Crystal Dynamics is working with The Initiative on Perfect Dark

Lovely Jeff Grubb using MS' description


"Microsoft also describes The Initiative as its "AAAA" studio."

So not AAA.

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Tomb Raider cross over a possibility? That's good for them... because that team was just being built so it would've taken them like 6 years to make Perfect Dark.. they have support so it'll be even better now
A cross over would be pretty cool.
Lara reimagined in the Perfect dark universe, two femme fatales working together. I must admit, I never really played Perfect dark, yet I respect it's heritage and look forward to this immensely 😀👍
 
Can you detail how everything is completely fine?

You don't get help from a third-party studio to help co-develop a game years later unless you need help. The "problem" is that they couldn't do it on their own and needed the game to be co-developed.

You guys are taking the word "problem" as an offense and getting very defensive. It's not that big of a deal. Comparing it to SMS or ND outsourcing for TLOU is just stupid.
How do you know this wasn't their plan? The studio only has around 70 people. There are studios several times larger that still work with other studios for all sorts of aspects. You are assuming that CD working with The Initiative means that there is a problem when the game was only announced last year.

People are taking issue with your terminology because you are saying there is a problem with no evidence. If you've played the game and and tell us the problematic issues I'm all ears. Asking you these basic questions doesn't make anyone defensive. You say it's stupid to compare to Naughty Dog and Santa Monica Studios but it isn't stupid to think there's a problem with no proof?
 
How do you know this wasn't their plan? The studio only has around 70 people. There are studios several times larger that still work with other studios for all sorts of aspects. You are assuming that CD working with The Initiative means that there is a problem when the game was only announced last year.

People are taking issue with your terminology because you are saying there is a problem with no evidence. If you've played the game and and tell us the problematic issues I'm all ears. Asking you these basic questions doesn't make anyone defensive. You say it's stupid to compare to Naughty Dog and Santa Monica Studios but it isn't stupid to think there's a problem with no proof?


Just your usual concern trolling with a side of double standards. Still going hard after the mod thread.
 
The engine the game is being made on also only just entered preview this year. That's another factor people aren't taking into consideration. Tomb Raider was a reboot built on a lot of very cool systems. Different and clever ways of using the various tools in the character's arsenal to kill, traverse, explore, puzzle solve. Crystal Dynamics are the makers of one of the most successful modern day gaming reboots. Crystal Dynamics are the perfect team to work with The Initiative on this one.

I for one am more excited about the game knowing they're helping.
 
The engine the game is being made on also only just entered preview this year. That's another factor people aren't taking into consideration. Tomb Raider was a reboot built on a lot of very cool systems. Different and clever ways of using the various tools in the character's arsenal to kill, traverse, explore, puzzle solve. Crystal Dynamics are the makers of one of the most successful modern day gaming reboots. Crystal Dynamics are the perfect team to work with The Initiative on this one.

I for one am more excited about the game knowing they're helping.
100% agree, this is nothing but exciting. We had no idea if The Initiative could pull this off alone, but with Crystal Dynamics onboard the chances of it being great just increased dramatically. Patiently waiting to see more...
 
100% agree, this is nothing but exciting. We had no idea if The Initiative could pull this off alone, but with Crystal Dynamics onboard the chances of it being great just increased dramatically. Patiently waiting to see more...

Cause they literally just didn't have enough people before, regardless of how much talent there was. But now they got a proven AAA studio onboard with them, so anybody who was excited or looking forward to this one should be very happy I think.
 
Based on jeff grubbs article from 2020. He quoted a phil spencer tweet saying:

Great update today with @DGallagher_LA @mattbooty and the team @TheInitiative. Incredibly talented studio challenging themselves to do new things things (and old things :-) ) in new ways.


That makes me think this was the plan from the start and they are using the movie production model applied to game development to develop new initiatives. Having a really experienced base staff capable figuring out the difficult problems.

