Interesting. Think I'm gonna catch up on that to restore my hope.
That's definitely a downside. I'm gonna miss Midnighter, Grayson, and the Starfire solo. The restoration of old relationships hopefully makes it worth it.
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DC Rebirth |OT| It's not a reboot, and it always was [SPOILERS for Rebirth #1]
- Thread starter Poodlestrike
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Interesting. Think I'm gonna catch up on that to restore my hope.
That's definitely a downside. I'm gonna miss Midnighter, Grayson, and the Starfire solo. The restoration of old relationships hopefully makes it worth it.
IndoAssassin
Banned
So how does Rebirth affect Multiversity? Does it now bring the number of Earths to Infinite again?
There's been no mention of how it impacts the Multiverse. The Earth 2: Society book is supposed to be continuing unabated, but it's not part of the Rebirth branding.
exmachina64
Banned
Convergence made the multiverse infinite.
Edit: Delays pushed the release of Multiversity back so long that the changes it was making to the structure of the multiverse were irrelevant by the time it was released.
Johns: "Who? Do you mean Hal Jordan?"
Elaugaufein
Member
The cover appears to just be the relaunch book leads , which is why there's Anti-Villains there. So the lack of certain characters doesn't necessarily mean they don't exist just that they aren't getting a title / being a lead in a team book.
He's going to be in Hal Jordan and the Green Lantern Corps with Guy and John as well.
So in general I sort of disliked Rebirth. But I don't really care about the Flash - in fact, I would say the Flash is my least favorite major superhero, and I have a mild distaste for him in all incarnations - so that's not particularly surprising.
The sort of scattershot storytelling - here's a bunch of shit, you love these guys, they're back, sorry for fucking everything up! - definitely felt disjointed to me as someone with only vague understanding of recent DC history, so it more or less failed as a "first issue" for Rebirth. But it may well have been successful as a "final issue" for the New 52. It's probably more rewarding for longtime DC readers.
I'd like to follow that plot thread, but I wish I knew where exactly I could do so... for a book that's at least 50% advertisement they sort of dropped the ball there.
The sort of scattershot storytelling - here's a bunch of shit, you love these guys, they're back, sorry for fucking everything up! - definitely felt disjointed to me as someone with only vague understanding of recent DC history, so it more or less failed as a "first issue" for Rebirth. But it may well have been successful as a "final issue" for the New 52. It's probably more rewarding for longtime DC readers.
HOLY SHIT at Dr. Manhattan, though. I'm curious to know how they're integrating the characters, or if they're even going to bother doing so, because let's be real, the entire Watchman storyline is so self-contained that it's incredibly dumb to try and fit them into mainstream continuity. They only really work in the context of the story - like, I don't give a shit about the continuing adventures of Nite Owl because Nite Owl is just a pastiche of various Batman-esque heroes. Like, Ozymandias becoming Mr. Oz or whatever is just... so dumb. Please don't.
But Manhattan, or an evil Manhattan, or whatever, that could be cool. He's the only character that is explicitly going to go off and "do more" after the original story. I'm interested.
But Manhattan, or an evil Manhattan, or whatever, that could be cool. He's the only character that is explicitly going to go off and "do more" after the original story. I'm interested.
IndoAssassin
Banned
So when does it take place in continuity?
GavinUK86
Member
I'm pretty new to "current" DC stuff so is there somewhere I can get a quick recap of the status quo before Rebirth? I just read it and some of it makes sense but I'm not familiar with a lot of the characters in it.
Wikipedia is the obvious place but is there more of a decent write up somewhere?
Wikipedia is the obvious place but is there more of a decent write up somewhere?
Elaugaufein
Member
In Morrison time like Batman Inc. So it seems to be pre-Nu52 jammed into Nu52. Morrison started planning it after 52 (the weekly series filling in OYL).
Elaugaufein
Member
We don't know yet. Timeline is still Nu52 unless otherwise noted. We don't know how they are going to do the legacy / relationships thing yet. Might be in the Rebirth books for each series or may just be subtle recons to put stuff vaguely back in continuity (but considering how they did some characters that's going to be incredibly awkward eg No Man's Land is completely impossible in this timeline since Steph, Cass and Helena as Huntress just got reintroduced, not to mention it'd be 16% of Batman's career.)
Kinda Kent is really old and used to be Doctor fate and his nephew is the current fate. The book ends in September so who knows that fate could be Khalid after training with Nelson.
Schweinehund
Member
Just got home and read it. It was touching to see
, but it wasn't so much a stand alone story as a launch pad for all these series. It was mostly setup and an apology to fans.
My interested in Blue Beetle went up a ton.
Wonder why they haven't revealed JLA solicitations yet.
the
Wally return.
My interested in Blue Beetle went up a ton.
Wonder why they haven't revealed JLA solicitations yet.
the
watchman thing is just pure wtfuckery, have no idea where they're going with it. I do like the central theme of the story about hope though.
