Cheating on your SO
- Thread starter Kem0sabe
- Start date
- Status
I feel guilty but I don't regret it if that makes any sense.
The robust fruitfly society has moved beyond monogamous relationships obviously.
Omegasquash
Member
Here's another question, and it's honest too. Did you talk about shaking things up in the sack with your SO prior to dabbling? Not trying to lead, btw.
Well, probably misinterpreted your point, but regardless I was merely pointing out that chimps aren't as sexually liberal (lets say) as bonobos are. My point being, just because bonobos are like that, it doesn't necessarily mean their behaviour is comparable to humans. the subject was brought up of course.
With that said, it's funny that both chimp and bonobo behaviour and social structures are in some way comparable to humans, but also contradictory to each others. Of course there are many similarities between the two in other ways.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
Meh. She should feel bad for getting caught. People who cheat and do endless texts and calls with their jumpoff are dumb.
Kong Fisso
Banned
Yes, that would make for a very exciting thread indeed.
Thank you for sharing your tepid wisdom.
Joel Was Right
Member
Good points
Zeouterlimits
Member
Yes master. Thank you master.
Whatever would we do without you master.
Psychotext
Member
You really sort of do... by definition you've stated that you're quite willing to fuck over and deeply hurt someone you care about. All that for cowardice, because you're not willing to risk losing what you have without being sure about what you're going to get.
That speaks volumes on your personality.
Omegasquash
Member
I should also assert that I dearly hope my points are good. If a bump in divorce rates is due solely to outside influence as opposed to availability, then that's a bummer.
No I did not. I did not know at this point that sex can be so different. And it happened quite unexpected. I am not even saying that it was better in any way, just different.
Interesting point. I guess I have to evaluate a bit more on it. I started this affair after she told me that she kissed somebody else and wanted a break. I forgave her for it and after 3 weeks we came back together. In this time the whole affair thing started. Not trying to justify my actions (which I know were not ok) just telling the story.
And still I dont think that cheating on someone you love automatically means that you are a coward who only cares for oneself. I don't even think that anyone who knows me would state that opionion about me.
I'm sure there's a way to apply this to human populations, but like most drosophila experiments, it's to teach genetics and not evolutionary biology.
Psychotext
Member
Sure, but I imagine you don't like thinking of yourself in those terms so it's easy to disassociate.
soul creator
Member
saying "monogamy isn't natural" isn't necessarily saying that "everyone should cheat on each other!", or "open relationships for everyone!". It's just a response to the prevailing cultural idea that something is "wrong" with you if you happen to not prefer monogamy, since all evidence points to the idea that lifelong monogamy isn't some standard, universal human way of doing things. The more holes we can poke in that myth, the better, as far as I'm concerned. After all, if more people realized "hey, it's ok to not pursue monogamous relationships, and there's nothing wrong with trying something different", then things like "cheating" would likely happen less often, and we would have healthier attitudes when it comes to sex, jealousy, etc.
Cheaters can often seem like the equivalent of that whole "down low" phenomenon. People who deep down feel like they're not really made for monogamy, but since they're constantly told that it's the only "real" type of relationship, they pursue it anyway...usually with hurtful results.
And sure, it's ultimately their fault, but it seems that if you want to prevent things like that from happening in the future, societal attitudes need to change as well.
As an individual, if you do want to pursue monogamous relationships, that's fine, just understand what you're getting into, and how in many ways that conflicts with how we're built. It may still work out for you, and that's great! Just like if you wanna be a vegan or whatever, that's fine, but we shouldn't pretend like giving up meat is some easy thing to do. And as a society, we shouldn't push the idea that if you don't pursue a certain way of doing things, your "relationship isn't real", or "there's something wrong with you", or whatever.
I'm not sure why that should be seen as a controversial viewpoint. If one wants people to stop pointing out monogamy isn't natural, then one's efforts should be towards challenging the people that push monogamy as the #1 standard ideal of all human relationships, and if you do anything different, you're a failure. Since that is a far more common problem in modern society. Once that happens, no one will feel the need to point out "lifelong monogamy isn't natural", because everyone would already understand that.