I also think CD are an acquisition target too. I guess if certain marvel ip licenses went with them as well. I was thinking WB was more likely. Hmm i suppose it could be both. Who knows
 
Based on jeff grubbs article from 2020. He quoted a phil spencer tweet saying:




That makes me think this was the plan from the start and they are using the movie production model applied to game development to develop new initiatives. Having a really experienced base staff capable figuring out the difficult problems.

I also think CD are an acquisition target too. I guess if certain marvel ip licenses went with them as well. I was thinking WB was more likely. Hmm i suppose it could be both. Who knows
CD belongs to Square-Enix, or am I wrong?
 
That makes me think this was the plan from the start and they are using the movie production model applied to game development to develop new initiatives. Having a really experienced base staff capable figuring out the difficult problems.

I also think CD are an acquisition target too. I guess if certain marvel ip licenses went with them as well. I was thinking WB was more likely. Hmm i suppose it could be both. Who knows

So this was the plan all along, and on top of that CD is an acquisition target and somehow they have the marvel ip licenses?

I get it, you're crazy.
 
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All signals about this game are really bad. The lackluster teaser was a clear sign that the game is in development hell and we won't see it until 3 or 4 years later. It's a little surprising though because they have talked several times in the past few years about the game being playable but still no show. And now they had to bring in anither studio to make the game.
 
How this thread is still a warzone after the sticky is beyond me. It's really tiresome to read threads like these to get some info and opinions and having to shift through all the petty shit.

Why can't people just wait a bit before they go all doom and gloom. I mean I know why. <moronic robot voice>: must hate everything other plastic box!
 
Microsoft outsources development and its only seen as an absolute train wreck. The game must clearly be in trouble.

Any one else outsource and it's just the way the world of game development is now and nothing to be concerned about.

And no, double standards don't exist.

Haha
 
All signals about this game are really bad. The lackluster teaser was a clear sign that the game is in development hell and we won't see it until 3 or 4 years later. It's a little surprising though because they have talked several times in the past few years about the game being playable but still no show. And now they had to bring in anither studio to make the game.
I didn't see those numerous claims in the last few years where they claimed that the game was playable. Can you post the links please?

Also, the last time I heard the initiative were around 40 or 50 members. It was obvious that they were going to be getting support, I just thought that they would use an in-house studio.
 
I didn't see those numerous claims in the last few years where they claimed that the game was playable. Can you post the links please?

Also, the last time I heard the initiative were around 40 or 50 members. It was obvious that they were going to be getting support, I just thought that they would use an in-house studio.
I'm too lazy to search them. But there have been several statements claiming the game is in playable state.

There's even a twitt in this thread of a picture of Phill Spencer playing it.
 
As to the foolishness over them being labeled at one point in a job listing, or by others, as a AAAA studio, that's just the kind of fluff you see and hear on your average resume or linkedIn profile. None of this means they can't craft the kinds of amazing big budget experiences they were formed to create in the first place.

If it wasn't already clear from the developer interview that was shown from the announce video, they already have a clear creative vision, design structure and plan in place for the kind of game they want this to be. They brought on a partner to help execute on it. A top tier AAA studio. If not for my original twitter account being suspended over angrily responding to some racist karen I would be able to go right back to my original account and post back when The Initiative was getting all that attention for the additions from top Sony studios and places like Rockstar, and knowing deep down that their numbers would need to be more to make the kinds of games they want to make, I specifically cited how amazing it would be if Microsoft could get the Tomb Raider team onboard.

Phil specifically mentioned around that time that he always wanted Xbox to have and own something like the Tomb Raider series of games, that it was something he was interested in pursuing. Well, we now have seemingly on a contractual single - or multiple depending on how things work - project basis the exact team that rebooted Tomb Raider back into relevance.

Everybody needs to rewatch this 3 minute 44 second interview on Perfect Dark. They clearly already know what they want to do. Hell, for all we know, Crystal Dynamics worked with them to arrive at this specific creative vision.



