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[Grinchy]

I'd imagine a lot of your soul income would be from getting summoned into other worlds to help a brother out.

Which sounds smart to me as it encourages co-op play. It's no fun standing around in a single area just waiting and hoping to see a summon sign.

 

[Baldwin_the_First]

I'm still perplexed as to why people still pre-order online if they expect / need to have it day one. You can't beat brick-and-mortar stores if you need it right away.

Amazon had it for 59,99$(no taxes) instead of 69,99$(no taxes) at regular stores. Plus I had just pre-ordered the bluray set for Game Of Thrones season 3 and had just received it a day before the actual official release. So I was pumped and made the pre-order whitout thinking a second more, and for good reasons.

Good enough for you? lol

 

[Listonosh]

The finite respawning is one of the things that worry me the most, forced pvp being the second. I can imagine being stuck in your position, which seems to be a dead end. Can you move to a different area or are you totally stuck in there until you can find a way to kill the boss?

Yeah I tried going a different route, but so far all the previously locked doors that I could now unlock led me to areas that didnt lead to new bosses.

 

[ironcreed]

Didnt FROM said that DS2 would be more open and that you could skip entire areas if you were good enough or something like that?

Yeah, I have heard people say the level design is still intricately linked like before where you open shortcuts, etc. Seemed that way to me in streams as well.

 

[LurkerPrime]

[...]
It's also important to note that Dark Souls II world isn't open like DkS1. It is very much linear with a lot of gear gating, so it's not like I can say, well fuck that boss, I'll go to a different area and return once I'm better, because there are no other areas. There might be a few with dead ends and some extra items to find, but not ones that actually lead to other boss doors. I loved being dropped in Firelink shrine, not knowing where to go, and even though technically only one was was the correct way, there was nothing stopping me from exploring the other areas. Hell, if I wanted to, I could go to Blighttown immediately after Firelink, assuming I had the Master Key.
[...]

I really enjoyed the "open world" aspect of Dark Souls, so I'm very disappointed to hear it's almost nonexistent. This change will make subsequent runs a lot less interesting. Although I don't agree with this change, I hope it ends up improving the game; maybe it will make the game much more focused and intense, or somesuch.

And by the way, thanks for your impressions!

 

[Grinchy]

I'm still perplexed as to why people still pre-order online if they expect / need to have it day one. You can't beat brick-and-mortar stores if you need it right away.

Amazon has never once failed me on a release date delivery. I would have done DS2 through Amazon too but they were sold out by the time I was ready to order. Now I have to drive my ass to Best Buy to pick up an order. But that could work out well if they E-mail me early in the morning to say they have it ready.

 

[oroboros]

So after playing a bunch this weekend, I've noticed an inherent problem with the game's mechanics which some were already touched upon here, but I wonder if people agree with me (those who have the game) or think otherwise....

I actually like this because I don't think these games should be like other RPGs where you can just grind and max out stats/gear and just dominate or 1 shot bosses even if you actually still suck at the mechanics of the actual gameplay or don't take the time to figure out each encounter. So maybe FROM made something that sounds like it should make the game easier, no respawns, but it actually makes it more difficult for the real tricky enemies because no grinding brute force your way out. Damn, I don't know what to think anymore about all these new mechanics and systems just want this game deep inside me ASAP.

 

[Listonosh]

I'd imagine a lot of your soul income would be from getting summoned into other worlds to help a brother out.

Oh yeah! That's definitely true, or from being invaded and winning. I do remember a lot of people saying they would play the game without summoning other players for help, which I think in this game is suicide.

 

[CountAntonius]

Dang I spent a lot of time grinding the forest hunters for souls in Dark Souls.

 

[F0rneus]

Dang I spent a lot of time grinding the forest hunters for souls in Dark Souls.

I did that too. Legit. No cliff jumping. Like a true bro/sis.

 

[Visceir]

Yeah I tried going a different route, but so far all the previously locked doors that I could now unlock led me to areas that didnt lead to new bosses.

There are different routes you can take that lead you to new bosses, trust me. The game is quite open and does have multiple paths you can choose from.

 

[Zeliard]

Enemy limitation is something I personally don't mind, at least on paper, as it will remove the emphasis on grinding zones and turn progression into more of a skill-based affair.

The world not being as open as DaS1 and apparently containing a lot of gating, however, is quite concerning and it was my biggest worry with the bonfire warping.

 

[ironcreed]

I must've missed something, in what way does it have finite enemies? Doesn't everything reset after a bonfire visit anymore?

