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[Bernd Lauert]

This kind of reminds me of Crackdowns dev hell. There is actually a shortage of developers nowadays too.

Edit: I don't know why you're laughing Bernd Lauert . I mean in the sense that the studio/MS was talking about AAA and in this case AAAA and not producing anything for years then in the end they had to get another dev like Sumo and Crystal Dynamics in to cross the finish line.

I'm laughing about the concern trolling in this thread. The studio was founded in 2018, the game was announced in late 2020. But Team Sony here is acting like the game got announced five years ago and is now deep in development hell. I hope a scientist figures out a way to channel your concern into energy, it would solve a lot of problems

 

[Outrunner]

It standard practice here take a look at this even the mighty GOW need help.

That's a false equivalent, as it has been several times pointed out.

 

[Topher]

So... It's worst than outsourcing? They didn't just hire CD to make assets or some small consulting job, they hired them to help develop fondamental parts of the game? How can this be spinned into something positive?

The Initiative exists for many years, and they still require the hiring of a talented dev studio to make the game.

The common denominator between The Initiative and Crystal Dynamics is Darrel Gallagher. He ran CD and now he is running TI. So there are already close ties between the two studios. Yes, it could very well could be that TI is in need of assistance in making Perfect Dark. Let's be honest though. Crystal Dynamics hasn't exactly been on a roll since Gallagher left. They need a win and getting their name on the box for Perfect Dark working with their old chief isn't a bad thing. So if reuniting Gallagher and CD brings back the old magic the two had with TR then yeah, I'd say that is a positive. Admittedly, I'm being optimistic because I want this to be a great game, but I don't think we can assume this is somehow signs of shitstorm brewing either.

 

[FranXico]

Remember it was shown off before the PS4 was even released.

Not Days Gone, no.

Maybe what you remember was Dreams being shown off as a concept at the PS4 reveal before it even had a working title.

 

[XXL]

The dishonesty in this thread is mindblowing

 

[THEAP99]

 

[JackMcGunns]

They were like 80 people I thought? Thats what Studio bend was and they made fucking Days gone which was their first AAA home console game since Syphon Filter on PS2.



Well thats on Microsoft for literally announcing the game with a CG trailer before anything substantial was being done in its development. IT'S ALSO their fault for waiting a whole gen to fucking invest in studios. People have literally waited a whole fucking gen for Microsoft to step the fuck up. Only thing they could do was whip out their check books.

Now your seeing the difference in building studios for 20+ years , as opposed to buying them in the past couple years. Shit takes time, and looks like they need help.

Or on you for having unreasonable expectations. Sony does this shit all the time, but it's ok, the product is done when it's done. Games like The Last Guardian have transcended generations lol.

 

[MonarchJT]

Honestly this seems like a false equivalence

ok but no....try again

 

[MonarchJT]

have i to cite everyone leaving others studios ?

i did get that the usuals are trying hard to push a narrative but guys....isn't what u hope is just a 60/70 dev studio getting help from a top tier studio instead of outsourcing to mid range devs

 

[Riky]

I think in this case Microsoft was right to announce the game early, Perfect Dark fans have been waiting like 15 years hoping that the franchise would come back, so I was happy just to see it exists and is being worked on.
Also talking about "buying studios" when that clearly isn't the case here, as they funded a new studio.
I'm hoping the scope of the game got so big that they asked for funding and help and this seems a great way to do it considering the ties between the studios.
Good to see Spencer willing to put money into this franchise as he probably understands how important it is to fans.

 

[Heisenberg007]

yes u talking about studios who have 200 300 persons and then outsource. stop acting like 70 person can make a modern AAA it's no how it work and never did. The initiative stated from the start they prefeer to stay agile with a small group of person ..probably they're trying to work like this. there's nothing wrong doing it and nothing is going bad

When did I say it's a bad thing? It's not necessarily a bad thing. But smaller studios make AAA games all the time on their own.

• HouseMarque, a team of 60 people who don't even have any experience making a AAA game, just released Returnal.
• Supergiant Games , a team of 20 people, released Hades which puts most AAA games to shame.
• Bend Studios made Days Gone with a team of less than 100 people.
• Ember Labs, a team of 12 people, just released a fantastic game, Kena, that is very AAA-ish.
• 100-ish people at Sucker Punch Productions made Ghost of Tsushima, which also has an ongoing multiplayer game.
• Spider-Man PS was made by 150 developers.
• Control was developed and shipped by less than 100 people in 3 years.

It happens all the time. It is just The Initiative that could not make a game.

 

[Duchess]

Do we know if any key designers, personnel, etc. quit Zenimax after MS's acquisition? I'm sure there would've been resignations, for sure, but anyone of significance? That might explain the partnership.

 

[hlm666]

Do we know if any key designers, personnel, etc. quit Zenimax after MS's acquisition? I'm sure there would've been resignations, for sure, but anyone of significance? That might explain the partnership.

