Twilight Gap
Member
80% of those posts are about Nami dismantling a husk of the pit.
Destiny is very much a consumer-unfriendly product
- Thread starter down 2 orth
- Start date
80% of those posts are about Nami dismantling a husk of the pit.
Nameless
Member
The lack of matchmaking is indefensible. Even if the arguments against it were valid, which I'm not convinced they are, you wouldn't be required to use it. Anyone who prefers playing with their regular group(s) of seasoned friends or team begging, recruiting, and setting up Destiny Dates on GAF/the internet could go on doing so -- but those aren't viable options for a lot of people. You certainly shouldn't be forced to solicit online and/or schedule to experience a mode in a videogame.
Matchmaking won't work for raids, and it's different from forming yo a group in GAF with ransoms because the group from GAF would wait for people, teach then compensate for them and communicate. If you matchmake none of that's I'll happen, you'll have AFKers, griefers and quitters...because there are no consequences for quitting with randoms. You'll also have people dropping out of a raid in hopes of getting a better group..that doesn't happen in GAF
Destiny needs a better social interaction system in places like tower and such so that people can form up, chat and such there. What it let's you do now is just dance and invite people. Matchmaking would fuck things up because there are no means in place to counter what I talked about above. Basically Destiny will become DestinyLFG.
Also the game has flaws but it's the one game that made me start talking with my old friends who I had no business to talking, now I play with them everyday. I made new friends through GAF too. Basically it's the first online game that I have properly invested time in and been involved with a community since Gears of War 2. And this is after all the issues in the game.
Destiny needs a better social interaction system in places like tower and such so that people can form up, chat and such there. What it let's you do now is just dance and invite people. Matchmaking would fuck things up because there are no means in place to counter what I talked about above. Basically Destiny will become DestinyLFG.
Also the game has flaws but it's the one game that made me start talking with my old friends who I had no business to talking, now I play with them everyday. I made new friends through GAF too. Basically it's the first online game that I have properly invested time in and been involved with a community since Gears of War 2. And this is after all the issues in the game.
DryvBy
Member
How would a Raid work for you then with matchmaking? Imagine you get half-way through the VoG and need to leave. The next night you've got to hope that someone quits and you're next in line to jump into that matched game. Otherwise, you'll be playing the intro over and over and over and over again.
You seem to be the idea person for getting a group through GAF or some other online community.
I found a group on r/fireteams / PSN trophies and managed to spend 2 entire weeks with the team while we figured out how to do the VoG raid flawlessly on normal. When one person had to go, we'd quit for the night as a team. These are people that had similar goals and almost always only had a couple of hours (if that) a night to play. There's absolutely no way possible to get this type of teamwork through match making the way it is.
Twilight Gap
Member
I wont use it. I'm only competing for Bungie's development resources. Matchmaking, LFG board or whatever - probably not going to happen in the next 3-6 months if it takes Bungie several months to patch a dozen weapons.
Matchmaking can already be a crap shoot with Weekly Strikes. It'd be an absolute nightmare for Raids and Nightfalls. Bungie knows there are alternative means to find a team and that's why it isn't a top priority to them. I'm not sure I'd call this consumer unfriendly.
Of course this is given the way they did Weekly Strikes, forcing the matchmaking. But I'm with the above poster, I'd rather them fix bugs and make new content then work on matchmaking.
Of course this is given the way they did Weekly Strikes, forcing the matchmaking. But I'm with the above poster, I'd rather them fix bugs and make new content then work on matchmaking.
Give War A Chance
Member
This pretty much nails it. Options are better than no options.
If they're a disaster, don't use them, and continue doing what you've been doing. It's not taking that original option away from you. For some people though, they just want matchmade groups like every other game has. I personally think those groups will fail in raids, a LOT, but that's okay. No one is being forced to do that.
lol or cheesecake (homerdrool.jpeg)
--
The consensus is that people who raid regularly understand MM won't work, but looking from the outside, MM is logical. Anyone that plays the raids should understand how terrible MM would be for the overall experience.
