Diablo 3 Player Count Drops Big Time on Xfire, Consumers Are Fed Up

In the case of Act 2 Inferno, youll definitely need to farm a lot of Act 1 before you can move past it if you are trying to play it as a 'no contact with the outside world' game. D3 is flat out not built around that the way the previous games were.[/QUOTE]

I have been farming Butcher runs and other places for weeks (50ish hours). I have yet to see any gear worth a damn, not just for myself, but to sell on the AH.

Cipherr said:
I mean you dont need the most amazing gear to beat Inferno anymore either.
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This is just not true, at least for myself. I'm a WD and my DPS is too low for bosses with the enrage timer, and if I switch to better DPS gear I die very quickly.
 
Riggs said:
No my MF was 200% + at one time, yes I can farm goblins all day and chests but to me that is boring. I like playing the acts over and over, finding my own loot. I can't roll around with MF gear in Inferno obviously. I was for a time equipping all MF gear right before a boss dies, and sometimes that proved useful. Sometimes it did not, just depends.

Obviously I am not the only one seeing poor drops over long lengths of time man, read the 4 OT's. We are not bitching just for the sake of bitching. And if your running around with 190 MF is that with MF gear or main gear?
Click to expand...

MF gear, I switch 3 pieces before dropping the last monster. And I'm not farming gobs or chests (chests don't even get mf boost anymore). I'm farming Act 1 with a nice route. Loads of elites, a couple of events and 2 bosses.
 
Ultimoo said:
I hate this argument everyone brings up. People somehow think that because the AH exists, droprates must be shit to compensate. Where did Blizzard even state that? Blizzard explicitly stated that they had created drop rates ignoring the AH, because the AH would be impossible to test on a wide scale basis in beta. If you played without the AH, how would you determine that your droprate is shit? You only think it's shit because you go onto the AH and you see all this shit better than yours.

I'm sorry that your luck is bad, but if everyone had good luck, then all items would be worthless, and no such economy would exist. That is the nature of the game, sometimes you get hosed, and sometimes you get rich.
Click to expand...

What people don't seem to be saying is what the AH does allow you to do is blow all your gold on gear and then if your smart about what you buy you won't be seeing any upgrades for awhile. It's not that Blizz ruined drop rates because of the AH (without any hard facts we can say the drop rates in D2 were abysmal) but it does provide a faster way of gear, to a point, making looting kind of moot.
 
Ultimoo said:
I hate this argument everyone brings up. People somehow think that because the AH exists, droprates must be shit to compensate. Where did Blizzard even state that? Blizzard explicitly stated that they had created drop rates ignoring the AH, because the AH would be impossible to test on a wide scale basis in beta. If you played without the AH, how would you determine that your droprate is shit? You only think it's shit because you go onto the AH and you see all this shit better than yours.

I'm sorry that your luck is bad, but if everyone had good luck, then all items would be worthless, and no such economy would exist. That is the nature of the game, sometimes you get hosed, and sometimes you get rich.
Click to expand...


The thing I hate the most is the misguided hate about the AH.

People start with "You cant beat this game without the AH"

Then you mention trade channel and forum trading like D2 and that its absolutely possible to beat the game without the AH.

Then its "You cant beat this game if you dont trade items with anyone ever in any fashion."

I'm pretty sure even thats not true, some streamer is going to do just that probably in the next 3 months. The thing is, if your issue is that it doesn't play as well as a single player game as D2 and D1 did, then say that. But stop the bullshit about not being able to beat the game without the AH, because you absolutely can.
 
Ultimoo said:
I hate this argument everyone brings up. People somehow think that because the AH exists, droprates must be shit to compensate. Where did Blizzard even state that? Blizzard explicitly stated that they had created drop rates ignoring the AH, because the AH would be impossible to test on a wide scale basis in beta. If you played without the AH, how would you determine that your droprate is shit? You only think it's shit because you go onto the AH and you see all this shit better than yours.

I'm sorry that your luck is bad, but if everyone had good luck, then all items would be worthless, and no such economy would exist. That is the nature of the game, sometimes you get hosed, and sometimes you get rich.



Can I please get a developer or a blue post telling me that the game was balanced around the AH?

anyone? If you tell me that I can't believe what a developer says, then why am I supposed to believe the consumer?
Click to expand...