Yeh, all the devs who specialised in GNM at all zenimax studios.

 

[Three]

I'm laughing about the concern trolling in this thread. The studio was founded in 2018, the game was announced in late 2020. But Team Sony here is acting like the game got announced five years ago and is now deep in development hell. I hope a scientist figures out a way to channel your concern into energy, it would solve a lot of problems

I'm not concerned about the game being 'deep' in dev hell but the game was announced 2 years ago and the studio set up 4 years ago and it's now in 'early development' by another studio. It's clear that MS were not happy with the way things were progressing and hired outside help just like Crackdown and Sumo Digital. You're taking offence at that though. I'm curious to hear when you think this will release.

That scientist should do the same for your concern of sales for PS5 exclusives.

 

[Papacheeks]

Or on you for having unreasonable expectations. Sony does this shit all the time, but it's ok, the product is done when it's done. Games like The Last Guardian have transcended generations lol.

Yea, but it started on a hard to code platform, and was underpowered to begin with in what Ueda was trying to create. And Sony halted production on it as they were launching PS VITA. LIke they literally took people away from UEDA to work on other projects.

And honestly that game is really the only Outlier from Sony. And look at what they did to Japan studio? They literally closed that studio , beefed up Team Asobi which actually ships games in a timely manner that hit an actual audience. Called managing studios well.

Which obviously Microsoft has issues with and not just with New studios. Mainly their legacy studios. If your too blind to see that than to my ignore list you go. Lion head studios was shut down because of bad management. Not because their games didn't sell.

Which was the issue with Japan studio. Now we have Everwild being restarted as a project because the main creative left, Rod fergesson left Coalition and they are spread out helping 343, and trying to work on a new IP and gears 6. 343 is still managed terribly, hopefully Joe stanton puts them on a better path?

I hope im totally wrong on Initiative having issues.

 

[Riky]

Do we know if any key designers, personnel, etc. quit Zenimax after MS's acquisition? I'm sure there would've been resignations, for sure, but anyone of significance? That might explain the partnership.

Why do people keep saying this? Zenimax studios would have their own timeline of development before MS even purchased them. Getting one of those studios with no previous links to The Initiative to help would just delay something else.

 

[Leo9]

I'm not concerned about the game being 'deep' in dev hell but the game was announced 2 years ago and the studio set up 4 years ago and it's now in 'early development' by another studio. It's clear that MS were not happy with the way things were progressing and hired outside help just like Crackdown and Sumo Digital. You're taking offence at that though. I'm curious to hear when you think this will release.

That scientist should do the same for your concern of sales for PS5 exclusives.

The game was announced last December, 9 months ago.

 

[JackMcGunns]

I think in this case Microsoft was right to announce the game early, Perfect Dark fans have been waiting like 15 years hoping that the franchise would come back, so I was happy just to see it exists and is being worked on.
Also talking about "buying studios" when that clearly isn't the case here, as they funded a new studio.
I'm hoping the scope of the game got so big that they asked for funding and help and this seems a great way to do it considering the ties between the studios.
Good to see Spencer willing to put money into this franchise as he probably understands how important it is to fans.

This right here.

 

[Chukhopops]

I'm not concerned about the game being 'deep' in dev hell but the game was announced 2 years ago and the studio set up 4 years ago and it's now in 'early development' by another studio. It's clear that MS were not happy with the way things were progressing and hired outside help just like Crackdown and Sumo Digital. You're taking offence at that though. I'm curious to hear when you think this will release.

That scientist should do the same for your concern of sales for PS5 exclusives.

TGA 2020 wasn't even one year ago, the game was announced on December 11th 2020.

 

[Punished Miku]

I have zero hype for Perfect Dark at all. Not that into FPS games at all.

I guess we'll see what happens. I enjoyed the original in 1963, and it was great for its time.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

I'm not concerned about the game being 'deep' in dev hell but the game was announced 2 years ago and the studio set up 4 years ago and it's now in 'early development' by another studio.

The game was announced 9 months ago. The studio was founded 3 years ago from the ground up. And the game is not in development by another studio.

 

[oldergamer]

I agree that this is a bit strange to see two publishers collaborating. it could be a case that MS worked out a financial deal with them to do it, or had an existing one.

Or it could be MS are in talks to buy them and they didn't want to wait until a deal was finished to work together. MS has had a pretty close relationship with Edios & CD. For all we know Square is looking to sell them off.

 

[Duchess]

Why do people keep saying this? Zenimax studios would have their own timeline of development before MS even purchased them.

That's not what I'm asking. People tend to resign from companies when buyouts and such happen. Buyouts can result in employees have salaries cut, pensions adjusted, holidays reduce, hours extended, etc., and some positions become redundant because there is a surplus of managers, for example.

