Killer Sakoman
Member
Subscription will dominates when it becomes $100/ month so it can deliver quality content
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David Jaffe Addresses the Concern Over Gaming Subscription Services
- Thread starter ManaByte
- Start date
Ev1L AuRoN
Member
I have no problem with gamepass and I subscribe when there is some game that I want. What I don't want is that this become the norm. If all the big three start to do that I don't see as a great deal for us in the long run.
GuinGuin
Banned
Dragon Age was dead to me the moment I ran into an NPC in the camp whose sole purpose was literally to sell me DLC. Screw that. Immersion ruined.
Netflix bought the Irishman, didn’t fund it. They got trial of the Chicago 7 because of COVID making a theatrical release unrealistic. Parasite was again acquired after a long Korean theatrics run. Nomad land is a 5$ million dollar film that wasn’t funded by any streaming service, simply paid for afterwards. Roma again was funded in Mexico.
You are only driving in his point further when every film you listed was made for theaters initially with streaming coming later.
Netflix made and funded movies and tv shows largely are ass.
Almost every example people are listing of good Netflix films weren’t made from ground 0 by Netflix but bought after production was done. So much pro gamepass misinformation here, wonder what’s going on, as if a company notorious for astroturfing has a massive cost service to market to gamers
Oxymoron. Gamepass would only be good on ps5 because MS is still footing the debt bill so I know Sony is still cooking up classics.
How does that change anything to the subscriber that gets access to the content via the subscription service?
Netflix still has good content on their own. Chef's Table. Stranger Things. House of Cards (at first). The Crown. The Queen's Gambit. Etc. There's a lot of trash, but to say they don't have any own produced stuff is not true lol.
kbear
Member
Totally agree, man. I know the camp NPC you’re talking about, shit was disgusting. I hear Ma$$ Effect 4 is also gonna have a similar NPC in the Normandy. Can you imagine? Never buying another EA game again in my lifetime.
Because the point stands that the best content is stuff that was made with the idea of a high grossing theatrical run in mind? Parasite is amongst the best films in years and it had nothing to do with streaming. That’s like saying gamepass is really improving the quality of gaming because ms paid for some games, that already made their money via a normal release, years after they came out. And those shows you listed still pale in comparison to the actual best shows of the last several years.
Parasite, I agree. It was an Oscar winner for a reason. But some in this thread would have you believe that the Oscars aren't indicative of quality + that Parasite would be worse if it came to Netflix on release. I think EVERY movie and game is made hoping they are highly successful, so I'm not sure what your point is.
I don't think anyone has claimed game pass is improving the quality of games as a whole? It is definitely permitting more experimental or niche games, especially for smaller developers. And imo it has yet to be proven it's actively hurting the quality of games.
Your last statement is irrelevant because it's subject. The Queen's Gambit was one of the best shows I've seen recently, and the others are all very good too. That just comes down to your opinion.
>You listed a bunch of stuff that was behind a subscription service. Also I’d like to add that the NEWEST media you referenced is from like 2004.You listed a bunch of stuff that was behind a subscription service. Also I’d like to add that the NEWEST media you referenced is from like 2004..
Your just holding on to nostalgia, you didn’t really make a point.
To counter your point, streaming services brought great shows like the marvel line from Daredevil to Falcon & Winter Soldier, Orange is the new black, The Mando, it revived shows that were killed off so we can enjoy the finally. They bring audience to shows that were considered bad like “You.”
Podcasts have found success from streaming services.
im not defending GamePass per-se, it’s just there is no correlation between dwindling quality of content and subscription services. However, there is a correlation between green lighting crazier stuff because of subscription services.
I’m using my phone so sorry about grammar and spelling.
Your just holding on to nostalgia, you didn’t really make a point.
is anyone else getting just a tad tired of the false comparisons of HBO to streaming services? Hbos subscription price was a premium fee to a concentrated output of content considered best in class. Same way you pay more for better internet. Streaming services are about quantity first and foremost.