And oh yeah, it's not like people practice real monogamy (mating for life) anyway. Most people who support "monogamy" actually support serial monogamy. Where it's apparently ok to love someone for 2 years, break up, and love someone else for the next 2 years...but loving 2 people simultaneously for 4 years is "weird".
Cheaters can often seem like the equivalent of that whole "down low" phenomenon. People who deep down feel like they're not really made for monogamy, but since they're constantly told that it's the only "real" type of relationship, they pursue it anyway...usually with hurtful results.
And sure, it's ultimately their fault, but it seems that if you want to prevent things like that from happening in the future, societal attitudes need to change as well.
As an individual, if you do want to pursue monogamous relationships, that's fine, just understand what you're getting into, and how in many ways that conflicts with how we're built. It may still work out for you, and that's great! Just like if you wanna be a vegan or whatever, that's fine, but we shouldn't pretend like giving up meat is some easy thing to do. And as a society, we shouldn't push the idea that if you don't pursue a certain way of doing things, your "relationship isn't real", or "there's something wrong with you", or whatever.
I'm not sure why that should be seen as a controversial viewpoint. If one wants people to stop pointing out monogamy isn't natural, then one's efforts should be towards challenging the people that push monogamy as the #1 standard ideal of all human relationships, and if you do anything different, you're a failure. Since that is a far more common problem in modern society. Once that happens, no one will feel the need to point out "lifelong monogamy isn't natural", because everyone would already understand that.
And oh yeah, it's not like people practice real monogamy (mating for life) anyway. Most people who support "monogamy" actually support serial monogamy. Where it's apparently ok to love someone for 2 years, break up, and love someone else for the next 2 years...but loving 2 people simultaneously for 4 years is "weird".
yeah I read Sex at Dawn
Anyone who knows you wouldn't know about you cheating, now would they? If they do know, and they're letting it all be, then you're just surrounding yourself with like minded people.
That may sound a little confusing actually. What I mean is chimps are patriarchal with a rigid hierarchical structure with alpha male, etc. Bonobos are somewhat more matriarchal with a egalitarian structure with female and son having equally high status. Also chimps settle disputes with aggression/violence, and bonobos settle disputes with sex/bonding.
What's striking is they're opposites of themselves, yet we can see elements of their behaviour within ourselves. It's almost as if they're emanations of ourselves manifesting on a lower plane. Two aspects of our nature.
Don't take that literally of course(lol). Just the perculiarity of it is striking.
Monogamy is perfectly natural, just because it's not follow by 100% of people does not preclude it from being natural. Nor would I say polyandry or polygamy is a bad thing. But there are people in this very thread saying that because they view monogamy as unnatural they can put quotes around 'cheat' and justify it somehow.
Steve Youngblood
Member
I don't disagree with you necessarily. However, timing is important. It's not unfair to live the bachelor life forever and cite how unnatural monogamy is to you as an unnecessary justification for living life the way you want to live it. However, it's disingenuous to point out after the fact that monogamy isn't natural as either a rationale or as cynical, no-nonsense wisdom from the school of hard knocks.
The former is a valid lifestyle choice. The latter ranges from "lame rationalization" to "uninsightful, overly cynical Psych 101 babble."
Where do you get that? I don't see any reasonable people having problems with polygamy or open relationships, that's your own choice. That has nothing with thinking that cheating is wrong.
Which doesn't mitigate the wrong that they did. This whole thing about people looking down upon open relationships is wholly imagined. It's seen as something different, but it's not something that's frowned upon. You're acting as if people in open relationships get persecuted like homosexuals.
Not a Jellyfish
but I am a sheep
People are selfish, it seems they no longer take the time to work out their problems with their spouses and instead look for the answers to the problems elsewhere. It is sad.
Beer Monkey
Member
Do you have any scientific evidence that infidelity is more common now than it used to be?
diamondstar
Member
Some of the best advice I have been given.
I have a ton to think about man. The thing is with me is I think I am in this relationship more because of my morals. I care so much about being a good man to my woman(not necessarily my current..could be any woman)that I may be constantly in the line of fire in the relationship.. I am the hard worker by a pretty wide margin and I am the ambitious one. I don't have kids with her because she hasn't quit smoking eventhough she keeps saying "she will quit next week".
