DF x IGN closest GPU to PS5 pro is an RTX 4070
- Thread starter Bernoulli
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hinch7
Member
FSR is terrible unless you hit a certain threshhold when upscaling to 4K. I'd rather use a sharpener filter (NIS/RIS) under 4K. And even then, in motion it just looks bad.
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kevboard
Member
1440p to 4K is imo that threshold.
and even then, honestly, I take native 1440p with TAA still
Zathalus
Member
Yeah, DF pointed out that PSSR will almost certainly improve over time and that compared to most PC usage the viewing distance on TV is much further away. They also stressed several times that these are simply patches to existing games.Zathalus Thank you for the summary. PSSR sounds promising so far. It's alright if they don't quite match DLSS as long as they're significantly better than FSR. The difference at regular viewing distances shouldn't be dramatic anyway.
I didn’t mention above but during the questions section Alex did mention that with Sony first party and the ICE team they can tailor future first party games around PSSR, enhancing its advantages and reducing the impact of any disadvantages that PSSR might have.
kevboard
Member
that is also why TSR looks often significantly better than FSR, even tho both reconstruction methods have the same performance penalty these days.
TSR is tailored for Unreal Engine, FSR is a general use reconstruction tech
Well this all sounds a bit shit, doesn't it? Sorry but for £700 it's got to provide good IQ on basically every performance mode out there, otherwise I'm just sticking with the regular system.
1188p in GT7? Wtf is THAT about? What's that, practically a 70% reduction in resolution (with 45% more power!) just to add RT reflections??!
That's ridiculous, sorry.
1188p in GT7? Wtf is THAT about? What's that, practically a 70% reduction in resolution (with 45% more power!) just to add RT reflections??!
That's ridiculous, sorry.
ChiefDada
Member
I'll be diplomatic here and say Alex mistakenly labeled as 4070 when what he really tested was 4070 Super. In his prior tweets he said he was currently comparing to 4070 Super:
This is a 4070 at 4K DLSS Quality max settings dipping below 60fps:
Another example:
Also note how he says the shadows look "different". The PC GPU shadows have aliasing while the PS5 Pro doesn't; makes sense as Cerny mentioned there have been improvements to lighting and VFX.
Zathalus
Member
I don’t think it matters if it’s a 4070 or 4070 Super, they were not doing performance comparisons. As for additional upgrades beyond resolution, they don’t appear to have found any. It’s basically 4K CB on the Pro.
Edit: Shadows look different due to CB being used.
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PSSR look like a real deal but need more time to get as good as DLSS. this sound logical, but did they mention how far behind?
Internal resolution look a bit disappointing for some games especially GT. Like DF stated, they just slapes PSSR on top and call it a day?
I guess we need to see 2 months from now on, how are they going to improve. Don't know if they are using PSSR 9.4 here or 9.0 because MLID leaked they have image quality issue with 9.0 and they just updated to 9.4 recently. My guess is the older version Because they just updated in September.
Internal resolution look a bit disappointing for some games especially GT. Like DF stated, they just slapes PSSR on top and call it a day?
I guess we need to see 2 months from now on, how are they going to improve. Don't know if they are using PSSR 9.4 here or 9.0 because MLID leaked they have image quality issue with 9.0 and they just updated to 9.4 recently. My guess is the older version Because they just updated in September.
Did they compare to the base PS5 version at all? I mean generally not just this game.
ChiefDada
Member
If we're strictly comparing PS5 Pro 60fps image quality to native 4k quality, then I agree that's no problem. But saying a 4070 is able to do native 4k60 with DLAA and max settings in Horizon Forbidden West (it can't), particularly when they also take a stand in the same video that a 4070 is faster, is problematic imo. Also when
But I don't have many other issues with the rest of the video analysis.
Zathalus
Member
DLAA DRS, not native 4K.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
They ain't saying that. For one, I didn't see them mention any average fps. For two, it's using DLAA with DRS with a 4K target, so dropping way below 1440p to maintain 60 (assuming it even gets there).
Zathalus
Member
Yes, TLOU 2 was compared to the PS5 30fps quality setting. On the Pro it is 1440p upscaled via PSSR to 4K at 60fps. Very comparable image quality.
Forbidden West was compared as well, 1800p CB vs 4K CB, sharper and cleaner on the Pro. Basically the 40fps mode but at 60fps.
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DeadOblivion78
Banned
Honestly the comparisons right now are kinda useless because we have no idea what version of PSSR that each game shown is running on and if there will be more updates on launch.
Interesting. I guess for forbidden West, the Dev did not finish cooking the PSSR version, and they just sent in the 4k CB version? This is the only logical explanation.
My guess here, everything coming hot, we just need to be patiece.
