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[pantsmith]

I've done raids with people from GAF who let people know they had no mic (or barely spoke English) before going into the raid. It's not a big deal. This game's content isn't difficult if you've ever played a real MMO. Why is it that randoms can figure out WoW raids and 5-man dungeons on hard mode but Destiny players can't?

I led a group of people who had no mics, which was horrible but doable with a lot of effort on my part. Doable doesnt mean ideal, or even fun though. It was a slog.

Randoms/pick up groups in WoW have always been hit or miss, depending on difficulty, and are almost exactly the same kind of group building that people like myself recommend for Destiny. Getting a group together is way different than someone being matchmade together into a group of six other random people who may not even speak the same language.

LFR, the WoW equivalent, is trash and far from fun. XIVs system works behind heavy gating, and you will find matchmade groups have little patience for people who dont know an encounter when its holding them back.

Im not some elitist, Ive played online games and seen what happens when you make it too easy for someone to get a group by just hitting a button. Theres no commitment, and then people complain when they cant beat the content or are paired with someone who is bad at the game, which either leads to trivializing the mechanics or overpowering them through better stats (which destiny cant really do- you can only ever be underpowered)

People should be encouraged and assisted if they want to do raids, absolutely no disagreement from me. Its just how that happens that makes the difference, and shapes the quality of that experience.

 

[TheGrue]

Matchmaking can already be a crap shoot with Weekly Strikes.

Wait, there is matchmaking for Weekly Strikes now? I might have to start playing again.

 

[glaurung]

Helldivers, a little game very much like Destiny, absolutely thrives off it's community play but atleast the game provides you with the ability to filter/view and join other (Public) games in progress. They even have a neat S.O.S. strategem you can call in, which is supposed to give your game a little extra visibility, encouraging others to join.

Bungie just put zero thought in to this type of stuff.

Helldivers has awesome, well thought out network features. Destiny is almost pathetic next to that.

I dropped Destiny and never got past the level 26 plateau. The thought of an endless grind even before they patched the planet currency system was unbearable, since the game offered so little variation in those set-piece battles. The endless bullet sponge bosses weren't fun after the third time either.

Hopefully Bungie has gleamed some truths from this half-baked release. Perhaps Destiny 2 will be an improved experience - but I am not buying into it until GAF approves it (plus my personal issues are resolved).

 

[Twilight Gap]

Helldivers, a little game very much like Destiny, absolutely thrives off it's community play but atleast the game provides you with the ability to filter/view and join other (Public) games in progress. They even have a neat S.O.S. strategem you can call in, which is supposed to give your game a little extra visibility, encouraging others to join.

Bungie just put zero thought in to this type of stuff.

I just think they ran out of time after scrapping the game repeatedly. Destiny is the meal that looks great on the menu, but is undercooked when it lands on your table. And then the Chef tries to tell you why it's not undercooked while he feeds you appetizers.

 

[LifEndz]

I still don't get their rationale for no matchmaking for raids or NF. I'm essentially teaming up with randoms as is, just via 3rd party forums and websites. Why not let me do that in-game? When I played Left 4 Dead 2 vs mode there was a lobby pre-match where you could talk to the other players and vote to boot someone. The one thing that would always get someone booted was not having a mic. A lobby system like that in destiny would help make playing the best parts of the game easier. As is I'm really getting tired of jumping through hoops to assemble the necessary number of players to do the NF or raid.

 

[Sola Scriptura]

Now as for the gripes of more dedicated players, the one I hear most is that the developers are more focused on closing player-friendly loopholes then they are fixing bugs with the game. Why is this important? Well because Destiny is designed so that long after people have played every bit of content that the game has to offer, they will grind over and over again just for a slim chance to get a really good item or to level up the items that they already own. It’s actually more fun than it sounds. But this grindfest is so carefully manicured to maximize the player’s time with the game to the point that when players actually outsmart the system and find out how to get something faster than how the developers wanted them to get it, the devs patch the game immediately. And once again on a whim, I think it’s because they want the players spending as much time as possible with the game, and to not be distracted playing something like Dying Light or Bloodborne once the next expansion comes out. But it’s kind of a slap in the face when you get kicked out of a server or die from of a bug in a raid, because you know that there has been more effort on fixing the game to be played the way someone else wants you to play it then to be played without so many flaws.

Bungie team members currently reading this thread, I hope you read that paragraph from the OP carefully. Tell us here on GAF what makes you different from any cash-grab mobile dev who designs games just as irresponsibly--games designed to hook the player into an endless gratification loop that maximizes your revenue.

This brings up the question all of Destiny GAF has had for quite some time, a question that still has not been answered:

Bungie, are you responsible for the cut story, the obvious change in direction mid-development, the grind, and the gratification loop, or was it the Activision execs with dollar signs in their eyes?

