xHunter
Member
Yes, right after EA, Ubisoft and Take Two.I wonder if this is a precursor to MS acquiring Square Enix? Done, but not announced?
Crystal Dynamics is working with The Initiative on Perfect Dark
- Thread starter 3liteDragon
- Start date
tmlDan
Member
From what i understand it was in a MS job posting they took down but never corrected the wording publicly.
either way AAA studio that still hasn't even made a snippet of gameplay in 3 years.
The point still stands.
Topher
Identifies as young
Concern trolling? What are you talking about? I'm questioning Grubb's logic in making this about SE and CD and questioning if SE is "ok". My previous posts on this subject explicitly state that assuming this means there are problems at the The Initiative is baseless.
I think CD deserves just as much benefit of the doubt there as MS and TI. Why make assumptions either way? If this is normal then why should we be concerned about MS or SE?
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tmlDan
Member
But you gotta admit it's strange, why not use internal devs like Sony does? Sony only outsources assets the majority of the time to known support studios not big studios. Why outsource when you have studios in the double digits to help support internally?
Seems a bit odd, no?
Riky
$MSFT
If they haven't made "a snippet of gameplay in 3 years" how did Spencer play the game?
Riky
$MSFT
Other studios are making their own games with their own timelines, if you want to add capacity you have to bring outside help or delay something else internally.
tmlDan
Member
Well, it wouldn't be surprising for a studio to have playable gameplay but if its so bad it cant be released publicly yet and 3 years later you announce a support studio while still saying you're early in development.
these are all warning signs you cant ignore.
Genx3
Member
Jaffe is feeding the fanboy fire with his hot takes.
It does not seem like they are struggling. People see what they want to see.
Many AAA games out source especially when they only have a 75 man team running the studio. It is perfectly normal.
Announcing that CD is now helping with the development of PD is like stating the game is now going into full production.
Riky
$MSFT
Not really, setting up a new studio takes time, then a pandemic hits. This is a big franchise and a small team for an AAA game, it's probably easier and quicker to get Crystal Dynamics in who have ties to the present management at The Initiative rather than try to recruit in this climate.
tmlDan
Member
You could be right for sure, in the end we will have to wait and see the end result to come to any conclusion.
Eventually some story will come out to confirm or deny any assumptions people make now
Men_in_Boxes
Banned
The Initiative had Perfect Dark playable last year.
Let's be honest, brand new AAA games take around 4.5 years to make now. A brand new AAA game built by a built from scratch studio is going to take a while longer. Then a built from scratch studio, who's making a brand new AAA game, is probably going to get slowed down by an unforeseen pandemic especially if they're based in California. It wouldn't make sense to show gameplay from a 2024 game at this point.
My God, if a company doesn't roll out its game exactly the way you think it should, the concern goes through the roof.
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Genx3
Member
The bolded is a warning sign. They are still early in development after 3 years. That's likely because they were building the studio the first 2 years.
The rest is not.
oldergamer
Member
Stop being a moron. Crackdown 3 lost the original developer due to getting purchased by epic. They only worked on multiplayer which was drastically scaled back
The team that made the second game were busy on a project and they had to ship the single player game to be developed by a different studio. Not a similar situation at all.
Its part of the reason they are buying studios. They were burned multiple times having a studio they worked with get bought by a publisher
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oldergamer
Member
No its due to them building a playable slice of the game
TLG was definitely a disaster, but I'm not sure it was worse than Halo Infinite. It was basically just way too ambitious for the platform it was meant for. So yes it was stupid to allow it to go ahead on that basis, but at least there were clear reasons for the difficulties.
Nothing I've see from Halo Infinite explains why it was in such a terrible state last year, supposedly a few months from its release.
R3claimer117
Member
So you're going to pretend covid didn't happen and all the developers were in the office working on the game full time? What kind of idiot stuff is this?
Ok. So let's say I don't understand what's the point of such collaboration. It's not like MS hasn't enough studios. And surely this game won't be released soon to require such urgent cooperation.The only reason could be they find CD particularly talented in something which I totally ignored for a game like Perfect Dark.
The point is that you have more manpower available to work on the game, without needing to commit to hiring 150 full time staff in a very short space of time (never goes well and too many useless people slip between the cracks).
instead of having your studios compete to attract a relatively small pool of good employees, just treat all global studios as one big one.
Sony have been doing this also - it's just large scale outsourcing.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
ND and SMS didn't outsource because of development problems, so no, it's not the same.
CatLady
Selfishly plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
It's an excellent announce trailer for a game that is in early development. Of course Sony showing only a logo for God of War in 2020, allegedly only a year before the game was supposedly going to release was much better, right.
nikolino840
Member
Everyone do that..even the company where i work and we work with iron and steel...but lot of the work is "start to work a piece" - "send it to an another factory" - "finish the work for the final product"
Iced Arcade
Member
also makes sense... obviously it's a sign of MS acquisition of Square to gain Japanese traction lol
Hopefully you read the new forum sticky after you write this.
Just ignore him. He's a troll.
Evil Calvin
Afraid of Boobs
The quote says they are early in development not full production
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
Gamerguy84
Member
I don't think this would even be a big deal if they just didn't say anything.
The PR statement they put out was worded pretty odd.
The PR statement they put out was worded pretty odd.
What, for a few months? After years of development?