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Zathalus
Member
DF speculated that as well. Developers are strapped for time so why check that everything is perfect with PSSR when the game was designed around the CB solution they have? Just up the resolve from 1800p to 4K and that’s pretty decent uplift for a Pro patch.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
There's no way a ps5 pro is at 872p there's some mistake there surely.
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Kaiserstark
Member
Yeah obviously we need more footages and some patch can still be work in progress and we also know that Cerny and his team are still working on PSSR to make it better but these early resutls from DF are not amazing.
If for a game like GT 7 for just adding RT reflections who are still quarter res and nothing else has changed you need to drop the internal resolution to 1188p, that's clearly not great.
When you look at the resolutions of performance modes for Alan Wake 2 and AC Shadow, it's also not really promising of course we need to know the settings they are using and maybe with PSSR, the IQ is good enough.
Even the results for Ratchet can be a bit disappointing.
This also needs to be put into perspective because we don't know how long the studios have been working on these patches for PRO and what stage they are at so we can't draw definitive conclusions but at least the PSSR is already at a promising stage and should continue to improve.
These results also make me wonder about the real gain that RDNA 4 brings for Raytracing but it's still too early.
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ChiefDada
Member
In the video, they're both running at 60fps. Why do you think it's dropping way below 1440p in the cutscene? And if the idea was to compare to native 4k as they discussed, why not use a 4090 or any card that can run native 4k60? I'm just confused what exactly they're comparing here. PS5 Pro vs native 4k image? Or PS5 Pro AA solution vs DLAA? The latter would be weird since Cerny already insinuated PSSR isn't the right fit for Horizon/Decima engine.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
These videos sound far too hot. It needs some work because that does not sound impressive. What's with the res drop on GT? There's no way you want it looking less sharp on your pro as a ps5.
I believe it, read Zathlus posts. My guess is the Devs need time and effort dedicate to the ps5 pro. They can't just raised the resolution and slap PSSR and it will work.
Also, for this presentation, it seems they don't have the time because for most games they just implemented PSSR on the base ps5 resolution.
I think it will definitely improve come launch.
Zathalus
Member
The reflections in GT7 reflect basically everything and have a really high roughness cutoff. Even with the reflections being quarter res scaling that becomes really taxing on the GPU to use as you scale up resolution. Native 4K with those reflections may just be way too heavy. PSSR is not a free lunch either as the 2ms cost demonstrates.
Also this is all stuff that is still 2 months out, could still improve. Or not, I have no idea.
Ah, if you haven't mention it I guess they did not take a look at FF7. How disappointing. John posted the night and day difference but they did not talk about it?
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Thanks for the updates, when do we commoners get the video?
These preliminary tests are as I expected, And that is why I was saying there is a reason everything shown was from older games that just got patches. For all we know they spent all of a week on said patches.
What we really need to see is it on a new title, one where a PS5pro mode was really worked on.
Zathalus
Member
Could be from the DoF effect that is present on PC and disabled on the Pro. You can see everything is blurred on the PC background. I can probably test it tomorrow myself, but DoF and upscalers can cause issues depending on how everything is implemented.
Thoughts on the ghosting of balloons and general image degradation that occurs on PC in this scene that DF didn't comment on?
Zathalus
Member
No but it might be causing issues with DLSS. Lots of games have that issue. Or it might be just DLSS ghosting. I will check.
Crispy Gamer
Member
Assassin's Creed Shadows is the only thing announced currently but it should be a good test
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Is that image degradation or depth of field on the PC side? In the foreground, they look comparable, but the PC is less aliased. The wires with the little flags are less jagged. The background is evidently blurrier, but I doubt it's because the image is worse. Looks like no DOF vs DOF or something of the sort.
Thoughts on the ghosting of balloons and general image degradation that occurs on PC in this scene that DF didn't comment on?
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Wait.
Zathalus
, Did DF mention PSSR from the presentation is similar to DLSS performance like i seen on twitter?
I thought performance and quality depends on internal resolutions? So if PSSR is similar to performance that quite drastic difference. So PSSR 1440p internal yielding the same result as DLSS 1080p internal?
Zathalus
, Did DF mention PSSR from the presentation is similar to DLSS performance like i seen on twitter?I thought performance and quality depends on internal resolutions? So if PSSR is similar to performance that quite drastic difference. So PSSR 1440p internal yielding the same result as DLSS 1080p internal?
This isn't how that works. GPU determines framerate ("performance" ) just as much as CPU (probably even more for a lot of games). Keeping the GPU the same as base PS5 and ramping up CPU would likely just mean your CPU idles while it waits for the GPU to finish with the frame.
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
So, for the blurry background. It's DOF, no doubt.
