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[Oriel]

flemish far right wing militant are demonstrating in front of Spanish embassy in support of Catalonia

And?

No taxation without representation. They opposed a regime imposing their will on them without allowing them any say.

Your grasp of US history is simplistic to say the least.



I don't trust any far right organisations in these kind of matters. If anything I assume their support is entirely to try and destabilise the EU.

It doesn't matter if a distinct people with their own language and culture are oppressed by an occupying power or fully represented in a democracy they are still entitled to self determination. Quite a few here some to believe that if a region/nation has it good why would they even want independence. That's completely besides the point, it's about freedom to determine your own path.

 

[Ac30]

I mean, yeah, that was obvious from the beginning. The more interesting part will be comparing the number of "Yes" votes against the number of people in the Catalonian electoral census. Even then, obviously results aren't exactly gonna be all that reliable.

This whole thing is completely symbolic at this point. Even if the Catalan government declares unilateral independence I doubt anyone (other than possibly Russia, just to fuck with Europe) would recognize it as an independent state.

 

[Javier23]

Please, try to read something about the things you are speaking about, last time I checked, catalans were white settlers pissed of by taxes to support poorer Spanish regions.

We "spend their money at the bar instead of working", if Catalonian politicians are to be believed.

 

[ecosse_011172]

Anecdotal, but I am an Asian American and I am in a long distance relationship with a Catalan/Spanish girl and I've been completely embraced by her family and friends. I mean to feel comfortable eating dinner with her parents when I don't speak Catalan or Spanish says something.

Now, I don't have nearly enough information on the political parties and structure to really unbiasedly comment on the referendum, but I do know far and wide through many many weddings, parties, and film festivals---I don't see them as racist.

I'm flying to Barcelona tonight.

Tempus fugit is well, best ignored.

 

[Oriel]

This whole thing is completely symbolic at this point. Even if the Catalan government declares unilateral independence I doubt anyone (other than possibly Russia, just to fuck with the EU) would recognize it as an independent state.

I know that the Catalan Govt has said it would UDI days after a yes result but that would be a mistake in this case. It could be enough for Madrid to say enough is enough and completely suspend Catalonia's autonomy and institutions. They need to be smart from here on out.

 

[Duffman]

some sources would be nice if we are starting to talk about results, like come on, those numbers on reddit could be completely made up...

 

[His Majesty]

flemish far right wing militant are demonstrating in front of Spanish embassy in support of Catalonia

N-VA is a pro independence centre right party. Please don't spread misinformation.

The only significant far right party in Belgium is Vlaams Belang, which is also pro independence, but they are not mentioned in the article.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

some sources would be nice if we are starting to talk about results, like come on, those numbers on reddit could be completely made up...

Is possible we won't have definitive numbers today. And they don't really matter, anyway.

 

[AkrosRockBell]

some sources would be nice if we are starting to talk about results, like come on, those numbers on reddit could be completely made up...

They probably are, like most news and reasons for Catalonian independence.

 

[Oriel]

N-VA is a pro independence centre right party. Please don't spread misinformation.

The only significant far right party in Belgium is Vlaams Belang, which is also pro independence, but they are not mentioned in the article.

Not that it should even matter who is supporting Catalan independence worldwide. This is just flinging shit around by some, hoping some will stick. Downright dishonest.

 

[Javier23]

Anecdotal, but I am an Asian American and I am in a long distance relationship with a Catalan/Spanish girl and I've been completely embraced by her family and friends. I mean to feel comfortable eating dinner with her parents when I don't speak Catalan or Spanish says something.

Now, I don't have nearly enough information on the political parties and structure to really unbiasedly comment on the referendum, but I do know far and wide through many many weddings, parties, and film festivals---I don't see them as racist.

I'm flying to Barcelona tonight.

Racism in Catalonia is no different than in the rest of Spain. We have a fondness for blackface in our Christmas celebrations I guess (not that you should expect people here to care or know much about American history but you know) and there's a minority of jerks who are very openly racist. Same one you'll find anywhere. The most openly racist political party that we've possibly ever had is coincidentally strictly Catalonian (one of their very fucked up ads: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKr9yxDDqr0 ). Not that that means anything, the Spanish falangists are still a legal political entity. Somehow.

 

[veryslowhand]

Not surprised if numbers are high, they were letting people vote more than once.

 

[MistakenMobius]

N-VA is a pro independence centre right party. Please don't spread misinformation.

The only significant far right party in Belgium is Vlaams Belang, which is also pro independence, but they are not mentioned in the article.

NVA is supporting Sudanese government rounding up and extraditing refugees in brussels. That's not centre right.

Also wondering the TAK will be so Happy when Linkebeek and Rhode saint genese. will ask for independence.

 

[His Majesty]

Not that it should even matter who is supporting Catalan independence worldwide. This is just flinging shit around by some, hoping some will stick. Downright dishonest.

