I like the fact that the Oscars are not enough to define the quality of a movie (only now conveniently) but the Goty awards? Oh brother, let me tell you something about the Goty awards, they are where is at man. When everything shines an it's perfect, high production values, oh man.
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David Jaffe Addresses the Concern Over Gaming Subscription Services
- Thread starter ManaByte
- Start date
Office got better, AutoCAD got better, ETABS got better, not every single company is going to screw you with fees.
Dr Bass
Member
To be fair, Oscars have been a joke for decades in terms of measuring what's good. I don't know anyone who was really into movies that though the Oscar's got things right most of the time. Though I do agree with your point on GotY awards.
Yes, hopefully Office gets better as it gets developed, along with AutoCAD. It does make sense (hopefully) that a business is able to improve it's focused software offering over time.
I assume you are trying to make the point that software subscriptions can work. But there is an extremely clear difference between Office, AutoCAD, Adobe, etc and something like Netflix or GP. Hopefully this difference is obvious and doesn't even need to be mentioned.
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Tomeru
Member
You have a name and avatar of a character from lost, and you talk about lackluster?
Chukhopops
Member
But then how did they get to 23 million subs without any of those games so far? The value of Gamepass isn’t just about AAA games but discovering things you wouldn’t have necessarily bought. Like it or not, right now the service works without any of those big AAA games.
LordBlodgett
Member
I hate Adobe for what they have done with their subscription, but they are about as close as you can get to a monopoly on the type of software as you can get. Why haven't you seen similar problems with TV/Movie subscriptions, music subscriptions? Because people have way more choices. What software are you going to replace Photoshop with? That right there is why this is a poor comparison.
Papacheeks
Banned
i would argue wasteland 3 was selling well and was a kickstarter game. So not a good comparison. Yes more people specifically on console are exposed to that game and others similarly. But I would say steam, gog have been doing this to great effect for the genre. I think wasteland on console is your specific point as those games you mentioned, and dlc would have their place on PC.
I think games would sell if they were interesting enough to rise above the pack, or congested scene that is indie, and small AA titles. The medium your right at its price point was dead in the water, so is Returnal. But word of mouth, and sales will help those type of titles.
If your game was another run of the mill pixel art or survival indie game and there's nothing really grabbing a lot of attention. Then something like making a deal with PS+ or gamepass makes sense to get more exposure. But your making it out to be like the market wont correct itself.
Gamepass is not changing NIntendo, nor is it going to change Sony. Sony will just adjust if they see $70 doesnt have the effect they want. Which they have already done for some of their PS5 titles. Returnal will probably come down in price a lot sooner than people think.
My biggest issue is you compare film/tv content with video games which in terms of delivery is a good anaology. In terms of the interaction with the person who wants to play/watch said content is where it falls apart. The time we put into a game is not the same as film/tv content. You watch a show, then thats it. Once in a blue moon you comeback to re-watch it. But once it's over it's over.
I can count a shit ton of games I've come back to and played on a regular basis. And some online, but most all single player. With the content rotating on a service it's hard to ever really get invested knowing depending on the title if it might be leaving.
Case in point Red dead 2. Imagine getting invested, playing the main story. Then you want to go back and explore all the side stuff, oh wait you can't it's removed from gamepass. Guess I'll buy it hopefully discounted. If not i find it shitty to pay full price for something that was part of a service I pay for.
What if it's a older game from 360 days, are the servers even going to work at that point? And if I don't check in online connection wise can I access the game even?
In terms of value its a great market grower like all services, the thing is like all the services games are more expensive if people are playing more the AAA, AA games. The data they have shows majority of what people are playing, and I can bet you the money for in-game purchases are coming from the bigger titles they sign, and pay to have on the service.
More people are playing games on gamepass, thats great. But also it's not like things like steam sales, humble bundle, gog, and other market places and services are not growing the market.
Also PC gamepass is complete ass.
GuinGuin
Banned
Halo, Gears, Forza, Fable, Doom, and Hellblade are all on gamepass I'm pretty sure...
I never assessed the quality of a movie by the Oscars, like i never did for games going by the GOTY awards, but for some reason people talk shit about the oscars but talk up games when they win Goty awards, i mean , it's confusing and irritating. To be clear there are very good movies that did win the Oscars, like there are very good games that won Goty awards. What can't be done in my opinion is talking shit about one, while using the other to show that x company is very good at making games, because they're all goty winners.
I'm not making that point, i was replying to someone that talked about Adobe and i showed (and i still have plenty more examples) that some software houses don't use the subscription model to screw you up with fees. I game on pc, i have plenty of games so i don't need gamepass, i tried PSNow but it wasn't good (streaming) but if i see value in GP i will give it a go, like many other people out there, not everyone is going to get all worried about keeping games. Even books, which is the thing i love to own physically, i started transitioning to digital only when i bought a Kobo. There are also subscription models in place and if i see value in them i will subscribe.
