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CIVILIZATION VI |OT| He's Got the Whole World in His Hands
- Thread starter SirNinja
- Start date
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
So I tried immortal with Peter again and this time I'm off to an early lead thanks to Cleopatra being easy pickings after getting whittled down by Kongo and Barbarians. 100 turns in on Epic speed and 7 cities already.
BBPunjabi816
Member
Wow that was my exact question, except, I was going to also ask whether I can buy the game off of STEAM and if it didn't work, could I just get a refund?
Just tried on last year's MBP without a discrete GPU and the first few turns actually run fine (on low settings). Now I'm wondering if it's possible to somehow play a LAN game across the PC and Mac on the same steam account.
Seventy_X_Seven
Member
The UI shows a half bar added to the end of your progress circle to indicate where a eureka would put you.
I'm playing on a late 2014 MacBook Pro with iris Pro and strategic view is perfectly playable. Normal view is slow and hammers the battery.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
So Im really enjoying Civ 6 so far, on my third game already, but I have to admit that the AI needs some work.
In my first two games Norway seemed to be wanton to go to war every couple dozen years, for little to no reason. Id have mostly green relationship modifiers with him and hed be happy with me but hed still start marching his entire military my way every couple dozen years. I figured that was just a trait of Norway. But now, last night in my current game as Germany, Ive got Teddy right next to me and weve been happy buds for over 100 turns. He has like a +12 green relationship numbers with me and -2 red numbers, so from the information the game provides youd think we are on good terms. Weve also been trading since the start and he keep praising me for clearing barbarians and such and have shared delegations, he acts and appears to be my friend.
WELL, last night I just happened to notice a huge amount of American military parking itself right on my borders. I looked at the relationship screen and nope, we are still +12 green and -2 negative, he is friendly with me and there is a big green smiley face portraying how Teddy feels towards me. And sure enough, once his troops are set he declares a surprise war on me, telling me that hes had enough of my evil ways!!! What evil ways??? Weve been best buds the entire game, I had zero indication of him being upset with me in any way, I have a good amount of my own military so Im not weak compared to him, I have no idea why on Earth he is going to war with me.
I love how the interface gives us lots of information we can use for diplomacy in Civ 6, but if the information is useless in actually determining why the AI does what it does, what good is it? It feels like the AI ignores whatever the relationship modifiers actually display and do random things for random decisions from time to time, and that doesnt make for a very interesting nor fun diplomacy element in the game. I feel like we have to prepare for war from anyone at any time and mostly ignore the relationship numbers right now, and that saddens me.
On the plus side, Washington looks to be a wonderful city, it will make a great addition to my German Empire! Say my name Teddy, SAY MY NAME!!!!
In my first two games Norway seemed to be wanton to go to war every couple dozen years, for little to no reason. Id have mostly green relationship modifiers with him and hed be happy with me but hed still start marching his entire military my way every couple dozen years. I figured that was just a trait of Norway. But now, last night in my current game as Germany, Ive got Teddy right next to me and weve been happy buds for over 100 turns. He has like a +12 green relationship numbers with me and -2 red numbers, so from the information the game provides youd think we are on good terms. Weve also been trading since the start and he keep praising me for clearing barbarians and such and have shared delegations, he acts and appears to be my friend.
WELL, last night I just happened to notice a huge amount of American military parking itself right on my borders. I looked at the relationship screen and nope, we are still +12 green and -2 negative, he is friendly with me and there is a big green smiley face portraying how Teddy feels towards me. And sure enough, once his troops are set he declares a surprise war on me, telling me that hes had enough of my evil ways!!! What evil ways??? Weve been best buds the entire game, I had zero indication of him being upset with me in any way, I have a good amount of my own military so Im not weak compared to him, I have no idea why on Earth he is going to war with me.
