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Buy/Sell/Trade Thread 2015 Part 3 | Read the OP, and Prepare to Buy

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bigzgod

Member
That being said, this feedback is up for discussion. I think we all know that BernardoOne is a good seller overall. He does provide the codes he sells, but the problem is that he sometimes takes 48 hours+ to do so. This is an established problem and has happened on and off for a while now.

Of course, Negative feedback is also a huge deal and it's not something we take lightly. That's why I'm opening it up for discussion. At the same time though, changing someone's feedback/not leaving it, is also something that we don't take lightly. I don't want to create a precedent of erasing feedback, just because someone has historically been a good seller. Assuming elproducto is not willing to change the feedback, then we need to make a final decision collectively.

I know my opinion doesn't mean much but for digital codes, I've never seen a major trading site allowing someone to trade for items the seller doesn't have on hand unless the seller is buying immediately on demand and the trade commences almost immediately. It offers zero benefits to the buyer and puts all the risk on the buyer. If the seller can't acquire the game, then the buyer is screwed, even if they get a refund. Ultimately, their time was wasted and they still didn't get what they were seeking in the first place. This is all assuming there is no malicious intent, of course, since allowing that much of a time delay in sending the digital key increases the likelihood of multiple people being scammed before the ruse is discovered.

BernardOne seems like a reputable seller with no ill intentions. That being said, policy shouldn't give exceptions to one individual, it should be implemented without bias and think of the larger community in general.

At the bare minimum, I think disclosure should be required. Items that aren't immediately on hand should be noted as such and the buyer should be made aware that delays are possible, assuming they are able to get stock. If the buyer is comfortable with those terms and the potential for not receiving the key at all (and thus being refunded later), then that's their prerogative.
 

Soulflarz

Banned
At the bare minimum, I think disclosure should be required. Items that aren't immediately on hand should be noted as such and the buyer should be made aware that delays are possible, assuming they are able to get stock. If the buyer is comfortable with those terms and the potential for not receiving the key at all (and thus being refunded later), then that's their prerogative.

This
Since Bernardo has had probably a ridiculous amount of money pass through his hands, it's easy to say hes not trying to scam anyone of money, but for the sake of people having random unexpected delays, I think noting *may take half a week for the following codes* or something would be nice.
 
I know my opinion doesn't mean much but for digital codes, I've never seen a major trading site allowing someone to trade for items the seller doesn't have on hand unless the seller is buying immediately on demand and the trade commences almost immediately. It offers zero benefits to the buyer and puts all the risk on the buyer. If the seller can't acquire the game, then the buyer is screwed, even if they get a refund. Ultimately, their time was wasted and they still didn't get what they were seeking in the first place. This is all assuming there is no malicious intent, of course, since allowing that much of a time delay in sending the digital key increases the likelihood of multiple people being scammed before the ruse is discovered.

BernardOne seems like a reputable seller with no ill intentions. That being said, policy shouldn't give exceptions to one individual, it should be implemented without bias and think of the larger community in general.

At the bare minimum, I think disclosure should be required. Items that aren't immediately on hand should be noted as such and the buyer should be made aware that delays are possible, assuming they are able to get stock. If the buyer is comfortable with those terms and the potential for not receiving the key at all (and thus being refunded later), then that's their prerogative.

Since we're community moderated, all transactions and timelines need to be haggled out in PMs. We can't require anyone to list a disclaimer about their materials or require they publicly list how long it will take.

As a buyer, you need to establish that timeline privately. If the other party doesn't disclose how long it will take and/or violates that agreement, we'll have a chain of information to follow for posting negative feedback. I'm not for any public disclosures, but you must do your due diligence via PMs.

This
Since Bernardo has had probably a ridiculous amount of money pass through his hands, it's easy to say hes not trying to scam anyone of money, but for the sake of people having random unexpected delays, I think noting *may take half a week for the following codes* or something would be nice.