I think it is a personal thing and i honestly fail to see how it will bring the quality down. The movie aspect is actually one of the worse comparison. I was part of a club that organized independent movie european nights, at the time, stuff like Vitenberg, Lars Von Tried, Kusturica where completely unknown and the ammount of shit we had screening, oh boy. Even when i worked at a video store, we had more copies of copy-paste Van Damme movies that of Silence of The Lambs for example or The Pianist. I don't know where people get the perception that it's worse. It's not worse, you just have way more access to other movies, music, books that wouldn't have a chance before without knowing if they were really good or not.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
i don’t think the value of a game is solely on budget, but the game Kojima made certainly needed a higher budget to achieve that unique blend of world building, interconnectivity, and a huge amount of unique mechanics in service of a compelling emotional journey.
it’s called VIDEO games for a reason, and the better produced a game looks, the more you get absorbed into the world. But even aside from the visuals, merely adding that level of content is already well beyond indie level budget.
And the truth is you can have both. You can have a game that has a significant blend of mechanics and production values to go along with a certain level of risk taking on either aspect.
I suspect that while Death Stranding was fairly expensive to make, it isn’t even in the same stratosphere as some of the most expensive games. It’s clearly a smaller team that was able to leverage procedural generation for the worlds. But the emphasis on visuals, production, and unique gameplay is all intertwined and to distill it down to just the gameplay elements without the production would have significantly lessened the emotional impact and motivation for the player to explore the rich landscape, connect the world together, and witness the brilliant insanity of storytelling that only Kojima can provide.
i don’t see how a service like GamePass is any better at enabling that sort of title than the traditional business model.
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Zeroing
Banned
Because music and movie is not games, games are closer to software than to music services!
So I think my example is valid!
NullZ3r0
Banned
I don't think there are a whole lot of gamers who love video games as a medium. They play them, but they're only in it for the Maddens or COD or the big budget Sony stuff.
Those are the people who tune out during the Indie games showcase at an E3 press conference.
The big budget games don't do it for me. I had as much fun watching a YouTuber play RE8 as I would have had playing it. Same for TLOU2 and all of Sony's big exclusives. They're basically big expensive interactive movies that lose their luster after one playthrough.
However, the non-linear sandbox games or looter shooter games are the ones that I need to actually play to experience. That's what I like about the GamePass concept. I pay a healthy monthly fee for all I can eat. Most of the games I have no desire to play, but once in a while I find a gem that I only experienced because it was a low risk endeavor. I just can't drop $60-$70 on a game that won't give me at least 20 hours of playtime.
I'm glad games like Outriders were GamePass day one because the game ended up being a shit show of incompetence. Prior to the GP announcement, I was ready to drop $60 on the game based on the demo. The online play is trash and the end game is damn near unplayable. Screw the risk to publishers, buying some games are a risk to gamers as well. Look at Cyberpunk. If that game launched on GamePass, it wouldn't have had near the negative reception since most people wouldn't have been screwed out of $60.
GamePass is like Golden Corrall. Most of the food is mediocre, but there are a few "anchor items" that make the $13 worth it. Some people are okay with a half rack of ribs and prime rib to eat with their mushy mac and cheese and over cooked broccoli.
Those are the people who tune out during the Indie games showcase at an E3 press conference.
The big budget games don't do it for me. I had as much fun watching a YouTuber play RE8 as I would have had playing it. Same for TLOU2 and all of Sony's big exclusives. They're basically big expensive interactive movies that lose their luster after one playthrough.
However, the non-linear sandbox games or looter shooter games are the ones that I need to actually play to experience. That's what I like about the GamePass concept. I pay a healthy monthly fee for all I can eat. Most of the games I have no desire to play, but once in a while I find a gem that I only experienced because it was a low risk endeavor. I just can't drop $60-$70 on a game that won't give me at least 20 hours of playtime.
I'm glad games like Outriders were GamePass day one because the game ended up being a shit show of incompetence. Prior to the GP announcement, I was ready to drop $60 on the game based on the demo. The online play is trash and the end game is damn near unplayable. Screw the risk to publishers, buying some games are a risk to gamers as well. Look at Cyberpunk. If that game launched on GamePass, it wouldn't have had near the negative reception since most people wouldn't have been screwed out of $60.
GamePass is like Golden Corrall. Most of the food is mediocre, but there are a few "anchor items" that make the $13 worth it. Some people are okay with a half rack of ribs and prime rib to eat with their mushy mac and cheese and over cooked broccoli.
ahahhaha your takes are always amazingly entertaining.
