DF: Nioh 2 DLSS Analysis | DLSS 2.0 has better image quality than native
Kuranghi
Member
I don't understand the point of this statement "In 9/10 cases DLSS offers much better AA than native", because there is no AA applied to the native image, so of course the pixels will be raw.
I just want to see a comparison where good/decent TAA is applied to a pre-sharpened native image and then compared to the DLSS output, that would be a fairer comparison imo.
I just want to see a comparison where good/decent TAA is applied to a pre-sharpened native image and then compared to the DLSS output, that would be a fairer comparison imo.
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
I think no need for that when DLSS perform like this. Well I know that get these cards are pretty tough...
DrSerigala
Member
What game that has good TAA and also has DLSS?
They mentioned control at the beginning and DLSS perform better than native image with TAA on Control
Elog
Member
Interesting - even though the caveats that Kuranghi highlights are totally true.
What I would love to see is a proper comparison between DLSS2.0 vs non-AI based state-of-the-art upscaling techniques. Hopefully something like that can be shown at some point - that is the real test imo.
What I would love to see is a proper comparison between DLSS2.0 vs non-AI based state-of-the-art upscaling techniques. Hopefully something like that can be shown at some point - that is the real test imo.
Kuranghi
Member
None really, I want to see DLSS in UE4/5, thats where you can do beautiful TAA + pre-sharpening.
I think the TAA in Control is a bit shit, it has so much ghosting and many other TAA implements handle transparencies like hair and grass much better than that. Like RE Engine for example.
JimboJones
Member
This video compares UE4 TAA and DLSS 2. 0
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
The thing is.. DLSS 2.0 mostly uses non-AI based state of the art upscaling techniques...it's basically TAA up until the last step, and then instead of using basic algorithms to attempt to remove imperfections, they use an AI based approach.
That's why they were able to ditch their per-game training technology and use a generic model now, as all they are doing with AI is looking for common errors in reconstruction.
This technique appears superior to TAA on it's own, by anyone's account. But we'll see I guess.
ethomaz
Banned
DLSS perform better than native image... it is the whole purpose of the tech.
It offer worst image quality.
ZywyPL
Banned
The problem with post-processing AA techniques is that they blur the image, which is how they're handling smoothing out the jaggies, some blur the image more, some blur it less, but they all do to some extent nevertheless, which goes against the whole idea behind using native resolution to begin with. And the idea behind DLSS is to give you that native res image clarity, but without jaggies, and on top of that at greater framerate.
VictorVectors
Member
OP's title was pretty great bait to be honest. You right. I look forward to the thread from anyone in a fighting mood today.
Armorian
Banned
Have you watched the video? DLSS wins in many games with TAA but in Nioh with some (shit) post process AA it completely destroys native image. DLSS only really loses when comparing RT reflections in games that use them as they are rendered in lower resolution, bot of course this doesn't apply to Nioh 2.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Interesting video; they show that DLSS 2.0 has some defects that make it have worse textures, and weird random shimmering in DOF.
That mipmap bias adjustment using the nVidia tools is interesting too.
But DLSS is about performance with some tradeoffs.
That mipmap bias adjustment using the nVidia tools is interesting too.
But DLSS is about performance with some tradeoffs.
Last edited:
VictorVectors
Member
The only thing on screen that looks better to me in native is the textures. DLSS reconstruction seems like a phenomenal AA replacement. Outside of those low resolution textures at medium distances.Have you watched the video? DLSS wins in many games with TAA but in Nioh with some (shit) post process AA it completely destroys native image. DLSS only really loses when comparing RT reflections in games that use them as they are rendered in lower resolution, bot of course this doesn't apply to Nioh 2.
Elog
Member
Then it will be a very interesting comparison between whatever it is AMD is developing, the Sony upscaling solutions and DLSS2.0 in the end - interesting times!
Haggard
Banned
You`re one that would scream "the sky is green" on a warm cloudless summer day.
Great Hair
Banned
post-over sharpening = more pleasing
Alexa Buggagga - 2021
Zoom Expert at DF
Looks bad, too aggressive with DLSS (right one).
versus native
Last edited:
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
The ground looks better on the right to me; opinions, how do they work?
post-over sharpening = more pleasing
Alexa Buggagga - 2021
Zoom Expert at DF
MadchesterManc
Member
From what I remember when playing the game around launch, Nioh 2 didn't have a graphics option for anti aliasing (a mod dropped later adding FXAA & SMAA).
I would expect DLSS to obviously offer better image quality than that, so long as you don't mind losing a touch of that native clarity for excellent AA coverage
I would expect DLSS to obviously offer better image quality than that, so long as you don't mind losing a touch of that native clarity for excellent AA coverage
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
The entire point of the video was because Nioh 2 did not have much if any native AA.From what I remember when playing the game around launch, Nioh 2 didn't have a graphics option for anti aliasing (a mod dropped later adding FXAA & SMAA).