I think the below message addresses this one. I'm against disclosures - just don't list things you don't have. That makes sense on a universal level, not just for a particular buyer.

With that said, if you don't have something in hand, don't list it as available. People assume this thread is a list of currently available merchandise, and it's both disingenuous and frustrating for lists to reflect less than accurate stock.
 

Golgo 13

The Man With The Golden Dong
I don't understand what you're saying, Clogger. Someone left BernardoOne negative feedback and now you're considering retracting it, or discussing the possibility of retracting it because he otherwise has a good history as a seller?

If so, that's a dangerous precedent to set -- the feedback system is there for a reason, and that reason is to assure everyone treats everyone else fairly and there's mutually enjoyable transactions occurring. Negative feedback is negative feedback and should remain forever, period. Bending the rules for one person completely discredits the entire system.
 
I don't understand what you're saying, Clogger. Someone left BernardoOne negative feedback and now you're considering retracting it, or discussing the possibility of retracting it because he otherwise has a good history as a seller?

If so, that's a dangerous precedent to set -- the feedback system is there for a reason, and that reason is to assure everyone treats everyone else fairly and there's mutually enjoyable transactions occurring. Negative feedback is negative feedback and should remain forever, period. Bending the rules for one person completely discredits the entire system.

Read through the history of the situation - if I understand it correctly, the negative feedback can be updated based on the desire of the buyer and if the deal was eventually concluded. It's in the hands of the buyer, and Clogger is ensuring all is correct. Nothing will be changed arbitrarily, and we've had a few of these situations in the past.
 
I don't understand what you're saying, Clogger. Someone left BernardoOne negative feedback and now you're considering retracting it, or discussing the possibility of retracting it because he otherwise has a good history as a seller?

If so, that's a dangerous precedent to set -- the feedback system is there for a reason, and that reason is to assure everyone treats everyone else fairly and there's mutually enjoyable transactions occurring. Negative feedback is negative feedback and should remain forever, period. Bending the rules for one person completely discredits the entire system.

Read through the history of the situation - if I understand it correctly, the negative feedback can be updated based on the desire of the buyer and if the deal was eventually concluded. It's in the hands of the buyer, and Clogger is ensuring all is correct. Nothing will be changed arbitrarily, and we've had a few of these situations in the past.

In the past, we have historically brought up "controversial feedback" for community discussion. I think this is important, because we have had situations in the past where someone has left Negative feedback and it really wasn't warranted at all. Due to how harmful Negative feedback can be, we try to moderate this where possible. Now, the Feedback staff could just make these decisions in private, but I'm all about transparency in these kind of situations. I actually work in the Internal Audit field, so that kind of stuff really bothers me.

The only reason that I am placing this feedback up for discussion is that, if you go back and read the posts on that page, it appears that elproducto did receive a refund. Now, as other users have already mentioned, just the fact that his time was wasted could probably still be enough for Negative. I'm completely cognizant of that fact and, honestly, I agree with it. Nonetheless, since there could still be some controversy, I wanted to put it up for discussion. This really had nothing to do with Bernardo's previous history and I'm sorry if that's what seemed to be implied in my original post. It's going to take an overwhelming majority of people disagreeing with the feedback for us to actually change it.

Edit: Going back and reading my original post, it's kind of easy to see how people would have thought that we were having this discussion JUST because of Bernardo's history of good feedback. That's my mistake and I did a poor job of explaining myself.
 
As a seller. Definitely not feeling the ability to isolate negative feedback. Kinda defeats the purpose.

Isolate negative feedback?


Also, we had Negative feedback left for another user and it wasn't brought up for discussion. Again though, that had nothing to do with the user, and everything to do with the situation.
 

bigzgod

Member
I think the below message addresses this one. I'm against disclosures - just don't list things you don't have. That makes sense on a universal level, not just for a particular buyer.

