Support NeoGAF

[jett]

Yep, this is what I was saying. There are just so many different components to this game, and to write and record music of quality as high as everything else on the score would be a massive undertaking for a composer.

I have no doubt Oscar Araujo made his choices based on artistic reasons and not budgetary constraints like you're suggesting. Listening to right now and I have to revise my opinion: the score is of supremely high quality. Superb arranging, recording and performances. Just a couple more different themes here and there, is all I could use.

 

[brandonh83]

Not suggesting it's budgetary restraints. I'm suggesting that it would be fucking hard and take a really long fucking time to do. :lol

Again, film composers frequently have a hell of a time getting a score out for a 2 hour film. This is a 15-20 hour game. Having a supreme shitload of music of this high of quality that accounts for most of the content in the game is incredibly impractical. There's no way around it. It would be insane.

 

[luka]

I'd really love to see a kind of hybrid synth/orchestral soundtrack in a game like this. I have the Akumajo Dracula Best albums and they kind of mix in random ambient effects and some live instrumentation on top of the old chiptune and it sounds incredibly cool. There is so much room to get really creative here and it seems like a waste to just pump out more generic Howard Shore inspired stuff.

The majority of the soundtrack is absolutely fantastic though. It's only the frequent action/battle music that gets drowned in incessant chorales that bother me.

 

[brandonh83]

I'd really love to see a kind of hybrid synth/orchestral soundtrack in a game like this. I have the Akumajo Dracula Best albums and they kind of mix in random ambient effects and some live instrumentation on top of the old chiptune and it sounds incredibly cool. There is so much room to get really creative here and it seems like a waste to just pump out more generic Howard Shore inspired stuff.

The music in this game doesn't seem terribly inspired by Howard Shore's LOTR music to me. Of course, since Shore, and Lord of the Rings, basically turned out high-quality fantasy, everything else that comes after is going to be a "generic ripoff" no matter what.

In all actuality, the music in this game doesn't sound like a ripoff to me at all. I listen to the LOTR scores frequently, I have both the standard and extended versions of the scores and the music in Lords of Shadow sounds nothing like it.

You may get that it does because they use similar instrumentation, but the actual compositions and choir usage are nothing like Lord of the Rings whatsoever.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Not suggesting it's budgetary restraints. I'm suggesting that it would be fucking hard and take a really long fucking time to do. :lol

Again, film composers frequently have a hell of a time getting a score out for a 2 hour film. This is a 15-20 hour game. Having a supreme shitload of music of this high of quality that accounts for most of the content in the game is incredibly impractical. There's no way around it. It would be insane.

This is pretty much the first time where you've defended the game where it's looked like blatant apologism to me. This is the video game industry, not the film industry. People do soundtracks for 20+ hour games all the time. Maybe they don't rent the orchestra to record them, but the compositions are just as good as this, and quite often better. If you need an example badly, I'll throw Dragon Quest 8 out there as an example of a considerably longer game with a fully orchestrated soundtrack whose composition is (to be extremely kind to LoS) at least equal to this.

I've no doubt this was a stylistic choice as opposed to a choice of logistics. I've no doubt Oscar could have written a full score for this game, but they wanted to go with the more movie-ish ambient stuff. I don't like that. Compared to the rest of the series, this game easily has the worst soundtrack, and it's not for lack of talent on the composer's part. It's because they chose to follow the pack instead of being true to the franchise.

 

[brandonh83]

Dragon Quest VIII? Yeah, I think this is one of those conversations that won't go anywhere. :lol

And it's not apologism but think what you will I suppose.

 

[luka]

The music in this game doesn't seem terribly inspired by Howard Shore's LOTR music to me. Of course, since Shore, and Lord of the Rings, basically turned out high-quality fantasy, everything else that comes after is going to be a "generic ripoff" no matter what.

In all actuality, the music in this game doesn't sound like a ripoff to me at all. I listen to the LOTR scores frequently, I have both the standard and extended versions of the scores and the music in Lords of Shadow sounds nothing like it.

You may get that it does because they use similar instrumentation, but the actual compositions and choir usage are nothing like Lord of the Rings whatsoever.

Yeah, I didn't mean it quite like that. The problem is that the majority of it is very subtle and unpronounced. It kind of blends into the environment and you really have to pay attention to appreciate it. The action music as I said is the only real offender to my ears. It's just saturated by loud choir sounds and drowns out everything else, so it's easy to overlook the actual melodic arrangement which is actually pretty fantastic. I think it would benefit immeasurably by cutting down on the choir use. It always strikes me as a cop-out way to make any scene feel more 'epic.'

