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CNN: US drops its largest conventional bomb (MOAB) on ISIS target in Afghanistan

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Aselith

Member
Lot of hyperbole here. It's not like they dropped this on a town.

Its essentially a large bomb that doesn't penetrate but relies on a massive concussive force that can be amplified by canyons and caves. If you find an ISIS base spread over a large area in a canyon you drop this to wipe out the base. If you find that they are spread out in caves you drop this outside to allow the concussive force to go down the tunnels. This is used on cave systems that can't be penetrated by traditional penetrating weapons.

This was dropped on a cave complex.

The only other way to clear out an area like this is to send boots on the ground and hope they find all the hiding spots. I guess that is what people would prefer?

http://abcnews.go.com/International/us-drops-mother-bombs-afghanistan-largest-nuclear-weapon/story?id=46778853

Oh it is huh? When did we use it before?

And this statement means they definitely killed civilians

*The military statement added: "U.S. Forces took every precaution to avoid civilian casualties with this strike. U.S. Forces will continue offensive operations until ISIS-K is destroyed in Afghanistan.""
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Seriously. This isn't like a nuke or even close.

Unless they dropped it in the middle of a town it really isn't that big of a deal.

So...it doesn't matter if collateral happens if its not dropped in the middle of a city or a town?

Some of you guys are kinda scary when it boils down to numbers and not people
 
I get it, but it's fairly unnerving to see the military pulling out some of its biggest, never-before used weaponry right at a time when things are feeling uneasy already and Trump is banging on the war drum.

Before the MOAB, we used the Daisy Cutter and have been using them since the Vietnam War. Only 225 were made and they were only used for clearing minefields, caves and sometimes trees. This is just a larger version of it.

The reason we aren't dropping these everywhere is because they aren't really a guided munition and serve a better purpose as shock and awe rather than military destruction. This was designed back in 2002 and has been sitting on the sidelines because there are only a few situations in which it makes sense.
 

BajiBoxer

Banned
Err. The Tsar Bomba is a nuke. A pretty big one. Biggest ever, in fact. And scary as fuck.

This MOAB is old news. They used them years ago. Its only historic in that its being used against ISIL.

I'd say the Brimstone deserves far more attention.
The moab hasn't been used before. It was made for Bush 2s Iraq war, but never deployed.
 

Bookoo

Member
We likely have the physical capacity to make much, much bigger bombs, but part of the reason we moved away from just making bigger blasts is that they became impractically large long before we hit Tsar Bomba size. It's highly unlikely anyone is making anything bigger than Tsar Bomba, or even close to it. There's literally no conceivable case where a 50 megaton bomb is remotely necessary, at least shy of an Independence Day-like alien invasion lol. We can be just as effective with a fraction of the yield, and even a "tiny" nuclear bomb is both devastating beyond belief and basically a guaranteed an escalation to end-of-world event simply due to the quantity of bombs.

So are you saying I should stop building my bunker?
 

Glix

Member
So...it doesn't matter if collateral happens if its not dropped in the middle of a city or a town?

Some of you guys are kinda scary when it boils down to numbers and not people

But thats what it actually is, a numbers game. We will prevent X deaths but in doing so, Y innocents will die.

I'm not saying its right or wrong, but that is the thought process.
 

Downhome

Member
Lot of hyperbole here. It's not like they dropped this on a town.

Its essentially a large bomb that doesn't penetrate but relies on a massive concussive force that can be amplified by canyons and caves. If you find an ISIS base spread over a large area in a canyon you drop this to wipe out the base. If you find that they are spread out in caves you drop this outside to allow the concussive force to go down the tunnels. This is used on cave systems that can't be penetrated by traditional penetrating weapons.

This was dropped on a cave complex.