I think in this case it's just someone who doesn't like the N-VA that much =P

 

[Vanillalite]

Not knowledgeable enough to comment on this particular situation.

The only thing that comes to mind in a general sense is how far is too far in terms of these Independence votes as regards to splitting up Europe.

Like are a bunch of micro states better for Europe or worse? It feels like if you really wanted to you could split all of the major EU countries into 3 or 4 smaller countries.

I'm just not sure if that's a good thing or not?

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

¿Why going for a very small and irrelevant catalonian party when out own goverment party is racist?

"And you married with a black guy? I don't know what's worse!"

"cleaning badalona"

 

[Javier23]

¿Why going for a very small and irrelevant catalonian party when out own goverment party is racist?

I'm just not a fan of sweeping generalizations.

 

[His Majesty]

Not knowledgeable enough to comment on this particular situation.

The only thing that comes to mind in a general sense is how far is too far in terms of these Independence votes as regards to splitting up Europe.

Like are a bunch of micro states better for Europe or worse? It feels like if you really wanted to you could split all of the major EU countries into 3 or 4 smaller countries.

I'm just not sure if that's a good thing or not?

I'd like to think that in the future the extra layer of national government will be rendered unnecessary in a strong European Union and that we can move to a system of local and European government.

 

[afroguy10]

Fucking hell!

?

 

[barber]

¿Why going for a very small and irrelevant catalonian party when out own goverment party is racist?

"And you married with a black guy? I don't know what's worse!"

"cleaning badalona"

Important to say that the major of badalona pride himself in kicking out roma people and "keeping the streets clean" and is the face of the pp of catalonia (who is the fringest of parties really)

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

I'm just not a fan of sweeping generalizations.

?

We "spend their money at the bar instead of working", if Catalonian politicians are to be believed.

Also,

Is not only what they said, is also on their own politics.

 

[Javier23]

?

Touché! It's clear who I was talking about anyway.

 

[Sioen]

flemish far right wing militant are demonstrating in front of Spanish embassy in support of Catalonia

Did you really call nva far right? Stop spreading bullshit.

 

[Oriel]

Not knowledgeable enough to comment on this particular situation.

The only thing that comes to mind in a general sense is how far is too far in terms of these Independence votes as regards to splitting up Europe.

Like are a bunch of micro states better for Europe or worse? It feels like if you really wanted to you could split all of the major EU countries into 3 or 4 smaller countries.

I'm just not sure if that's a good thing or not?

Well.....as someone from a small EU state (Ireland) I can't say I'm too happy regarding the dominance of the bigger states (Germany, France, Italy, Spain) in European affairs. Anything which weakens that can only be a good thing. With predominately smaller members (pop c.5-15 mil) as members you'd see more effort to come together and strengten the Union. Larger countries would be less inclined to lose power to Brussels. But smaller states have more of an interest in increased integration due to geographical and population constraints.

?

Apologies, misread.

 

[curi0usBystander]

some sources would be nice if we are starting to talk about results, like come on, those numbers on reddit could be completely made up...

La Vanguardia has some live result. But I don't really know how reliable they are.

 

[afroguy10]

Apologies, misread.

Don't worry about it, it's cool .

 

[MistakenMobius]

Did you really call nva far right? Stop spreading bullshit.

the TAK is absolutely a facist entity bent on flemish supremacy and pardoning nazi criminal:
- http://www.lacapitale.be/actualite/...ts-trop-francophiles-de-zaventem-854751.shtml
- http://www.resistances.be/r0202.html#006

 

[ClosingADoor]

Well.....as someone from a small EU state (Ireland) I can't say I'm too happy regarding the dominance of the bigger states (Germany, France, Italy, Spain) in European affairs. Anything which weakens that can only be a good thing. With predominately smaller members (pop c.5-15 mil) as members you'd see more effort to come together and strengten the Union. Larger countries would be less inclined to lose power to Brussels. But smaller states have more of an interest in increased integration due to geographical and population constraints.

But this would also mean transferring more power to the EU, which kind of goes against being independent. Catalonia now is unhappy with the Spanish government - and rightfully so with the actions being taken by them. But if you are a ton of small nations with the EU managing more and more things, then a lot of times you will end up in the same situation of not agreeing with the other members and still having to do what they want.

 

[superdeluxe]

This whole thing is completely symbolic at this point. Even if the Catalan government declares unilateral independence I doubt anyone (other than possibly Russia, just to fuck with Europe) would recognize it as an independent state.

Russia will absolutely recognise it, perhaps allow citizens to gain Russia citizenship

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

This whole thing is completely symbolic at this point. Even if the Catalan government declares unilateral independence I doubt anyone (other than possibly Russia, just to fuck with Europe) would recognize it as an independent state.

If Catalan goverment declares unilateral independence, the central government will apply the Article 155 of our Constitution to seize control of the catalonian institutions (said article is basically a copy of a Franco law).