The current matchmaking system would make it a complete shitfest option or no.
thejazzking
Neo Member
Honestly, I think the main reason there isn't matchmaking in raids is that it is usually a commitment in excess of an hour. Many hours when talking about your first VoG run. And the raids require communication. Whenever I'm matchmade into a strike, nobody ever has a microphone, or they're talking to friends in a party. You ABSOLUTELY need to be talking to be able to complete the VoG, at least on your first few attempts. To be matchmade with a group of people without microphones would mean you have a pretty terrible time of it, especially if not everyone is experienced. And then people start to quit, and you have to be matchmade again, or someone has to join your raid. If two people leave on the final checkpoint, you're probably boned.
Then think of the people that want a fresh run, and join in the middle of the Gorgon maze, or the Atheon checkpoint, having missed out on a lot of content. By forcing you to group up beforehand, you can ensure everyone is party and mic'd up, and you're generally less likely to quit. So I can see why they do it.
I actually think the best thing would be to have a toggle. Matchmaking on: get matchmade into whatever you want: patrols, stories, strikes, daily, weekly, nightfall, raids, whatever. Then you toggle matchmaking off, and you can solo what you like or team up with one other person.
That could even apply to the crucible? Let people join a private P2P session. Learn the maps, dick around, have some fun, play with weapons. Maybe disable XP/glimmer rewards so as to avoid exploits. Best of both worlds.
Couple of things:
DestinyGAF has an LFG thread to find groups.
I've always had good results with r/fireteams.
There are quite a few destinyLFG.com or .net sites that you don't have to sign up for.
Or look into the100.io, get put with a group of ~100 people according to your preferences - age, region, time of play, pvp/pve. You get your own little community.
Hope that helps.
Then think of the people that want a fresh run, and join in the middle of the Gorgon maze, or the Atheon checkpoint, having missed out on a lot of content. By forcing you to group up beforehand, you can ensure everyone is party and mic'd up, and you're generally less likely to quit. So I can see why they do it.
I actually think the best thing would be to have a toggle. Matchmaking on: get matchmade into whatever you want: patrols, stories, strikes, daily, weekly, nightfall, raids, whatever. Then you toggle matchmaking off, and you can solo what you like or team up with one other person.
That could even apply to the crucible? Let people join a private P2P session. Learn the maps, dick around, have some fun, play with weapons. Maybe disable XP/glimmer rewards so as to avoid exploits. Best of both worlds.
Couple of things:
DestinyGAF has an LFG thread to find groups.
I've always had good results with r/fireteams.
There are quite a few destinyLFG.com or .net sites that you don't have to sign up for.
Or look into the100.io, get put with a group of ~100 people according to your preferences - age, region, time of play, pvp/pve. You get your own little community.
Hope that helps.
I think the right answer is a server browser in game that basically mimics destinylfg, but isn't such a PITA to actually use.
That way he can do a checkpoint per night, drop out, and there is then an easy way for the team to repost and find a fill in.
squidhands
Member
As someone who wanted matchmaking for raids before I ever did one, I'm quite confident in saying that matchmaking would never work. The raids are too complex to leave it all to randoms who don't communicate.
You guys and girls that still have the game and aren't in the know, you're legitimately missing out on a great gaming experience by not interacting with the people on this very board.
Exactly. DestinyGAF is one of the most helpful, friendly groups I've ever had the pleasure of talking and playing with. I've not met one person who wasn't at the very least patient when I didn't understand what I needed to do during a raid. Hell, Hawkian even hosts raids every week for people who have never done them before, and they're a blast. Also, he does a literal school for the end boss of the newest raid every Sunday.
You guys and girls that still have the game and aren't in the know, you're legitimately missing out on a great gaming experience by not interacting with the people on this very board.
SkoomaSuckinSwit
Member
Destiny players living in a Destiny cocoon only believe this, because Bungievision has fed you this nonsense.
Matchmaking, lobby browsers, etc works for other games, and would work with Desiny.
All the game needs is a level & gear check, and then match away.
Sure you'll find some griefers, but you'll also find new friends (maybe in your area/region).
They do need an LFG function in the tower for raids and nightfalls.
