Support NeoGAF

[Listonosh]

so many unmarked spoilers ;_;

Ah! I'm so sorry, I was trying to be so good with Spoiler tags in my original post, but now I'm just so pumped talking about the game with all of you that I just let myself go. I'll be more vigilant

 

[Jobbs]

The game's at once far more linear than Dark 1 and far more open than Dark 1, depending on what you read or who you listen to. I guess this week will be a week of discoveries.

 

[Snapshot King]

Interesting, I remember reading those too, I just don't see it! Or at least not in the way they're making it out to be.

The gamespot preview footage has Ken Van Ord going straight from a new game into an area through Majula that is not the "starting" zone. You clearly missed something.

 

[Listonosh]

The gamespot preview footage has Ken Van Ord going straight from a new game into an area through Majula that is not the "starting" zone. You clearly missed something.

dammit I suck...

 

[ironcreed]

I always enjoyed "grinding" because the combat mechanics felt so damn great. Absolutely loved doing tours of the burg, depths, sen's etc, just purely because the level design was so amazing and the combat was so fun and satisfying. That WAS Dark Souls to me, revisiting areas, refining my combat, repeating and improving my skills. Can't believe that's so limited in DSII.

I can't really argue with that. And on top of souls, sometimes you actually need to do those tours to farm humanity, titanite shards or whatever you might need. It was a system that just worked and made the Souls games what they were to a degree. I would probably prefer it that way as well, but I am not going to knock the changes until I experience how everything works for myself.

 

[KennyLinder]

I always enjoyed "grinding" because the combat mechanics felt so damn great. Absolutely loved doing tours of the burg, depths, sen's etc, just purely because the level design was so amazing and the combat was so fun and satisfying. That WAS Dark Souls to me, revisiting areas, refining my combat, repeating and improving my skills. Can't believe that's so limited in DSII.

Same here. 300 hours of Dark Souls and I loved just playing the game, revisiting areas for hours and hours because the combat was so damn satisfying. If you're saying this has now effectively been taken out of the game, that is a huge disappointment to me. One of the things I loved so much about Dark Souls was respawning enemies.

Hold on, I bet they have done it because people complain that when they die at a boss constantly they have to kill all the enemies again. So, die 15 times (or whatever the number is), and the enemies don't respawn. Fuck that, that was part of the game.

I am so concerned that they're going to fuck this game up I don't know if I even want to play it. The more I read the more worried I get.

 

[cerulily]

I'm shocked some people pre-ordered and are only finding out about spawn limiting NOW. This has been known for weeks if not months already. I think it was in one of Vaati's earlier dark souls 2 impressions videos.

If you like the combat and want to grind, isn't that the whole point to moving to NG+?

 

[Kensuke]

How do you get there? Spoiler tags please.

Spoiler

Follow the tunnel next to the house with the talking cat.

 

[KennyLinder]

I'm shocked some people pre-ordered and are only finding out about spawn limiting NOW. This has been known for weeks if not months already. I think it was in one of Vaati's earlier dark souls 2 impressions videos.

Who's videos? Never heard of them.

 

[Vazra]

so many unmarked spoilers ;_;

Where are the mods?

 

[kamorra]

Spoiler

Follow the tunnel next to the house with the talking cat.

Thanks.

 

[AKingNamedPaul]

Listonosh, are you aware of the item that lets depleted enemies re spawn as harder enemies? This is what i have heard, though I do not have the game and don't know how common this item is.

I know others have mentioned it, but I didn't see you respond.

 

[perorist]

Well I don't want to go into spoiler territory here, but from Majula, there is literally one way you can go. From there, there is one way to reach the next boss and so on to the next boss, and then the next. There are a few sidepaths like I mentioned which have some hidden items and such, but lead to dead ends.

However, and this is a very important thing to note, it might be that the game opens up a lot more after a certain part in the game, and so far all I've been experiencing thus far is the more linear stage.

Sounds like you need to get further before making such sweeping claims. There were times when the last streamer who finished the game had 3-4 bosses available in different places at once. He would try one and move on to others when he couldn't beat them at that moment.

 

[Listonosh]

Listonosh, are you aware of the item that lets depleted enemies re spawn as harder enemies? This is what i have heard, though I do not have the game and don't know how common this item is.

I know others have mentioned it, but I didn't see you respond.