They apparently stop spawning after a certain amount of times, but I have not seen this in play yet. When this happens, you can kindle bonfires with an item called 'fire ascetic' that makes the enemies respawn in that area, but it makes them harder. Sounds like they are adding balance for people who try to abuse leveling.

 

[Apdiddy]

I wish Amazon would ship my copy so I could stop worrying about when I'll get my copy

Just finished up a DS1 run, will be my last for a long, long time assuming DSII isn't completely awful. Going in almost completely blind, besides some screenshots and about ten seconds of a stream in a moment of weakness.

I did a chat with Amazon customer support and they gave me free two-day delivery (initially it would be a week later). YMMV.

 

[Ceaseless Discharge]

Just cancelled my order for the book and the game. Too much negativity to go in blind on release day, despite Demons's and Dark being my fave games of all time. DSII just has potential stinker written all over it.

 

[Baldwin_the_First]

If it's for release day delivery, they usually ship it out the day before.

Well, I took the 2 day shipping from Prime that estimated the delivery to be arrived on the release date. Not sure if that's the same as "release day delivery".

 

[Listonosh]

And by the way, thanks for your impressions!

No problem! It's been exhausting for me, tried 4 different character so far to see which playstyle I like best, and definitely seemed to get the furthest with Sorcerer. But I say exhausting not because of the amount of players and progression I made, but more so because of the anguish of dying over and over and over and over and over and over... well you get the point. Hey, it's still Dark Souls! Those worried about the game being easier can rest easy.

 

[kamorra]

You will be fine when summons show up. In the meanwhile try going to other areas in order to get items and stuff.

I have the same problem with no areas with enemys left. It's a shitty system.

 

[Ateron]

Just a thought. If you only have 15x to kill enemies, and you keep killing them but die and fail to retrieve your souls on a subsequent run, those souls are lost forever. So you could, technically be good enough to keep killing them but then, by accident or something, lose all of them. Then you're stuck without way to level up and with a boss to face. The system seems to work well as a cap, so you don't go to a boss fight super overpowered, which I find interesting, but you can also go to said fight pretty damn underpowered.

It's possible to beat DS on soul level 1, but not everyone has that skill, and besides, equipment requires souls and materials to upgrade, so you have to have enemies to farm them. There's the online co-op/pvp to balance things out but for those without internet connection it doesn't work. The "get gud" line doesn't work. If a boss can two shot you ,cause you don't have the souls to upgrade your armor/shield, nor healing items is it really your fault?

Keep the enemies respawning after 15, make them give less or no souls, but up their drop rate. That way a compromise would be reached - no more souls for grinding, but more healing items in the inventory to help a little.

 

[ironcreed]

Just cancelled my order for the book and the game. Too much negativity to go in blind on release day, despite Demons's and Dark being my fave games of all time. DSII just has potential stinker written all over it.

Dang, man. Sorry you feel that way. Maybe you will change your mind down the road.

 

[Listonosh]

I must've missed something, in what way does it have finite enemies? Doesn't everything reset after a bonfire visit anymore?

Yeah I haven't counted exactly, but some people here said 15 times, which makes sense to me. Basically the route that I would take to get to a boss which had like 15 enemies, is now completely empty, from start of bonfire to the boss gate.

 

[Jigorath]

Question:

Spoiler

Do bonfire ascetics respawn enemies after they've been depleted?

 

[SJRB]

They apparently stop spawning after a certain amount of times, but I have not seen this in play yet. When this happens, you can kindle bonfires with an item called 'fire ascetic' that makes the enemies respawn in that area, but it makes them harder. Sounds like they are adding balance for people who try to abuse leveling.

Hmm.. Didn't know that. Kind of clever I guess, I wonder how it's balanced in terms of cutoff treshold.

 

[fedexpeon]

Crap crap crap...what should I do?
Cancel the Black Armor edition or get the regular one...dammit.
Amazon still hasn't ship my order, and I ordered this thing in September.
/Sigh.

 

[Seance]

Enemy limitation is something I personally don't mind, at least on paper, as it will remove the emphasis on grinding zones and turn progression into more of a skill-based affair.

The world not being as open as DaS1 and apparently containing a lot of gating, however, is quite concerning and it was my biggest worry with the bonfire warping.

The latter caused the former. So as it is with all games with such travel systems.

 

[Ateron]

I did that too. Legit. No cliff jumping. Like a true bro/sis.