The only other way to clear out an area like this is to send boots on the ground and hope they find all the hiding spots. I guess that is what people would prefer?

http://abcnews.go.com/International/us-drops-mother-bombs-afghanistan-largest-nuclear-weapon/story?id=46778853

Thank you so much for the truth and some common sense.
 

reckless

Member
So...it doesn't matter if collateral happens if its not dropped in the middle of a city or a town?

Some of you guys are kinda scary when it boils down to numbers and not people
Not thats still a big deal, but right now there is no claims of collateral damage.

People are trying to compare this thing to nukes or wondering why it isn't like breaking news everywhere which is insane.
 

Lautaro

Member
When it comes to the military, you can't just trust them when they call something "a terrorist target" considering all the other terrorist targets that ended up not being so terroristy

So its more distrust with the US military than Trump then? I understand that, I'm just not amused by this forum freaking out like the US dropping a lot of bombs is something that Trump started. Obama's last strike was a lot bigger and it was specifically made as a message to the world. If this attack was a lot of 1 ton bombs instead of a single huge bomb it wouldn't be news.

Also I would be freaking out if this was an attack on Syria but no, its Afghanistan, you were already at war with the Taliban (the only justified war you have there IMO), you can't let ISIS get a hold of it too.
 
My first concern goes to the innocent people caught in the cross fire. I mean I just know that civilians were harmed caused this administration doesn't care about human life. Here at home let alone abroad.

My second thought goes to the idea that I'm becoming numb to this level of action. That scares me because it might mean more people being hurt. I wish I could understand why Americans love and support war the way we do. Shit like this literally makes me ill.
 

Goro Majima

Kitty Genovese Member
We likely have the physical capacity to make much, much bigger bombs, but part of the reason we moved away from just making bigger blasts is that they became impractically large long before we hit Tsar Bomba size. It's highly unlikely anyone is making anything bigger than Tsar Bomba, or even close to it. There's literally no conceivable case where a 50 megaton bomb is remotely necessary, at least shy of an Independence Day-like alien invasion lol. We can be just as effective with a fraction of the yield, and even a "tiny" nuclear bomb is both devastating beyond belief and basically a guaranteed an escalation to end-of-world event simply due to the quantity of bombs.

Outside of size, I think they also figured that bombs of that caliber lose more and more of their energy into space.

But no worries, we have MIRVs which are just a bunch of smaller nukes on one warhead that can spread damage more efficiently!
 
damn http://www.deagel.com/Defensive-Weapons/GBU-43B_a000978001.aspx

just from a google search they cost $16 million a pop. We have made 20.

damn!

I found this:
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/nov/16/business/la-fi-bunker-buster-bomb-20111117
So about $15 million per bomb if you include the development costs.

Thank you! Further evidence that it is early, it did not even occur to me that I could have just google'd this myself -__-
 

Iksenpets

Banned
I honestly kind of wonder if the generals had to dangle this thing in front of Trump's face to talk him down from an actual nuke.

Still haven't heard much of a rationale for why dropping a particularly large bomb helped here, either. From what I was reading, it's not particularly suited for penetrating underground structures, so the use here is more shock and awe than anything else.
 

Barzul

Member
Gonna wait to hear what the casualties were before casting my main judgement. On the face of it, this is certainly preferable to having boots on the ground.

I mean I think the elimination of Daesh is something we can all agree on.
 

boiled goose

good with gravy
waiting on those civilian casualty numbers

Not even Obama reported civilian casualties accurately and the media doesn't give a fuck.


Gonna wait to hear what the casualties were before casting my main judgement. On the face of it, this is certainly preferable to having boots on the ground.

I mean I think the elimination of Daesh is something we can all agree on.

You can't get rid of terrosists by bombing it. Every civilian that dies leads to new recruits.

This is only good for people who profit from war.
 
I honestly kind of wonder if the generals had to dangle this thing in front of Trump's face to talk him down from an actual nuke.

Still haven't heard much of a rationale for why dropping a particularly large bomb helped here, either. From what I was reading, it's not particularly suited for penetrating underground structures, so the use here is more shock and awe than anything else.