As for the future of "expansions", DLC 2 will likely be similar to DLC 1 since that was mapped out before the game shipped. What I find interesting is what Comet will be like in the fall. They sold quite a few expansion passes early on, but there are people like me that may not buy more expansions that are that light on the content. On top of that, how much exclusive content being missed out on for the XBox community will finally make people who actually like playing the game feel obligated to pass. If they ever make a Playstation exclusive raid, they may as well make the game console exclusive IMO.
As for the future of "expansions", DLC 2 will likely be similar to DLC 1 since that was mapped out before the game shipped. What I find interesting is what Comet will be like in the fall. They sold quite a few expansion passes early on, but there are people like me that may not buy more expansions that are that light on the content. On top of that, how much exclusive content being missed out on for the XBox community will finally make people who actually like playing the game feel obligated to pass. If they ever make a Playstation exclusive raid, they may as well make the game console exclusive IMO.
It's not my fault the game keeps giving me one. I had 40 dropped for me and I only kept 2.
You live outside the cocoon and think that these raids can be done just by a random group of people that don't chat to each other or have proper gear ect.
You guys complain about "amount of time it takes"
You're looking at possibly a full week of wipes before downing crota on a good week on hard.
When people who took 5 mins to post in the thread can get it done in one try.
What's your playtime? I can tell it's probably less than 10 hours and you've probably not ever completed more than NM VOG OG settings.
Do you play Destiny? I don't need to be fed information and am capable of coming up with my own conclusions. In Bungie's MM current form it won't work. People bring void weapons to Arc Burn and can barely complete a weekly heroic. Raids would be a horrendous experience.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
The problem isn't matchmaking, it's that there isn't an in-game way to try to find people to do something similar. Looking on GAF or on lfg sites is the same as matchmaking, but requires an extra step of going outside to find people.
Hell, the Clan feature ended up being completely pointless other than for trophies.
Hell, the Clan feature ended up being completely pointless other than for trophies.
GAF people don't drop out, we are a team and work together, we game with each other for the last 7 months, it's totally different from what you're saying.
You can do vanguard strikes with your eyes closed, raids you can't.
Twilight Gap
Member
I don't think it's nonsense. Matchmaking currently just wouldn't work for reasons already exhausted. Matchmaking "ideally" isn't going to happen anytime soon, considering
-the unlikelihood that Bungie decides to implement matchmaking for end-game activities to begin with
-the time it takes Bungie to design features like lobby browsers
-the time it takes Bungie to update the live game
-the time it takes away from Bungie addressing other issues with the game
again, you can Raid 10 times before matchmaking comes along. I'll prove it and bring a team who has never raided through each of the weeks. You're bound to raid at least once during that time, but if you wait for matchmaking, you'll probably never end up raiding.
DestinyGAF doesn't bite so anyone can add us: PSN: Twilight_Gap
Why are you arguing against an option that you yourself wouldn't have to use? Hate to break it to ya, but tons of us are already playing and completing raids with randoms. Unfortunately we had to find them on our own because Bungie was too narrow minded to give us the option.
Which raid is too hard to do with randoms? Because I've done them all with randoms. The difficulty and strats required to beat them are insanely simple to anyone that's ever played an MMO.
When people defend the lack of matchmaking, are they saying that the current system is ideal? Why the fuck isn't there an in-game LFG? Why in christ's name do I buy a damn game that requires me to navigate web forums if I want to play the best, most-important end game content? Who in the fuck greenlit a game that provides almost zero ability to organize a 6 man group for end game content within the game itself?
Matchmaking would suck balls for Nightfall, since a wipe can literally set you back 30 minutes' worth of progress.
Matchmaking for raids would have to be highly filtered -- must have microphone, must have beaten the raid before. But even then what do you do when somebody drops out? Who gets rotated in to your group? Did that new person want to start in a halfway-finished raid or did (s)he want to do one from the beginning?
I think the main problem with matchmaking is that the people there often don't feel any obligation to the people they're playing with. They don't speak, they go AFK, they disconnect as soon as something comes up.
Spend a few weeks doing the Weekly Heroic in matchmaking and you begin to see where all the problems crop up.