I love how the interface gives us lots of information we can use for diplomacy in Civ 6, but if the information is useless in actually determining why the AI does what it does, what good is it? It feels like the AI ignores whatever the relationship modifiers actually display and do random things for random decisions from time to time, and that doesnt make for a very interesting nor fun diplomacy element in the game. I feel like we have to prepare for war from anyone at any time and mostly ignore the relationship numbers right now, and that saddens me.
On the plus side, Washington looks to be a wonderful city, it will make a great addition to my German Empire! Say my name Teddy, SAY MY NAME!!!!
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I reloaded a save because a city state next to me just vanished and it turns out a barb camp razed it. It had catapults and battering rams. There's another barb camp and it's giving me a harder time than the other civs are doing on immortal. The last 5 turns it spawned a unit every single turn. I can't move my entire army since that invites other civs and barb camp to come attack me.
Do we know if rulers have hidden aggressiveness stats like they used to, or is the agenda the extent of their AI differences? If there are still some hidden stats, I wonder if we'll see situations like Civ 5 where the AI "lies" about its diplomatic relationship. I haven't played enough to say for certain, but Gorgo and Scythia's leader seemed fairly reliable in my games so far (and I sort of expected them to be warmongers).
Every time I played Civ 5 and saw "Friendly" next to Isabella, Napoleon or Catherine with no explanation I knew I needed to prep for a surprise invasion.
6 at least has the Surprise vs Formal war system so presumably the AI will start feuding among themselves if one starts warmongering. Haven't seen that happen yet (mostly see AI-AI wars on different continents, never between any of my neighbors).
Also - AI seems to chronically underrate the player's military in general (possibly because they can't use their own very well in actual warfare, but they also underrate tech advantage). If they fix that issue, maybe the AI will declare war less often.
LumpOfCole
Member
Going for a domination victory, are you? It would be a shame if there wasn't any Niter in any conceivable reach. Looks like you're stuck with swordsman until you can train that infantry.
So the allied AI criticizes you for being a warmonger even when you declare war as a joint alliance? Seems a bit odd.
Loving the game though. I skipped V because I was terrible at IV (even though I enjoyed it initially) but I seem to be having an easier (and better) time with VI.
Loving the game though. I skipped V because I was terrible at IV (even though I enjoyed it initially) but I seem to be having an easier (and better) time with VI.
If it's not mentioned in the peace dealings it remains in your hands, just under occupied status.
pretty done
Member
Probably mad they're the worst Civ in the game
At least buff the damn berzerker firaxis
Just pick Scythia. Anyone can win with Scythia.
CrocMother
Banned
I know but I'd actually like a notification in the bottom right because I forget to check.
Seventy_X_Seven
Member
So besides the AI generally being terrible city planners which could always use some fixes, their diplomacy needs major tweaks as constantly mentioned here.
I played a match with Kongo as my neighbor. I spreader my religion to them like their agenda says and they loved me. I still could never declare friendship, so I gave them great trade deals. Still nothing. Then late in the game, around 1700, I disbanded all my military because I had very distinct borders with an ocean on one side and city states I control and Kongo on the other side. No point in paying maintenance since I'm not using them. It says Congo is friendly with me, yet I guess they think I'm weak with no military and declare a surprise war. Of course the AI is stupid and still using medieval units and I plow through and wipe them off the map. At least no one else denounced me as I was razing cities, I guess because they declared a surprise war?
1. The AI having their agenda is fine, though I think it can be pretty drastic how quickly they get upset for violating their agenda.
2. I never got friendly enough to another civ to see their hidden agenda, so no comment.
3. Trade routes and trade deals seem to have marginal effect if any on friendliness. I'd like to see that toned up. Also sort of unrelated but I'd like to see trade routes befitting both cities again.
4. Clearing barbarians near enemy borders needs to up your friendliness as well. Currently if anything they get angry since you have troops by their border.
5. Civs need to pay more respect to your power, say based on the difference in scores or something. Not declare an unwinnable war just because another civ currently isn't fielding a military.
I'm thinking maybe they also declared war because we were competing for city states? But that is listed as part of Greece's agenda so o doubt it's a general thing for other civs to get angry over.
