1.) You may have missed the beginning of the conversation from yesterday but everything I've been talking about is from the "initial perspective." All encounters become trivial once the strats are optimized and we're optimally geared. I don't care about challenge, just talking about the thought put into the design itself.
Supplicants are not a pure trash wave, they interact with mechanics in ways that were initially compelling. Sadly they weren't scaled well (spawn timers and locations, pathing movement and speed) so people figured out how to trivialize them by activating both plates. They're easily the weakest part of an otherwise brilliant encounter but at least the design is there. Golgi add waves have no design at all: thralls + cursed from bottom cave --> Adepts and acolytes from side doors and back caves then bottom cave. They're funneled into narrow corridors in a cramped boss room, that's it.
2.) I was just clarifying. There's more happening in the summoned fanatic waves than a pure ammo dump so it wasn't clear. "Running out of ammo when most enemies have dropped ammo in a green death pool that requires cleansing in their spawn location except they blow up if you get close" is interesting.
Once again it wasn't scaled well (or made lactose intolerant) so the interesting part falls away. I'm not arguing these are great designs, in fact they're some of the weakest parts of VoG. But some good flickers exist and they have enough freedom that players can make them more interesting. I realize I'm being nitpicky, but small details go a long way for me when comparing VoG and KF.
1) I'm not talking about the mechanic being trivialized, it's whether or not the challenge is actually interesting as simply being a challenge doesn't mean it's inherently interesting. I mean, every bit of content in the game can become trivial given the right gear and strat but even trivialized content can still be interesting and thus more enjoyable. In that way, the Supplicants never felt interesting to me. The only element they add is a DPS/Accuracy check for the non-teleport team. In comparison the teleport team is clearing trash and killing confluxes while continuously moving forward with the relic holder cleansing. There's an element of DPS check to that as well but there's still more coordination, timing, and teamwork involved there.
2) It's not even a case of having most enemies having dropped the ammo in the green pools but a case of most enemies throughout the entire Raid not dropping ammo. When you consider that being the case, being ammo starved during fanatics is more of a side effect of two separate mechanisms. And perhaps the fanatic waves were designed with this in mind but it's still not particularly interesting to me as a player as it's not something that I actually have to overcome but something I have to be lucky enough to not have happen. I mean you can perform every aspect of the section of the raid optimally but still end up in a bad situation because the game just didn't drop enough ammo for you.
I haven't run KF yet, so I can't make a comparison one way or the other there, I just find it hard to describe those specific sections of VoG as interesting.
There aren't any sources of guaranteed legendary 310 gear.
While true, this seems more of a problem with the random Light Levels of Raid drops. RNG for drops and then RNG for Light Level on top of that is the issue there.
Perhaps its just the MMO player in me whos used to PvP gear being a lower item level than PvE gear, but thats really how it should be.
PvP gear should be balanced around PvP with PvP perks to enhance the players capability versus players, while PvE gear should be aimed towards PvE and perk that benefit versus AI.
Both can be used in both situations, but to be effective end game PvE you should actually be required to do PvE activities, not fully gear up doing PvP.
Same goes for PvP.
Wanna be part of the top 1% in PvP? Better play some damn PvP and get that gear aimed towards that cause raid gear aint got shit on PvP geared players.
Anything over 300 from Oryx already gives advantage in both IB and ToO though. And from what I've seen of Destiny over the past year, the vast majority of the perks aren't geared towards one mode or the other and that's preferable imo. It allows PvP players to advance doing their own thing and then they can raid in a PUG.
