Destiny is very much a consumer-unfriendly product
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Fantastic post. Everyone read this, and then read it again.
Lol! Shhhh.... they don't need to know that. All is better now
hahaha.
Seriously though, for those that are just straight out slagging the game off.
Please feel free to come into the GAF community thread ask for a strike/raid
We're all more than welcome to help you out and get over the hump.
We cannot however promise Gjallarhorn
More than the 'no friends, no fun' complaint, Destiny was pretty much the most blatant DLC platform I've seen in gaming in quite some time... At least on a AAA level. They released an empty shell a full price with the promise to fill it in later... But only of you paid more money. Even then there isn't really a story or point to it all.
One of my most regrettable purchases.
One of my most regrettable purchases.
Playing with gaffers from the destiny OT is so much better than playing with randoms from MM.
I was personally upset when the weekly added matchmaking because it meant you couldn't wait for gaffers to jump into your weekly. But I understand that it is probably better for the game as a whole.
I was personally upset when the weekly added matchmaking because it meant you couldn't wait for gaffers to jump into your weekly. But I understand that it is probably better for the game as a whole.
I've been playing this "shell" for nearly 1000 hours. Destiny is one of the best shooters out right now. And I actually wish there was more DLC - not quite the platform you claim it is.
chrisboers
Neo Member
I fail to see how an online matchmaking would not be able to work for Raids, but finding a random group on GAF or other forum would.
They are essentially the same: a random group trying to do a raid.
For me: matchmaking would/should be able to fix the halfway dropouts by filling up the team again with new players. I've started more than one Vanguard mission, only to see it finished within five minutes, or even seconds after I joined. My award was balanced according to time and effort. I don't see why that wouldn't work for raids.
They are essentially the same: a random group trying to do a raid.
For me: matchmaking would/should be able to fix the halfway dropouts by filling up the team again with new players. I've started more than one Vanguard mission, only to see it finished within five minutes, or even seconds after I joined. My award was balanced according to time and effort. I don't see why that wouldn't work for raids.
Read this. One of my favorite internet articles to quote during discussions about this topic.
http://www.alexc.me/a-scientific-explanation-why-diablo-3-is-less-addictive-than-diablo-2/417/
You make some good points. I don't know how it is on the PS with regards to Destiny (or anything for that matter) but I can tell you that raiding through matchmaking would be a lesson in frustration.
There is too much coordination that needs to take place. You need to be geared to a certain point before evening trying to go otherwise you'll be forcing everyone else to carry you since you won't have the survivability or the damage output needed to help bring down mobs and bosses. This is where having a group of friends is nice because more often than not my friends are more than willing to carry me through all the way to the end of the raid when I had sucky gear, but when you have people in matchmaking doing that, not everyone likes to carry someone else all the time that's not their friend and it gets frustrating trying to down a boss but can't because you are constantly picking someone else up off the floor. which is one of the main reasons why I don't like my friends carrying me, I like carrying my own weight so to speak.
"I like making up fake statistics to strengthen my argument."
As the people on the GAF thread invest time to getting groups together and also like playing the game for sometimes hours in one sitting, the issue with matchmaking in a raid, is you're at the third CP and then little billy needs to eat as his mom will be angry if he doesn't. With raid matchmaking you'd be constantly getting new players in and at random checkpoints there are more than one strategy to get past things so there could be fights/quitters due to fights, it would just make the game not as fun.
I say that they give the option so you can all see just what a horrible idea it is and then you can post here saying you're sorry and that you were wrong about matchmaking for raids.
Have you not read any of the last 3 pages ?
Forgetting the horrendous single player mode and bland as shit PVP (neither of which are consumer unfriendly), yes the lack of matchmaking is lazy and stupid. They added it finally to the weekly strike and I've used it ever since and never once had a problem with any group I joined completing it. Giving gamers the option to use it wouldn't stop people from playing with friends. Options are good. People who argue that not having options is good are bad.