I played a match with Kongo as my neighbor. I spreader my religion to them like their agenda says and they loved me. I still could never declare friendship, so I gave them great trade deals. Still nothing. Then late in the game, around 1700, I disbanded all my military because I had very distinct borders with an ocean on one side and city states I control and Kongo on the other side. No point in paying maintenance since I'm not using them. It says Congo is friendly with me, yet I guess they think I'm weak with no military and declare a surprise war. Of course the AI is stupid and still using medieval units and I plow through and wipe them off the map. At least no one else denounced me as I was razing cities, I guess because they declared a surprise war?
1. The AI having their agenda is fine, though I think it can be pretty drastic how quickly they get upset for violating their agenda.
2. I never got friendly enough to another civ to see their hidden agenda, so no comment.
3. Trade routes and trade deals seem to have marginal effect if any on friendliness. I'd like to see that toned up. Also sort of unrelated but I'd like to see trade routes befitting both cities again.
4. Clearing barbarians near enemy borders needs to up your friendliness as well. Currently if anything they get angry since you have troops by their border.
5. Civs need to pay more respect to your power, say based on the difference in scores or something. Not declare an unwinnable war just because another civ currently isn't fielding a military.
I'm thinking maybe they also declared war because we were competing for city states? But that is listed as part of Greece's agenda so o doubt it's a general thing for other civs to get angry over.
The diplomacy needs a lot of work.
Yet again the AI leaders can do things that you can't. Worst of all is that annoying "remove your units from my borders" request. Even when you have a single unit that's been fortified in the same spot long before their borders expanded. If you agree to remove it and then declare war on them before this "promise" is deemed fulfilled after an arbitrary number of turns, the entire world hates you for being untrustworthy. Once the unit is moved the promise should be instantly fulfilled.
Also you have no way of asking the A.I .to remove their troops from your borders and forcing them to declare war before their army is in place. And if you preemptively declare war on them to gain the advantage then YOU'RE the warmonger.
Also you can't punish the A.I. for breaking their promises. Three times I asked Gandhi not to convert my cities, he broke it every time and I declared war every time. He gets away scot-free and I'M the warmonger. There wasn't even an option to denounce him, probably because he denounced me?
I really miss the green and red lists of reasons Civs like or dislike you from Civ V.
Yet again the AI leaders can do things that you can't. Worst of all is that annoying "remove your units from my borders" request. Even when you have a single unit that's been fortified in the same spot long before their borders expanded. If you agree to remove it and then declare war on them before this "promise" is deemed fulfilled after an arbitrary number of turns, the entire world hates you for being untrustworthy. Once the unit is moved the promise should be instantly fulfilled.
Also you have no way of asking the A.I .to remove their troops from your borders and forcing them to declare war before their army is in place. And if you preemptively declare war on them to gain the advantage then YOU'RE the warmonger.
Also you can't punish the A.I. for breaking their promises. Three times I asked Gandhi not to convert my cities, he broke it every time and I declared war every time. He gets away scot-free and I'M the warmonger. There wasn't even an option to denounce him, probably because he denounced me?
I really miss the green and red lists of reasons Civs like or dislike you from Civ V.
Those are sort of still there but you need a higher level of diplomatic access to that Civ. If you have a Spy and some Civics your access increases. At some level you get the red/green list of bonuses and negatives.
They should probably surface it sooner. And yeah... diplomacy needs lots of work.
CrocMother
Banned
Echoing the sentiments that diplomacy needs a lot of work, because it's can't be said enough.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
The list is still there under the relationship tab in the diplomacy screen, the problem is that the list doesnt really matter as the AIs behave randomly counter to it anyway.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Surprised there hasn't been any minor patches lately.
Seventy_X_Seven
Member
Perhaps even worse that they always get hopelessly outdated anyways. I feel like they're always carrying cavalry particularly long past its era. Maybe the AI doesn't know how to upgrade units or sell off old ones? I've also never seen them form corps or armies either.