I overall agree that streaming has brought some quality content, but you are talking about, what? 10 services out now at this point? Of course there will be decent content. But for every show you list there’s hundreds of garbage ones. And we are talking about services that are taking in hundreds of millions a quarter. Gamepass, without even factoring in 23 developers, is still running at a net loss. And it’s getting a bit played out watching people play out imaginary situations where a multi trillion dollar company gets to make even more money. Let gamepass show results with its actual output first
Optimus Lime
(L3) + (R3) | Spartan rage activated
How about this for an idea. I'll ignore you and do whatever the fuck I like, at any time, regardless of any objections you put forward.
Sound good?
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
I'm just offering you suggestions so you can keep your nonsense bitching to a minimum
It's good for your health
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Optimus Lime
(L3) + (R3) | Spartan rage activated
Oh, I know. Don't misread my post, I genuinely appreciate your feedback - it's really great that you're taking the time to give me a sense check, and to cause me to reflect on the content of my posts. We all need that from time to time, and I'm certainly no exception.
But, the conclusion that I've come to is - still - I'll do whatever I like, whenever I like, and I'll contribute to the discussion in any way that I see fit. Just as the people I was replying to should. Just as you should.
If you don't like that, I don't know what to tell you. Maybe you need to go do some knitting or something, and get your mind off the forums for a bit.
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Papacheeks
Banned
Netflix has been around for longer than any other service and in every country in terms of availability.
Disney + has been out little over a year and has done almost half of those numbers.
A d that would be because of IP. NETFLIX retention numbers are not great. Look at their ups/downs during content drops. They peak at when they have something big like last dance, tiger king, Cobra Kai.
The thing keeping them relevant is how long they have been around and their multi-regional content.
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
Ah I see
You're getting the most out of your freedom on the internet until daddy comes knocking and it's back to being the obedient son
Power to ya
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Those who have these problems with GamePass, in my opinion, seem to be afraid of the paradigm shift that it can cause.
The only reason one would be this concerned with it is because they acknowledge it’s potential to change things for good.
If you think GP is a bad value proposition (and cannot survive long term), why not let the market dictate that? Where is your confidence in the status quo?
I think David and Colin spoke of something to this effect in their conversation. Let GP have a trial by fire. Let’s see what it’s really made of.
The only reason one would be this concerned with it is because they acknowledge it’s potential to change things for good.
If you think GP is a bad value proposition (and cannot survive long term), why not let the market dictate that? Where is your confidence in the status quo?
I think David and Colin spoke of something to this effect in their conversation. Let GP have a trial by fire. Let’s see what it’s really made of.
Optimus Lime
(L3) + (R3) | Spartan rage activated
ZehDon
Member
I get the concern about subscription services decreasing quality - it's the same concern we've seen in the past for other things, some of which largely turned out to be true. I remember way back when DLC was first a thing, and people were concerned it could lead to companies cutting up games to sell the pieces off as "additional content" for inflated prices. They were told that wouldn't happened. And guess what - that absolutely happened. And then it gave birth to USD$250.00 weapon skins and an entire sub-industry built around milking their customers with predatory monetisation mechanics. The concerns were completely justified and the corporate apologists helped make it happen.
All I can say is that subscriptions services are happening one way or another. So, vote with your wallet. Right now, Gamepass is astounding value. I'm on it and I won't be leaving anytime soon. If that changes, and suddenly its no longer worth my money, I'll stop paying for it and go back to buying my games wholesale. I'm not sure what else can be done to promote a healthy service with quality games. With that said, all of the faux concern about "profitability" just reads like fanboy non-sense; people desperately looking for something to dislike. "How can Microsoft possibly stay afloat? Won't someone think of the corporations!!" I'll let trillion dollar companies worry about their bottom line, and I'll worry about how the fuck I'm supposed to find time to play all of the games they're handing out.