 

[Boogdud]

Kind of funny seeing this thread. I pretty much quit playing Destiny a few months ago, despite having fun for a while doing strikes and pe's and whatnot for a while. The reason I quit personally was that I'd reached a plateau in the level of gear/level I could get on my own. I hit the raid-wall. I was a member of a fairly serious raiding guild in wow for several years (among other mmos) and knew where it was going if I wanted to get any further and I just didn't want to go through it all again. Been there, done that.

Now the funny thing is, I have a cousin who picked up a PS4 for Christmas, he's a daddy-gamer, both of us being 40 we don't have a lot of time to game, etc. so we play in bursts when we can. He has never played an mmo in his life, he's pretty much been a console gamer forever and has never had any interest at all in an mmo. So he was completely blindsided when he got to the the gear cap and found out about the raiding scene. He had no clue about the "end-game" so to speak so he was pretty crushed when he found out that without having 4 other people (myself included) he literally could not progress.

There are a LOT of people that have never played this type of game that are in for /have had a big shock when they finally realize they can't get any further on their own (or with matchmaking).

Personally, as an mmo vet, I don't understand why the hell they add these kinds of ceilings in games that aren't even subscription based. At least with mmo's they're stringing you along because they want that $15 a month.

 

[jgf]

I still don't get their rationale for no matchmaking for raids or NF. I'm essentially teaming up with randoms as is, just via 3rd party forums and websites. Why not let me do that in-game? When I played Left 4 Dead 2 vs mode there was a lobby pre-match where you could talk to the other players and vote to boot someone. The one thing that would always get someone booted was not having a mic. A lobby system like that in destiny would help make playing the best parts of the game easier. As is I'm really getting tired of jumping through hoops to assemble the necessary number of players to do the NF or raid.

Because the guys you teamed up with via forum are some of the select few that actually put some effort in and went to a forum. So you basically filter out all players with a "whatever, fuck it lets go!" attitude. Those are most likely the ones that would ruin your experience. Showing up with underleveled gear, leaving after the first wipe or idling to get the no death bounty.

 

[Twilight Gap]

Kind of funny seeing this thread. I pretty much quit playing Destiny a few months ago, despite having fun for a while doing strikes and pe's and whatnot for a while. The reason I quit personally was that I'd reached a plateau in the level of gear/level I could get on my own. I hit the raid-wall. I was a member of a fairly serious raiding guild in wow for several years (among other mmos) and knew where it was going if I wanted to get any further and I just didn't want to go through it all again. Been there, done that.

Now the funny thing is, I have a cousin who picked up a PS4 for Christmas, he's a daddy-gamer, both of us being 40 we don't have a lot of time to game, etc. so we play in bursts when we can. He has never played an mmo in his life, he's pretty much been a console gamer forever and has never had any interest at all in an mmo. So he was completely blindsided when he got to the the gear cap and found out about the raiding scene. He had no clue about the "end-game" so to speak so he was pretty crushed when he found out that without having 4 other people (myself included) he literally could not progress.

There are a LOT of people that have never played this type of game that are in for /have had a big shock when they finally realize they can't get any further on their own (or with matchmaking).

Personally, as an mmo vet, I don't understand why the hell they add these kinds of ceilings in games that aren't even subscription based. At least with mmo's they're stringing you along because they want that $15 a month.

it's a fundamental problem with the game. it's designed to keep you playing as if it were subscription based, but it's not updated like it is, nor does it have the necessary features to connect you with players to keep you playing.

there are holes all over the place and it'd probably have been a commercial failure if it didn't play as good as it does.

 

[figadapaura]

I always see people saying they quit the game because they have no irl friends to play with. I don't either, but I never have trouble finding people to play with because GAF is full of them. I've made friends because of Destiny. What's so hard about posting in the OT to find a group?

I hit my enrage timer enough in PvP, I definitely don't want to be doing Nightfalls or Raids with these people.

Destiny's matchmaking system is far from perfect and they should do more to allow people to find groups in-game that doesn't involve running around the Tower inviting every 32 you see, but matchmaking is not the answer.

Yes, it's actually probably closer to 90%.

Hahaha why are you still going on about this? You were arguing this months ago iirc. Get over it. It's just sad at this point.

 

[phen0m24]

I've made friends because of Destiny.

There was this one time I made friends with a woman from an island across the ocean. She was pretty good at the game. Decent in PvP. Not too shabby with the sword, either.