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Dragon Quest VIII? Yeah, I think this is one of those conversations that won't go anywhere. :lol

And it's not apologism but think what you will I suppose.

If you're laughing at the notion that Dragon Quest VIII has a great orchestrated soundtrack, then yes, this is going to go nowhere. I think I may have had you figured wrong. Disappointing.

 

[flintstryker]

Dragon Quest VIII? Yeah, I think this is one of those conversations that won't go anywhere. :lol

And it's not apologism but think what you will I suppose.

Whats so funny?

 

[brandonh83]

If you're laughing at the notion that Dragon Quest VIII has a great orchestrated soundtrack, then yes, this is going to go nowhere. I think I may have had you figured wrong. Disappointing.

I think it has a good soundtrack, but I don't think the actual quality of the recordings, or depth, of that soundtrack matches this.

Whats so funny?

Why so serious?

 

[thetrin]

This is pretty much the first time where you've defended the game where it's looked like blatant apologism to me. This is the video game industry, not the film industry. People do soundtracks for 20+ hour games all the time. Maybe they don't rent the orchestra to record them, but the compositions are just as good as this, and quite often better. If you need an example badly, I'll throw Dragon Quest 8 out there as an example of a considerably longer game with a fully orchestrated soundtrack whose composition is (to be extremely kind to LoS) at least equal to this.

I've no doubt this was a stylistic choice as opposed to a choice of logistics. I've no doubt Oscar could have written a full score for this game, but they wanted to go with the more movie-ish ambient stuff. I don't like that. Compared to the rest of the series, this game easily has the worst soundtrack, and it's not for lack of talent on the composer's part. It's because they chose to follow the pack instead of being true to the franchise.

LoS has a very weak soundtrack. It's my least favorite part of the game, to be sure.

 

[jett]

If you're laughing at the notion that Dragon Quest VIII has a great orchestrated soundtrack, then yes, this is going to go nowhere. I think I may have had you figured wrong. Disappointing.

To be to fair to Brandon the original DQ8 soundtrack is your regular video game sequenced music. The american version having been released much later used music from an already released arranged CD. Koichi Sugiyama's compositions while lovely are also on the simple side, making the orchestral arrangements of much less complexity than LoS, too.

To be honest I'm not exactly sure what is Brandon arguing here, I think he's a bit mixed up. You too. Length of a game does not dictate length or quality of a soundtrack. The DQ7 soundtrack is only 72 minutes long, while the game lasts a good 120 hours.

Oscar Araujo probably composed and recorded at least a few hours of music. The direction the soundtrack goes in is just an artistic decision, period.

 

[LiK]

LoS has a very weak soundtrack. It's my least favorite part of the game, to be sure.

definitely a lil too subdued. there's a few tracks i like but i wish there were more memorable ones.

 

[Oblivionmancer]

Just finished, liked the game overall pretty well. Though the ending had me rolling my eyes and raging at the screen by turns.

Spoiler

Took all the sex appeal of the castlevania setting, all that history, and replaced it with something cheesy and bland. Just my opinion of course. It comes off, in the end, less like a 'reboot' and more like a really mercenary decision to slap the name on a game with a somewhat similar aesthetic, sprinkle on some familiar cues, and call it castlevania. The final encounter was silly and emblematic of the above complaints, but it was (I guess) basically contained within the confines of this particular plot. Then the essential after-da-credits cut-scene rolls and slathers a nice coat of what the hell all over this 'reimagined' castlevania timeline.

<--Just my general opinion in here, nothing super specific. Definitely think the game peaked with the middle third (in terms of chapters) for me, definitely when it was the most in line with castlevania of yore. Or, like, last year. Anyway, I wouldn't say no to a sequel, as long as it has a little more to do with the trappings this series has always been known for. And fewer

Spoiler

zero

bosses that regenerate half their health when you screw up a stupid qte.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

To be to fair to Brandon the original DQ8 soundtrack is your regular video game sequenced music. The american version having been released much later used music from an already released arranged CD. Koichi Sugiyama's compositions while lovely are also on the simple side, making the orchestral arrangements of much less complexity than LoS, too.

To be honest I'm not exactly sure what is Brandon arguing here, I think he's a bit mixed up. You too. Length of a game does not dictate length or quality of a soundtrack. The DQ7 soundtrack is only 72 minutes long, while the game lasts a good 120 hours.