Ashler
Member
No worries. Looking back my initial reply to you could have been a bit more pleasant. And yes, maybe having it in-game would speed up the invitation + gathering of the party members. I could go for that option as well, although I have a hard time believing that Bungie would take the time to implement such a solution when they already have matchmaking coded into the game.
The defenses here remind me of the defense for the old Nintendo friend code system back in the day. Its funny how that goes.
Twilight Gap
Member
The weekly strike isn't difficult and takes an average of 20 minutes to complete. Matchmaking for that (unfortunately at the expense of solo play) is no big deal.
You say that as if Nightfall is hard. More often than not Nightfall has a burn enabled which allows you to kill the final boss in a matter of seconds. None of it outside of hardmode raids is remotely difficult. It's all pretty much baby-mode WoW.
chrisboers
Neo Member
I *HAVE* read the last pages, but anything said about matchmade groups can easily be said about GAF groups, as it's also said that these groups are formed within 5 minutes.
As a working dad, I often have to leave my game mid-session, so I definitely cannot dedicate 2-3 hours in one sitting to a Raid. But, I can easily go to the GAF thread, join a group there, and pretend to sit through it all. Then, when I have to leave mid-session, the group would still be with -at least- one man down.
All I'm saying is: it would be better if Destiny itself had a good mechanism to both service both me (who can join a Raid for no more than an hour) AND those dedicated to sit it out entirely.
As a working dad, I often have to leave my game mid-session, so I definitely cannot dedicate 2-3 hours in one sitting to a Raid. But, I can easily go to the GAF thread, join a group there, and pretend to sit through it all. Then, when I have to leave mid-session, the group would still be with -at least- one man down.
All I'm saying is: it would be better if Destiny itself had a good mechanism to both service both me (who can join a Raid for no more than an hour) AND those dedicated to sit it out entirely.
silver.tongue
Member
Well... I actually agree with no matchmaking in raids.
For nightfalls I don't care. They could add it and it wouldnt change anything for me.
If you have trouble getting ppl to play with, go to the Destiny OT here on GAF. Everybody is super friendly and will gladly guide new ppl in their raids.
For nightfalls I don't care. They could add it and it wouldnt change anything for me.
If you have trouble getting ppl to play with, go to the Destiny OT here on GAF. Everybody is super friendly and will gladly guide new ppl in their raids.
When you have team work and co-ordination.
Matchmaking invites the devil for tea and he'll mess with you.
Until the option to boot or the option of a player going afk for a strike ends I want no matchmaking in my nightfall.
chrisboers
Neo Member
Would they, if I mentioned I may have to butt out any second because my kid is crying?
Honestly we always have people that go to the toilet, fall asleep, go for a smoke.
If you just say hey back in 5 put yourself in a safe spot then we're not going to be like OHHH KICK THIS GUY. We do understand that people have commitments
Firstly, why would you join a raid group if you can't put the time in to finish the raid? You have 5 others depending on you. You are the reason that matchmaking is a bad idea. You are the guy who would leave half way through and leave everyone else stuck.
No offence intended, I understand your reasons why you would have to leave, if you have a child, but that doesn't make it ok to join a party knowing that you can't see it through. If you are leaving for 5 mins, that's different... but perma-quitting is crap.
If anything, your situation is why you should be doing pre-arranged games. Ones where you declare your situation and agree to do a raid in 2 sittings with like minded parents for example.
Also, the VoG can be done in an hour if you all know what you are doing.
Secondly, the main crux of raids is communication as discussed at length in the preceding pages. Matchmaking means that most people do not talk. I have yet to do a matchmade weekly where mics are used.
SkoomaSuckinSwit
Member
Matchmaking large raids seems to work with other games, like FFXIV.
Even if you get a bum crew, AT LEAST you might run into a few like-minded or decent people who you'll add to your Friend's List.