Those 207 millions subscribers are laughing at you so hard that you could become deaf from the loud noise
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GuinGuin
Banned
What makes the medium special is living the experience of a character. You aren't just watching them fight for their life you are fighting for your/their life and therefore you can connect to a character and their experiences on a deeper level than any other medium. Having top notch visuals, animations, writing and direction all aid in being sucked into that experience.
You losing time with him .Honestly he is only attacking gaming subscription services because the most valuable right now is branded Ms and not Sony. You will see him spinning like Michael Jackson when Sony will launch something similar...soonIt's weird. Its like you didn't even watch the video.
I assure you, I don't attack AAA games in the video, I say I love AAA games in the video, and the video is NOTHING AT ALL about the need for AAA games on sub services.
But carry on commenting on something you didn't actually watch, good sir.
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DeltaPolarBear
Member
The games would be different. How you pay for games, affect the types of games that get made.
Arcade games are different from console games because you pay a coin at a time. They are good games but at their core they are not the same. The same will be the case with Gamepass.
As for what KIND of games would Gamepass bring about? Look at phone games.
KungFucius
King Snowflake
Where are the Shawshanks and Schindler's lists now? It is all action blockbusters and that started happening before streaming. Avatar was huge in 2009 and Ironman started the Marvel trend in 2008 this was before streaming was big. I think Netflix was just starting around then and on PC only. Samsung's first "smart" TV was in 2008 and only really had youtube for streaming.
HBO proved TV could be really good back in the late 90s I don't think Sopranos or the Wire are objectively better than modern streaming shows, they just happened to be the first ones that got to explore the subject matter without the regulations of broadcast TV. The Mandalorian makes a strong case for top tier TV as does Stranger Things. Each have a ton of buzz and are event TV.
It's really bizarre to cherry pick 3 shows that spanned nearly 2 decades of TV and try to say that they prove streaming isn't as good in its 5 or so years of mainstream adoption while then half blaming streaming for the trend to comic book movies. OK.
kbear
Member
You have no idea how right you are with your point here about this particular poster you're quoting. I've known him for 15 years and you described him down to a tee. He also hasn't "watched tons" of your content, that's a lie. But anyway, beautiful analogy to gaming with that Top 40 line and how actual aficionados are listening to all forms of music, mainstream and local, big budget produced and smaller. There's a segment of gamers that simply will not go out of their mainstream / AAA comfort zone and, hey, that's fine! But if you're coming from that background and try to make the points that have been made in this thread about Game Pass and other subs, I guess the most polite way to say it is... you kinda don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
Blond
Banned
you know I had an entire response posted but this says it better than I ever could.
Entroyp
Member
I agree. I don’t want big budget blockbuster to go away either. As long as people keep buying them we should be fine.
gamerEMdoc
Member
3 of those shows were on HBO, which is a premium TV subscription service. And cable tv is a subscription service itself.
GuinGuin
Banned
A premium subscription service is as close to paying $70 for a brand new release as you can get in the TV world.
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the fuck is this ..some of you need a reality check. The games that are on gamepass are mostly the games that end on PlayStation lol
GuinGuin
Banned
There is no way to simply purchase new HBO shows day one.
Cool. So then buy them when they release digitally or on box sets. Trying to mentally gymnastics your way into saying a subscription is actually like retail sales to fit your narrative is ridiculous lol
GuinGuin
Banned
It's not though. The point is you are paying a premium to watch a premium product. The reason HBO can make big budget shows without commercials is because they ask a higher price than normal TV.
onnextflix5
Member
As ms is going all in game pass, lets wait and see if the quality drops or improves, netflix quality has dropped over years as they look for profits. I expect that too happen to both ms and sony. That's why competition is so important. Look at nintendo, they have no competition in portable space, that's why they don't want to invest anymore. They are happy with currant set up of releasing 1 or 2 games per year.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
The Mandolorian is literally Power Rangers. It's just Power Rangers! FFS why doesn't anyone else see this?!
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Unknown?
Member
What I hate about subscription services such as Netflix and Prime is I have to pay for a lot of crap I wouldn't watch. Renting is far more valuable to me, too bad all of the retail rentals died so renting has to be digital.