All I can say is that subscriptions services are happening one way or another. So, vote with your wallet. Right now, Gamepass is astounding value. I'm on it and I won't be leaving anytime soon. If that changes, and suddenly its no longer worth my money, I'll stop paying for it and go back to buying my games wholesale. I'm not sure what else can be done to promote a healthy service with quality games. With that said, all of the faux concern about "profitability" just reads like fanboy non-sense; people desperately looking for something to dislike. "How can Microsoft possibly stay afloat? Won't someone think of the corporations!!" I'll let trillion dollar companies worry about their bottom line, and I'll worry about how the fuck I'm supposed to find time to play all of the games they're handing out.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
$500m/yr in revenue is nowhere even close to paying for the operating costs of all the developers they now own
distant second is fantasy talk. Microsoft has never made it beyond a close third at best, and most generations were distant third
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DavidGzz
Member
It's only one way they make money. They still sell games outright. Games leave GP monthly or so, those games are 20% off. People will buy them before they lose that discount. I still bought RE8, Dark Alliance, etc on their store. They are getting that plus my GP money. It keeps people in their ecosystem. It sells consoles.
Edit: Besides, 50 mil is nothing compared to how it will snowball during the course of the generation.
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James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
the more popular GP becomes the less anyone is going to buy their games at all
Homie where are you getting the metric of $500M / yr in revenue from game pass if subs are 50 million? That's $500 Million estimated a MONTH. That's six BILLION a year in revenue from the subscription alone. You don't think 6 billion is enough to cover the costs of their operations? For games that take multiple years to make? On top of the other cuts and sales and Steam sales and all that?
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
aren’t most people paying hardly anything for GP due to deals?
lmfao always the classic response. who knows? who cares? Those deals are first use only and your average joe isn't doing a brazil VPN Gold to Ultimate 3 year conversion trick.
Even then, Microsoft got you tied to the ecosystem for 3 years and got an upfront cost of like $180 on top of your console sale. I'm sure they're real choked up about that.
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DavidGzz
Member
Nope, most forumers....maybe. Casuals dont even know about the "trick". Besides, you still have to buy 3 years of Gold...
objectively false ..ps3 era happened Sony closed with 9+ billion debt ..it took half of PS4 era to make up for losses. Ending distant third in the thing that companies care most about. Earnings
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show the data or is air from your arse ?
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
Who cares? That's an important detail. If those deals evaporate, you're far less likely to get to 50M subs.
Regardless, that's still a wildly optimistic projection, and the revenue even in the best case scenario does not travel as far as you think with all the studios Microsoft now has payroll for, and the deals they have to strike with third parties to put games on GP. Zenimax alone is 2,300 employees. It costs a lot of money to pay for the real estate, energy, capital equipment, travel, and payroll costs per employee.
Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
Gamepass is great for me as a PC player.
Don't have to buy a xbox
Don't have to buy xbox first party games
All new releases from their studios are day one on PC and usually with cross play to the box/steam .
Plenty of great third party new releases Im nterested in for a wait for sale buy I can try on day one.
Games I was interested in the past from third parties I didn't try are there to explore.
-----
As a PS5 , PC, and Switch owner I've probably tried the most new games specifically from Gamepass offerings.
With Bethesda in the loop that means even more games I'll for sure want to try.
Ultimately I save a metric ton of money a year /overall and get more great games to play. I'm all for it.
Don't have to buy a xbox
Don't have to buy xbox first party games
All new releases from their studios are day one on PC and usually with cross play to the box/steam .
Plenty of great third party new releases Im nterested in for a wait for sale buy I can try on day one.
Games I was interested in the past from third parties I didn't try are there to explore.
-----
As a PS5 , PC, and Switch owner I've probably tried the most new games specifically from Gamepass offerings.
With Bethesda in the loop that means even more games I'll for sure want to try.
Ultimately I save a metric ton of money a year /overall and get more great games to play. I'm all for it.
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Are you? Microsoft will just have sales or bundles to get people hooked. It's up to them to figure out how to retain users.