Spoiler

wink wink she's awesome and... I'm not entirely certain that she sleeps LOL

Oh wait, it was Fig! (Waves at Fig)

SEE? DGAF+ (insert your name here) = WIN

 

[pantsmith]

I still don't get their rationale for no matchmaking for raids or NF. I'm essentially teaming up with randoms as is, just via 3rd party forums and websites. Why not let me do that in-game? When I played Left 4 Dead 2 vs mode there was a lobby pre-match where you could talk to the other players and vote to boot someone. The one thing that would always get someone booted was not having a mic. A lobby system like that in destiny would help make playing the best parts of the game easier. As is I'm really getting tired of jumping through hoops to assemble the necessary number of players to do the NF or raid.

You are talking about two different things, matchmaking and a lobby system.

If you were to just get matchmade into a random group in L4D, theres absolutely no guarantee the other three people (or bots) have any idea what they are doing, which becomes increasingly frustrating as the encounters demand increased coordination and teamwork on higher difficulties. Same idea.That little bit of team building makes all the difference.

A lobby, or whatever equivalent, would be awesome. No argument. But how do you design a raid for people without mics? How do you ensure that someone who signs up for the raid carries their weight and is commited to seeing it through to the end? One button that just drops you into a group is bad design.

 

[LollipoPReapeR]

I am prefacing this by saying I have not read the past 2 pages

No worries. Looking back my initial reply to you could have been a bit more pleasant. And yes, maybe having it in-game would speed up the invitation + gathering of the party members. I could go for that option as well, although I have a hard time believing that Bungie would take the time to implement such a solution when they already have matchmaking coded into the game.

To be honest, I would be less vehement in being anti-matchmaking if wasn't compulsory. Also bungie can do a lot of things that make players lives easier. Hell it took them 5 months to let you transfer things over website/app. I'm pretty sure by now they only have a skeleton crew still working on the base game. They ain't gonna implement either which is the sad reality of the situation. Though LFG is more likely if you factor out 'work'.




Also everyone, for everyone who is still pro matchmaking please address your argument to this post

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=156545563

 

[Vlade]

Matchmaking sucks to, everyone is idle, underleveled, or quits.

lfg exists and is good. there is literally no winning this point if the choice is matchmaking or no.

 

[Symbiotx]

Sounds like they've fixed nothing since I last played it. I really enjoyed the game mechanics, enough that I kept playing in spite of its glaring flaws for far too long, but once they broke exotics I decided I was out for good.

Maybe they'll figure things out for Destiny 2. Then again, if the expansions for Destiny sell well (are they?), they'll have no incentive to make a more interesting campaign or add matchmaking options or do much of anything but give us the same stuff all over again with new items and currencies to collect.

Nothing? That's not true at all. They just fixed a heavy ammo glitch that has been a big deal for a while. They have made lots of balancing adjustments with weapons and such. They've added voice options, more matchmaking, etc.

 

[pj]

You are talking about two different things, matchmaking and a lobby system.

If you were to just get matchmade into a random group in L4D, theres absolutely no guarantee the other three people (or bots) have any idea what they are doing, which becomes increasingly frustrating as the encounters demand increased coordination and teamwork on higher difficulties. Same idea.That little bit of team building makes all the difference.

A lobby, or whatever equivalent, would be awesome. No argument. But how do you design a raid for people without mics? How do you ensure that someone who signs up for the raid carries their weight and is commited to seeing it through to the end? One button that just drops you into a group is bad design.

You don't design it for people without mics, that's why he said he'd kick out people who don't talk. How do you ensure that someone will carry their weight in any circumstance? You can't. What if their power goes out, what if they have to go to dinner, what if they're just having a shitty day?

A lobby system with filtering would absolutely provide an adequate way to do destiny raids/NF. Would it compare to a highly organized team of 6 friends? Of course not, but how are you supposed to go from 0 to Awesome Team without some kind of intermediate step?

Right now that step is destinyLFG or reddit or gaf. It's ridiculous that Bungie hasn't integrated something into the game and even more ridiculous that people think it's OK the way it is.

 

[figadapaura]

There was this one time I made friends with a woman from an island across the ocean. She was pretty good at the game. Decent in PvP. Not too shabby with the sword, either.

Spoiler

wink wink she's awesome and... I'm not entirely certain that she sleeps LOL

Oh wait, it was Fig! (Waves at Fig)

SEE? DGAF+ (insert your name here) = WIN

lol you're not so bad yourself Colonel

 

[Symbiotx]

They just added matchmaking to the weekly heroics. It makes sense and is easy enough to do with randoms, although you will still find people AFKing it.

They've said time and time again why there isn't matchmaking for certain things, but are still looking for ways to add more. It's not some ploy to get your friends to buy the game. I have no real friends that play and yet I play nightfall every week 3 times, and have beat both raids on both difficulties. The community created LFG options are great, and it's never hard to find people to play with.

I would like to see more matchmaking still, but blaming the lack of matchmaking in some modes on consumer ploys is just silly.