I like to try and post in good faith sometimes.
abacab driver
Banned
Everyone who liked the franchise, everyone who'd like for it to be rebooted and most of all...all the people "concerned" about the game in this thread!
I know outsourcing happens, just didn't think it was such a huge part of the industry.
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
Outsourcing is one of the reasons Microsoft was able to make Forza an annual franchise compared to getting GT every 5 years or so
Games would take exponentially longer if they did everything in house
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nikolino840
Member
In our case it is because there are so many processes to do and so many different pieces to build starting from the raw material and every year the managers choose some processes or pieces to be done to an external company but not because the company is not able to perform for internal problems or because the president is stupid, but because now we are in 230 and we should be in 1000 with many more machines of course .. in the first quarter of 2021 we had a productivity of 112%
Thirty7ven
Banned
Outsourcing is common, what's not common is for a first party publisher to hire a third party publisher studio to co-develop a game already in development for a couple of years. Let's not forget The Initiative was built for this, which is a clear indicator of development problems, further cemented by the fact the studio had key people leave.
People saying this is normal are taking double dosage of daily copium.
People saying this is normal are taking double dosage of daily copium.
R3claimer117
Member
Covid was only a few months? You're not serious
DarkMage619
$MSFT
When did you hear that this title had development 'problems'? Can you detail exactly what those problems are? How did it feel when you played it?
Pedro Motta
Gold Member
No, that was shit as well, but at least was only a title am I right? Not much to fail there.
Peenolia010
Member
What IF Crystal Dynamics are the rumored studio MS is planning to purchase?
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Is anyone else hoping Microsoft announce a VR solution for Series sometime soon? Even if that's just allowing support for 3P VR headsets officially?
I mean, they are pushing SO many first-person 1P games, it just seems odd to me they don't have a VR solution to really immerse you in those environments. Not even sure if they will have VR support for stuff like Perfect Dark, Avowed, the next DOOM or Fallout etc. on PC, either.
It really feels like a missed opportunity IMHO. I remember Spencer saying they had no plans for VR like maybe two years ago, but it's doing all these first-person games they're making a disservice to not support VR with them or provide a VR solution (1P or 3P) for their consoles, meanwhile Sony has PSVR2 coming next year.
Please get on that, Microsoft.
To be fair, GoW can kind of get away with that because it (and SSM) are proven quantities already, which counts a lot. The Initiative isn't, since they're a new studio, and Perfect Dark isn't a "proven" commodity in the sense of the current industry, it hasn't been an active IP since 2005, almost 17 years by this point.
If the new Perfect Dark hits strong, then they can easily get away with a logo crawl for the sequel and no one'll bat an eye
I mean, they are pushing SO many first-person 1P games, it just seems odd to me they don't have a VR solution to really immerse you in those environments. Not even sure if they will have VR support for stuff like Perfect Dark, Avowed, the next DOOM or Fallout etc. on PC, either.
It really feels like a missed opportunity IMHO. I remember Spencer saying they had no plans for VR like maybe two years ago, but it's doing all these first-person games they're making a disservice to not support VR with them or provide a VR solution (1P or 3P) for their consoles, meanwhile Sony has PSVR2 coming next year.
Please get on that, Microsoft.
To be fair, GoW can kind of get away with that because it (and SSM) are proven quantities already, which counts a lot. The Initiative isn't, since they're a new studio, and Perfect Dark isn't a "proven" commodity in the sense of the current industry, it hasn't been an active IP since 2005, almost 17 years by this point.
If the new Perfect Dark hits strong, then they can easily get away with a logo crawl for the sequel and no one'll bat an eye
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DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
Can you detail how everything is completely fine?
You don't get help from a third-party studio to help co-develop a game years later unless you need help. The "problem" is that they couldn't do it on their own and needed the game to be co-developed.
You guys are taking the word "problem" as an offense and getting very defensive. It's not that big of a deal. Comparing it to SMS or ND outsourcing for TLOU is just stupid.
Zero point, I'm afraid.
they haven't shown any gameplay isn't the same thing as they haven't made any gameplay.
The problem is that you people are so caught up in trolling that you aren't listening. And when you don't listen, you don't learn.
Crystal dynamics isn't stepping in because the Initiative 'needs help'. From day one, the Initiative has been set up this way, to make Perfect Dark this way. Set up a core team of experts to work on the early stuff in the game, including the design and early development stuff. Then bring in manpower to make the game according to their vision they laid out.
what we're seeing now is the natural
Progression exactly as planned back in 2018. The Initiative will lead the project and manage it. CD will bear the brunt of the development stage with their larger manpower.
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When was it shown? June 2020. How long had covid forced people to work from home at that point?
Take your time. I know this is complicated stuff.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
What? Hahaha
are u drunk?
they didn't outsourced because of problem stop with this bs...
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Lovely Jeff Grubb using MS' description
The Initiative’s first game — What’s the so-called ‘AAAA’ studio making?
The Initiative is probably not making a Perfect Dark. At least, not exactly. The Xbox blockbuster studio is instead dabbling in the game's universe.
venturebeat.com
"Microsoft also describes The Initiative as its "AAAA" studio."
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DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
Yeah, everything was completely fine and they didn't need someone to co-develop an entire game.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
There's no trolling. People are saying it's not exactly the same as ND and SMS studios outsourcing work. That's it. You guys are just getting too upset when it's not a big deal.
"Isn't stepping in because the Initiative 'needs help"
"Then bringing in manpower to make the game"
lol. I'm done.