I'm really not that worried about the logistics of how Microsoft is paying their staff. They're capable of figuring that out. If ZeniMax staff was a concern Microsoft could have consolidated the publishing arms, but they didn't. They're a multi trillion dollar company it'll be ok
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
Yeah, it'll be ok, until it's not. The investment environment right now may not be the same as it is 5 years from now. Times change. It wasn't too long ago the Microsoft seriously considered exiting Xbox altogether because management did not see a viable path to profitability. And they have openly admitted in court that they are still nowhere near profitable.
All it takes is for earnings to miss projections for a few quarters for investors to take a more critical eye to less profitable portions of their business.
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Alex Scott
Member
I have subscribed to gamepass recently with that 1 dollar deal. But i had gamepass subscription before with the same 1 dollar month deal then i cancel the subscription before the month was over and now i am subscribed again with the recent one dollar deal with the same account.
So it is not for new users only. It is also for returning customers
if Sony is still here after the colossal economic failure of the ps3 .. despite not having the immensely greater economic resources of Microsoft. There is nothing to worry about, and it is clear that yours is only concern trolling
jonnyp
Member
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
I’m scratching my head about that too.
Fess
Member
What’s the point in being concerned? Just enjoy the service as long as it’s there. I’m barely buying any games at all and I’m playing more games than ever.
You think I would’ve bought Snow Runners? No. But now it’s just sitting there waiting to be installed and my son love big vehicles so now we’re playing it and it’s jolly good fun.
Same thing with New Super Lucky’s Tale, playing with my kids, soon finished, wouldn’t have touched it without GP.
Can’t deal with scary games. Yet The Medium was my first XSX playthrough because why not? It’s there. Why not try it at least?
Call of the Sea. Looked so good in trailers. Installed it, had the whole family laughing at the slow speed. Uninstalled it 30 minutes later. Phew, saves some money because of GP.
Mud Runners. Same as Snow Runners. Fun game to play with the kids. Would never buy it.
MLB the Show. I don’t play sports games. But why not try it at least? So I did, because of GP.
NHL21. Same thing. Tried it, quite fun, would never buy it.
Etc etc etc etc etc etc
Plus, all the games I definitely would’ve bought but now didn’t have to buy. It’s so good and you all are really missing out while sitting there being concerned.
You think I would’ve bought Snow Runners? No. But now it’s just sitting there waiting to be installed and my son love big vehicles so now we’re playing it and it’s jolly good fun.
Same thing with New Super Lucky’s Tale, playing with my kids, soon finished, wouldn’t have touched it without GP.
Can’t deal with scary games. Yet The Medium was my first XSX playthrough because why not? It’s there. Why not try it at least?
Call of the Sea. Looked so good in trailers. Installed it, had the whole family laughing at the slow speed. Uninstalled it 30 minutes later. Phew, saves some money because of GP.
Mud Runners. Same as Snow Runners. Fun game to play with the kids. Would never buy it.
MLB the Show. I don’t play sports games. But why not try it at least? So I did, because of GP.
NHL21. Same thing. Tried it, quite fun, would never buy it.
Etc etc etc etc etc etc
Plus, all the games I definitely would’ve bought but now didn’t have to buy. It’s so good and you all are really missing out while sitting there being concerned.
The one most important factor that is still mysterious is how the gamepass model pay the developers.
If it paid based on time duration played, then it will push game development towards gaas model.
More games like AC with huge world and unnecessary side quests.
More episodic games.
Less one time complete and done game.
If it paid based on time duration played, then it will push game development towards gaas model.
More games like AC with huge world and unnecessary side quests.
More episodic games.
Less one time complete and done game.
Only that uh?
Chukhopops
Member
The GP model is not based on time played:
« OnLive, for example - they said you can have your game on our service and we're going to attract a lot of customers, and we're going to deliver you money based on how many hours people play the game. Now at Paradox, we loved that business model, because people play our games for three or four thousand hours. While the Game Pass model to us is still a decent model, we think we're not getting paid enough, because people play our games more than they play very single-player driven narratives. »
It’s mostly based on a one time fee for a specific duration, and for indies it’s MS paying the developer directly for the dev cost, with some variable part on top:
« The open house itself went really well, if not pretty overwhelming," Gooden recalled. "After the ID@Xbox open house, I got a few little hints that I was going to get a Game Pass deal, but I didn't really know what that meant or what it involved.