 

[Omegasquash]

Matchmaking I can live with on the Weeklies to some degree (the kind that hasn't spent too much time burning me). PVP is rough but you make the best of it.

There's no way on earth that matchmaking would work for raids. Language issues, gear needs, people's real actual life schedules...nope. I got a bunch of people on my list that I met through lfg, and it's worked well so far. I'm happy with it that way.

Only beef I've got is with RNGesus every now and again. 8 consecutive nightfalls while my people got exotics, and me with the k/d ratio that whooped it every time. That pain, son.

Edit: and if anything argues against matchmaking more than strikes, I'd love to hear it. Everyone jumps out of strikes these days to the point where I'm used to running them all 2 man.

 

[GankzyMcfly]

now imagine vanilla wow and needing to convince 39 friends to buy the game

actually dont, irl friends in raids usually lead to disappointment and suffering

Your right...friends are useless, go with rando's with high GS

 

[Evolved1]

Destiny is the most disgusting non-freemium game I have ever experienced.

The final straw, and I gave this game hundreds of hours of my time, was when they removed vanilla content and replaced it with expansion stuff. I had talked a friend into trying the game... we spent a few days playing getting them up to speed. And then realized they'd gated the (already annoyingly grindy, sparse) previously available content behind another paywall...

That was the final straw. Other games have done it, but when you look at everything else Destiny does, it was just too much.

Fuck them forever.

 

[pj]

Matchmaking I can live with on the Weeklies to some degree (the kind that hasn't spent too much time burning me). PVP is rough but you make the best of it.

There's no way on earth that matchmaking would work for raids. Language issues, gear needs, people's real actual life schedules...nope. I got a bunch of people on my list that I met through lfg, and it's worked well so far. I'm happy with it that way.

Only beef I've got is with RNGesus every now and again. 8 consecutive nightfalls while my people got exotics, and me with the k/d ratio that whooped it every time. That pain, son.

???? @ bold

Why couldn't a system like destiny LFG be added in game? I don't think anyone is seriously proposing a straight matchmaking system where you press A on vault of glass and 20 seconds later you're loading the level.

Edit: and if anything argues against matchmaking more than strikes, I'd love to hear it. Everyone jumps out of strikes these days to the point where I'm used to running them all 2 man

For me, I'll sometimes back out of certain strikes because I've played them 3 times in a row or I just don't like them. If the game had more than a handful of strikes, or had a voting/veto system, I think quitting would be much less of a problem there.

 

[Zakalwe]

Matchmaking for raids is a terrible idea.

What they needed from the start is an in game party/flag system. Flag yourself for a raid, advertise on a menu/board that your group is looking for players.

That little bit of extra effort would have gone a long way to remove the click on a whim raiders who didn't want to fully commit and who would sour the experience for everyone else.

Really simple, amazed it wasn't included.

 

[NervousXtian]

Stopped playing for a week, had no urge to return.

Fun shooting shit, but everything else was a mess.

 

[CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls]

As has been explained already, MM for NF and Raids would be completely pointless. No teamwork, no familiarity, and likely zero communication. The Weekly struggles to be fun anymore because you either have an idler or people who Leeroy Jenkins everything and expect you to revive them constantly.

At one time, I wanted MM for raids because I had no one to play with. Just visiting the Destiny OT alone has boosted me to 70 or so friends, many of whom I play with multiple times. It takes a few minutes of your time to organize. Lodging it as a complaint on Bungie's part is a little severe, I think. It would defeat the purpose of accomplishment and make what is already a grind to begin with, that much more worse with incompetent randoms.

 

[Abusive_Red]

If raids had matchmaking everyone would be posting about how much raiding sucks in Destiny.

 

[CraigerGamer]

They have convoluted, badly written dialogue to explain the rest of the game, so they could surely have Dinklebot or somebody give players a basic idea what they must do during the raid phases. It'll take the fun of discovering what you have to do to advance on your own for some people, but that's only a very few users and it just concerns their very first playthrough.

This is a bad idea. Raids are meant to be discovered not be hand held content. I think you are far misjudging how many people enjoy figuring out mysteries of each raid. Having a tour guide other than Hawkian would ruin the experience.

 

[Skele7on]

Cryptarch is the only anti consumer part of destiny.

 

[Iorv3th]

This is a bad idea. Raids are meant to be discovered not be hand held content. I think you are far misjudging how many people enjoy figuring out mysteries of each raid. Having a tour guide other than Hawkian would ruin the experience.

And if you do not like to figure it out wait 24 hours or so and watch a youtube video. People figured Crota out very early and had different guides on how to do it.

 

[Trickster]

When I bought the game, I didn't know anyone. Nobody I knew owned a PS4. One friend at work bought a PS4 and has a completely different schedule.