Read the post below ...

Iadien said:
I have been farming Butcher runs and other places for weeks (50ish hours). I have yet to see any gear worth a damn, not just for myself, but to sell on the AH.
Click to expand...

Tacitus_ said:
MF gear, I switch 3 pieces before dropping the last monster. And I'm not farming gobs or chests (chests don't even get mf boost anymore). I'm farming Act 1 with a nice route. Loads of elites, a couple of events and 2 bosses.
Click to expand...

Ok that makes sense. And Act 1 is one section of the game, I should be more specific. I ll go through Act 2 over and over, and just find nothing half the time. I guess a lot of it was butcher runs at first before the 1.03 patch. Only went through Act 2 legitimately once before the nerf. Your right a lot of it is luck though, but there seems to be something wrong if people are going 2 weeks w/o one upgrade.

EDIT

And when I say going 2 weeks without one upgrade, that is pre 1.03. I have barely touched this game since the patch, so maybe I need to give it another shot since the tables were increased.
 
Also, it would be nice to realize that beating Inferno difficulty actually needs dedication.
OCD complex and Achievement wanting aside, you just NEED to learn your class, deal with deaths, constantly upgrade your gear and do not stop trying to improve even if you had bad luck in a run. Or 10. Or 50. That is how RNG works.

I would love to see people treat rare Pokémon breed catches like they treat an Inferno clear.
Or finding a Baron horse in WoW pre-nerf (when it was around 0,000001% or something crazy like that). When you were not able to solo it. I mean, what the fuck.
 
And Cipherr you did need the AH to beat Inferno 100% before 1.03. Just depends on what time the player saying that attempted Inferno completion. After nerf obviously it's a lot easier, before AH was pretty much necessary unless you had no job and could afford to literally farm 10 + hrs a day. And even then you need a lot of luck and MF. The pros and cons of using the AH were pretty clear before 1.03. It all comes back to what people enjoy, and again I enjoy getting loot myself and not trading. This game just is not like D2, and I can live w/ that.
 
Riggs said:
And Cipherr you did need the AH to beat Inferno 100% before 1.03. Just depends on what time the player saying that attempted Inferno completion. After nerf obviously it's a lot easier, before AH was pretty much necessary unless you had no job and could afford to literally farm 10 + hrs a day. And even then you need a lot of luck and MF. The pros and cons of using the AH were pretty clear before 1.03. It all comes back to what people enjoy, and again I enjoy getting loot myself and not trading. This game just is not like D2, and I can live w/ that.
Click to expand...

Thats pre nerf and I agree. I dont see the point in talking about a game noone can play anymore though. They are supposed to improve the game if its broken, so they did. The drop in subscribers in the OP continues even after the nerf.
 
They need to freaking make "rare" drops a more common sight from regular mobs since the item stat distribution is randomly ridic, that can fix inferno.

We need to see items drop!
 
The_Darkest_Red said:
The game pre-level 60 is a lot more fun than the end-game, I think. On Normal, Nightmare, and Hell you can still get some good drops for yourself and it's fun sharing loot with the people you're playing with. There is a much more genuine sense of progression. Once you hit 60 the entire game just becomes farm for gold in the same areas over and over to buy better gear on the AH.

To be clear, I still think hunting elites with friends can be fun, I just don't find it to be very addictive or compelling compared to what came before it.
Click to expand...

Speaking of fun with friends, the increasing difficulty level (avoiding the AH mind you) really makes for a fun experience when you come across a pack of elites that will just tear you to pieces if you just try to tank and spank them. So when you do get that one drop that replaces what you've been running with for the last 4 hours its all the more satisfying.

Maybe my opinion will change at 60, but by then I'll have had so much fun with the game that I'm not sure an increased treadmill at 60 would destroy my overall enjoyment.
 
They drops suck. It becomes more an exercise in frustration than anything. NOT FUN. Until they fix the itemization I do not see myself playing it much. Some of the prefixs that champions get are fucking impossible (RNG can screw you big time here--reloading a map should not be something you have to do to enjoy the game). There should be impossiblites for certain prefixes to appear together.
 