I assume you're tlaking about the bonfire ascetic? It's one of the starting items which I didn't pick, and through my gameplay, I have yet to find one or get a drop

 

[Evolved1]

I can't really argue with that. And on top of souls, sometimes you actually need to do those tours to farm humanity, titanite shards or whatever you might need. It was a system that just worked and made the Souls games what they were to a degree. I would probably prefer it that way as well, but I am not going to knock the changes until I experience how everything works for myself.

On the flipside... there were many times when I stuck around treading water (even if it was to ascend weapons or armor) when I should've been pressing forward.

What I would offer as a solution is that you can exhaust the enemies in an area for a time... and that they will reappear later. After they've forced you to press on.

They could be like the lizards in Demon's Souls... respawn after the next boss is killed (or something, that was just of the top of my head... I'm just saying)

 

[cerulily]

Who's videos? Never heard of them.

VaatiVidya is pretty much the most popular dark souls youtuber. His "dark souls 2 - first impressions" video has almost half a million views on its own.

I have over 1000 hours in dark souls and demon's soul individually. I just personally don't see why you would want to re-farm an area 15+ times because you "like the combat" when you can just move to NG+ to challenge yourself. It's a personal value, that's all.

 

[Jobbs]

everything about the limited respawns on enemies sounds bad to me, since killing enemies be it for items or for souls, or just for the hell of it (combat is fun!) was an integral part of dark souls.

I'm willing to withhold final judgement on it until playing it.

 

[Listonosh]

Sounds like you need to get further before making such sweeping claims. There were times when the last streamer who finished the game had 3-4 bosses available in different places at once. He would try one and move on to others when he couldn't beat them at that moment.

Yeah, you're probably right. I for sure haven't seen the majority of the game yet, so that claim might have been a little premature.

 

[Ateron]

How common is that item? Can we find it early? Can you buy it?

I'm not even counting with enemies dropping it, because of the limited spawns. It's gonna be harder to farm enemies for armor sets/weapons/materials.

If the item is easily obtainable, I think the trade off in using it is totally acceptable, but if it's one of those items that you only find 10 or less per playthrough, like demon titanites (discounting a certain place in LI) it's not looking good.

 

[Metaroo]

Late to the pre-order hype, but the investment is made.

Here's hoping.

 

[perorist]

VaatiVidya is pretty much the most popular dark souls youtuber. His "dark souls 2 - first impressions" video has almost half a million views on its own.

Wouldn't be surprised if half of those views are from girls who just want to see his adonis-like face.

 

[Kensuke]

I assume you're tlaking about the bonfire ascetic? It's one of the starting items which I didn't pick, and through my gameplay, I have yet to find one or get a drop

You only have

Spoiler

two

estus bottles right now?

Spoiler

At that point you should have three.

Locations

Spoiler

(of shards): basement in the mansion (you have the key right?) and in the previously locked door above the cardinal tower bonfire

 

[Jobbs]

Wouldn't be surprised if half of those views are from girls who just want to see his adonis-like face.

he was big before he ever showed his face. the glorious reveal was only very recently.

 

[KennyLinder]

VaatiVidya is pretty much the most popular dark souls youtuber. His "dark souls 2 - first impressions" video has almost half a million views on its own.

I have over 1000 hours in dark souls and demon's soul individually. I just personally don't see why you would want to re-farm an area 15+ times because you "like the combat" when you can just move to NG+ to challenge yourself. It's a personal value, that's all.

Hold on, what about parts of the game where you just aren't good enough to get past? I remember struggling with S+O in Anor Lando and kept getting my ass handed to me. I did many cycles of killing Silver Knights so I could level up a bit, and afford some weapon upgrades too. I couldn't "just go to NG+" as I was stuck mid-game.

 

[Jobbs]

Hold on, what about parts of the game where you just aren't good enough to get past? I remember struggling with S+O in Anor Lando and kept getting my ass handed to me. I did many cycles of killing Silver Knights so I could level up a bit, and afford some weapon upgrades too. I couldn't "just go to NG+" as I was stuck mid-game.

I remember killing those silverknights probably 50 times or more trying to get the sword. On some runs, getting the baldur side sword takes more than 15 runs. grinding for a rare drop is something oddly satisfying for some of us, and it seems like this aspect of the game is 100% gone.

Now, necessarily, rare, low drop rate items either won't be a thing, or they'll be a thing but impossible to acquire on some runs because the respawns are limited. I guess I'm sort of okay with the second case, it makes rare items more exciting and valuable, but if it's the first case then bleh.

 

[ironcreed]

Wouldn't be surprised if half of those views are from girls who just want to see his adonis-like face.