Oscar Araujo probably composed and recorded at least a few hours of music. The direction the soundtrack goes in is just an artistic decision, period.

Sugiyama always composes the music for Dragon Quest games with an orchestra first, then knocks it down to whatever tech limitations he's working with. If the US DQ8 doesn't work, substitute DQ5 PS2 instead. That one has a better recording anyway.

I'm not mixed up at all, here. I'm just saying it's not impossible to create a game soundtrack for a long game. The reason this one has a subdued score is not a limitation borne from the length of the game, it's a stylistic choice. A bad one, in my opinion.

 

[brandonh83]

To be honest I'm not exactly sure what is Brandon arguing here, I think he's a bit mixed up.

I'll explain then. I'm saying that writing music for every single level in the game-- giving every stage, cutscene, battle, etc. its own track with consistently high quality would be an incredibly demanding undertaking.

My initial point of discussion was that some people are underwhelmed with how the score is implemented throughout the game, rather than the actual music. I don't think anyone believes the music itself is bad and if they do I don't want to associate myself with them BUT when it comes to integration within the game, it's not very good.

For long periods of time, you get the same couple of tunes, and sometimes, the music just flat out stops playing. That's the biggest offender. There's simply not enough music written for the game to keep things jammin' through the duration of the title-- and I understand why.

Just because I understand it, though, does not mean that I like it. No. The game needed more music, plain and simple.

 

[-tetsuo-]

Dragon Quest VIII? Yeah, I think this is one of those conversations that won't go anywhere. :lol

And it's not apologism but think what you will I suppose.

Dragon Quest 8 soundtrack is classic.

 

[brandonh83]

Dragon Quest 8 soundtrack is classic.

And I said otherwise... where? :lol

 

[owlbeak]

LoS has a very weak soundtrack. It's my least favorite part of the game, to be sure.

Surely you jest! I really enjoyed it, even if it's low-key, it's beautifully composed. Also, the rewrites of some of the songs from previous games were really well done (Waterfalls of Agharta, based off The Waterfalls music from Castlevania IV).

 

[john tv]

Chapter 10 is seriously pissing me off. I wish this spent more time on game balance - it's so uneven at times. Lots of WTF design choices in this game that really dampen the experience. :/

 

[Blast Processing]

I just finished 10, myself. I had to stop for the night after that... Really aggravated at a couple of spots, there.

 

[thetrin]

Chapter 10 is seriously pissing me off. I wish this spent more time on game balance - it's so uneven at times. Lots of WTF design choices in this game that really dampen the experience. :/

Chapter 10 is really weak, especially Chapter 8 and 9, which were euphoric.

Titan Graveyard is basically the worst level in the game. Fire Pinnacle and Crematory Oven are fun though.

Surely you jest! I really enjoyed it, even if it's low-key, it's beautifully composed. Also, the rewrites of some of the songs from previous games were really well done (Waterfalls of Agharta, based off The Waterfalls music from Castlevania IV).

It's okay. It lacks the iconic melodies of past CV games. I found most of it forgettable.

 

[jett]

Ah the Titan Graveyard. Just thinking about it is pain. Sometimes it seems this game didn't go through proper Q&A.

 

[-tetsuo-]

What was so bad about Titan Graveyard? I Literally jut finished it :lol

 

[WickedLaharl]

the first time you have to fight skeleton knights is pretty ridiculous what with their whirlwind attack in a tiny ass room.

other things that annoy me is how much you have to use a mount to advance. that there is always one conveniently around to help annoys me. oh and i love how they respawn should you fuck up.

complaints aside i'm enjoying myself (although occasionally i'll start feeling ill because of the FR. nothing that a lil break can't fix).

the music and atmosphere is really great. the combat mechanics are decent but it seems to me that many moves are near impossible to pull off without getting hit. really i'd like to have been given an in-air dodge.

the puzzles are alright but a little too far on the easy side.

 

[-tetsuo-]

the first time you have to fight skeleton knights is pretty ridiculous what with their whirlwind attack in a tiny ass room.

other things that annoy me is how much you have to use a mount to advance. that there is always one conveniently around to help annoys me. oh and i love how they respawn should you fuck up.

complaints aside i'm enjoying myself (although occasionally i'll start feeling ill because of the FR. nothing that a lil break can't fix).

the music and atmosphere is really great. the combat mechanics are decent but it seems to me that many moves are near impossible to pull off without getting hit. really i'd like to have been given an in-air dodge.

the puzzles are alright but a little too far on the easy side.