"It was formally offered in October 2019, and it was pretty huge. It's still the biggest financial deal I've ever gotten, to the point where I had to ask them to repeat the numbers on the phone call."
Gooden was unable to disclose the precise details of the deal, but he did say it included "upfront support" in addition to a licensing fee. In the conference chatstream, Gooden said there is "a bonus system of sorts, too," but he didn't offer any more information on the terms. In addition, he will be able to release She Dreams Elsewhere on PC, with the one stipulation being that its launch on Game Pass happens the same day or earlier. »
Nothing to be concerned about here, isn’t that great?
I mean. Didn't Scorsese had basically unlimited budget to make Irishman? Fact that movie didn't live up to the hype of Godfellas is certainly not Netflix's fault.
IlGialloMondadori
Member
Really don’t know how all this will shake out, but bullet point one just is unprovable and completely subjective.
davidjaffe
The Fucking MAN.
So, you just type things...no worry they may not be truth?
Interesting.
I understand.
Here: https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottm...er-netflix-oscars-box-office/?sh=377e6bad57d9
And here is a picture if you don't like the words so much:
CRASH BANDICOOT, BRUTAL LEGEND, and WHAT REMAINS OF EDITH FINCH, to name just a few.
Are you suggesting that the end consumer makes their decision about how much they enjoy a sub service- be it game or movie- based upon how the movie that is exclusive to said sub service was financed?
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The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
Fixed it for you.
The same people you describe would still shit on it as long as Microsoft was behind the service.
JerryinSoCal
Member
His comparison to netflix is flawed, Netflix puts out new content like crazy and a lot of it is shit, MS will never have the bandwidth to release new games monthly or even semi monthly and if they do get to where they release a new AA game every 4 monthos or so what kind of quality will we be talking about? many of those studios they picked up were struggling financially and were what would be considered AA at best not only that but a few of them were only working on xbox games anyway and the Bethesda stuff isn't a real addition because those games would have come to xbox anyway, they are just taking traditional multiplatform games away from other platforms but as an xbox user you aren't really benefitting from that.
How much will the price for the service go up once they can say they are supporting it with new content? and don't fool yourselves into thinking the price won't go up because it will and it has to, Netflix has raised their prices several times. Netflix has a huge amount of content provided by other movie studios as well as buying international content that was being made already and branding it as a netflix show. You can make several seasons of a hit show in less time and for less money than a AA or AAA game. Halo infinite started production in 2015-2016 and it's not releasing until this fall and they had a HUGE team working on it. I have GPU so don't come at me with "you are just a hater" No I'm someone who actually buys games I'm interested in at launch, this is mostly indie style AA games and a lot of 360 games that I've already played in the past, those aren't the kinds of games that I buy a $500 console to play.
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The comparison to movies/tv shows is a bit weird as the distributor/production company relationship isn't the same as publisher/developer. In certain financial levels, it behaves differently to the blockbusters/AAA level.
If Kojima's next game is on Xbox gamepass and is episodic, then I think Gamepass clearly allows a certain type of Game Dev to have more freedom. I can see Xbox wanting to fund the gaming equivalent of Auteurs.
Also the financial comparison to Netflix is less than useful, it's not Netflix but Amazon Prime Video. Netflix isnt able to monetize users outside of the subscription service, Amazon can and Microsoft clearly hope to.
If Kojima's next game is on Xbox gamepass and is episodic, then I think Gamepass clearly allows a certain type of Game Dev to have more freedom. I can see Xbox wanting to fund the gaming equivalent of Auteurs.
Also the financial comparison to Netflix is less than useful, it's not Netflix but Amazon Prime Video. Netflix isnt able to monetize users outside of the subscription service, Amazon can and Microsoft clearly hope to.
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