Holy shit that was SO GODDAMN good. I actually teared up out of happiness when Barry pulled Wally out of the speed force because I thought Johns was about to rip my heart out of my chest and kill off Wally right after bringing him back. Not only that, I am actually hype for DC in a way I haven't been since freakin' Countdown to Infinite Crisis. I can't believe this issue happened. I had truly given up hope of Wally being back and now not only is he he's going to be headlining a book written by Dan Abnett? Dreams are real ya'll.
EDIT: People new to Wally, go and get your hands on Mark Waid's 90s Flash run. Best superhero run of all time.
EDIT: People new to Wally, go and get your hands on Mark Waid's 90s Flash run. Best superhero run of all time.
Any reason they just can't call him Flash? You've already got Barry and Jay using the name and they're in different books. It was already weird that Wally had de-aged(?) to the end of his Kid Flash run but kept his memories of being Flash.
Impulse doesn't make sense for Wally, it's really a name for Bart.
Impulse doesn't make sense for Wally, it's really a name for Bart.
There were some good nods in there to that run!
Elaugaufein
Member
It was Countdown to Final Crisis (except not really because not a single thing of relevance happened in the entire series).
I honestly think the
thing won't be touched on again in a VERY long time. Now that we know the set up of this new Rebirth stuff, the main ongoings are gonna go their own way for awhile until an event. The thing is, if and when they do return to the
, there's no way it could be done in a standard event or arc. That shit has got to be dealt with with absolute care and subtlety.
Watchmen
Watchmen stuff
Elaugaufein
Member
It actually appears in the Titans Rebirth issue , and seems even to be their first arc IIRC.
NeonZ
Member
It takes place pretty much when it was finally released. There were various tweaks to make it fit with stories that didn't exist at the point it was originally announced.
The only reason it's "irrelevant" is that pretty much no other writer at DC currently seems to be interested in multiverse stuff. Even Johns blew up Earth-3 right after introducing it and now killed every crime syndicate member. There's Earth-2: Society, I guess, but it's pretty self contained too and also wasn't involved with multiversity.
Although that's true, I don't think it's the same as Inc. Multiversity barely touched the main Earth in the first place so there isn't really much Pre-52 continuity there aside from a few small references.
That part isn't really a problem anymore. We're now 10 years from the first Justice League arc, rather than 5. That part surprisingly wasn't mentioned in the Rebirth book itself, but it came up elsewhere, like Lois & Clark.
Roland_Gunner
Member
If you look at Pandora's storyline sense Flashpoint, it makes perfect sense. She is the one who united the DC, Vertigo, and Wildstorm timelines, so presumably she knows about the threat from Dr Manhattan. Manhattan is trying to wipe out anyone who has this information and gets her. The mechanics of what he does are vague, of course, but the point is to re-enforce his power and unseen presence in the DCU. From a meta perspective its also Johns killing off the new52 era, which is clearly one of his goals with this book.
Just got done reading it. The connection to
was genius.
I legit teared up when
amazing.
Watchmen
Having Manhattan be the one that changed the DC Universe to a darker and edgier universe is perfect. In a way, it's saying that ever since Moore wrote Watchmen, he changed the attitude of comic books.....possibly for the worse.
Wally was saying goodbye to Barry. And then when Barry reached out and brought him back into reality....
Hmm, I might have to check it out then. It's just so strange to me that
Watchmen is interacting with the DCU
Roland_Gunner
Member
Right now New 52 is cannon and the old stuff happened but, aside from Wally and Barry, no one knows it. Presumably Titans will be about him trying to get everyone else up to speed, as it were. Rebirth was definitely trying to tell the audience that the DCU will be a happier, more hopeful place but the characters in it don't know that.
Schweinehund
Member
Really just want that
ongoing now. I'm glad I trade wait because there's so many interesting series starting up and I don't know which ones are going to be great or relevant to the overall story.
JSA
Some stuff I liked (Aqualad, the Flash scenes- fanservicey as they are), some stuff I really didn't (I think the ending is one of the most craven, cynical things DC's ever done).. But it's hard not to be cynical when this is the same brain trust that's been running DC for years now, telling you that this time, they'll get it right.
Elaugaufein
Member
Talkin' bout this $1 bad boy. The full title reveal blew my 14 year old mind
I'd completely forgotten that existed and it wasn't terrible. The word Countdown redeemed.
Convergence kind of undoes the destruction since the original Multiverse was infinite so someone can pull out a different Crime Syndicate if they want. And I expect they eventually will.
And yeah true enough its not as blatantly pre-Nu52 as Batman Inc because no one was playing with the Multiverse but the Monitor setup and unification of a bunch of alien realm setups etc was all pretty clearly written for the pre-Nu52 version of the Multiverse.
And what ? That seems like the kind of thing that really needs to be mentioned. That puts the timeline in vaguely the same place it was pre-Nu52 (maybe 5 years earlier). Though that makes Barbara Gordon much to young (since there's an upcoming book with Dick as Robin meeting the Justice League). Gah, I'll just try to avoid thinking about it.
