one responsibility)

It's not only fox news... Unless you think fox is informing NPR...

No doubt, there is criticism to be had. Plenty of it, but how about we allow a small amount of time to go by before we start calling for the impeachment of Obama, calling the soldier a traitor, etc.

Slack? Hah he is a traitor. He left the FOB willingly. I know guys that were tasked with searching for him after he left. They all say he's a POS. He was helping the Taliban that's why he lived for so long.

Like this guy.

Deserter/traitor, still should be recovered. He is a soldier and we shouldn't leave them behind. Bring him to justice if you want.
 

Cloudy

Banned
Very good Chris Hayes segment

http://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/what-the-bergdahl-outrage-is-really-about-273862211633

Best article I've read about this whole fiasco

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...c09-11e3-9f5c-9075d5508f0a_story.html?hpid=z3

Obama made a bit of a fool of himself by treating Bergdahl’s impending return as appropriate for Rose Garden celebration, complete with grateful parents, even though he knew, or easily should have known, that Bergdahl is hardly a hero.

That attempt to gin up an election-year feel-good story fell flat, as did national security adviser Susan Rice’s clueless depiction of Bergdahl’s Army career as one of “honor and distinction.”

White House efforts to glorify Bergdahl were matched by the right’s efforts to demonize him. He stands accused of desertion, which is indeed a very serious offense. Convicting him of it under military law requires proof, which we don’t yet have, that he intended to leave his unit for good or sought to avoid a hazardous assignment.

Nor is it proved, despite what you may have heard, that Bergdahl’s going AWOL directly or indirectly caused the deaths of six soldiers sent to look for him, though the search certainly imposed costs and risks on the Army and its troops. Never mind: According to Fox News’s Bill O’Reilly, “There is compelling evidence that the sergeant violated military law and may have even collaborated with the enemy.”

I know of no mathematical formula that can determine whether freeing five dangerous enemies of the United States was too high a price to get this one soldier back, any more than I can figure out what Obama’s critics think he should have done about Bergdahl — let him rot forever in Taliban custody?

My only issue with the piece is that the WH didn't try to glorify him as much as they tried to highlight a positive development
 
It kinda does, god blessed america they got his son back

I dont know his fathers history but dude looks like he chilled with the Taliban more than his son, did you see that beard?. I expected his son to look like that, he looked all groomed up heading into the blackhawk.

Is there a difference between a regular beard and ah... a "Taliban beard"?
 

Cat Party

Member
It's just really disgusting to me that the release of one of our POWs is being used for political purposes. This attitude that is is wrong to trade for one of our guys would have been unheard of even 15 years ago.
 
It's just really disgusting to me that the release of one of our POWs is being used for political purposes. This attitude that is is wrong to trade for one of our guys would have been unheard of even 15 years ago.

Politics has changed so much since Obama got elected. As soon as we elected a black man into the oval office people lost their collective shit. Get the man home, after we learn everything then people can go all hyper-partisan.
 

Cat Party

Member
Politics has changed so much since Obama got elected. As soon as we elected a black man into the oval office people lost their collective shit. Get the man home, after we learn everything then people can go all hyper-partisan.

Disagree that the change stems from Obama's election. The fanaticism of the right has been building steadily for a long time. I'm not sure if you can really pin it on one thing. The Swift Boat campaign was 4 years before Obama, for example.
 
Disagree that the change stems from Obama's election. The fanaticism of the right has been building steadily for a long time. I'm not sure if you can really pin it on one thing. The Swift Boat campaign was 4 years before Obama, for example.

I'm not saying that the a change didn't occur before Obama, but you are kidding yourself if you think the scene hasn't fundamentally changed. It has been progressing for some time, but the swift boating campaign is nothing like the vitriol that has been tossed out against Obama.
 
I think this guy has suffered enough to be honest, even if he did abandon his post I'd have thought being held hostage for five years by the Taliban is punishment enough. Every time he was led into a room with a camera set up he must have thought he was about to be beheaded, torture in itself.
 
WASHINGTON (AP) — The Obama administration has told senators it didn't notify Congress about the pending swap of Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl for five Taliban officials because the Taliban had threatened to kill him if the deal was made public before it happened. That's according to three congressional officials who spoke to The Associated Press.

The officials said Thursday that the threat — not just concerns that the captive's health might be failing —drove the Obama administration to quickly make a deal to rescue Bergdahl. The threat had been transmitted by Qatari officials at the height of the negotiations.

Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel was referring in part to the threat when he said Sunday that "there was a question about his safety," the officials told the senators in a closed-door briefing on Wednesday.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/officials-say-threat-to-bergdahl-led-to-action

I wonder how long until evidence to the contrary emerges.
 

Velcro Fly

Member
It's just really disgusting to me that the release of one of our POWs is being used for political purposes. This attitude that is is wrong to trade for one of our guys would have been unheard of even 15 years ago.

Both sides are doing it. If you believe Susan Rice we just rescued an American hero! If you believe the GOP we just let loose five guys worse than Osama bin Ladin. It's ridiculous to think only one side is doing it.
 
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