It's not unreasonable to expect that some personnel would prefer to remain 3rd party rather than 1st party, and sought employment elsewhere.

Working for big companies can be exceptionally shitty.

But maybe everyone was happy and stayed. That's all.

 

[Kerotan]

How is this game still considered "early development" from that tweet by The Initiative? Studio was formed 3 years ago, starting to push 4 years ago next year. I wonder when actual gameplay gets shown?

Like some of us said when they were formed you could be looking at a long ass time.

 

[On Demand]

Sony getting outside support from independent companies for asset creation is completely different than getting help from another development studio that's also probably involved with the game design.

Sony also has tons of support studios they own. Visual Arts Service Group being the biggest and well known.

 

[martino]

 

[Riky]

That's not what I'm asking. People tend to resign from companies when buyouts and such happen. Buyouts can result in employees have salaries cut, pensions adjusted, holidays reduce, hours extended, etc., and some positions become redundant because there is a surplus of managers, for example.

It's not unreasonable to expect that some personnel would prefer to remain 3rd party rather than 1st party, and sought employment elsewhere.

Working for big companies can be exceptionally shitty.

But maybe everyone was happy and stayed. That's all.

What's that got to do with Perfect Dark?

 

[Three]

To everyone replying about TGA. Ok The game was officially announced then but the game was official and in dev internally way before then. It was almost an open secret.

Rumour: A New Perfect Dark Game Is In Development, But Rare Isn't Involved

And it's not for a Nintendo system, obviously

www.nintendolife.com

The Intiative's Xbox Series X Game Details Leak

A LinkedIn profile for a developer no longer working for The Initiative reveals some early details about the unannounced next-gen game.

gamerant.com

It sure sounds like The Initiative is working on a new Perfect Dark

Recent details about The Initiative's next project appear to indicate that the studio could be working on a new Perfect Dark game.

www.vg247.com

 

[SSfox]

Is MS planning to C18 Crystal?

 

[Punished Miku]

Is MS planning to C18 Crystal?

Probably should. Someone needs to save them from Marvel.

 

[Godot25]

And that is why it is better to buy a established studio and not creating a new one.

So you are not in a situation that you are entering full bulk of production of your game and you have 70 devs which are not enough by AAA standards.

I'm sure COVID didn't help hiring process and growth, but unless The Initiative wants to do this style of development (small team which will lay out foundation of a game and then they will bring other dev for production) this is strange situation.

But wtf is going on in Square Enix? They are (from the looks of it) forced to take money for exclusivity of Forspoken and FF XVI for quick buck, their "sure hit game" Avengers bombed and they are now lending their developers to other company? I wouldn't be surprised it they let go of both Crystal Dynamics and Eidos Montreal soon...

 

[Ozriel]

Looking at Insomniac's output, mid or late 2024.

looking at Insomniac's output, probably 2025.

 

[elliot5]

Relic is owned by SEGA and is making AOE4. This is similar. Who cares how they describe it (co develop). It's still outsourcing

 

[abacab driver]

When the game is shown and blows everyone away, all the people hating on this collaboration will be saying: "Ok this is good but what can the Initiative do WITHOUT Crystal Dynamics though?"

 

[Castef]

- Hey Square Enix, here's money for helping us develop Perfect Dark
- Thanks a lot! We'll immediately use them to develop more games for PC, PlayStation and Switch.

 

[Vognerful]

When the game is shown and blows everyone away, all the people hating on this collaboration will be saying: "Ok this is good but what can the Initiative do WITHOUT Crystal Dynamics though?"

People forgot that animators were running away from naught dog during development of TLOU2 that they had to recruit movie animators. At the end, the game came out to be a masterpiece.

 

[THEAP99]

Next week at Xbox game studios:

Ninja Theory and CDPROJEKT RED are joining forces to help excel the production of Senua's Saga: Hellblade II.

 

[ElCasual]

So the next acquisition is Square Enix? Will be made sense, you quit the Japanese RPG for the Playstation players.

 

[jigglet]

This game better be a reboot after how bad the story was in PD64.

I actually still have my mint copy somewhere.

 

[Silent Viper]

It is, and that studio specifically is aiding in asset creation, not game designing. Thats obviously being done in house. ANd we've seen a good amount of gameplay from God of war.

What have we seen from Perfect dark? And why were leads leaving? Maybe they are at a good milestone and now are ramping up?

I don't know? Just seems odd of just hearing about it now. Valkyrie Entertainment worked on original god of war as well for assets.

What do u know about who designing what in PD reboot. Concept and story already laid down. Its the other stuff CD will help and its still First person as Initiative announced it not 3rd person.

Initiative team is less than 100 and they were not able to pull enough people to complete project in time, so that's why Darrell called his folks from CD

 

[Silent Viper]

So... It's worst than outsourcing? They didn't just hire CD to make assets or some small consulting job, they hired them to help develop fondamental parts of the game? How can this be spinned into something positive?