Matchmaking for raids would have to be highly filtered -- must have microphone, must have beaten the raid before. But even then what do you do when somebody drops out? Who gets rotated in to your group? Did that new person want to start in a halfway-finished raid or did (s)he want to do one from the beginning?
I think the main problem with matchmaking is that the people there often don't feel any obligation to the people they're playing with. They don't speak, they go AFK, they disconnect as soon as something comes up.
Spend a few weeks doing the Weekly Heroic in matchmaking and you begin to see where all the problems crop up.
When I bought the game, I didn't know anyone. Nobody I knew owned a PS4. One friend at work bought a PS4 and has a completely different schedule.
Then I remembered I'm on this site. So I kind of wandered into the Destiny OT, said hi. I noticed Hawkian runs a noobie raid. I signed up. Had a great time. Invited those people to my friends list. They accepted. Now nearly my entire friends list is made up of DGAF people.
Came home from work on a Friday night. Saw people posting things like:
"Need 1 for Nightfall. At the boss. Get in here."
"Doing weekly. Anyone want coins?"
Then I did a 28 weekly with my then 25 Warlock - was trying to get enough coins for something from Xur. I got to Phogoth somehow - and put up a post on GAF "Hey guys, I'm a 25 and am at the boss. If you wouldn't mind helping a noob I would totally appreciate it. Hope you get great loot for helping me!" 2 guys popped on in about 30 seconds.
ALL DAY, EVERY DAY there are people all over the world posting in the DGAF OT.
"Hey need one for NM VoG"
"Need 4 for HM Atheon"
"Hey I have the Gorgon checkpoint on Hard - anyone need it?"
"I'm at the boss on the NF, get in here if you want easy loot!"
I go to Reddit. They have "Mentor Monday." Wow that's nice. Kind of quaint though, considering every day on DGAF someone says "Would you mind taking a noob in the Vault or through CE?" To which nearly everyone replies a version of "Be glad to!"
Hawkian hosts the noob raids every Thursday, alternating between VoG and CE.
He hosts a Crota-Sword school every Sunday night.
With the amazing community here, if you can't make friends or find someone to play with in Destiny, and you're already on GAF, friend, you're DOING IT WRONG.
tl;dr - You don't need matchmaking. You have DGAF.
Then I remembered I'm on this site. So I kind of wandered into the Destiny OT, said hi. I noticed Hawkian runs a noobie raid. I signed up. Had a great time. Invited those people to my friends list. They accepted. Now nearly my entire friends list is made up of DGAF people.
Came home from work on a Friday night. Saw people posting things like:
"Need 1 for Nightfall. At the boss. Get in here."
"Doing weekly. Anyone want coins?"
Then I did a 28 weekly with my then 25 Warlock - was trying to get enough coins for something from Xur. I got to Phogoth somehow - and put up a post on GAF "Hey guys, I'm a 25 and am at the boss. If you wouldn't mind helping a noob I would totally appreciate it. Hope you get great loot for helping me!" 2 guys popped on in about 30 seconds.
ALL DAY, EVERY DAY there are people all over the world posting in the DGAF OT.
"Hey need one for NM VoG"
"Need 4 for HM Atheon"
"Hey I have the Gorgon checkpoint on Hard - anyone need it?"
"I'm at the boss on the NF, get in here if you want easy loot!"
I go to Reddit. They have "Mentor Monday." Wow that's nice. Kind of quaint though, considering every day on DGAF someone says "Would you mind taking a noob in the Vault or through CE?" To which nearly everyone replies a version of "Be glad to!"
Hawkian hosts the noob raids every Thursday, alternating between VoG and CE.
He hosts a Crota-Sword school every Sunday night.
With the amazing community here, if you can't make friends or find someone to play with in Destiny, and you're already on GAF, friend, you're DOING IT WRONG.
tl;dr - You don't need matchmaking. You have DGAF.
Twilight Gap
Member
the current system is primitive and outdated, but it works. the ideal system would take bungie months to implement when they're already slow to update the game.
No, we actually played through the raids and end up agreeing with Bungies decision, I was actually in the pro matchmaking camp before the game launched.