The Initiative at their existing size can be everything Microsoft want them to be. A team that conceptualizes and designs ambitious AAA games, and then they go out and contract whoever they need to in order to help them get it done. There may be times where the team that is assisting them just so happens to be within Microsoft's first party.

If we go back and read what The Initiative has been saying, they've actually stressed that they want to remain small and nimble team. They're meant to be a big budget AAA incubation fireteam.
 
How this thread is still a warzone after the sticky is beyond me. It's really tiresome to read threads like these to get some info and opinions and having to shift through all the petty shit.

Why can't people just wait a bit before they go all doom and gloom. I mean I know why. <moronic robot voice>: must hate everything other plastic box!
So people expressing their opinions is a warzone?
 
How this thread is still a warzone after the sticky is beyond me. It's really tiresome to read threads like these to get some info and opinions and having to shift through all the petty shit.

Why can't people just wait a bit before they go all doom and gloom. I mean I know why. <moronic robot voice>: must hate everything other plastic box!
because we talking about Xbox
 
So people expressing their opinions is a warzone?
if the opinions are based on nothing ... or just "gut feeling" (because this is what it is) ..... and there is a strong push that this very personal and based only on senselessness narrative be accepted as objectively true facts, yes it is normal that a toxic environment is created
 
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Who the hell is that loser David Jaffe? Didn't he get fired from Naughty Dog?

He's not even qualified to be Phil's butler.

Jaffe is obviously jealous that Phil turned the Xbox division into a monster and he wants him gone like the rest of the MS hater fanboys.

You, Jaffe and your ilk are so transparent.
What exactly has Phil done?
 
if the opinions are based on nothing ... or just "gut feeling" (because this is what it is) ..... and there is a strong push that this very personal and based only on senselessness narrative be accepted as objectively true facts, yes it is normal that a toxic environment is created
I don't think so. Nobody is making you guys read or reply to that stuff. Someone expresses their opinion and you choose to engage.

Are we only allowed to say good things? Every opinion about this game is based on nothing, no one has seen it.

I believe this was so bad that Microsoft had to ask a competent developer for help.
 
Didn't realise they were so early in development. This will be a late 2024 game right?

Also I didn't realise it was FPS confirmed, remember rumours it was third person. Xbox or PC is going to be a must for FPS fans.
 
I don't think so. Nobody is making you guys read or reply to that stuff. Someone expresses their opinion and you choose to engage.

Are we only allowed to say good things? Every opinion about this game is based on nothing, no one has seen it.

I believe this was so bad that Microsoft had to ask a competent developer for help.
based on nothing? okay i think that naughty dog probably outsourced the production of uncharted, as the rumor said, because are not good at doing it anymore .....am i doing it right ?

obviously I don't think so and was just an example...but it would be easy to fill the forum with billions of nonsense personal opinions based on zero facts. the forum would get worse than gamefaqs
 
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How do you know this wasn't their plan? The studio only has around 70 people. There are studios several times larger that still work with other studios for all sorts of aspects. You are assuming that CD working with The Initiative means that there is a problem when the game was only announced last year.

People are taking issue with your terminology because you are saying there is a problem with no evidence. If you've played the game and and tell us the problematic issues I'm all ears. Asking you these basic questions doesn't make anyone defensive. You say it's stupid to compare to Naughty Dog and Santa Monica Studios but it isn't stupid to think there's a problem with no proof?
One of the co-founders of the studio who was also the design director for this game left in February that doesn't sound like smooth sailing. A studio this size isn't meant to make AAA games that's all stuff people took from a typo and ran with it, a small studio like this is for AA games or collaboration.
 