On a similar note civs with a city within reach from the ocean never seem to build up a navy, and if they do its all outdated. I've never once been attacked from the coast either.
I guess it's a good thing currently with how bad diplomacy is. If they were somewhat competent in war it would get frustrating really fast with how often the world gangs up on you.
I'm slightly terrified by the notion of vaginal cavalry...
I think the AI doesn't upgrade because it's so insanely expensive to upgrade, and due to the formula for how it calculates military strength. It overvalues total strength I think, and counts multiple low tech units the same as fewer high tech units because when you add the numbers together they come out higher...
I think the AI doesn't upgrade because it's so insanely expensive to upgrade, and due to the formula for how it calculates military strength. It overvalues total strength I think, and counts multiple low tech units the same as fewer high tech units because when you add the numbers together they come out higher...
Seventy_X_Seven
Member
Lol wow. I need to double check what I say if I'm not using a keyboard.
AI is also so quick to give up all their money in certain trade deals too which I exploit a good bit, so that could be part of it too.
You guys were getting me hyped for a Linux patch.
I was going to get a Mac anyways. That Emoji keyboard is an unprecedented innovation.
Unbound By Death
Member
Cleopatra had 3 times my army but when i killed 3-4 of her units she panicked and offered to pay me 32 gold per turn for 30 turns....
Sure why not cleo.
decoyplatypus
Member
The AI does form corps and armies. I don't know if it does all that well, but then, I don't know if I'm doing it optimally either. It's not surprising they don't sell units because the developers themselves didn't realize how effective selling units is in this game.
I'm guessing the sudden DOWs from friendly AIs are a product of both (a) underlying leader characteristics and (b) quirks in how the AIs calculate strength/opportunity. On the one hand, the AIs presumably still have a lot of their "under the hood" preferences from previous games. E.g. Monty is 10/10 aggressive, while Pedro is less likely to DOW under identical circumstances. On the other hand, it's pretty clear that something is causing AIs, across the board, to DOW early in the game, even when the odds aren't that great.
Question about Gorgo's agenda: is she pissed whenever you initiate a deal for peace, no matter how favorable the terms? After taking Norway's capital I decided to peace out rather than press on to elimination. I got all his gold, GPT, plus the ceded capital in the deal (i.e. everything he could offer). Gorgo was pissed. In later wars, I accepted similar peace deals, with the key difference that I made sure that the AI initiated the negotiation. Gorgo praised me for it. Was the first deal somehow not good enough for her, or is her AI set to perceive any peace deal the player initiates as some kind of capitulation?
I'm guessing the sudden DOWs from friendly AIs are a product of both (a) underlying leader characteristics and (b) quirks in how the AIs calculate strength/opportunity. On the one hand, the AIs presumably still have a lot of their "under the hood" preferences from previous games. E.g. Monty is 10/10 aggressive, while Pedro is less likely to DOW under identical circumstances. On the other hand, it's pretty clear that something is causing AIs, across the board, to DOW early in the game, even when the odds aren't that great.
Question about Gorgo's agenda: is she pissed whenever you initiate a deal for peace, no matter how favorable the terms? After taking Norway's capital I decided to peace out rather than press on to elimination. I got all his gold, GPT, plus the ceded capital in the deal (i.e. everything he could offer). Gorgo was pissed. In later wars, I accepted similar peace deals, with the key difference that I made sure that the AI initiated the negotiation. Gorgo praised me for it. Was the first deal somehow not good enough for her, or is her AI set to perceive any peace deal the player initiates as some kind of capitulation?
How close can I park my military to another civ without pissing them off?
Fuckin Greece is pissing me off. We've been in an alliance for centuries, they started spreading their religion to my cities despite me asking them multiple times to stop doing it. Now we're having religious war with apostles and missionaries, should I expect a surprise war from them? They have a couple units fairly close to our border.