LOL

 

[Listonosh]

You only have

Spoiler

two

estus bottles right now?

Spoiler

At that point you should have three.

Locations

Spoiler

(of shards): basement in the mansion (you have the key right?) and in the previously locked door above the cardinal tower bonfire

Ah,

Spoiler

which mansion is this? In Majula? There is one building I can't unlock yet and don't have the key for.

 

[dreamfall]

Hold on, what about parts of the game where you just aren't good enough to get past? I remember struggling with S+O in Anor Lando and kept getting my ass handed to me. I did many cycles of killing Silver Knights so I could level up a bit, and afford some weapon upgrades too. I couldn't "just go to NG+" as I was stuck mid-game.

Yeah wondering about this too. A lot of farming in 4-1 and the Painted World just to level up and get through certain more challenging areas of the game. It was a weird sense of flow, but it worked.

 

[KCroxtonJr]

Well I don't want to go into spoiler territory here, but from Majula, there is literally one way you can go. From there, there is one way to reach the next boss and so on to the next boss, and then the next. There are a few sidepaths like I mentioned which have some hidden items and such, but lead to dead ends.

However, and this is a very important thing to note, it might be that the game opens up a lot more after a certain part in the game, and so far all I've been experiencing thus far is the more linear stage.

I'm pretty sure I've seen people able to go either to

Spoiler

Heide's Tower of Flame

OR

Spoiler

Forest of Fallen Giants

. Both had access to a boss right from the start.

I could be remembering wrong.

 

[Kensuke]

I don't get how the respawning works. I'm in an area with three tough enemies close to each other. The middle one has suddenly disappeared. That's the one I've killed the least, two times at most. When do enemies disappear exactly? Hmm.

 

[KennyLinder]

I remember killing those silverknights probably 50 times or more trying to get the sword. grinding for a rare drop is something oddly satisfying for some of us, and it seems like this aspect of the game is 100% gone.

Yeah also that! The Silver Knight weapons were fucking rad, and I wanted them. They were me favourite enemy in the entire game I think, I just loved fighting them.MI am really not happy about this change in Dark Souls 2.

 

[Listonosh]

I'm pretty sure I've seen people able to go either to

Spoiler

Heide's Tower of Flame

OR

Spoiler

Forest of Fallen Giants

. Both had access to a boss right from the start.

I could be remembering wrong.

Yeah this has been brought to my attention as well. It's funny because I did try to take the

Spoiler

path to Heide's tower, but the way was locked to me,

so I might have missed something. I'm gonna go check it out soon.

 

[Jobbs]

I just realized that you guys who got an early copy over the last few days one way or another robbed yourself of the "first days of souls" experience, learning the game for the first time while the online system is in place. With that in mind, I'm sort of glad I have to wait until Tuesday.

 

[KCroxtonJr]

Yeah this has been brought to my attention as well. It's funny because I did try to take the

Spoiler

path to Heide's tower, but the way was locked to me,

so I might have missed something. I'm gonna go check it out soon.

Hmm interesting, I may have missed part of the stream where they unlocked the way. I don't remember everything exactly, I've been trying to force myself to forget stuff that I've seen lol.

 

[Kensuke]

Ah,

Spoiler

which mansion is this? In Majula? There is one building I can't unlock yet and don't have the key for.

Key.

Spoiler

Have you talked to they guy that loves maps in the Forest of Giants? Keep talking to him and he gives you the key. Kind of difficult to explain which area he's in. It's the area full of ramps with a demolished house in the middle (you jump on the roof of that house).

 

[KennyLinder]

Is there a Master Key this time?

Or, is that if you try a locked door than once ALL doors become locked in the game?

 

[Ateron]

I remember killing those silverknights probably 50 times or more trying to get the sword. On some runs, getting the baldur side sword takes more than 15 runs. grinding for a rare drop is something oddly satisfying for some of us, and it seems like this aspect of the game is 100% gone.

This is why I think my idea is not too bad: after 15 kills the enemies won't give souls, but their drop rate could increase like 15-20%. That way you can't over level and at the same time you can have "training dummies" for new weapons and a source to farm materials/healing gems/weapon and armor sets.

This could also be abused for farming purposes by experienced players but I don't see a big problem in that. On my first DS none of the dark knights dropped their weapons - I had to get them afterwards. On my most recent playthrough, all of them have been dropping theirs, which is cool cause I love the DKS and greatsword. Doesn't break the game since there are better options but it's a weapon I like and got it early.