V_Arnold said:
Also, it would be nice to realize that beating Inferno difficulty actually needs dedication.
OCD complex and Achievement wanting aside, you just NEED to learn your class, deal with deaths, constantly upgrade your gear and do not stop trying to improve even if you had bad luck in a run. Or 10. Or 50. That is how RNG works.

I would love to see people treat rare Pokémon breed catches like they treat an Inferno clear.
Or finding a Baron horse in WoW pre-nerf (when it was around 0,000001% or something crazy like that). When you were not able to solo it. I mean, what the fuck.
Click to expand...

But the loot is the carrot on the stick. And since Diablo loot is terrible and not rewarding at all, there is no point in clearing inferno beyond ACT 2.
 
Cipherr said:
The thing I hate the most is the misguided hate about the AH.

People start with "You cant beat this game without the AH"

Then you mention trade channel and forum trading like D2 and that its absolutely possible to beat the game without the AH.

Then its "You cant beat this game if you dont trade items with anyone ever in any fashion."

I'm pretty sure even thats not true, some streamer is going to do just that probably in the next 3 months. The thing is, if your issue is that it doesn't play as well as a single player game as D2 and D1 did, then say that. But stop the bullshit about not being able to beat the game without the AH, because you absolutely can.
Click to expand...

The very existence of the AH kills the 'carrot' for a lot of people. I no longer give a shit if an item drops off an enemy. There is a 99.9% chance I'll be selling it and using that money to buy one of the million 'rare' items listed on the AH. I never played D2 like that. I never used trade channels or forums. In D3 I use the AH all the time because it literally takes seconds to upgrade your character (sometimes by a huge amount) with a few clicks of a button.

Not using the AH is not a smart or viable option. It's like going through a WoW dungeon naked... it might be fun to say you did it but that's not how it's ment to be played.
 
Also, loot is directly tied to the difficulty of the end-game content. If Inferno was a cake-walk, would most of you care that you got zero upgrades if you could easily clear all four acts? It's only a problem because the content is challenging. Inferno is supposed to be end game that takes dedication and memorization.

I'm eager to see how people treat Torchlight 2. If the end-game turns out to be a cake-walk, I'm sure I'll see less complaining about loot because it doesn't matter what gear you'd be wearing, if the content is easy, you won't need it. I'm also not sure how they'll handle trading either. If there is no global AH, then there will also be much less complaining because people won't look on the AH and see their gear is actually shit. Or maybe they'll be less complaining because the loot system is better, who knows.

I just know that a lot of complaints come from people who never have played a loot whore game, or have come from games like WoW where gear is practically falling off trees for you, ala fixed stats on items that are guaranteed to drops off bosses on a small loot table, or off vendors that will sell you the best gear in the game.
 
Again the reality of the situation is that people love to see the mighty fall. It's always being blown out of proportions when reality is that it's most likely a bit of both worlds and not really that interesting or unexpected. Just like Mass Effect 3 isn't some atrocious game or Bioware lost their touch due to armbar by EA. - Come on.
Nostalgia is fucking with you. You are remembering those games being better than they honestly where. Not in all cases, but it's dumb to see them being put on the pedestal like this. you played the last game 10 years ago. you where younger and more susceptible to the stupid bullshit.

These stats - like any statistic... man.. people will use it to spin whatever arguments they want. isn't it common for participation rates to drop after a month or two? people play hardcore for a while, and then they start logging in less frequent!?
 
Riggs said:
And when I say going 2 weeks without one upgrade, that is pre 1.03. I have barely touched this game since the patch, so maybe I need to give it another shot since the tables were increased.
Click to expand...

You should. I'm getting 10+ i61-i63 rares each run. Most of them don't have good rolls, but I found earlier today an xbow with 1k dps and nice dex. Loads of jewelry too.

Slayer-33 said:
They need to freaking make "rare" drops a more common sight from regular mobs since the item stat distribution is randomly ridic, that can fix inferno.

We need to see items drop!
Click to expand...

Guaranteed rares from elite packs w/ 5stack NV were patched in last week. Feels awesome.
 