So people expressing their opinions is a warzone?
Expressing opinions is fine, but the constant shit flinging from both sides to score some imaginary points for "the team" is tiresome. People feeling very concerned over CD working with the Initiative are being ridiculous. Can't wait to see more from the game.
 
based on nothing? okay i think that naughty dog probably outsourced the production of uncharted, as the rumor said, because are not good at doing it anymore .....am i doing it right ?

obviously I don't think so and was just an example...but it would be easy to fill the forum with billions of nonsense personal opinions based on zero facts. the forum would get worse than gamefaqs
And You are entitled to your opinion. Why would anyone ve upset about naughty dog doing a bad job?

What bothers me is people making rules of what can or can't be said. As long as you aren't insulting anyone, calling names, etc. You should be able to say whatever you want.
 
Didn't realise they were so early in development. This will be a late 2024 game right?

Also I didn't realise it was FPS confirmed, remember rumours it was third person. Xbox or PC is going to be a must for FPS fans.

That's the most disappointing part of this news. It's not that CD is helping out. It's that it took like 3-4 years for them to figure out that they needed help. Jaffe is totally right that this is not a typical situation in the industry. So that really just speaks to the fact that the development isn't going smoothly and they need a substantial amount of help actually creating the underlying game and not just outsourced assets.

Hopefully it's for the better and the game turns out well, but we're still a few years off now at best. When the studio was announced years ago I would have thought we'd have a game released by 2022 at the latest.
 
That's the most disappointing part of this news. It's not that CD is helping out. It's that it took like 3-4 years for them to figure out that they needed help. Jaffe is totally right that this is not a typical situation in the industry. So that really just speaks to the fact that the development isn't going smoothly and they need a substantial amount of help actually creating the underlying game and not just outsourced assets.

Hopefully it's for the better and the game turns out well, but we're still a few years off now at best. When the studio was announced years ago I would have thought we'd have a game released by 2022 at the latest.
You really expected a brand new studio (the company was founded in 2018) to release an AAA game in 3, 4 years at the latest? Completely unrealistic expectations, especially after COVID.
The game is likely entering full production now, that's why they needed more developers. Coming in 2023-2024 as expected.
 
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What exactly has Phil done?

He got Microsoft to buy Zenimax and Bethesda. All their IP and their studios are now Xbox First Parties. Fallout is now xbox exclusive, Starfield is xbox exclusive, Elder Scrolls 6 is Xbox exclusive, Doom is xbox exclusive, and many more. He has Microsoft investing more heavily in exclusive games than ever in history. He had a monster of a console built, so xbox didn't start out the gen with a concern about being technically left behind the way Xbox One came in. He greatly improved game pass and took it to another level along with their next gen ambitions. EA Access is now included with Game Pass Ultimate, at no additional cost. He had cloud gaming added to Game Pass Ultimate at no additional cost.

I could go on and on. Whenever someone seriously asks what has Phil done, I don't know why we take seriously anymore. Phil has literally turned Xbox around completely. It's a whole different beast from the Xbox One era. The xbox backwards compatibility support has flourished under his watch. What else do I need to say? I won't even bother naming all the exclusive titles coming, cause everybody knows them. Xbox is now on the firmest footing it has ever been inside Microsoft, and Phil is the one who convinced the CEO to be all in.
 
You really expected a brand new studio (the company was founded in 2018) to release an AAA game in 3, 4 years at the latest? Completely unrealistic expectations, especially after COVID.
The game is likely entering full production now, that's why they needed more developers. Coming in 2023-2024 as expected.

no, but I at least expect them to have something tangible by this point

ember labs is a new studio and released one of the year's best games with very high quality production values in a similar timeframe with a vastly smaller core team.Yes, much work was outsourced, but this was apparently well managed from the very beginning. They had a strong vision, delegated the work to strong leads or outsourced groups, and executed.

I do not get the feeling that The Initiative has been well managed based upon what they have shown and relatively late announcement of fairly unprecedented third party support. Sometimes having a bunch of external hires that come from well pedigreed AAA backgrounds doesn't guarantee success or efficiency
 
And You are entitled to your opinion. Why would anyone ve upset about naughty dog doing a bad job?