Sounds more psychological than anything for sure. And maybe he just wanted to see a really big boom, wouldn't surprise me.
 
Lot of hyperbole here. It's not like they dropped this on a town.

Its essentially a large bomb that doesn't penetrate but relies on a massive concussive force that can be amplified by canyons and caves. If you find an ISIS base spread over a large area in a canyon you drop this to wipe out the base. If you find that they are spread out in caves you drop this outside to allow the concussive force to go down the tunnels. This is used on cave systems that can't be penetrated by traditional penetrating weapons.

This was dropped on a cave complex.

The only other way to clear out an area like this is to send boots on the ground and hope they find all the hiding spots. I guess that is what people would prefer?

Thank you.
 

BouncyFrag

Member
Lot of hyperbole here. It's not like they dropped this on a town.

Its essentially a large bomb that doesn't penetrate but relies on a massive concussive force that can be amplified by canyons and caves. If you find an ISIS base spread over a large area in a canyon you drop this to wipe out the base. If you find that they are spread out in caves you drop this outside to allow the concussive force to go down the tunnels. This is used on cave systems that can't be penetrated by traditional penetrating weapons.

This was dropped on a cave complex.

The only other way to clear out an area like this is to send boots on the ground and hope they find all the hiding spots. I guess that is what people would prefer?

http://abcnews.go.com/International/us-drops-mother-bombs-afghanistan-largest-nuclear-weapon/story?id=46778853
Good post.
 

Instro

Member
I honestly kind of wonder if the generals had to dangle this thing in front of Trump's face to talk him down from an actual nuke.

Still haven't heard much of a rationale for why dropping a particularly large bomb helped here, either. From what I was reading, it's not particularly suited for penetrating underground structures, so the use here is more shock and awe than anything else.

The concussive force is good for caves and tunnels, it just wouldn't penetrate reinforced structures like a bunker. So based on the news, they were targeting some sort of ISIS tunnel system, thus this bomb makes sense. I'm sure there is a psychological component as well, but we used similar bombs in Iraq 1 and Vietnam on the same types of targets, as far as I am aware anyway.
 
Lot of hyperbole here. It's not like they dropped this on a town.

Its essentially a large bomb that doesn't penetrate but relies on a massive concussive force that can be amplified by canyons and caves. If you find an ISIS base spread over a large area in a canyon you drop this to wipe out the base. If you find that they are spread out in caves you drop this outside to allow the concussive force to go down the tunnels. This is used on cave systems that can't be penetrated by traditional penetrating weapons.

This was dropped on a cave complex.

The only other way to clear out an area like this is to send boots on the ground and hope they find all the hiding spots. I guess that is what people would prefer?

http://abcnews.go.com/International/us-drops-mother-bombs-afghanistan-largest-nuclear-weapon/story?id=46778853

Thanks for context.
 

Maxinas

Member
So, there's a huge jump in power from a MOAB to a nuke?

"For some perspective, it is about .07% as powerful as the Hiroshima atomic bomb, and .0009% as powerful as the the largest nuke currently in the US arsenal."

-Reddit Quote
 
But thats what it actually is, a numbers game. We will prevent X deaths but in doing so, Y innocents will die.

I'm not saying its right or wrong, but that is the thought process.

That thought process makes sense though. ISIS is already killing X number of innocent people a day - - eliminate or drastically reduce ISIS and that number decreases.
 

Instro

Member
Uhhhh

https://twitter.com/ZekeJMiller/status/852578160008876032

"@PressSec won’t say whether Trump authorized or was briefed on the MOAB use"

It's probably for the best. I don't know that this needs any special presidential involvement though, other than it being notable for the bomb used, the action itself seems rather mundane. It's not a big new operation, or a particularly major target. Based on the OP this was in the works months ago, so it may have crossed the previous administration's desk rather than the current.
 
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