Wait, was there a way to cheese that part? -_-' I always fought them fair and square. It was an effective place to grind all the way up till the end, painted world gave a bit more souls but it got tedious after a while.

First thing I did when starting new chars for pvp or co-op was farming 20k and buy the seal so I could get there as soon as possible.

 

[Necromanti]

If they are discouraging grinding to cheese the game, then I will be entirely unaffected as I beat the game at level 25. Learning the boss patterns inside-out was more satisfying versus when I see people getting hit several times and making multiple mistakes with next to no consequences.

 

[eot]

The limited respawns sound like they make losing your bloodstain much more painful. In DkS you could always farm more souls, here not so much.

 

[Baldwin_the_First]

Crap crap crap...what should I do?
Cancel the Black Armor edition or get the regular one...dammit.
Amazon still hasn't ship my order, and I ordered this thing in September.
/Sigh.

Yep, that's because amazon still hasn't received any Dark Souls games to ship, yet. Just finished talking with customer service not too long ago, very disapointing.

 

[UnObtainium17]

They apparently stop spawning after a certain amount of times, but I have not seen this in play yet. When this happens, you can kindle bonfires with an item called 'fire ascetic' that makes the enemies respawn in that area, but it makes them harder. Sounds like they are adding balance for people who try to abuse leveling.

Wow. Kinda seems pointless now that people can have 99999999999999 souls in no time thru a hack. I wish they just left it as is.

 

[Listonosh]

Just a thought. If you only have 15x to kill enemies, and you keep killing them but die and fail to retrieve your souls on a subsequent run, those souls are lost forever. So you could, technically be good enough to keep killing them but then, by accident or something, lose all of them. Then you're stuck without way to level up and with a boss to face. The system seems to work well as a cap, so you don't go to a boss fight super overpowered, which I find interesting, but you can also go to said fight pretty damn underpowered.

It's possible to beat DS on soul level 1, but not everyone has that skill, and besides, equipment requires souls and materials to upgrade, so you have to have enemies to farm them. There's the online co-op/pvp to balance things out but for those without internet connection it doesn't work. The "get gud" line doesn't work. If a boss can two shot you ,cause you don't have the souls to upgrade your armor/shield, nor healing items is it really your fault?

Keep the enemies respawning after 15, make them give less or no souls, but up their drop rate. That way a compromise would be reached - no more souls for grinding, but more healing items in the inventory to help a little.

Yeah that's pretty much exactly how I feel too. I have a friend who breezes through DkS1 and most likely will do a lot better than I did in DkS2, without needing to grind. I however found that grinding in a few areas of the first game allowed me to "get gud" enough to finally beat a boss I previously couldn't, just because I wasn't two shotted this time, or maybe get enough endurance to get out of mid roll and into fast roll. Here however, I just feel like I'm literally stuck, until I can get help from another player. This boss fight I'm at is no joke but I imagine most of them aren't

 

[F0rneus]

Wait, was there a way to cheese that part? -_-'

You can trick the AI into collective suicide on the cliffs near the door. But that's weaksauce. I wait until I can slaughter them before farming.

 

[Jobbs]

It's also important to note that Dark Souls II world isn't open like DkS1. It is very much linear with a lot of gear gating, so it's not like I can say, well fuck that boss, I'll go to a different area and return once I'm better, because there are no other areas. There might be a few with dead ends and some extra items to find, but not ones that actually lead to other boss doors. I loved being dropped in Firelink shrine, not knowing where to go, and even though technically only one was was the correct way, there was nothing stopping me from exploring the other areas. Hell, if I wanted to, I could go to Blighttown immediately after Firelink, assuming I had the Master Key.

I'm utterly perplexed by this part. What you're saying is basically the 100% polar opposite of what everyone's been saying about DkS2 and what From itself has said about their design goals with DkS2. Elaborate?

 

[Listonosh]

The limited respawns sound like they make losing your bloodstain much more painful. In DkS you could always farm more souls, here not so much.

Exactly! That's actually something I meant to include in my post too. Losing your Retrieval after like 10 runs due to a stupid mistake means all those souls are forever gone. Goodbye levels.

 

[semiconscious]

So after playing a bunch this weekend, I've noticed an inherent problem with the game's mechanics which some were already touched upon here, but I wonder if people agree with me (those who have the game) or think otherwise.

The biggest issue for me is the finite monster count. I'm at a part with my Sorcerer where I have to fight

Spoiler

3 bosses at once

. So I thought, well I need to up my INT a little more, definitely more health, and probably more DEX so I can cast more than three times before resting. So I run through the usual area from the bonfire to the boss area which gives me a decent amount of souls, so I basically had to do about 2-3 runs per 1 level attained.