What bothers me is people making rules of what can or can't be said. As long as you aren't insulting anyone, calling names, etc. You should be able to say whatever you want.
i been banned multiple times for behaving like you saying
i hope mods seeing who is clearly pushing the doom and gloom baseless speculation and act in the same manner
 
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no, but I at least expect them to have something tangible by this point

ember labs is a new studio and released one of the year's best games with very high quality production values in a similar timeframe with a vastly smaller core team.Yes, much work was outsourced, but this was apparently well managed from the very beginning. They had a strong vision, delegated the work to strong leads or outsourced groups, and executed.

I do not get the feeling that The Initiative has been well managed based upon what they have shown and relatively late announcement of fairly unprecedented third party support. Sometimes having a bunch of external hires that come from well pedigreed AAA backgrounds doesn't guarantee success or efficiency
And Guerrilla (a fully staffed studio) is taking 5 years to release a sequel.
Perfect dark should be a very ambitious title, it's not the next Kena.
And we have no idea if The Initiative has something tangible or not at this point. As I said it's not unlikely they're done with pre production and are about to enter full production, but this is just speculation. There's no real reason to believe that the studio has been mismanaged.
Grubb said PD is a 2023 game months ago.
 
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And Guerrilla (a fully staffed studio) is taking 5 years to release a sequel.
Perfect dark should be a very ambitious title, it's not the next Kena.
And we have no idea if The Initiative has something tangible or not at this point. As I said it's not unlikely they're done with pre production and are about to enter full production, but this is just speculation. There's no real reason to believe that the studio has been mismanaged.

proportionally, Kena is very ambitious given the studio size and budget. We don't really know the scope and scale of PD but it's still obviously bigger than something like Kena, but doubtful it's similar to something open world like Horizon 2

horizon 2 has been shown in tangible form since 2020, will release in 5 years (which was also disappointing to me).

if the initiative releases their game in 2022, then maybe I'm wrong in my assessment. But bringing on board a third party to help develop the title 4 years in doesn't signify to me that this game will ship anytime before late 2024, which is 6 years - not a disaster for a new studio, but again it depends on the scale and quality. But maybe I'm wrong and CD's involvement isn't as much as the announcement seems to suggest.

To me, a perfect dark title doesn't need to be some game with huge open world scale, etc. thus, somewhat undeserving of such a long development cycle.

Regardless, it's good that they are getting additional support, but it probably should have been done in 2019.

something like team Kojima may be one of the better comparisons. That game had fairly big scope and released in 4 years. Doable if the project is efficiently managed. Again, I'm not saying PD will be be up bad or that I'm not happy they are realizing the game needs more help, but this could have easily been a 2022 release if it were the scale I expect and was managed fairly optimally.
 
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proportionally, Kena is very ambitious given the studio size and budget. We don't really know the scope and scale of PD but it's still obviously bigger than something like Kena, but doubtful it's similar to something open world like Horizon 2

horizon 2 has been shown in tangible form since 2020, will release in 5 years (which was also disappointing to me).

if the initiative releases their game in 2022, then maybe I'm wrong in my assessment. But bringing on board a third party to help develop the title 4 years in doesn't signify to me that this game will ship anytime before late 2024, which is 6 years - not a disaster for a new studio, but again it depends on the scale and quality. But maybe I'm wrong and CD's involvement isn't as much as the announcement seems to suggest.

To me, a perfect dark title doesn't need to be some game with huge open world scale, etc. thus, somewhat undeserving of such a long development cycle.

Regardless, it's good that they are getting additional support, but it probably should have been done in 2019.

something like team Kojima may be one of the better comparisons. That game had fairly big scope and released in 4 years. Doable if the project is efficiently managed. Again, I'm not saying PD will be be up bad or that I'm not happy they are realizing the game needs more help, but this could have easily been a 2022 release if it were the scale I expect and was managed fairly optimally.
so basically to read your points .....