 

[The Greek Freak]

So, according to the Reddit live thread, First results suggest 93.9% to 4.6% for independence with no numbers for participation. I'm guessing all the no voters stayed home.

Why bother to vote no when riot police are stealing ballots and beating ypur opposition.

 

[Dragner]

¿Why going for a very small and irrelevant catalonian party when out own goverment party is racist?

"And you married with a black guy? I don't know what's worse!"

"cleaning badalona"

Theres ton of this stuff from PP, racist, homophobic, etc..stuff, central goberment is well educated and wont fall for giving bad PR but minor governors usually are found making these racist slurs or even making death threats to opposing parties.

He wishes someone shoots Pablo Iglesias on his head, nothing happened to him...A girl received 2 years prison sentence for making a poor taste joke over terrorism.

 

[Cocaloch]

No taxation without representation. They opposed a regime imposing their will on them without allowing them any say.

Your grasp of US history is simplistic to say the least.

Americans had the same ability to vote as any other British person. If you owned the right amount of land in Britain you could vote. Of course voting wasn't ever really the issue.

 

[His Majesty]

I'm reading figures of a turnout around 60%.

 

[KingSnake]

I'm reading figures of a turnout around 60%.

Any serious source?

 

[Pikma]

¿Why going for a very small and irrelevant catalonian party when out own goverment party is racist?

"And you married with a black guy? I don't know what's worse!"

"cleaning badalona"

Fuck that is disgusting

 

[SplitYourInfinities]

Don't bother to look at the results, they are meaningless. It's not like it really matters tho, independentists already won.

 

[His Majesty]

Any serious source?

people on reddit (so no)

 

[Javier23]

Don't bother to look at the results, they are meaningless. It's not like it really matters tho, independentists already won.

I was genuinely interested in the results, but the Catalonian government didn't even bother waiting for them before deciding on their own to start seceding. What a sham. If they were gonna do it this way they should just have declared the independence without exposing anyone to what happened today.

 

[Resident_UA]

I think 2 things can be true at the same time:
1. The whole independence thing is stupid. By this logic we will have 10000 nations in Europe.
2. Spain police fucked up. With this kind of treatment they just proved that this is exception to the rule.

I’m mostly pissed off because this referendum is another win for Russia (guess what, they like it). But there’s a lot of grey area here...

 

[His Majesty]

I was genuinely interested in the results, but the Catalonian government didn't even bother waiting for them before deciding on their own to start seceding. What a sham. If they were gonna do it this way they should just have declared the independence without exposing anyone to what happened today.

Source? I've read that given the nature of the proceedings today they will present the results to the parliament.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

I was genuinely interested in the results, but the Catalonian government didn't even bother waiting for them before deciding on their own to start seceding. What a sham. If they were gonna do it this way they should just have declared the independence without exposing anyone to what happened today.

It's just a stupid attempt to force the 155 and neither the catalonian goverment started seceding, without the recount.

Source? I've read that given the nature of the proceedings today they will present the results to the parliament.

That's correct.

 

[iamblades]

Americans had the same ability to vote as any other British person. If you owned the right amount of land in Britain you could vote. Of course voting wasn't ever really the issue.

That's a fairly nonsensical way of looking at things though.

Why would Americans own land in Britain? Why shouldn't land ownership in the colonies count if the colonists were equal other Englishmen?

This is all also ignoring the fact that requirements of owning land to vote was a valid complaint made by many of the more radical revolutionaries who were pushing for universal suffrage.

 

[Jzero]

That video of police shoving the shit out of the dog fucking enraged me

 

[mavo]

Don't bother to look at the results, they are meaningless. It's not like it really matters tho, independentists already won.

The results hardly ever mattered, what matters is what the Catalunya government plans to do with them.

 

[Javier23]

Source? I've read that given the nature of the proceedings today they will present the results to the parliament.

The President of the Catalonian government just went live on TV. He very thinly veiled said just as much, that they are proceeding with their plan to have their own independent state. We'll soon see in any case.

 

[Resident_UA]

Random question (just for a bit of context). Is Catalonian government more conservative that Spain in general? Because Spain is kind of conservative as is...

 

[faridmon]

Regardless of what you think of this referendum of independence, it will creat a huge precedent for other minor regions to also go for something similar. It's gonna be hectic.

 

[Javier23]

Random question (just for a bit of context). Is Catalonian government more conservative that Spain in general? Because Spain is kind of conservative as is...

The biggest political party is indeed conservative. The government coalition pursuing independence though is very much all over the ideological spectrum.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

You know what's the funny (sad) thing? That in the end we, all kind of ppl here, voted, something the spanish goverment said it wouldn't happen and neither would allow it, so all this violence and institutional repression all for naught. Only 13% of the voting stations were closed and most people that wanted the vote could do so.

Random question (just for a bit of context). Is Catalonian government more conservative that Spain in general? Because Spain is kind of conservative as is...

The actual catalonian goverment is an unholy mix of left and conservative parties with the only point in common being the independence.