I also want to gripe a bit about how weak the Civlopedia. I looked up Apostle to see what their abilities actually did, but it just had a lil blurb about them, no stats or useful info on their abilities, I imagine it's the same across the board.
Fuckin Greece is pissing me off. We've been in an alliance for centuries, they started spreading their religion to my cities despite me asking them multiple times to stop doing it. Now we're having religious war with apostles and missionaries, should I expect a surprise war from them? They have a couple units fairly close to our border.
I also want to gripe a bit about how weak the Civlopedia. I looked up Apostle to see what their abilities actually did, but it just had a lil blurb about them, no stats or useful info on their abilities, I imagine it's the same across the board.
decoyplatypus
Member
The tooltips and Civlopedia need a lot of work. It is not easy to see how some pretty important mechanics work. For example, is there a screen or tooltip somewhere that will show me not just my amount of war weariness but where that weariness is coming from?
For city states, it's mainly because the lack of strategic resources.
I'm sticking with Civ 5 until this happens. There's a lot of great features here, but the game desperately needs a patch or two.
I always give at least a 1-2 tile buffer and I never hear a complaint anymore.
Brawndo Addict
Banned
This surprised me so much when I took over an AI's City that had been pillaged by barbarians. Not only does repairing a district seem to cost just as much time as building one, but you suffer a huge opportunity cost because now the city's production queue is stuck doing something it already had rather than advancing. I'd rather just delete the pillaged district and work the underlying tile instead of having wasted space. It just seems crazy that you can do something in 1 turn with one unit that will put your opponent back dozens of turns.
Seventy_X_Seven
Member
Any favorable deals in a peace settlement don't matter to Gorgo's agenda. Part of her AI is she will never give you anything in return for peace, but whether or not she likes you depends entirely in who started the peace negotiation. If you want to be friendly with her you have to wait for the enemy to beg.
This, and religion needs to be changed up with...something. It's too grindy atm, there's no real strategy involved. Pumping out more religious units than everyone else just isn't very fun
decoyplatypus
Member
Right, and that seems sort of silly. Norway was begging. I usually reject the AIs first couple of peace offers, but sometimes I close the diplomacy window first to check a few things, then re-enter negotiations. In this case, I gave the exact same (harsh) terms that the AI had just offered to concede. But because I'm the one who technically "started" the conclusive talks, Sparta views me as soft?
Loading the second computer up in offline mode used to work for Civ V. You just had to change the Steam profile name otherwise it would get confused.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
I agree Civ 6 needs a patch or two, but I honestly cant go back to Civ 5 now. I like almost everything about Civ 6 better, and if they patch the AI up then it will be everything I think.
LumpOfCole
Member
Anyone else with a compatible keyboard really like it when you declare war and your whole keyboard lights up red for the duration of the war? It's a nice little touch.
Imperfected
Member
To be honest, the mid/late game for every civilization and victory type is almost identical (and in a way, that sort of makes sense): once Factories become available start spamming down Industrial Zones with a few Commerce Hubs to feed them, then ride the wave of industrialization to your victory type of choice*.
*Unless it's religious, but religious victory is basically a special challenge mode for when you don't feel like doing things a reasonable way. And even then, you should probably just pursue "religious" victory by eradicating the other civs that have religions.
CoconutTank
Member
I like that pillaging has some relevancy now in Civ6, though I haven't gotten around to that much personally. The yields one can get from pillaging are pretty good, and being able to make a city easier to siege by taking down districts is also nice.
LumpOfCole
Member
I gave London back to Victoria after clawing it back from Sumeria, and she thanked me profusely. 15 turns later and she doesn't even want to be my friend.
#WarmongerZoned
#WarmongerZoned
Imperfected
Member
Yeah, it's also kind of ass that liberating a city-state now seems to provide absolutely no benefit. "Thanks for freeing us from our oppressors, but you didn't get enough envoys in while you could so kindly fuck off out of our land, jerk." Though I guess it's less noticeable since there's less reason for most civs to even both liberating a city-state instead of keeping it, anyway.