The Initiative exists for many years, and they still require the hiring of a talented dev studio to make the game.

Late 2018 Initiative was officially announced.
PD was announced last year.


AAA games from scratch takes 5 to 6 years plus lot big team and Initiative is less than 100. So CD joining but creative head is still Darrell

 

[Papacheeks]

Late 2018 Initiative was officially announced.
PD was announced last year.


AAA games from scratch takes 5 to 6 years plus lot big team and Initiative is less than 100. So CD joining but creative head is still Darrell

Game was in concept way before The Initiative announcement. Also a lead leaving and going back shows people not melding well, so I think you are right with Darrell contacting CD to have them help. WHich to me means this game is 2024 at the earliest.

And to me I feel MS should have kept their mouths shut and not announced anything. Making a announcement usually signifies a game already heavily in production or is far along enough to talk about it in some capacity. At this point feels like they had a early vertical slice and to make the full game need CD's help.

 

[R3claimer117]

The stupidity in this thread is amazing. People act as if crystal dynamics is being forced to work with Microsoft. They obviously want to do this also. Wouldn't surprise me if this is a bigger play to get acquired by Microsoft for them instead of being with square that could see Microsoft buying them along with the tomb raider IP and folding them into the initiative. People want them to pull their other studios off projects to then say where's those games at like the stupidity is on a whole different level. Then you have someone asking who quit zenimax cause Microsoft bought them you think they didn't know they were being bought out or they just did a hostile takeover? Like why's this asked for Microsoft but not Sony do you think developers leave Sony studios cause they bought them?

 

[Silent Viper]

Does Mojang really have 688 employees?
That's pretty crazy for a dev house that does so little, they should be able to shed 600 of them and still be overstaffed for what they do.

Minecraft makes billions every year, so makes sense

Biggest Waste is 343 lol

 

[Thirty7ven]

The stupidity in this thread is amazing. People act as if crystal dynamics is being forced to work with Microsoft. They obviously want to do this also. Wouldn't surprise me if this is a bigger play to get acquired by Microsoft for them instead of being with square that could see Microsoft buying them along with the tomb raider IP and folding them into the initiative. People want them to pull their other studios off projects to then say where's those games at like the stupidity is on a whole different level.

I see what you did there. Amazing is good therefore you kept the levels up.

 

[Silent Viper]

The stupidity in this thread is amazing. People act as if crystal dynamics is being forced to work with Microsoft. They obviously want to do this also. Wouldn't surprise me if this is a bigger play to get acquired by Microsoft for them instead of being with square that could see Microsoft buying them along with the tomb raider IP and folding them into the initiative. People want them to pull their other studios off projects to then say where's those games at like the stupidity is on a whole different level. Then you have someone asking who quit zenimax cause Microsoft bought them you think they didn't know they were being bought out or they just did a hostile takeover? Like why's this asked for Microsoft but not Sony do you think developers leave Sony studios cause they bought them?

Bro you know these fanboys got nothing else to do in life right?

 

[Heisenberg007]

And that is why it is better to buy a established studio and not creating a new one.

So you are not in a situation that you are entering full bulk of production of your game and you have 70 devs which are not enough by AAA standards.

I'm sure COVID didn't help hiring process and growth, but unless The Initiative wants to do this style of development (small team which will lay out foundation of a game and then they will bring other dev for production) this is strange situation.

But wtf is going on in Square Enix? They are (from the looks of it) forced to take money for exclusivity of Forspoken and FF XVI for quick buck, their "sure hit game" Avengers bombed and they are now lending their developers to other company? I wouldn't be surprised it they let go of both Crystal Dynamics and Eidos Montreal soon...

Not necessarily. They bought Ninja Theory, and they are going through the same stuff: three years and the game is still in pre-production.

Most of it just comes down to project management.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Bro you know these fanboys got nothing else to do in life right?

There's only time for dreaming about acquisitions.

What this news means is that The Initiative isn't ready for a big project in a franchise they have to reinvent, and MS is paying Square Enix for The Initiative old colleagues to help.

The Initiative has already lost key talent to the studios they came from. Read the leaves.

 

[Andodalf]

- Hey Square Enix, here's money for helping us develop Perfect Dark
- Thanks a lot! We'll immediately use them to develop more games for PC, PlayStation and Switch.

Oh boy. I bet you're steaming about how Sony paid for Ninja Theory to make Hellblade exclusive, and now the sequel is only coming to Xbox!

 

[ShaikhCroft]

Darell wouldn't feel more comfortable than working with his ex colleagues. If this partnership gives us something spectacular then gamers are the winners at the end. What's to fuss about it?

And I don't think there would be a better partner than CD. I just still hope they are also working on the next big Tomb Raider as well!