That there are websites dedicated to hooking up players to do raids is sad.
Destiny is not a social game. It's a click-ish game, it's anti-new friends.
Especially true now that the game has been out 6 months. New buyers of the game, esp those without an extensive friends list, are going to find themselves basically without an endgame after the campaign is over & grinding the matchmaking strikes for a few weeks.
Makes me think that Acti-Bungie aren't really concerned with retaining new players, as much as keeping the current large pool of addicted players on the hamster wheel.
Even if you get a bum crew, AT LEAST you might run into a few like-minded or decent people who you'll add to your Friend's List.
That there are websites dedicated to hooking up players to do raids is sad.
Destiny is not a social game. It's a click-ish game, it's anti-new friends.
Especially true now that the game has been out 6 months. New buyers of the game, esp those without an extensive friends list, are going to find themselves basically without an endgame after the campaign is over & grinding the matchmaking strikes for a few weeks.
Makes me think that Acti-Bungie aren't really concerned with retaining new players, as much as keeping the current large pool of addicted players on the hamster wheel.
What argument? I said the OT is proof that a better matchmaking system is needed.
See that's a choice I'd like to make. You can make the choice to not use it. Choices are good.
Twilight Gap
Member
there's less margin for error during the nightfall because of the burns and other modifiers, so it is "hard" compared to the weekly. the kicked-to-orbit modifier could probably be removed in favor of restarting at the beginning of the strike, but that assumes the team has time or patience to stick around and redo the strike if they wipe.
that change, along with anti-grief systems would need to be in place before nightfall matchmaking.
Trickster
Member
Ignoring whether the 80% number is accurate or not. Would you disagree with the notion that Destiny could benefit from better matching and social tools?
MMO's have text chat to get around this problem.
Bungie made the right decision for the wrong reasons, the social features aren't there and like you said the fact that we have to rely on websites outside the game just surmises how much of a failure Destiny as a "shared world shooter" is, at the same time the raid mechanics are implemented in such a way that one person can wipe a whole team if he doesn't know when to get off the middle plate on the bridge to Crota for example.
SkoomaSuckinSwit
Member
Did you even bother to read any of the thread?
I read the first 1 1/2 pages.
I also have not had my morning coffee. Maybe if I did, I'd look like your gif, lol.
If I had time to read every page in this thread, I would have had time to sign up for some Destiny club, and ain't nobody got time for jumping through those kinda hoops.
This
Anyone could just ignore a LFG system and use whatever ever method they currently do
Why would you argue against having the option?
If you read the post that Zoba created it would answer your question. Match making would not do the player triaging/filtering you would be looking for. You could be match made with a player that does not have a mic, speaks another language ect...
Slightly related, but I would love to see a system like the one featured in Warframe blanket-applied to all activities: a drop-down selector with the options Solo, Friends, and Public. Would be the best of all worlds, allowing the user to have complete control over whether they want to use matchmaking or not and whether they want anyone to even be able to join their session (with the nice side-effect of reviving solo Weeklies; I do miss those). Mind you, this says nothing about any potential design changes that might occur by introducing matchmaking into raids or the Nightfall. And obviously the solo option would have to be disabled for raids. But generally speaking, more options are better.
And as someone who plays the hell out of this game, and someone with a keen interest in psychology, it pains me to see people willfully turning a blind eye to the insidious practices and decisions being made surrounding the game's design. This game is a blatant demonstration of the absolute mastery of psychological manipulation, and only the most far-gone people can deny this. I'm not saying it's wrong to enjoy it, or that the designers are these cartoon villains that set out to ruin lives by carefully constructing a system to rob people of their time, money, and self-control, but at least acknowledge that it's there. That alone gives you a little more power over the addiction.