This is all peachy, except when the monsters become extinct. There goes my way of grinding to get slightly better stats so I can stand a chance in this boss fight. But there is a bigger problem, estus flasks and lifegems. As you all probably know, you start with

Spoiler

only 1 estus flask

and then

Spoiler

get more through shards

which wouldn't much be a problem if Lifegem drops were better. But after feeling confident and actually getting near the end of the boss fight, I used up all of my lifegems, and ended up dying. Goodbye lifegems. At this point I still only have

Spoiler

two estus flasks left

. Now I'm stuck not being able to farm souls to level, and also not being able to farm lifegems so I can stay alive longer. So no soul income, no lifegem income. I'm basically stuck. To top it all off, each time you die and you don't regain your humanity, you lose a percentage of your overall life bar. Cool, that encourages players to actually play as an undead and not as a hollow the whole time, except if the items that you needed to turn back weren't so damn limited in the game. By the 20th time I tried that same bossfight, no lifegems, no human effigies, and my health bar at 50% because I couldn't unhollow, and no farming. Doesn't anyone else see the problem here?

Now of course the argument here could be, "Just get better bitch" and yeah I agree, I felt like one of the early bosses was a bit unfair until I defeated him after about 10 times trying feeling really good about myself, but damn From, why take the option of farming away from me?

It's also important to note that Dark Souls II world isn't open like DkS1. It is very much linear with a lot of gear gating, so it's not like I can say, well fuck that boss, I'll go to a different area and return once I'm better, because there are no other areas. There might be a few with dead ends and some extra items to find, but not ones that actually lead to other boss doors. I loved being dropped in Firelink shrine, not knowing where to go, and even though technically only one was was the correct way, there was nothing stopping me from exploring the other areas. Hell, if I wanted to, I could go to Blighttown immediately after Firelink, assuming I had the Master Key.

Gameplay wise the game is fantastic, and every bit as good as its perfect predecessor, but these odd changes to finite monsters, to an overly stupid system that requires me to travel to a certain area each time just to spend my souls to level, are so far holding the game back from winning me over from DkS1.

Also, if anyone feels like this should be in the Spoilers thread, please just let me know and I'll take it down. Just figured I'd seen some mechanics talk here before.

thanks for the great post. & good luck, man...

as with a few other 'improvements', this falls into the 'fixing what isn't broken' category. &, yeah, it's disappointing that these completely unnecessary changes were made...

 

[F0rneus]

I'm utterly perplexed by this part. What you're saying is basically the 100% polar opposite of what everyone's been saying about DkS2 and what From itself has said about their design goals with DkS2. Elaborate?

I mean I haven't played the game so I can't judge but from the streams, the game is much more open than Dark Souls. You stumble into new areas and paths much more often.

 

[Listonosh]

I'm utterly perplexed by this part. What you're saying is basically the 100% polar opposite of what everyone's been saying about DkS2 and what From itself has said about their design goals with DkS2. Elaborate?

Well I don't want to go into spoiler territory here, but from Majula, there is literally one way you can go. From there, there is one way to reach the next boss and so on to the next boss, and then the next. There are a few sidepaths like I mentioned which have some hidden items and such, but lead to dead ends.

However, and this is a very important thing to note, it might be that the game opens up a lot more after a certain part in the game, and so far all I've been experiencing thus far is the more linear stage.

 

[Ateron]

If they are discouraging grinding to cheese the game, then I will be entirely unaffected as I beat the game at level 25. Learning the boss patterns inside-out was more satisfying versus when I see people getting hit several times and making multiple mistakes with next to no consequences.

Lvl is not an accurate metric in this game. You could have a 50lvl character in this game and still be underpowered compared to a lvl 25. Like I said, equipment makes a lot more difference than lvl in this game. A lvl 25 wearing a fully upgraded armor set with a kick ass shield and +15 weapon (or chaos/lightning weapon) deal a lot more damage than a lvl 50 with basic gear, so.

But I get what you're saying. Learn your enemy and you won't be hit by it, thus rendering stats/armor useless. But not everyone has the time/dedication to face the same boss 10x just to learn all their patterns by heart.

I've only tried it with artorias and manus, fighting them with zero armor just to cap my lvl a bit, artificially. And it's glorious when you can kill them and barely get hit at all, but it requires a lot of patience till you get it right.