"Lobby browsers" now we're talking, no-one is saying no to finding a way to finding other players inside the game, it's just the current matchmaking system as it stands is absolutely dogshit for this mode because there's next to no social features in the game, Bungie made the right call for the wrong reasons.
lulz, we already have "Gjallahorn or bust" mentality in LFG, that would create an even worse feeling of "consumer-unfriendlyness" than asking in the Neogaf thread.
HiredN00bs
Banned
Why are you arguing for an option that would be complete shit?
They'll add better in-game social tools. They already did with voice chat and people hardly use it (I wish they had kept the Reach system where muting was quick and had everybody opt-in to voice chat by default).
This would be an outdated system in 2007. Right now, it's unacceptable and I'm shocked by the amount of people that say 'no big deal' or actually defend it. Imagine EA's next Battlefield required you to navigate web forums in order to create a squad?
The current system isn't just not ideal, it's complete dogshit, it's basically going in blind leading blind people.
You're wrong about this. FINDING like minded people who posted on LFG will have a much better chance than completing a raid then a group who have quite literally just been thrown together by chance.
At least with LFG/GAF/ECT you're finding like minded people who have invested a little bit of outside time to research and look for ways to find players.
the only way to make raids matchmade is like in WoW when they easy mode the hell out of them so people can match make and win and feel good about themselves.
I would rather not have that choice. These raids aren't designed for randoms, and I do not want a choice when actually it would liquidate the difficulty of the raids just to cater for lazy people.
Bungie have advertised all sorts of ways you can find raid groups and it's not a secret code to get to Reddit/LFG.
Also you may have completed normal mode, but HM crota is not joke with randoms I can assure you that.
squidhands
Member
Honestly, I think it comes from playing the raids and not some force-fed drivel that you think we're blinded to.
The biggest issue is communication. For right or wrong, Bungie implemented team chat as an option in all of Destiny's matchmaking out of some sort of desire to eliminate verbal griefing. I've done lots of strikes, and not once have I ever heard anyone use team chat unless I partied up with them beforehand.
No imagine that lack of communication in a matchmade raid, where you need specific roles filled within a certain timeframe or else you wipe back to a checkpoint. Now imagine a person trying the raid for their first time, and no one is talking to them to tell them how to complete the jumping puzzle in Vault of Glass.
I really can't think of any good ways to force the level of communication on matchmade players to make raids a consistently enjoyable experience.
i plays game lol
Banned
It's cute when non-destiny people claim that matchmaking would work for raids.
I do think it's ridiculous that nightfalls don't have matchmaking. I've solo'd them plenty of times and feel having an extra body or two, even if they're terrible, is pretty helpful overall.
I do think it's ridiculous that nightfalls don't have matchmaking. I've solo'd them plenty of times and feel having an extra body or two, even if they're terrible, is pretty helpful overall.
silver.tongue
Member
That's why people die all the time, maybe you're just some leet video game hero man, for like 3 weeks there was no burns, and randoms would die constantly unless good communication.
It just sounds like you have no experience with the game from what you talk about
'matter of seconds'??
Over exaggerate much?
UncleCross
Member
Yes, it's actually probably closer to 90%.
Drive bye posts like that are a danger for your longevity around here Jr, I ain't ratting but lesson learned.
The only thing destiny has done is made me new friends and kept me from playing other games.
The end
akaFullmetal
Member
Destiny needs some kind of communication board or away to say they are looking for help in game not outside the game. Should be pretty easy.
I personally need help with xyur in the summing pits when fighting photgoth, any takers? My psn is akafullmetal PS4 version.
I personally need help with xyur in the summing pits when fighting photgoth, any takers? My psn is akafullmetal PS4 version.
What I mean to say is: Why dance around the wording? Consumer unfriendly sounds like something you'd say about a dishwasher.
This is just a bad game plain and simple. Cool ideas, terrible execution.
This is a pretty dishonest way to frame the latest update; Destiny has had updates, and major features rolled in them, every month, often more than one per month, since release. There were not sitting around taking six months to update the weapons. The last one was pretty large and did a major rebalance of the sandbox; it was particularly transformative for PvE.