So if I did make the mistake in my mind it is almost justified IMO. I feel that I have done my best and gave her plenty of the benefit of the doubt for a long time. I hate to be the asshole but in order to get out of the relationship I feel I may have to be ...AGAIN.
Omegasquash
Member
Heh, sex with other people is different, and I'm on the very, VERY low end of the sample sizes I've seen tossed about in this forum. Public record, I've had sex with three people. That said, they were all very, VERY different. And in two of those relationships (the two that lasted longer than a month), we talked about sex and needs/wants and tousled it up, so to speak. This resulted in a different experience, and building upon those experiences to add even more experiences just leads to more options on the menu at your favorite restaurant, so to speak.
I would make this recommendation if that's what's driving your action. And I wish you luck. I'm not trying to make you feel bad, but you're probably going to need it at one point or another. Your proper will need it too.
fierrotlepou
Member
Being cheated on is the only thing that can drive me absolutely insane. Just thinking about it... Why would you do that to someone? If you're not to be trusted, don't start a relationship with someone.
ChuyMasta
Member
This is a topic my Fiance and I discussed a couple of times. I've told her that I am doing everything I can so that she doesn't feel the need to look for someone else to fill the gap. And while I expect her to do the same (she knows, as we discussed this), I won't bitch about it when she doesn't. I'll just take action on whatever works best for me as long as it doesn't involve me trying to impose my aggression/authority/demands on her or her circle of friends and family (She'll do the same). Whatever she feels, she tells me, regardless of intention. I do the same. We are blunt about everything and that does have some setbacks but so far things are sailing smoothly and I like the system we have in place.
Devolution
Member
Monogamy is just as natural as polyamory. The problem is that we've created societies around what's most efficient at the time. Monogamy, or pairing men and women off, was efficient for societies and humans in most civilizations recognized this and created whole structures around this idea. Now that we've hit a time where we don't need coupling and sex outside of marriage is becoming less taboo, people don't have to live the lie of a "happy" marriage. But some people are still stuck in the old ways and don't know how to be true to what they want.
nVidiot_Whore
Banned
Relationships are interesting to me.
People don't question enough who their partner is.. how compatible they really are, etc. Or they don't follow through with doing the difficult thing: leaving their significant other when they realize it's not going to work.
Doesn't help that there are people out their preaching that the best course of action is to try to "make something work," as opposed to examining whether or not something should, could, or will work.
"It takes hard work..." Hell no.. a good relationship is one that SHOULDN'T take "hard work." If it is "hard work" to be happy with your SO, you are doing it wrong IMO.
Happiness should be the goal, not togetherness.
People don't question enough who their partner is.. how compatible they really are, etc. Or they don't follow through with doing the difficult thing: leaving their significant other when they realize it's not going to work.
Doesn't help that there are people out their preaching that the best course of action is to try to "make something work," as opposed to examining whether or not something should, could, or will work.
"It takes hard work..." Hell no.. a good relationship is one that SHOULDN'T take "hard work." If it is "hard work" to be happy with your SO, you are doing it wrong IMO.
Happiness should be the goal, not togetherness.
Well see, this does put atleast the start of the affair in a sort of 'gray' area. She fooled around with someone else, she wanted a break.. I don't think it's outrageous that you found someone else during that break.
However, not telling her immediately when the two of you got back together, but instead going on with the affair for 2 years... that makes you a douchebag asshole. Sorry, that's just how it goes. Doing it for the weak reason that the sex is "different" is even worse. Unless the girl you had the affair with had 3 breasts and 2 sets of genitalia I don't see why you shouldn't be able to bring that kind of "different" sex into bed with your GF. Or did your GF only want missionary under the covers with the lights out? If that's the case.. break up with her.
Omegasquash
Member
Man, I'd buy you a beer if I could. I respect what you're saying about your morals, but think about survival. She hasn't done what she said she'd do. She created an expectation that, by your account, she has no interest in meeting. You're doing all the work, and she's doing none.
Now take all that and add kids. It WILL get worse and it WILL lead you to make bad, bad decisions if you feel like you're busting your balls and taking care of a child or two and she's not.