Then I remembered I'm on this site. So I kind of wandered into the Destiny OT, said hi. I noticed Hawkian runs a noobie raid. I signed up. Had a great time. Invited those people to my friends list. They accepted. Now nearly my entire friends list is made up of DGAF people.

Came home from work on a Friday night. Saw people posting things like:

"Need 1 for Nightfall. At the boss. Get in here."

"Doing weekly. Anyone want coins?"

Then I did a 28 weekly with my then 25 Warlock - was trying to get enough coins for something from Xur. I got to Phogoth somehow - and put up a post on GAF "Hey guys, I'm a 25 and am at the boss. If you wouldn't mind helping a noob I would totally appreciate it. Hope you get great loot for helping me!" 2 guys popped on in about 30 seconds.

ALL DAY, EVERY DAY there are people all over the world posting in the DGAF OT.

"Hey need one for NM VoG"

"Need 4 for HM Atheon"

"Hey I have the Gorgon checkpoint on Hard - anyone need it?"

"I'm at the boss on the NF, get in here if you want easy loot!"


I go to Reddit. They have "Mentor Monday." Wow that's nice. Kind of quaint though, considering every day on DGAF someone says "Would you mind taking a noob in the Vault or through CE?" To which nearly everyone replies a version of "Be glad to!"

Hawkian hosts the noob raids every Thursday, alternating between VoG and CE.
He hosts a Crota-Sword school every Sunday night.

With the amazing community here, if you can't make friends or find someone to play with in Destiny, and you're already on GAF, friend, you're DOING IT WRONG.

tl;dr - You don't need matchmaking. You have DGAF.

You're basically pointing out exactly why Destiny is a consumer unfriendly product. It's a product which requires you to use something other than the product whenever you want to play it with other people.

The fact that third party sites such as Neogaf, Reddit and the lfg sites are needed for picking up the slack for Bungie is pathetic on Bungie's part.

 

[Omegasquash]

???? @ bold

Why couldn't a system like destiny LFG be added in game? I don't think anyone is seriously proposing a straight matchmaking system where you press A on vault of glass and 20 seconds later you're loading the level.

That's what I'm picking up, since that's what matchmaking is outside of lobby. Also, adding it in game is basically the same as matchmaking. Last thing I want is a random popping in on the Deathsinger that's level 30, been run through by a buddy once on normal and doesn't have the gear/experience that I need so that I can wrap this shit up in 20 (or less) because my daughter is going to wake up from her nap. I build a list of people that I trust for the most part that can all cooperate together to get the raid done.

I've played too many games where you LFG forever and a day in game. Not interested in doing it again. Not saying I wouldn't be willing to try it on a Nightfall, but no way on a raid. Uh-uh,

For me, I'll sometimes back out of certain strikes because I've played them 3 times in a row or I just don't like them. If the game had more than a handful of strikes, or had a voting/veto system, I think quitting would be much less of a problem there.

Or a system where it didn't put you in the same strike back to back. I feel you, but that system is not there. And what you're saying here literally strengthens the argument against random ass matchmaking. You don't need to be a jerk to be tired of playing Valus back to back to back, but the fact that matchmaking put you into a situation like that isn't cool either.

 

[CouchMaster]

This thread is quite literally

Actual players VS People that sold game after a couple months.

I would love to see someone proposing matchmaking in raids to show me if he has completed hard mode Crota or even hard VoG at least once, then I'll take him seriously. Till then I'd say you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[LollipoPReapeR]

???? @ bold

Why couldn't a system like destiny LFG be added in game? I don't think anyone is seriously proposing a straight matchmaking system where you press A on vault of glass and 20 seconds later you're loading the level.



For me, I'll sometimes back out of certain strikes because I've played them 3 times in a row or I just don't like them. If the game had more than a handful of strikes, or had a voting/veto system, I think quitting would be much less of a problem there.

Problem is , they are doing just that. I would have nothing against ingame LFG as it not only would help raids but help form groups for other content, be it PVP or PvE.

 

[pj]

At one time, I wanted MM for raids because I had no one to play with. Just visiting the Destiny OT alone has boosted me to 70 or so friends, many of whom I play with multiple times. It takes a few minutes of your time to organize. Lodging it as a complaint on Bungie's part is a little severe, I think. It would defeat the purpose of accomplishment and make what is already a grind to begin with, that much more worse with incompetent randoms.

How many millions of people don't know about destinylfg or the gaf destiny OT and never attempt the raid or NFs?

Bungie is 100% responsible for putting tools in the game to allow players to access all of the content. There are innumerable ways to do it, any of which would be better than the current nothing.

It's really not that hard. If I can find a group on destinylfg, why can't I do it in the game????????? Why do I have to have my laptop out while I'm trying to play the some destiny?