 

[elohel]

Enemy limitation is something I personally don't mind, at least on paper, as it will remove the emphasis on grinding zones and turn progression into more of a skill-based affair.

The world not being as open as DaS1 and apparently containing a lot of gating, however, is quite concerning and it was my biggest worry with the bonfire warping.

sounds like a bizarre mix of open and level based games lol

Weird

 

[Toxi]

It's going to be painful grinding for weapons like Balder Swag Swords.

Wouldn't be surprised if half of those views are from girls who just want to see his adonis-like face.

he was big before he ever showed his face. the glorious reveal was only very recently.

Wait VaatiVidya showed his face?

 

[Mana Sin]

Farming for souls in the Demon's/Dark Soul 1 was more like a Rocky training montage than a real grind, for me. I never really felt forced to do it, but I would do it whenever I felt like I should be killing dudes faster. It was still fun, despite the repetition.

Wait VaatiVidya showed his face?

Yup.

 

[Jobbs]

This is why I think my idea is not too bad: after 15 kills the enemies won't give souls, but their drop rate could increase like 15-20%. That way you can't over level and at the same time you can have "training dummies" for new weapons and a source to farm materials/healing gems/weapon and armor sets.

This could also be abused for farming purposes by experienced players but I don't see a big problem in that. On my first DS none of the dark knights dropped their weapons - I had to get them afterwards. On my most recent playthrough, all of them have been dropping theirs, which is cool cause I love the DKS and greatsword. Doesn't break the game since there are better options but it's a weapon I like and got it early.

I hate that idea. rare item drops shouldn't be made unrare. getting a rare item drop should bring elation that comes from your damned good luck or your sheer perseverance, not some automatic goodie you get rewarded with for cleaning out the spawns a few times.

 

[KCroxtonJr]

It's going to be painful grinding for weapons like Balder Swag Swords.




Wait VaatiVidya showed his face?

Spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-X0-w8lJqNU

 

[Kieli]

I'm going to be extremely curious what the final Metacritic score is going to be.

 

[luckyboyceo]

I have to say, I haven't legitimately been as excited about a game launch in a long time. I'm sure the inevitable frustration will set in as I die and get irritated, but for now, I am basking in the wait.

Same here, man. I feel like it's been forever since I've been this amped up. The wait is killing me but I'm loving it at the same time. So much hype.

 

[Kensuke]

Okay. Now I'm pretty sure that if an enemy kills you a bunch of times, he will disappear permanently. I only killed the guy 1 time, and he killed me tons. I'm pretty disappointed in this, now I can't even practice on him.

 

[Ateron]

I hate that idea. rare item drops shouldn't be made unrare. getting a rare item drop should bring elation that comes from your damned good luck or your sheer perseverance, not some automatic goodie you get rewarded with for cleaning out the spawns a few times.

So, like in DeS and DS?
It's the exact same concept as wearing the Silver Serpent ring and carrying 10 humanities with you.

The only "rare" items that got me a bit more time to get were the Channeler's Trident and that ghost blade, none of which were particulary good. It was just a boring chore and not challenging in any way possible. Kalameet's ring is what I call a reward. It's kinda useless but at least you had to defeat one of the most annoying bosses in the game, not just keep killing the same boring enemy 45x until he decided you were worthy of getting his worthless item just to get a trophy.

 

[Evolved1]

Okay. Now I'm pretty sure that if an enemy kills you a bunch of times, he will disappear. I only killed the guy 1 time, and he killed me tons. I'm pretty disappointed in this, now I can't even practice on him.

*attempts to remain calm*

*attempts*

 

[Jobbs]

Okay. Now I'm pretty sure that if an enemy kills you a bunch of times, he will disappear permanently. I only killed the guy 1 time, and he killed me tons. I'm pretty disappointed in this, now I can't even practice on him.

Maybe 15 deaths in an area = spawns gone?

So, like in DeS and DS?
It's the exact same concept as wearing the Silver Serpent ring and carrying 10 humanities with you.

After you master the game, sure, but for the first long while in DkS1 I had no idea waht any of that was or how to exploit all that.

 

[Grenouille]

Does dexterity improve speed?
(Playing DS for the first time now)

 

[Steez]

Okay. Now I'm pretty sure that if an enemy kills you a bunch of times, he will disappear. I only killed the guy 1 time, and he killed me tons. I'm pretty disappointed in this, now I can't even practice on him.

What enemy and where?

Does dexterity improve speed?
(Playing DS for the first time now)

Adaptability improves movement and responsiveness, but I don't think there's a way to improve actual walking/running speed.