You're not making a mistake if you haven't run around on her. The choices you need to make will be hard, because one way or another people aren't going to like you. Take stock in the fact that many others will respect you for the courage it'll take to even CONSIDER taking an honest assessment as opposed to just running away. Trust your friends and family (you know what I'm talkin' about). Just don't, don't, don't get married if you're not sure. Not trying to be scary here, but you need to think about your needs. Just...you don't need to bang an other to do it. Cut the cord, then move on if that's what it comes down to.
Omegasquash
Member
Thank you for posts and your opinion. And to be honest if I were in the same situation again, I would not do it another time.
I know that it was a complete asshole move of me but somehow I just could not break up with the affair or my GF as I felt somehow connected to both of them at one point.
I love this.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
i actually suspect general attitudes to sexuality are changing a bit and i don't necessarily think it's 'lack of moral fibre'So, just got back from an "emergency" breakfast with my best friend... the poor guy just found that that his wife has been cheating on him for 3 years... i was best man on their wedding 5 years ago.
What the hell prompts someone to cheat on their significant other? from where i´m standing, i´m seeing this happen more and more in society, a general lack of moral fiber, couples are breaking up left and right due to cheating, promiscuity is rampant and i feel like society as a whole is going to shit.
Maybe i´m just overreacting, but i would like to read other people´s thoughts on this. Do people just have less patience, these days, to work out their relationship issues or are the relationship themselves more and more messed up?
P.S Sorry for rant, office full of women is not the best place to let off some steam, so gaf is the next best thing.
however. i'm totally down for monogamy, am getting married next year and REALLY don't want this shit for myself. Who knows. marriage is weird. might as well give it a shot and hope for the best.
Absolutely. Society has a way of funneling us into these sort of extreme either or situations, and I personally believe human sexuality and relationships are a lot more fluid and nuanced than we seem to allow ourselves or each other.
soul creator
Member
Eh, from the entirety of American culture? And, though less so, most of Western society which is built around monogamous, til death do us part marriage being seen as the "ideal"? From every movie and tv show from the day we're born showing this? From the extremes of seeing relationships as either "bachelor sleeping around as much as he wants" or "married to 1 person for the rest of your life", with nothing in between? Even Steve Youngblood, who seemingly supports the idea of people pursuing non-monogamous relationships unintentionally falls into this phrasing:
Steve Youngblood said:
msv said:
I 100% agree that cheating is wrong as well. But if we ultimately want to create a society where less people cheat on each other, how do we go about that? Continuously ignoring the realities of human sexual behavior? Or just repeatedly saying "Yep, you cheated, you suck, end of story" and then waiting for the next person to cheat?
I don't see it as any different than discussing any other phenomenon. We can point out all day long that "violence is bad, people who do it should go to jail". Sure, I agree, that's uncontroversial, and I don't ever question that at all. But if I was actually interested in solving the issue of violence, it seems like there needs to be a larger discussion of the subject. Looking for root causes, rather than the symptom, and all that.
People (and their associated brains that cause them to do things) don't live in complete vacuums.
Also, maybe it's just me, but I don't really look at the "monogamy isn't natural" responses as an "excuse" for a person's behavior. I look at it as a way of telling the person that it's ok to stop pursuing monogamous relationships, because you're clearly not made for them.
Wholly imagined? I think we must live in a completely different society, lol. Hell, just the other day, I had a family member tell me I don't really love my partners, simply because I happen to date more than 1.
At least in America, we have an entire political party dedicated to so-called "family values", which include 1-man, 1-woman monogamous marriage. You think they're all about open relationships? Well, except maybe Newt Gingrich...haha.
And this isn't meant to get into an oppression olympics discussion (you guys don't have it as bad as gays, what are you complaining for! Hmm, that sounds familiar...) but I think it's pretty obvious that open relationships, while becoming somewhat more accepted, is nowhere near taking down the standard "monogamy is so awesome, everyone should do it!" viewpoint that most people are inundated with.
Where do you live by chance?
Polyamory would make a basis for really strong basic social units.