Block + Jump in the air

 

[jett]

What was so bad about Titan Graveyard? I Literally jut finished it :lol

Maybe you were lucky but what I remember is horrible, awful platforming that resulted in me falling to the poisonous bog several times. Or falling to the bog while walking around because the game fails to properly indicate how far you can walk on land, I especially enjoyed falling in places where there's no way to climb out of. :lol And not to mention especially awful checkpoints that make you backtrack a decent amount should you die. It should be noted that falling into the bog while far away from land will either kill or leave you in poor health, which might as well be death with those annoying coffin enemies around. I can safely say I don't care for anything Titan-related in this game.

 

[john tv]

Titan Graveyard is basically the worst level in the game. Fire Pinnacle and Crematory Oven are fun though.

It seriously was the worst level yet. Horrible, horrible design.

Kind of amusing how Patrick Stewart sounds like he wants to kill himself at this point tho.

 

[-tetsuo-]

Maybe you were lucky but what I remember is horrible, awful platforming that resulted in me falling to the poisonous bog several times. Or falling to the bog while walking around because the game fails to properly indicate how far you can walk on land, I especially enjoyed falling in places where there's no way to climb out of. :lol And not to mention especially awful checkpoints that make you backtrack a decent amount should you die. It should be noted that falling into the bog while far away from land will either kill or leave you in poor health, which might as well be death with those annoying coffin enemies around. I can safely say I don't care for anything Titan-related in this game.

O shit I landed in the fog once and didn't die the entire time lol

 

[luka]

I didn't have any problems with the graveyard, but I can see how people would overlook the "dead-end" passage and misinterpret areas that you can actually navigate. Coffins are easy if you have enough holy water.

Kind of amusing how Patrick Stewart sounds like he wants to kill himself at this point tho.

YYYOOOOOUUUUUUU AAAARRRE THE ONE!

 

[jett]

O shit I landed in the fog once and didn't die the entire time lol

Luck you I guess.. Any platforming in this game that requires precise jumping is absolutely dreadful. This game has like like sub-DMC1 jumping controls. That was my experience anyway.

And that is so true about Patrick Stewart. :lol I think I would've preferred the text in the loading screens to be voice-less.

 

[bone_and_sinew]

What was so bad about Titan Graveyard? I Literally jut finished it :lol

Terrible platforming and not knowing where the fuck to go. I understood getting to the skeleton in the alcove in the last area on the right would do something but I had no idea there was a open combat area to the right until an faq told me. The camera zoomed in to tell me to meet the skeleton but unless I was making Gabriel walk into what I thought was a wall in a small cave I had no idea that area was there.
Earlier I also had to backtrack and climb a titan's arm to get to a new area with no indication whatsoever that I was supposed to go there. It wasn't one of the arms that moves, just a random arm. The combat spawns for the last 2 rune pieces don't activate unless you go to the titan, press R2 and then go to the spawns. Which is exacerbated by the horrible platforming in that area. I was wandering around not knowing where the hell to go and had to use a walkthrough because I was legitimately stumped. I had little to no trouble with puzzles in this game or where to go but this level pissed me off.

 

[thetrin]

Titan Graveyard would be a lot better if the camera work hinted a little better where you're supposed to go. It would also be nice if you didn't walk around slowly in the poison bog until you died.

I can safely say I don't care for anything Titan-related in this game.

Even though it's a straight crib of one of my favorite Colossi, the last Titan is fun.

 

[Sidzed2]

After the tepid opening chapters, I was thrilled to find this game ramping up, taking on a more traditional CV flavour, and becoming more and more memorable. From chapters 3 to 9, this game had me hooked and I was ready to declare it my favourite of the year.

But, then, chapters 10, 11, 12 and the epilogue had to come along and dampen things a tad. The final boss in particular was simply lousy, and one of the lesser encounters in the game. From visual, design, and story standpoints, it was quite below par in comparison to the rest of the game which boasted some truly great boss fights.

And the ENDING? Well. Hmmm. Obviously this is not the thread to comment on that. But I don't know if I really care for it.

Overall, though, this is in my top few games of the year. It's right up there with God of War 3, Red Dead Redemption, and Super Mario Galaxy 2. Not perfect, but a pretty great stab at the action-adventure genre by a relatively inexperienced developer.

Bravo, Mercurysteam. All I ask is that, next time, you give us just a tiny bit more of that Castlevania essence.