With that said, if you don't have something in hand, don't list it as available. People assume this thread is a list of currently available merchandise, and it's both disingenuous and frustrating for lists to reflect less than accurate stock.

I actually would prefer this over disclosure. I'm not a fan at all of selling items you don't have on hand and I'd much rather it not be allowed in general.

I just listed disclosure as a possible solution if the community wanted to keep allowing selling of items that aren't immediately on hand. I don't think it's fair for all the burden to be placed on the buyer to do due diligence when it can be argued that the expectation is that everything listed is currently available. For the average buyer, there rarely is any investigation into the seller outside of cursory reputation checks and thus it becomes the responsibility of the community to set boundaries and rules to protect from malfeasance. While it's not ideal and in a better community, everyone would do their due diligence, that simply isn't the case the majority of the time.
 
I actually would prefer this over disclosure. I'm not a fan at all of selling items you don't have on hand and I'd much rather it not be allowed in general.

I just listed disclosure as a possible solution if the community wanted to keep allowing selling of items that aren't immediately on hand. I don't think it's fair for all the burden to be placed on the buyer to do due diligence when it can be argued that the expectation is that everything listed is currently available. For the average buyer, there rarely is any investigation into the seller outside of cursory reputation checks and thus it becomes the responsibility of the community to set boundaries and rules to protect from malfeasance. While it's not ideal and in a better community, everyone would do their due diligence, that simply isn't the case the majority of the time.

I think that disclosure should be an option, but I in no way think that it should be required. We have had multiple people request that we add a note to Bernardo's feedback, stating that it might take him a while to deliver a code. That's just not something we are going to do though, as we would basically be directly influencing buyers at that point.

Now, if Bernardo/anyone else wants to put out that disclaimer, then I don't see a problem with that. As long as the buyer is aware of what they're getting into. I agree with you though, in that I'm not a big fan of placing all of the responsibility on the Buyer.

If no disclaimer is given, then the Seller, in my opinion, should potentially be held responsible with feedback.
 
damn phone typos.

isolate=resolve

Haha, that's what I figured you meant.

Again, just to be clear, we aren't planning to just ignore Negative feedback willy nilly. AT ALL. At the same time though, because of how important it is, there are times when certain feedback should be discussed in the community. No decisions made in private.

And again, there hasn't been even one argument for changing the feedback yet, so, as of now, it's not getting changed.
 
So yes, he refunded my money. But the entire transaction was a negative one, I won't deal with him again.

He says he had "family issues" to deal with which was why he didn't send the key or respond to my pm's. He didn't' elaborate and that's fine... his business, but when I check his activity and he's posting multiple times during the 2 days I was waiting for my key... I feel like he really just didn't give a s#$% about the 32 bucks he had of mine. Sending a key is a hell of a lot faster than reading a thread, and posting something on it. I wonder if he even had the keys.

Like I said before, I have 3 kids and understand people get busy. I've sold NVIDIA keys myself, and no matter how busy I was I sent a quick pm to the buyer if I was at work or something and couldn't send the key right away. Communication is the key, if he had told me it would be another day or so, I would have said thanks! I'll get it somewhere else then. I've been buying and selling things on the internet for a long time, and this was a negative experience.

I think potential buyers should be aware that he has done this to a few people. I'm happy to include a caveat that the problem was resolved, but nonetheless it was a problem.

I also received no positive feedback as a buyer, even though I sent him the money how he asked and in a timely manner.
 
So yes, he refunded my money. But the entire transaction was a negative one, I won't deal with him again.

He says he had "family issues" to deal with which was why he didn't send the key or respond to my pm's. He didn't' elaborate and that's fine... his business, but when I check his activity and he's posting multiple times during the 2 days I was waiting for my key... I feel like he really just didn't give a s#$% about the 32 bucks he had of mine. Sending a key is a hell of a lot faster than reading a thread, and posting something on it. I wonder if he even had the keys.