Vigilant Walrus said:
Again the reality of the situation is that people love to see the mighty fall. It's always being blown out of proportions when reality is that it's most likely a bit of both worlds and not really that interesting or unexpected. Just like Mass Effect 3 isn't some atrocious game or Bioware lost their touch due to armbar by EA. - Come on.
Nostalgia is fucking with you. You are remembering those games being better than they honestly where. Not in all cases, but it's dumb to see them being put on the pedestal like this. you played the last game 10 years ago. you where younger and more susceptible to the stupid bullshit.

These stats - like any statistic... man.. people will use it to spin whatever arguments they want. isn't it common for participation rates to drop after a month or two? people play hardcore for a while, and then they start logging in less frequent!?
Click to expand...

Ummm, many people still played Diablo 2 up until the release of 3.
 
I was kind of disappointed with Diablo 3 and wondered if this game just rather average or if I had giant nostalgia goggles for Diablo 2 going in to it, which might have clouded my judgement.

But after installing 2 and playing through three acts, I just realized that 3 was just incredibly bland in so many ways. 2 has a lot more personality and style, and is simply more fun and engaging.
 
Riggs said:
And another post that fully explains my problem w/ this game. There is no addictiveness to D3. And you really need that for a loot game. Farming for gold / other items to sell, so I can buy the items I need from the AH is just not fun for me. I want to get shit myself.
Click to expand...

Especially when it's item staples like Stormshield or set pieces. At least you felt you could farm that shit yourself in D2 but in D3 I have like 60,000 kills and no set pieces.
 
Ultimoo said:
Also, loot is directly tied to the difficulty of the end-game content. If Inferno was a cake-walk, would most of you care that you got zero upgrades if you could easily clear all four acts? It's only a problem because the content is challenging. Inferno is supposed to be end game that takes dedication and memorization.
Click to expand...
I'm fine with Inferno being a mode that is a little crazy since it's supposed to be the part of the game that keeps players coming back but that doesn't mean what we ended up with is compelling or fun from a gameplay perspective. Just think about this for a second. You are justifying the end-game of playing the same content over and over and over and over and over and over and over... and over again just by saying it takes "dedication and memorization." To me it's more like --- it takes addiction. I guess endless farming might be fun for some people, and I have no problem with that, but to me it just feels like pressing the lever on a slot machine. You might get a satisfying feeling from the process once in awhile but I hardly think that's enough reason to classify it as "fun." And isn't that the point of playing a game in the first place?

All of that said, I don't think any of this is a reason for me to hate Diablo 3 or for me to say it's a terrible game or what have you. No one is forcing me to beat the game in Inferno and the trials and tribulations of finishing the game on Inferno are not taking away from my enjoyment with the game in prior difficulty levels. It's only there for the people who want it, and I understand that. All I'm saying is that it isn't achieving its goal of keeping me hooked. The curtains have been raised and I'm now staring directly at a bare-bones slot machine. I don't mind stopping by every once in awhile to pull the lever but if Blizzard is trying to keep me coming back consistently and for extended periods of time then I honestly think they've failed.
 
rCIZZLE said:
Especially when it's item staples like Stormshield or set pieces. At least you felt you could farm that shit yourself in D2 but in D3 I have like 60,000 kills and no set pieces.
Click to expand...

And I have 100000+ kills and 5 set pieces and 20 legendaries.

What are we arguing about?

For every player like you, there is a player like me.
 
Not surprised the interest level in Diablo 3 if falling. Blizzard seems to think it's a good idea to patch the fun out of the game for high level characters.
 
Those line graphs are a bit fucked up, the scaling is different on each one. You get the point of the graphs though, they go up and down... but it would be a better representation to use the same scaling on each graph.
 
Is the title supposed to be implying that it's because of the auction house or DRM or something? Kind of a ridiculous assertion, especially considering the "data" we're working with here.

Game has problems for sure, don't get me wrong. Primarily, the end game is kind of boring and the economy is fubar. But there are a lot of reasons why people are leaving that probably aren't solely "hey that graph is pointing downwards and it's totally because of this thing I really don't like about it."

Either way, I feel like even if the game was super-awesome in every way, there would still be a pretty huge drop-off in comparison to other games that want you to stick around and play them for months on end.
 