To the OP: matchmaking would not work for raids, period. It would take exactly one person to destroy a game session for everyone, deliberately or otherwise. All the in-game incentives in the world - quit penalties, matchmaking bans - would not stop people from joining just to quit later and screw people over. Or from grabbing the relic and refusing to use it. Or from refusing to revive people. Or...the list is huge and has been listed here already. We all know how randoms and griefers are. Add one of them to a raid group and the group is doomed and everyone has a terrible experience.
What Bungie should be faulted for is not having other tools to aid in grouping built into the game, once they made the decision not to include matchmaking. I can't even tell who has run a raid for the week, or who wants to, when looking at the online players. You either spam friends, or use outside resources like GAF to coordinate. A handful of in-game tools would go a long ways toward improving the current state of raid group formation.
Grouping up is a large part of the thread, but this is either an exaggeration, misinformation, or trolling. In any event, I suggest you stop now.
I used to be pro Raid matchmaking until I actually played them though properly on normal and hard. Now I realise. Matchmade raids would never ever work, total waste of time and doomed to failure. You need to communicate, simple as that. Even when you've run though the raids multiple times and you're all comfortable with your roles you still need to be in constant chatter with your fireteam to deal with the unexpected. Imagine if you got someone new at Crota, matchmade in right into the Crystal Room - you all have to gather around the crystal to kickstart the spawns, if they're stood off to one side not paying attention or AFK.....the raid is stuck for everyone else.
Having said that, its no issue to me if matchmaking raids was an option - it doesn't negate the current system. If people want to jump randomly into raids with randoms who have no idea whats going on and are waving around inappropriate gear (blues!) then crack on.
If anything makes Destiny consumer unfriendly, its RNG and the loot drops. I realise that I theoretically have the same loot chances as everyone else, but honestly its hard to shake the feeling that RNGesus hates me most of the time.
Having said that, its no issue to me if matchmaking raids was an option - it doesn't negate the current system. If people want to jump randomly into raids with randoms who have no idea whats going on and are waving around inappropriate gear (blues!) then crack on.
If anything makes Destiny consumer unfriendly, its RNG and the loot drops. I realise that I theoretically have the same loot chances as everyone else, but honestly its hard to shake the feeling that RNGesus hates me most of the time.
Twilight Gap
Member
It's absolutely unacceptable, but so is a lot of design flaws in the game that Destiny's fanbase has complained about since the alpha. What's important now is that Raids are not broken (entirely) and that Bungie allocates their resources wisely. They obviously don't have much of it if we're waiting months for simple changes.
If Destiny 2 launches without any of the stuff players have asked for such as private matches, in-game clan rosters, and whatever necessary for end-game content accessibility, then we've got a really serious problem.
The updates are mostly welcome and usually substantial, but they're inconsistent. According to the patch notes, it's been nearly a month since the weapon balance patch, and the last major patch before that was 6 weeks prior. That's a lot of time for updates to a live game designed to keep you playing every day.
If Bungie decided today that they would implement matchmaking for end-game content, I don't think we'd see it until after House of Wolves. They average a major patch every 5 weeks, so we're due for another one before this month ends and another one at the end of April. Matchmaking would probably end up in the May or June update, and by then you could Raid a dozen times.
Solar Burn Omnigul goes down in 10 seconds, but the player dies in less than 1 on Arc Burn.
That's just trolling right there.
EL CUCO
Member
Helldivers, a little game very much like Destiny, absolutely thrives off it's community play but atleast the game provides you with the ability to filter/view and join other (Public) games in progress. They even have a neat S.O.S. strategem you can call in, which is supposed to give your game a little extra visibility, encouraging others to join.
Bungie just put zero thought in to this type of stuff.
Bungie just put zero thought in to this type of stuff.
Post that on the DGAF OT, ask if anyone needs to kill Xyor as you're looking to run it soon.
Post:
Need 2 to kill Xyor the Unwed pain in my butt. Really would love to get my hands on a Thorn. Please help! PSN:akafullmetal Join on me! I'm in orbit.
1: akafullmetal
2.
3.
Poker Face
Member
I'm really amazed that people have so much faith in randomly matched groups created through matchmaking.
But even more so that they haven't discovered the absolute GOLD MINE that is the OT.
Similar threads
- Poll
- Poll