 

[stb]

Good to see DGAF representing here, but also a generally intelligent and thoughtful discourse instead of poo flinging. Apologies for the length:

From the perspective of someone that's been playing since release day and has hundreds of hours logged:

- raiding is a time commitment. I sympathize with the people who literally are unable to dedicate the time for a raid, but that's not the game's fault. The unfortunate reality of the situation is that the way raids are built and the way your life works aren't compatible. This isn't a matchmaking issue. It sucks that those people won't get to experience the best content in the game (Vault of Glass), but the frustration of dealing with a matchmade fireteam would really, really diminish the experience. Vault, in particular, appears to be genuinely developed to be experienced in one sitting, rather than in encounter-sized pieces.

- matchmaking (the servers assigning you people to play with) can't work for raiding, and would be generally disappointing in nightfall. Raids require communication 99% of the time. Even playing with an over-leveled and extremely well equipped fireteam of 6 that I've been raiding with for over a month still needs to talk while doing various parts of even the first raid (Vault of Glass). The hard mode Crota's End raid just wouldn't be possible for all but an extreme minority who would actually use matchmaking. Matchmaking is already rife with issues in Crucible (where it's absolutely a necessary evil) and the weekly heroic; it'd be maddening in raids and nightfall.

- no one is arguing against in-game LFG (looking for group) functionality. In fact, various posters in the Destiny OTs have posited rather well thought out ways to implement this in-game and have been advocating it for months.

- Bungie's inability or unwillingness to implement an in game LFG system is disappointing, frustrates even the most dedicated players, and artificially limits the audience of the game. They would be extremely remiss to not do something to mitigate this issue.

- "consumer-unfriendly" is one of those terms that really gets under my skin. In my experience, it's generally employed by people who dislike one or two aspects of a game to rally the pitchfork-and-torch crowd under a single banner. The game has issues, but "consumer unfriendly" is hyperbolic. The game functions as described in marketing materials/on the box/etc.

- - The game engine runs well. Servers are generally available and responsive.

- - Not liking "DLC" using content that was on the disc (or even in the game since Alpha/Beta) is on the bubble, but the "It's on the disc, so I shouldn't be charged for it" is far too cut and dried to be a defensible argument. The teams that make these games are immense. Sometimes one team finishes their part before another team finishes theirs. This appears to be the case with Destiny. There is a LOT of geometry, texturing, and lighting on the disc (and again, in the alpha and beta) that you can glitch into without the DLC. But there are no standard enemies, bosses, audio cues, objects to interact with, etc. Unless you want to go all conspiracy theory and say Bungie spent the extra time to go back and REMOVE those elements just in case someone found a way into the parts of the map, so they could have a defense ready for the "but it's on the disc" crowd, the only sane conclusion is that the mapping team was done early, so it made sense to commit it to the build(s).

- - "Always online" is important to the game, like it or lump it. In addition to the intrinsic benefits to Bungie/Activision (e.g. copy protection, usage metrics, etc.), the vision for the game was an mmo-esque experience where you see other players running around doing their own things while you do yours. It's also absolutely required to avoid item duping and other cheat mechanisms. Were Bungie to allow offline play, they'd be absolutely obligated to restrict "offline" characters from participating in online activities for these reasons. I'm of the opinion that it simply wasn't worth the effort to have an "offline only" version of the game (frankly, the "story mode" is the worst part of the game, anyway, and I feel like they know that). Beyond that, it's going to be less and less likely to happen. People who can afford a PS4/Xbone to play Destiny 2, for example, but DON'T have readily accessible wifi are going to be more and more of an edge case. Given the issues that persist with the game, I'm outright glad they didn't dedicate resources to an "offline mode" and spread themselves even thinner.

 

[Hawkian]

???? @ bold

Why couldn't a system like destiny LFG be added in game?

That isn't matchmaking, shouldn't be referred to as matchmaking, and is indeed what should be implemented.

 

[mzupeman]

I've been playing this "shell" for nearly 1000 hours. Destiny is one of the best shooters out right now. And I actually wish there was more DLC - not quite the platform you claim it is.

You can enjoy the gameplay all you want. I won't contest that. The mechanics feel fantastic.

However the game comes with a campaign which adds virtually nothing to the universe of Destiny, or even bothers to fill you in on... well, anything. You're traversing the same handful of worlds at your disposal over and over and over and over again. The DLC has been a major disappointment as it's just more of the same.

To each their own, but your enjoyment doesn't impact the idea that this was a blatant platform to sell you DLC.

 

[Abusive_Red]

How many millions of people don't know about destinylfg or the gaf destiny OT and never attempt the raid or NFs?

Bungie is 100% responsible for putting tools in the game to allow players to access all of the content. There are innumerable ways to do it, any of which would be better than the current nothing.