"everything could be fine because I still don't know anything about the game nor the quality nor the scope .. I don't even know when they will release it, if they will be very valid by releasing it in 3/4 years or a little slower (understandable for a new study) 5/6 ...... but do you know what I do? I say that everything is bad they are certainly suffering production crisis and it's all a train wreck "
 
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no, but I at least expect them to have something tangible by this point

ember labs is a new studio and released one of the year's best games with very high quality production values in a similar timeframe with a vastly smaller core team.Yes, much work was outsourced, but this was apparently well managed from the very beginning. They had a strong vision, delegated the work to strong leads or outsourced groups, and executed.

I do not get the feeling that The Initiative has been well managed based upon what they have shown and relatively late announcement of fairly unprecedented third party support. Sometimes having a bunch of external hires that come from well pedigreed AAA backgrounds doesn't guarantee success or efficiency
The comparison with Kena doesn't really work. Ember Labs isn't a newly founded studio, and the game is much smaller in scope than an AAA shooter.

Your later comparison with Death Stranding is more fitting. That game was also announced 3.5 years before release, and it had roughly 3 years of full production. Just normal game dev stuff. I really don't get the concern ITT.
 
A lot of the usual people shitting up a thread with "opinions" based on zero fact to support them, even when there is clear data that speaks to the initiative being a idea factory, the game being playable, and ms wanting to work with the tomb raider team from the start.

Other then jaffe and a few other noting how this is an odd arrangement, your takeaway is always development hell when it comes to xbox?

Keep fighting the fight warriors. Xbox gamers are still getting a AAA game even if you try to claim this being some kind of negative situation.
 

It's something we are hearing more often these days: making video games is difficult. And the job isn't any easier during a pandemic and labor shortage. And while this reality is turning into a new normal, it is forcing many businesses to remain flexible in how they tackle their challenges. That's exactly the thinking that led Xbox Game Studios developer The Initiative to hire Crystal Dynamics as a support studio for Microsoft's upcoming Perfect Dark project, according to sources familiar with the move.

Development on Perfect Dark is in the process of ramping up. That was always the plan after a few years of pre-production and prototyping. But shifting into that higher gear is taking longer than Microsoft was hoping for. The Initiative needs talent, but it is difficult to quickly hire hundreds of skilled developers — especially during the pandemic. And the Initiative boss Darrell Gallagher was also concerned about team cohesion. It's challenging to get hundreds of people to work together at a high level on their first project together.

But Gallagher, who previously worked at Crystal Dynamics, still had strong connections to the studio and publisher Square Enix. He also deeply understands the capabilities of Crystal Dynamics. That led him to pitch all parties about a collaboration.

Microsoft executives see this as very similar to large, named studios like Certain Affinity working on the Master Chief Collection or Sega's Creative Assembly working on Halo Wars 2 or Sega's Relic working on Age of Empires 4.

In today's gaming market, this is a smart shortcut for Microsoft. Sure, it could go out and hire a full team immediately. That might include poaching talent from Crystal Dynamics. But renting that entire team is faster and more efficient.

Microsoft loves to announce things

While we see no indication that Perfect Dark is in trouble beyond the standard hurdles of publishing a game (like staffing), many fans came away from the announcement with concern. Perfect Dark and Xbox fans wondered why a studio built up like The Initiative would need help at all. And the announcement seemed strange to them.

But it's important to remember that the Xbox team loves announcing things. Microsoft has played the public-relations game really well for the last two years or so, and it viewed this as another chance to get Perfect Dark in the news. Crystal Dynamics will also start hiring for positions to work on Perfect Dark, so Microsoft and Square Enix wanted to get ahead of the press.

The companies involved did not expect the backlash or concern, and that's for good reason: They don't see anything strange about this collaboration. By all indications, Gallagher likely always suggested Crystal Dynamics as a possible partner — especially after that studio expanded with a new office in Austin. So this is also just executing on a vision for how to get Perfect Dark up and running and complete in the next few years.
 
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