Father_Brain
Banned
I very much doubt that they'd deal with that in an effin' Titans book, though I can understand how you might read the solicits and think that.
Elaugaufein
Member
Yeah, that's why I said seems. I'm skeptical they'd run metaplot through Titans without involving JLA myself.
He's gonna lick it.
The Silver
Member
They got me good when Barry pulled Wally out out of the speed force, don't ever try to fuck over Wally again DC.
I'm don't see Watchmen as some holy comic book equivalent of the fucking Quran so I don't care what they do with it. Make Comedian one of those Jokers for all I care.
But seriously I do like how Manhattan was used.
I'm don't see Watchmen as some holy comic book equivalent of the fucking Quran so I don't care what they do with it. Make Comedian one of those Jokers for all I care.
But seriously I do like how Manhattan was used.
big twist: it's actually bean sauce this time
Father_Brain
Banned
Specifically, the people who spent years running the pre-New 52 DCU into the ground to the point they convinced themselves they had to reboot; the people who utterly botched the execution of the New 52; the people who then spent years running the New 52 into the ground, to the point that they had to... uh, semi-un-reboot, I guess, I dunno what else to call it.
Also, exactly the same people who removed Wally West and the JSA from continuity in the first place, who killed off Ted Kord and Ryan Choi, who broke up nearly every long-running romance from the previous continuity, etc.
And if that wasn't reason enough to be cynical, this isn't even close to the first time they've gone to the "yeah, things have gotten really dark, but from here on out, we're bringing back HOPE!" well for a big event storyline: see also Infinite Crisis, Final Crisis, Blackest Night, and Flashpoint.
Chiaroscuro
Member
Reading right now.
Can anyone sumarize the plot of what happened in Justice League #50 and the last issue of Superman?
Can anyone sumarize the plot of what happened in Justice League #50 and the last issue of Superman?
Father_Brain
Banned
Everything in those books that's immediately pertinent to Rebirth is covered in Rebirth itself, really.
Just reading that sentence gets me misty eyed. It was beautiful.
I have a big ol' boner for Morrison, but god, it still pisses me off that Final Crisis - a comic whose entire point was metacommentary on the grimdarkness pervading superhero comics, and specifically intended to usher in a more optimistic era of storytelling, was followed only a few months later by a comic where this (an established hero being brutally murdered by a wacky hero turned DARK and EVIL) happens in the very first issue. (And on top of that, the Hawks had already been seemingly killed in Final Crisis, only for Johns to retcon that so he could kill them off in a more shocking way).
NeonZ
Member
To be fair, Infinite Crisis seemed to be more about complaining about fans that whine about things being dark, rather than actually criticizing the DCU of those years. Note that the one complaining about the then current world there was Kal-L/The original Superman, who ends up in the role of a misguided antagonist during most of the story, with his two allies becoming outright villains. The first issue by itself is misleading and seems similar to Rebirth in tone, but afterwards it goes in exactly the opposite direction. Reversing the changes brought by the Crisis in Infinite Crisis (Kal-L wanted to change the balance and make most of the world being based on Earth-2, rather than Earth-1) was considered comparable to killing the people of the current world in that story. And then Kal-L ended up redeemed by death while his former allies were killed or exiled. It's basically the opposite of this story, where we're meant to sympathize with Wally's criticisms and recovering the past world is portrayed as a good thing.
I don't think Blackest Night and Flashpoint really fit there either. Blackest Night had no meta commentary at all, while Flashpoint was clearly just a self contained event that then got tweaked at the last hour to become a reboot. Final Crisis suffers from Morrison stepping away from monthly DC comics. Multiversity was clearly lighter than it at least.
MisterHero
Super Member
Of all the people who could usher in hope after Blackest Night, they didn't bring back Original Superman.
booooooooo
Elaugaufein
Member
I'm pretty sure the JSA was outside continuity for years after COIE until someone brought them back through being stuck in a time bubble. So your causality is kind of wrong, those people were already dicked over with or without the post-Crisis JSA.
Father_Brain
Banned
I don't think people would have been nearly as put off by removing the JSA from the main DCU and putting them back on another Earth, had DC kept the WWII/legacy angle intact.
Robinson did a decent job with what I presume to be the editorial remit he was given, but when the JSA were turned into another present-day team of twentysomething heroes, most of what made them distinct in the DCU was lost.
Didn't crisis screw over infinity inc causing characters origins to be rewritten to exist in the new streamlined earth.
Elaugaufein
Member
I think that sums up about 95% of the problems with Nu52 , it erased huge amounts of what made characters who and what they were and replaced them with In Name Only counterparts we were still supposed to care about because reasons. Which is probably why the books that got the lightest reboots like Bat and Lantern books did well while so many other titles were like chaff before the reaper.
Yes , I believe they they got rewritten with different non-Golden Age parents or replaced outright with substitutes where that wasn't possible.
It's W
atchmen's
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