I mean... it just works. Logistically and evolutionarily. I mean except for that crazy intense possessive jealousy that people feel. But I wager it wouldn't be so crazy intense if it weren't the automatic cultural norm.
But yeah... polyamory - more adults (with diversity, and more chance for good parental attributes) to care for a the children, more opportunity for sexing up multiple partners, without the burden of needless guilt. Of course, determining the direction of the social unit can be contentious, requires greater social cooperation skills which may be lacking in a significant proportion of the species. The children would also have more sibling companions as well and could help and aid in the raising of each other.
It would also implicitly include more multi-generationality in the basic social structure - multiple adults of a 'clan' would have a larger age range, providing more perspectives and experiences to disseminate to the rest of the group. Children interacting with adults would also gain more perspective, even while at the same time impressing a greater diversity of thinking and experiences among the clan unit.
José Mourinho
cocknose
I love the, "it's our animalistic nature" and reasoning of that ilk. If that was a reasonable excuse there are any amount of ridiculous things we as human beings would just do, and then we literally would be acting like animals!
nVidiot_Whore
Banned
Devolution said:
I think it's interesting to actually debate this, and not treat it as fact.
Our sex drives certainly make polyamory "natural," very difficult to argue otherwise. We aren't attracted to only one mate, we are attracted to numerous mates. And when we find a mate, we don't stop being attracted to other potential mates.
So if monogamy is also natural, it's a bit of a competitive "natural" desire isn't it?
I don't think monogamy is "natural" on it's own.. I think the natural force at play if there is any is the desire for your mates to be monogamous to you. But I also am not so sure about that; is it a natural instinct or insecurity brought on by how you are raised?
So I'm personally unsure of how "natural" monogamy is... other than other "natural" feelings humans have like jealousy and envy, and our natural competitive nature.
I'm currently in a very devoted relationship that has an open attitude about sex. I truly don't feel a natural desire to "love" anyone else.. at least I don't think I do.. but there is a desire to have sex with other women.. and my girlfriend has the same desire. It's great.. outside sex is really just an extension of our own sex life, and we are devoted to each other in every way imaginable. It's 100% honest, and it's the most refreshing relationship I've ever had.
TheContact
Member
It's called Islam and they reduce it through executions
I'm not sure what part of town you're from, but yeah... That is simply not true in any way shape or form. People most definitely look down upon open relationships (especially open marriages). I'm 99% sure if I told my parents I was in one I'd be looked down upon more than if I was homosexual.
Steve Youngblood
Member
Are we telling the OP to tell his friend to not pursue monogamous relationships because his wife cheated on him? In that context, the advice doesn't seem very appropriate.
Mind you, maybe you're just talking specifically to people who aren't the OP here who have offered their tales of cheating on the significant other. But, that aside -- and I honestly mean no disrespect -- what you're suggesting is ultimately meaningless given this context.
I'm not sure what part of town you're from, but yeah... That is simply not true in any way shape or form. People most definitely look down upon open relationships (especially open marriages). I'm 99% sure if I told my parents I was in one I'd be looked down upon more than if I was homosexual.
Wonder how many people in open relationships have been beaten to death.
Skiptastic
Member
Now don't be sad, cuz two out of five ain't bad.
you're really over thinking this.
Hey now I'm absolutely not going that far down the road. I'm not trying to pretend open relationships are persecuted to the extent homosexuals were and still are. That'd be fucking silly. Absolutely bonkers. But there are very specific instances of prejudice that come up that are kind of parallel. So they can get persecuted "like" homosexuals, but on the whole definitely, DEFINITELY not "as much as" homosexuals.
It's still a relationship and lifestyle that you might have to hide from everyone around you for fear of it coming out and ruining things, and having people look down on you.
The fact is that people looking down on open relationships is definitely not "wholly imagined," and it is 100% fact that it is frowned on by at least a very large, very vocal portion of our population.
fatigues_gasolini
Member
I haven't had sex with my gf in 16 months, and we are supposedly in an open relationship. I once asked her if we were ever gonna have sex again and she didn't give me an answer... I would love to go out and exercise my freedom but never get the chance because she doesn't have any friends, all my friends don't like her, and any time I go out, she doesn't trust me. God, I'm such a tool.
- Status