It's really not that hard. If I can find a group on destinylfg, why can't I do it in the game????????? Why do I have to have my laptop out while I'm trying to play the some destiny?

I made at least 25 friends just from hanging out in the tower and getting invited to go do shit. There's your tool.

Much better than implementing a system that will makes raids a horrible experience for 99% of the players who would attempt it with randoms thinking its like a ROC strike..

 

[E92 M3]

You can enjoy the gameplay all you want. I won't contest that. The mechanics feel fantastic.

However the game comes with a campaign which adds virtually nothing to the universe of Destiny, or even bothers to fill you in on... well, anything. You're traversing the same handful of worlds at your disposal over and over and over and over again. The DLC has been a major disappointment as it's just more of the same.

To each their own, but your enjoyment doesn't impact the idea that this was a blatant platform to sell you DLC.

Destiny isn't about a story though. Where is my DLC?! Everyone wants DLC but recently Bungie delayed it till May supposedly. Where do you come up with the fact that it's a platform for DLC?

 

[LifEndz]

You are talking about two different things, matchmaking and a lobby system.

If you were to just get matchmade into a random group in L4D, theres absolutely no guarantee the other three people (or bots) have any idea what they are doing, which becomes increasingly frustrating as the encounters demand increased coordination and teamwork on higher difficulties. Same idea.That little bit of team building makes all the difference.

A lobby, or whatever equivalent, would be awesome. No argument. But how do you design a raid for people without mics? How do you ensure that someone who signs up for the raid carries their weight and is commited to seeing it through to the end? One button that just drops you into a group is bad design.

Where did I say anything about guarantees of any kind or designing a raid for people without mics?

I'm saying lobbying people up and allowing them to vote to kick someone pre-game would alleviate a lot of the probs or concerns associated with being able to one button my way to a raid or nf. I'm not talking about ensuring someone carries weight. There's no way to do that now...or ever.

 

[mzupeman]

Destiny isn't about a story though. Where is my DLC?! Everyone wants DLC but recently Bungie delayed it till May supposedly. Where do you come up with the fact that it's a platform for DLC?

By playing the game and realizing it was designed for DLC expansion? That, coupled with the idea that, in my opinion, Destiny, as is, is completely hollow.

 

[Steroyd]

How many millions of people don't know about destinylfg or the gaf destiny OT and never attempt the raid or NFs?

Bungie is 100% responsible for putting tools in the game to allow players to access all of the content. There are innumerable ways to do it, any of which would be better than the current nothing.

It's really not that hard. If I can find a group on destinylfg, why can't I do it in the game????????? Why do I have to have my laptop out while I'm trying to play the some destiny?

I'll be shocked if anyone disagrees with that, clicking launch Vault of Glass and watch the empty slots fill up is not the way to go though.

You can enjoy the gameplay all you want. I won't contest that. The mechanics feel fantastic.

However the game comes with a campaign which adds virtually nothing to the universe of Destiny, or even bothers to fill you in on... well, anything. You're traversing the same handful of worlds at your disposal over and over and over and over again. The DLC has been a major disappointment as it's just more of the same.

To each their own, but your enjoyment doesn't impact the idea that this was a blatant platform to sell you DLC.

Nah, there are a ton of games that put the cart before the horse like Evolve, Destiny would be in the middle of the list of DLC practices, locking out people for a whole week is disgraceful, but is almost par for the course unfortunately.

 

[pj]

That's what I'm picking up, since that's what matchmaking is outside of lobby. Also, adding it in game is basically the same as matchmaking. Last thing I want is a random popping in on the Deathsinger that's level 30, been run through by a buddy once on normal and doesn't have the gear/experience that I need so that I can wrap this shit up in 20 (or less) because my daughter is going to wake up from her nap. I build a list of people that I trust for the most part that can all cooperate together to get the raid done.

I've played too many games where you LFG forever and a day in game. Not interested in doing it again. Not saying I wouldn't be willing to try it on a Nightfall, but no way on a raid. Uh-uh,



Or a system where it didn't put you in the same strike back to back. I feel you, but that system is not there. And what you're saying here literally strengthens the argument against random ass matchmaking. You don't need to be a jerk to be tired of playing Valus back to back to back, but the fact that matchmaking put you into a situation like that isn't cool either.

#1 is you don't gotta use it. This system wouldn't be for the people who've played destiny 400 hours. It would be for the 40-100 hour people who just want to play the raid a few times. The raids are 10x more fun than the strikes yet I've done the strikes 50x more than either raid. A lobby system would be perfectly fine for normal raids and NF. When I use LFG I always talk to the people in the lobby before starting to get a feel if it's gonna work or not. With an in game lobby system you could just boot non-talkers or 9 year olds using their brother's lvl 32 character.