Just look at the objects in the distance.
Just look at the objects in the distance.
Enjoy your 120fps games at 360p.
ChiefDada
Member
So, for the blurry background. It's DOF, no doubt.
Just look at the objects in the distance.
Enjoy your 120fps games at 360p.
Interesting. Any ghosting on the balloons, particularly with DLSS off?
You don't have ghosting (same settings?) on the moving balloons though . There is DoF but there is ghosting on the ballons in the DLAA comparison image posted earlier likely caused by the upscale (maybe framegen related, or is it just the DLAA causing it?)So, for the blurry background. It's DOF, no doubt.
Just look at the objects in the distance.
Enjoy your 120fps games at 360p.
John from DF was literally asking for this when he did the GT7 tech review
"All these modes are native 4K; John would love to see a performance ray-tracing mode for gameplay with a lower resolution."
I wonder if he's actually going to be happy with this mode or he's going to complain about it regardless.
So, I have been thinking. I don't think sending the uncompress presentation to DF is a good idea after all unless sony don't expect thing to change much come launch day so they preemptively soften the blow but i don't think this is the case because manything could improve by then.
Sure, the PSSR is promising but ray tracing seem to be half baked and most internal resolution seems to be the same as the base ps5.
I don't think it's a good PR overall after all cerny talking. They could have leave this alone and just give DF and most medias the machine a couple weeks before launch. I suspected there will be more thrashing when this video release to the public because of the low resolution and ray tracing.
Imagine the headline with still running 800p the same internal resolution as base ps5 and it cost 700 bucks. Yikes.
Sure, the PSSR is promising but ray tracing seem to be half baked and most internal resolution seems to be the same as the base ps5.
I don't think it's a good PR overall after all cerny talking. They could have leave this alone and just give DF and most medias the machine a couple weeks before launch. I suspected there will be more thrashing when this video release to the public because of the low resolution and ray tracing.
Imagine the headline with still running 800p the same internal resolution as base ps5 and it cost 700 bucks. Yikes.
Bojji
Member
It is.
This would be revealed sooner or later. What is in that DF video pretty much confirms all my expectations...
Mr.Phoenix
Member
The headline doesn't matter, And wouldn't even be that unless someone is pushing an agenda.
All that matters is how the final image looks. If the game looks obviously and significantly better than the original while running at that low internal rez but using PSSR, then that ends up being more of a compliment to it than anything else.
If it looks no different, however, then that's a problem.
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Sure this is will reveal sooner or later, but many things coming in hot and could change in 2 months.
Horizon did not even implement PSSR, and many games have the same PS5 internal resolution below 1080p where up scaling does not look good even with DLSS .
With what I stated above, I don't see any reason why they need to get this out to DF at the moment unless they intend to ship Horizon without PSSR and keep the sub 1080p internal res with PSSR which a step down from DLSS.
rnlval
Member
PS fanboys right now:
So what happened to this?
AMD Confirms AI-Based FSR4 Will Boost Image Quality And Power Efficiency
The head of the Radeon group says that his team has been plugging away at AI-based FSR for 9-12 months.
The headline does matter. Most gamers on gaming forum know a sub 1080p up scaling does not look good even using DLSS especially on a gigantic 4k TV.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
There is ghosting using DLAA, but it's subtle. I didn't spot it at first, but when I leaned closer and zoomed in, I could definitely see the trails. Not sure if you can see it there...probably not.
Edit: Yeah, never mind lmao. You can't see it. I'd have to post a 4K video, but I don't have a YouTube channel. Those little gifs won't do. Also worth noting is that there is no ghosting when using TAA. I would add that the ghosting is more apparent with DLAA than with DLSS Quality, but DLAA still has much better image quality overall.
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Mr.Phoenix
Member
All it needs to do is look better than whatever mode it's replacing.
And there is nothing sony can do about what or how devs choose to do these things.
If a dev decides to leave everything as is and just swap out FSR2 for PSSR, and end up with an image that looks better/more stable but still underwhelming compared to what sony first-party devs are doing... there is nothing sony can do about that.
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Vick
Member
I expect they obviously mention the extremely noticeable improvements over Fidelity in the final output, surely?
Including examples of less aliasing/artifacts on top of this kind of improved final looking assets?
I mean.. there's just no fucking way in hell they don't, right?
It is. Imagine bragging over your 8K GT7 at CNET when the game runs at lower res than base PS5 just to add half-assed RT reflections.. lol
Ignoring DF, knowing full well the bitter manchilds they are even aside of their fundings, is about to bite Sony in the ass.
I wouldn't count too much on that, even been just updated in September it would be moronic to use old footage. A week to cut and edit the footage for the reveal sounds relatively feasible.