People will never stop telling you guys that video games are not movies. For each single player game "One and done" on the service will be released one or more games that will have the probability of increasing the earnings through dlc, mtx, etc etc so as to greatly increase the income in addition to the monthly fee... We know that the vast majority of videogames earnings (more than half overall) are precisely from dlc and mtx... and yes before you ask , the same goes for Sony in their ecosystem with their AAA productions. So you will understand for yourself that the discourse on the price that excludes large productions is simply a far-fetched nonsense. Halo, gears, Forza and all the others AAA will be the grave of these fools
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Optimus Lime
(L3) + (R3) | Spartan rage activated
The insane mental gymastics that the usual NeoGAF manchildren use to shit on Gamepass never fails to amuse me. It can't simply be a service that they don't personally care for, it has to draw convoluted, hysterical comparisons involving the Oscars, Netflix, the death of rentals, SAAS, and the total annihilation of gaming as we know it.
It's like this entire site has been overrun by 18 year old 4chan refugees with all of the depth of a puddle.
It's like this entire site has been overrun by 18 year old 4chan refugees with all of the depth of a puddle.
kbear
Member
Nailed it. There's this bizarre doomer mentality permeating in these threads that's nothing but veiled console fanboy rhetoric when you pull back the curtain.
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
Yup can these types of threads until people start growing a pair when it comes to this gamepass victim complex
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Ev1L AuRoN
Member
He is not easing my concerns comparing it to Netflix. I wonder what will happen to niche titles, are we going to receive games based on some algorithm?
Niche titles are getting more exposure right now then they'd normally get if they just released on the store...
Optimus Lime
(L3) + (R3) | Spartan rage activated
Oh, absolutely. Your ability to choose what you want to play for yourself - nay, your very soul and identity - are going to be erased by Gamepass, just as they have by Netflix. We are the last people on earth who have been able to evade Netflix's dastardly brainwashing techniques. I see my friends and family who are no longer capable of making their own choices for completely optional, corporate entertainment products, and I weep for them.
This is the future that Microsoft sees for us. You should be terrified of how a subscription service that you can choose to ignore will compromise your ability to 'receive games'. Resist.
I'll be over here playing video games like a normal person. Jesus, posts like this are nuclear blasts of world destroying cringe. Just stop.
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
You think that will still be the case if gamepass grows to 3000+ titles like Netflix?
Switch was also a bastion for Indies before the store become saturated. Same with anything really
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Ass of Can Whooping
Member
Go back to playing games then and stop bitching about discussions in a discussion forum
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You listed a bunch of stuff that was behind a subscription service. Also I’d like to add that the NEWEST media you referenced is from like 2004.
.Your just holding on to nostalgia, you didn’t really make a point.
To counter your point, streaming services brought great shows like the marvel line from Daredevil to Falcon & Winter Soldier, Orange is the new black, The Mando, it revived shows that were killed off so we can enjoy the finally. They bring audience to shows that were considered bad like “You.”
Podcasts have found success from streaming services.
im not defending GamePass per-se, it’s just there is no correlation between dwindling quality of content and subscription services. However, there is a correlation between green lighting crazier stuff because of subscription services.
I’m using my phone so sorry about grammar and spelling.
Yes because every time a new bunch is added I see the game and check it out. Couple that with game pass quests for rewards these get more exposure than absolutely zero fanfare in a store of 10,000 titles
lh032
I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
i really really wanted to know how well is gamepass doing now, i dont think they have release a financial report or something regarding gamepass, everything is just the whole microsoft division or something.
Very interested to know how much Microsoft have been spending to get those games on gamepass especially AAA ones.
Very interested to know how much Microsoft have been spending to get those games on gamepass especially AAA ones.
The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
I agree that lots of what Netflix puts out can be questionable in quality, but if you really mean there's no great content on Netflix, then you have a really niche of taste which no one can give you.
kbear
Member
They're almost certainly losing money, quite a lot of it too. It's going to take a couple years before it's profitable, this is the growth phase.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
there’s some good content, often rare, but I can honestly say I’ve ever seen anything legitimately as amazing as something like HBO
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Battlefront 2 was when the lootbox microtransactions reached new heights and only a backlash steered them somewhat clear. Squadrons was cool but they didn't offer it on the sub and it's no Mass Effect. Its focus is mostly on the MP matches and seasons.
Games like Knockout City are no different to Apex Legends or Fortnite. They are multiplayer arena games with cosmetic purchases from HoloBucks. These type of games are just after "engagement" and have you grinding multiplayer to unlock cosmetics like fortnite.
The huge single player games from EA like Mass Effect, Dead Space, Dragon Age have died out. If MP arena games where you earn some type of digital currency from playing in matches is your jam then I can see why you could still be enjoying EA games but it's not for me.
Sea of Solitude I haven't played but it seems like a fairly low budget game created for switch. Willing to give it a go though even if it isn't a big budget game akin to the ones they use to make.
kbear
Member
Brah, a new Dragon Age, Mass Effect, and sequel to Jedi Fallen Order (a AAA single-player game) were all recently announced.
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