And as someone who plays the hell out of this game, and someone with a keen interest in psychology, it pains me to see people willfully turning a blind eye to the insidious practices and decisions being made surrounding the game's design. This game is a blatant demonstration of the absolute mastery of psychological manipulation, and only the most far-gone people can deny this. I'm not saying it's wrong to enjoy it, or that the designers are these cartoon villains that set out to ruin lives by carefully constructing a system to rob people of their time, money, and self-control, but at least acknowledge that it's there. That alone gives you a little more power over the addiction.
That said, anybody on XBO should add hiryu64. Been playing the main game and am just starting to raid, and I'd love a group of good people that could show me the ropes.
chrisboers
Neo Member
To all asking why I would join a Raid I cannot commit to finishing: I don't I've never done a Raid (yet) especially because of this.
I've done raids with people from GAF who let people know they had no mic (or barely spoke English) before going into the raid. It's not a big deal. This game's content isn't difficult if you've ever played a real MMO. Why is it that randoms can figure out WoW raids and 5-man dungeons on hard mode but Destiny players can't?
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
The only thing anti-consumer about Destiny is that it keeps me from playing a lot of other games.
You said 80% of posts are about matchmaking - that is completely untrue.
There needs to be better in game tools for group formation, yes. Matchmaking for raids won't work in it's native form. It barely works for the heroics lol.
Eastern US. I'll likely be on within the next few hours. Got a 30 Warlock that's itching for some nicer gear. Thanks!Added you, Where are you located? We are in UK.
Seconded.
Twilight Gap
Member
Destiny's lobby system doesn't facilitate this. By the time you can talk to your teammates, you're already in a game with them.
The UI needs to be overhauled for the experience to be smooth. Otherwise, Bungie's going to spend time throwing duct tape on matchmaking once it breaks instead of making sure the damn raid doesn't glitch on you after the fact.
Now let us all leave 99% of arguments why some of us thinks it is not a good idea aside, and concentrate on one very simple:
Newcomer players would never even try Raids after they would be wiped out for hours on both initial sequences of either VoG or CE.
Imagine yourself as newcomer player. No experience in Alpha, Beta, no friends - you are vast majority of ordinary Destiny player. And because of the system, you can level to LV30 very quickly. You will have LV30 gear, but no appropriate Raid weapon by no mean.
And then you hit "RAID" button for matchmaking, with your LV30 gear, some beautiful blue Auto Rifle, purple Sniper and crappy blue Launcher. And in one second, there you are, with other randoms, all geared up to their teeth, ready to tackle entry to Vault of Glass for the first time. Venus, tara-rah, here I come, Raid Baby!
Yeah, in your dreams Fleischman.
Yes, there is maybe one experienced player there, he has mic, he has all gear. But what does he do when he see all those randoms running around with no clue, dying under Pretorians every 2 minutes? He quits after 10 minutes. I would. Sorry guys. You would too. Anyone would.
Raids are not designed to be tackled without team, coordination and effort to invest time. And no way randoms can sustain such prerequisites.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
I sold it before the first DLC. At this point I am waiting for the game to undergo a WoW like facelift in a future expansion or sequel. Too many of the things outside of the core gameplay are so undercooked it is frustrating.
As a member of Gaf I don't see how you can find it impossible to do a raid. In the OT thread it's basically people setting them up constantly and announcing when they are going to do it. It's also very possible to get to lvl 31 without ever doing a raid. 3 pieces of faction or vanguard gear with 1 exotic and you're ready to raid.
Crota normal drops raid gear and that raid is easy. MM won't solve all the problems but people have come up with the solutions that you seek. It just requires a bit more work from you which sucks but everything is possible if you want to do it. I'm an everyday player who found a clan from being awesome in crucible. Now I talk to those guys everyday and get everything done.
Crota normal drops raid gear and that raid is easy. MM won't solve all the problems but people have come up with the solutions that you seek. It just requires a bit more work from you which sucks but everything is possible if you want to do it. I'm an everyday player who found a clan from being awesome in crucible. Now I talk to those guys everyday and get everything done.
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