 

[Zaventem]

Well I don't want to go into spoiler territory here, but from Majula, there is literally one way you can go. From there, there is one way to reach the next boss and so on to the next boss, and then the next. There are a few sidepaths like I mentioned which have some hidden items and such, but lead to dead ends.

However, and this is a very important thing to note, it might be that the game opens up a lot more after a certain part in the game, and so far all I've been experiencing thus far is the more linear stage.

But there isn't? lol i think you didn't see the other way.

 

[Ceaseless Discharge]

I always enjoyed "grinding" because the combat mechanics felt so damn great. Absolutely loved doing tours of the burg, depths, sen's etc, just purely because the level design was so amazing and the combat was so fun and satisfying. That WAS Dark Souls to me, revisiting areas, refining my combat, repeating and improving my skills. Can't believe that's so limited in DSII.

 

[Listonosh]

But I get what you're saying. Learn your enemy and you won't be hit by hit, thus rendering stats/armor useless. But not everyone has the time/dedication to face the same boss 10x just to learn all their patterns by heart.

Also, I'm sure this is also common knowledge by now, but rolling out of the way doesn't make you invulnerable as long as you do it in the right frame like in the first game. If you dodge into the swing of the weapon, you're getting hit. Makes sense in a "realistic" sort of way, but damn after being used to rolling in the Dks1, this is one of the biggest gameplay changes that I can't quite figure out yet.

 

[Zeliard]

Exactly! That's actually something I meant to include in my post too. Losing your Retrieval after like 10 runs due to a stupid mistake means all those souls are forever gone. Goodbye levels.

This sounds good to me. Dying before you get back to your bloodstain should be a big deal, to the point where the trek back there should be tense and exciting.

It seems like it will also encourage the player not to just sit on a ton of souls and instead spend them often. If it weren't for the respec option, this would make level up choices far more meaningful than they were in the first two games.

 

[Listonosh]

But there isn't? lol i think you didn't see the other way.

Are we talking about the way that's locked by some sort of mechanism? Even after buying the mechanism key, it apparently wasn't for that mechanism, so I couldn't go that way.

 

[Jobbs]

Well I don't want to go into spoiler territory here,

From an interview last year: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...-will-be-more-open-ended-than-its-predecessor

"We realise in Dark Souls 1 there were some certain orders, like ringing the bells or going to Anor Londo, which is not necessarily a bad thing," he continued. "In Dark Souls 2, we're hoping we can provide more freedom so things don't have to necessarily be done in a certain order."

"The sequel will be so open-ended that foolhardy or experienced players could go straight into the more challenging stages. "We're hoping that if the player tries hard enough, or are willing enough, they could even start halfway through the game, depending on how willing or how brave they are," Tanimura added.

So, again, what the fuck?

 

[The perfect Dark]

I always enjoyed "grinding" because the combat mechanics felt so damn great. Absolutely loved doing tours of the burg, depths, sen's etc, just purely because the level design was so amazing and the combat was so fun and satisfying. That WAS Dark Souls to me, revisiting areas, refining my combat, repeating and improving my skills. Can't believe that's so limited in DSII.

This. I don't get it,

 

[SeventhSon]

Exactly! That's actually something I meant to include in my post too. Losing your Retrieval after like 10 runs due to a stupid mistake means all those souls are forever gone. Goodbye levels.

If you need souls, put down your summon sign and help kill bosses. That's the best way.

 

[deddonpachi]

so many unmarked spoilers ;_;

 

[Listonosh]

So, again, what the fuck?

Interesting, I remember reading those too, I just don't see it! Or at least not in the way they're making it out to be.

 

[Ateron]

Also, I'm sure this is also common knowledge by now, but rolling out of the way doesn't make you invulnerable as long as you do it in the right frame like in the first game. If you dodge into the swing of the weapon, you're getting hit. Makes sense in a "realistic" sort of way, but damn after being used to rolling in the Dks1, this is one of the biggest gameplay changes that I can't quite figure out yet.

That makes sense, though it's gonna take a while till we get used to the new mechanics..
I wonder if raising adaptability can help in that instance. From one of the few videos I saw from the beta - the guy was simply dumping points in agility - and at a certain point he was able to lift his shield so fast that it could break a greatsword stagger, in between strikes, where before he could never do that. Maybe adaptability will increase our i-frames the more points we dump on it..

 

[badnewsbeers]

I have to say, I haven't legitimately been as excited about a game launch in a long time. I'm sure the inevitable frustration will set in as I die and get irritated, but for now, I am basking in the wait.