Like I said before, I have 3 kids and understand people get busy. I've sold NVIDIA keys myself, and no matter how busy I was I sent a quick pm to the buyer if I was at work or something and couldn't send the key right away. Communication is the key, if he had told me it would be another day or so, I would have said thanks! I'll get it somewhere else then. I've been buying and selling things on the internet for a long time, and this was a negative experience.

I think potential buyers should be aware that he has done this to a few people. I'm happy to include a caveat that the problem was resolved, but nonetheless it was a problem.

I also received no positive feedback as a buyer, even though I sent him the money how he asked and in a timely manner.

Thanks for the post. Again, I'm sorry you had so much trouble.
 
Thanks for the post. Again, I'm sorry you had so much trouble.
No problem clogger, I appreciate what you are doing. I didn't pm you back, because I think it's important for discussion.

Also, if other people think I'm wrong I'm happy to discuss and look at my decision. After all, I'm really just a newbie and a passerby here. I belong to another online community, where we police each other so I totally respect the process.

I'm also sure Bernardo is a great person, he certainly wasn't rude or anything.
 
WTB:
Yo-Kai Watch 'NYCC 2015 Jibanyan Medal'

I can do PayPal. If you have a spare that you don't need and are willing to part with for a reasonable price, please PM me. I am based in Australia and my only option at this point in time is to accept eBay sellers' price gouging.
 

BiggNife

Member
Reposting from earlier in the week, the Roku stick was sold but everything else is still up for grabs. I'm in NJ so I would greatly prefer shipping within the US, if possible.

Lucina amiibo (EU) - $23 shipped. Unopened. Reminder that amiibos are region free.

q2ZORRi.jpg

Batman Arkham Knight PS4 - $24 shipped. Cellophane has been removed but game has never been played and disc is in mint condition (I only opened it to confirm which DLC vouchers it had). Includes the following unredeemed DLC codes, all of which don't expire until 2025:

-Scarecrow Nightmare Missions
-Exclusive Playstation Skins (Justice League 3000 and Batman 66)
-Harley Quinn Story Pack (pre order bonus, no longer ships with the game)


PSTV with P4G, Lumines, and 8MB Memory card - $40 shipped. Only used a handful of times. The memory card (which has been formatted) normally goes for $20 by itself and P4G is $20 retail so you'd be saving quite a bit getting these all together.


PM if interested. Thanks!
 

Sheik

Member
SELLING

2 1 x Rocket League (Steam Gift)

$11 USD each or $20 for both via Paypal gift

or

would trade for Witcher 3

and

1 x StarMade (Steam Gift)

$7.50 USD
 

Palom

Member
Want to Sell: (+9 Feedback)

Elgato Game Capture HD60 - $120 shipped
Used for about 4 months, and it's still in excellent shape.

I'll take PayPal (gift or buyer covers fees) or Amazon gifts as payment.

Want to Buy: (+4 Feedback)
(complete, in good shape)

PS2 Ar tonelico 1 and 2
PS2 Dark Cloud 2
PS2 Dawn of Mana
PS2 Grandia III
PS2 Outrun 2006
PS2 Shadow Hearts From the New World
PS2 Shining Force EXA
PS2 Shining Tears
PS2 Xenosaga Ep III
PS3 Fairy Fencer F
PS3 Trinity Universe
360 Infinite Undiscovery
360 Magna Carta 2
PSV Hyperdimension Neptunia U
PS4 Omega Quintet
PS4 Ultra Street Fighter IV digital code

I would also be interested in buying Amazon or PSN credit at 80% value.
 

steveovig

Member
FS:Everything is complete and shipped, unless noted

Metal Gear Anthology-PS2-$42
Die Hard Arcade-Saturn-$45
Fighters Megamix-Saturn-$23
Conker's Bad Fur Day-N64-cart and manual only-$90 OBO
Karnaaj Rally-Sealed GBA w/dented bottom of box-$10
Smash Bros Brawl-Wii-$20
 
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