I would expect DLSS to obviously offer better image quality than that, so long as you don't mind losing a touch of that native clarity for excellent AA coverage
The conclusion is: DLSS 2.0 improves performance while providing great AA, but has some annoying defects that native doesn't have.
Last edited:
Great Hair
Banned
No, you are wrong (over sharpen = bad). Why so aggressive Alex.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
It's not over sharpened..
ethomaz
Banned
When a technical site try to deceive people with the Earth is plane.
This video/article just tell you DF lacks technical guys.
Last edited:
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
You are just missing the entire point of the video; which was to compare DLSS to a game w/ very little to no AA.
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Not sure why would he modified that bias, but oh well...
post-over sharpening = more pleasing
Alexa Buggagga - 2021
Zoom Expert at DF
JimboJones
Member
Just ignore him, intentionally missing the point of these videos to push some bizarre agenda is their m.o.
ethomaz
Banned
Alex already push the agenda by himself I don't need to push anything lol
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
And what narrative is this video pushing?
This video might be pointing out the obvious, but I don't see any lies or narrative.
Last edited:
Silent Viper
Banned
We need this on Consoles for every game.
Tickle My Tendies
Member
DLSS 2.0 stays winning.
Whenever this, or a future incarnation (DLSS 3.0, 4.0, etc) or the AMD equivalent ever eventually make it onto consoles, we all profit.
No disrespect to checkerboarding, but DLSS is The Way.
Whenever this, or a future incarnation (DLSS 3.0, 4.0, etc) or the AMD equivalent ever eventually make it onto consoles, we all profit.
No disrespect to checkerboarding, but DLSS is The Way.
Last edited:
Armorian
Banned
He probably loves AMD and think they can't do anything wrong so if "evil" Nvidia is better at something he attacks. DLSS 2.0 so far is quite amazing and shits all over VRS for example (I stll have hope for Mesh shading) in terms of giving performance, at the same time it also can IMPROVE IQ in games which is great (and suprising) or offer just slight reduction of it (mostly in games with RT, reflection res is lower).
Last edited:
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Download the latest nvidia build of unreal engine and do the test yourself?
Kuranghi
Member
Can you use DLSS with UE4 now? Can I just load a game into UE4 and mess about with it? I'm not familiar with game engines in that regard.
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Yes the plugin is free for 4.26 and up.
300mb.
I think he uses a slightly too aggressive negative mip bias offset (-0.5) which is why it's slightly oversharp.
nVidia recommends log2(1440/2160) = -0.58496250074 offset for DLSS 4K Quality, so it's more like ~1525p internally.
nVidia recommends log2(1440/2160) = -0.58496250074 offset for DLSS 4K Quality, so it's more like ~1525p internally.
llien
Banned
Running games at lower resolution IMPROVES PERFORMANCE, news at 11...
Jesus Christ...
Guess what, 1440p is 2.2 times less pixels than 4k. That is roughly the perf bump you should get from getting lowerscale, now TAA derivative applied, eats sizable chunk of that perfr gain.
DLSS 2 exposes pros and cons of every TAA derivative:
Pros:
Improves lines
Cons:
Adds blur, wipes out details
Particularly bad with small, quickly moving subjects.
Best presented on screens lacking anything that could expose cons.
Last edited:
Md Ray
Member
They're calling it FX Super Resolution, IIRC. Hopefully they introduce it tomorrow at the 6700 XT event. DLSS/FxSR are the killer features of next-gen GPUs and key to GPU longevity.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
I mean.. yes.. the point is the reconstruction bringing it as close as possible to native.. and in some cases, improving the IQ... in other cases having defects.
Why are you so angry about this?
And yet.. the image it produces is 4k.. jesus dude lol
Last edited:
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Wasting time makes me happy.
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
They not going to, because AMD never had comparable software product and also compute on their cards is shared, so either you are computating graphics or computating some ML model. It could work to a certain degree yes and that's going to be a good thing, however I would not be getting hopes up. There is a reason why Nvidia dominates not only gaming but every GPU compute solution and it's not that they are evil.
And without AA it looks like a jagged mess. And with MSAA you get shader aliasing.
So unless you are going to render at 8k and downsample, there is no "solution". But if DLSS can give you better AA than the native TAA solution the games ships with, plus similar image quality, *and* much better performance, that seems like a pretty nice deal.
Last edited:
llien
Banned
Coming from a person who does understand that:
Not sure what to tell you, dude.
As close as... possible, seriously?
I don't mind giving upscaling tech (if it makes people happier, we can call it "supersampling" or 'hypersampling", or even "bestevarevarsampling") what it deserves. I do mind claiming it does, what it obviously does not.
When I said what I repeated above about blur and loss of detail, one of the club green folks (to his honor) made "can you see which one is DLSS upscale" challenge.
You remember how that went, right?
Shockingly, it was the one that lost detail and added blur that was upscaled by TAA derivative.
Last edited:
llien
Banned
Md Ray
Member
Win-win in my book.
Last edited:
The comparison is with the native TAA solution which in itself introduces significant blur, not with a supersampled image.