 

[jett]

Titan Graveyard would be a lot better if the camera work hinted a little better where you're supposed to go. It would also be nice if you didn't walk around slowly in the poison bog until you died.



Even though it's a straight crib of one of my favorite Colossi, the last Titan is fun.

Well I definitely liked it the best, didn't die once at least. But like the others it goes on for too long and ends up overstaying its welcome.

 

[robertsan21]

fuck the haters, this is one awesome game, this is what castlevania should have been from the start one big epic game.

 

[Dascu]

fuck the haters, this is one awesome game, this is what castlevania should have been from the start one big epic game.

The problem is that beneath those layers of fancy visuals and orchestral music, there's a game that is ripe with flaws ranging from terrible camera design to repetitive combat.

 

[luka]

fuck the haters, this is one awesome game, this is what castlevania should have been from the start one big epic game.

Do we really have to go through this in every thread?

The problem is that beneath those layers of fancy visuals and orchestral music, there's a game that is ripe with flaws ranging from terrible camera design to repetitive combat.

Repetition isn't a flaw if it's fun. Gaming is completely and intrinsically based on repetitive acts.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

The problem is that beneath those layers of fancy visuals and orchestral music, there's a game that is ripe with flaws ranging from terrible camera design to repetitive combat.

It's a lot of amateur-style mistakes that can add up to a lot. However, it gives me hope for the next game. Amateur mistakes are usually only made by amateurs, after all.

They even have my pet peeve of having the same action performed by different buttons randomly in QTEs. If it's "tap X rapidly" to kick a warg off me the first time, it should *always* be "tap X rapidly" to kick a warg off me. It's really unintuitive to change that every time, it adds nothing to the challenge, and it just doesn't make sense. I'd prefer if QTEs were gone altogether, but if you're going to use them, study God of War. Study it hard. It's one of the only games that uses QTEs in a least-annoying-as-possible way. Except for the stick QTEs. Fuck that shit.

 

[LiK]

This is one of those polarizing games. Such passion from everyone. I like it

 

[robertsan21]

The problem is that beneath those layers of fancy visuals and orchestral music, there's a game that is ripe with flaws ranging from terrible camera design to repetitive combat.

I do admit that the camera could have been worked on a bit more, but I do not find it so bad that it takes out the fun of the game.

Repetative combat is fine, as long as it is a fun compat system and I do find this battlesystem to be fun.

it also is impressive how they got the mood and setting in this game to be so awesome.

Loving this game Konami.

 

[luka]

It's a lot of amateur-style mistakes that can add up to a lot. However, it gives me hope for the next game. Amateur mistakes are usually only made by amateurs, after all.

They even have my pet peeve of having the same action performed by different buttons randomly in QTEs. If it's "tap X rapidly" to kick a warg off me the first time, it should *always* be "tap X rapidly" to kick a warg off me. It's really unintuitive to change that every time, it adds nothing to the challenge, and it just doesn't make sense. I'd prefer if QTEs were gone altogether, but if you're going to use them, study God of War. Study it hard. It's one of the only games that uses QTEs in a least-annoying-as-possible way. Except for the stick QTEs. Fuck that shit.

I'd say biohazard 4 is the textbook example of how to do QTEs "correctly," but that's probably because there's so few of them and they're usually limited to a single input per cutscene.

 

[Dascu]

The only good QTE is a dead QTE.

 

[nelsonroyale]

Spoiler

Silver knight

looks awesome

 

[luka]

The only good QTE is a dead QTE.

It was a fun experiment back then (what was the first game to use it, Shenmue?), but it's gotten bloated, overused, and tired. It really is time to put it down for good.

 

[ZeroRay]

Yes, QTE's must die.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

It was a fun experiment back then (what was the first game to use it, Shenmue?), but it's gotten bloated, overused, and tired. It really is time to put it down for good.

Dragon's Lair? It's been around a long time, but Shenmue brought it back from the dead, RE4 popularized it, and now here we are with a visitor who seemed cool when he first dropped by but now won't fucking go away.

 

[luka]

I considered Dragon's Lair and Space Ace as the originators, but wasn't sure if they should be grouped in with the games that helped popularize it. There was a huge gap between them and they seemed innocent enough.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I considered Dragon's Lair and Space Ace as the originators, but wasn't sure if they should be grouped in with the games that helped popularize it. There was a huge gap between them and they seemed innocent enough.

The original sinners, man. They deserve the beatings just as much as anyone for it.

 

[LiK]

QTEs rule!