I don't see how what I said strengthens the argument against random matchmaking. The randomness is referring to the players, not what you end up playing. The frustration from the current matchmaking is always with the game, not the people I'm matched up with. I rarely have issues with the players.

I should probably use the past tense because I stopped playing a couple months ago. After looking at my stats and realizing I've done the same half dozen strikes 166 times, I knew should take a break. The HUD being burned into my plasma tv (which is still faintly visible) didn't help either.

Problem is , they are doing just that. I would have nothing against ingame LFG as it not only would help raids but help form groups for other content, be it PVP or PvE.

Some people who haven't thought much about it have probably said that, but nobody who's thunk on it more than 90 seconds considers that a real option. Obviously bungie would never do something like that so it's not even worth acknowledging really.

 

[Nabbis]

I would love to see someone proposing matchmaking in raids to show me if he has completed hard mode Crota or even hard VoG at least once, then I'll take him seriously. Till then I'd say you have no idea what you're talking about.

If people want to torture themselves with matchmade partners then let them. You act like Destiny raids are something hard. They are not.

 

[E92 M3]

By playing the game and realizing it was designed for DLC expansion? That, coupled with the idea that, in my opinion, Destiny, as is, is completely hollow.

It's a very fun social experience and it's has resoundingly turned Tuesdays into a major event lol. Yes, the game isn't for everyone, but doesn't mean it's a hollow experience. I've been playing it for since day 1 and still get on every day. Also, don't say it has psychological hooks in me. I prefer playing when not seeking any type of weapon.

 

[mzupeman]

Nah, there are a ton of games that put the cart before the horse like Evolve, Destiny would be in the middle of the list of DLC practices, locking out people for a whole week is disgraceful, but is almost par for the course unfortunately.

I hear you on that, Steroyd.

That said, I'm not of the opinion that the 'that's just the way things are' factor actually means something. That may be the way it is, but that doesn't mean it's okay. Destiny could have, and should have been so much more than it was.

 

[stb]

By playing the game and realizing it was designed for DLC expansion? That, coupled with the idea that, in my opinion, Destiny, as is, is completely hollow.

Destiny has been billed, from the initial reveal, as a platform for expansion. You not liking that is perfectly fine. And the initial "campaign" IS hollow. It's openly ridiculed and complained about in the Destiny OT, and always has been.

That said, the multiplayer components, while repetitive, have an impressive gameplay loop of mechanics, rewards, and, frankly, torture, that is extremely addicting. Couple that with playing with good groups, and it's not surprising people have played it as much as they have. I really do feel like people are missing out by not playing this game the way DGAF does.

The same criticism and praise can (and has been) leveraged against most relatively recent online-focused games (BF3, BF4, all the CoDs, etc.). This model isn't going anywhere. And for my money, I hope it doesn't.

 

[pj]

I made at least 25 friends just from hanging out in the tower and getting invited to go do shit. There's your tool.

Much better than implementing a system that will makes raids a horrible experience for 99% of the players who would attempt it with randoms thinking its like a ROC strike..

How is that better? Do you even know what you're being invited to play before you accept? I've been invited a few times but all I see is "XxX_B0NERZ42_XxX has invited you to play Destiny"

That's like random matchmaking except you don't even get to pick what mode you do

 

[Deku Tree]

If Destiny is such a "consumer-unfriendly product" then why does it sell so well and why do people keep playing it for so many hours? You would think people would be able to figure out how horrible it is and it would end up in the bargain dust bin...

 

[mzupeman]

Destiny has been billed, from the initial reveal, as a platform for expansion. You not liking that is perfectly fine. And the initial "campaign" IS hollow. It's openly ridiculed and complained about in the Destiny OT, and always has been.

That said, the multiplayer components, while repetitive, have an impressive gameplay loop of mechanics, rewards, and, frankly, torture, that is extremely addicting. Couple that with playing with good groups, and it's not surprising people have played it as much as they have. I really do feel like people are missing out by not playing this game the way DGAF does.

The same criticism and praise can (and has been) leveraged against most relatively recent online-focused games (BF3, BF4, all the CoDs, etc.). This model isn't going anywhere. And for my money, I hope it doesn't.

I think something that's designed for expansion is one thing. I think to provide so little at launch though is highly insulting, especially to the people who have supported Bungie for years.

And yes, I know this practice isn't going away. Ever. People love spending $60 for a game and then spending more and more just to make it feel complete. Sales on digital content are booming.

There are games that do DLC right. Destiny, in my humble opinion, is not one of them. I had a lot of fun with Destiny until I hit a 'wall'... the game just stopped being fun. For the people who can play this for 1,000 hours and still enjoy it, I'm happy for them... but sad for where that's bound to bring the industry.

But as you already noted, we're pretty much already there, aren't we?

I think I'll go plug in my Gamecube.