Iadien said:
I only played D2 single player, and I was able to finish the game just fine. I didn't have to have the most amazing gear to advance in the game. I don't know how long I have been stuck in act 2 inferno, but I bet I've been stuck here more than twice as long as it took me to complete normal through act 1 inferno combined.
Click to expand...


That´s the thing.
In Diablo 2 you "only" had hell mode. And yes you can easily complete it with your own drops. But for an uber tristram run with only your drops it´s a completly other story. Would take ages to farm up for it.
In Diablo 3 you also can easily complete Hell mode with your own drops. But Inferno is meant to be harder, meant to take longer to complete. And a big part of the players just compare it to hell d2 and say it´s a bullshit mode.
I don´t say i´m totally fine with d3 right now, but some of the comparings with d2 just sound really off to me.
 
Vigilant Walrus said:
Again the reality of the situation is that people love to see the mighty fall. It's always being blown out of proportions when reality is that it's most likely a bit of both worlds and not really that interesting or unexpected. Just like Mass Effect 3 isn't some atrocious game or Bioware lost their touch due to armbar by EA. - Come on.
Nostalgia is fucking with you. You are remembering those games being better than they honestly where. Not in all cases, but it's dumb to see them being put on the pedestal like this. you played the last game 10 years ago. you where younger and more susceptible to the stupid bullshit.

These stats - like any statistic... man.. people will use it to spin whatever arguments they want. isn't it common for participation rates to drop after a month or two? people play hardcore for a while, and then they start logging in less frequent!?
Click to expand...

Well I agree a lot of people like to see the mighty fall. Personally I want to just enjoy this game because I know it could be a lot better. But I know what you are saying.

Tacitus_ said:
You should. I'm getting 10+ i61-i63 rares each run. Most of them don't have good rolls, but I found earlier today an xbow with 1k dps and nice dex. Loads of jewelry too.



Guaranteed rares from elite packs w/ 5stack NV were patched in last week. Feels awesome.
Click to expand...

Nice I am definitely going to play more, just needed a break. Awesome drop btw gratz.
 
Ultimoo said:
And I have 100000+ kills and 5 set pieces and 20 legendaries.

What are we arguing about?

For every player like you, there is a player like me.
Click to expand...

We're arguing that if you want the D2 version of a set pieces you could reasonably expect to farm it yourself. I've gotten 8 legendaries, only 2 of which had any value (max 800k), even with 247 base MF gear for the last ~30k kills. How long do you think it would take a solo player to complete a set in D3? A few thousand hours? You have to admit that does take a little bit out of the game...

From the way people are talking, I think we're both on the above average for legendary drops, lol. There aren't many people as many as you.
 
lol @ people saying 1.03 made Inferno too easy.

Get the fuck outta here, just all talk. Show us your toon's stats and gear. Inferno is no way in hell "easy" unless you got super duper lucky and sold an expensive gear and bought yourself nice gears from the AH.
 
This was all predictable as early as the beta and I stated as much back then. Diablo was never just about the loot, it was about discovering the game and using the loot as a tool to broaden your horizons in the game. But they dumbed everything down so much in Diablo 3 that there was no discovery, no mystery left. Why in the world would you stick around a game where all you have left to do is to increase some arbitrary stat? The answer was as obvious then as it is now - you wouldn't.
 
V_Arnold said:
S Yes, that includes those who got to Act3/Act4 through the public quest bug in Inferno and then kept chest farming there without a shed of remorse.
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It amuses me immensely that people think that this was a bad thing to do or that people should feel "remorse" for doing it.
 
There is more truth to this poll than some people want to believe.

Decrease $$ dropped by half. Increase repair.

RMAH is what killed it. Loved the story though.
 
luxarific said:
It amuses me immensely that people think that this was a bad thing to do or that people should feel "remorse" for doing it.
Click to expand...

Cheaters usually don't feel remorse for cheating ;) There's even some posters who belive Zoltan Kulle/Bellial were examples of playing smart way...
 
michaelius said:
Cheaters usually don't feel remorse for cheating ;) There's even some posters who belive Zoltan Kulle/Bellial were examples of playing smart way...
Click to expand...

How was it cheating? I wouldn't have minded if they continued to filter down gear and get rich off it. The thing that messed up the economy was botters.

What we consider amazing gear now was only going for about 2-3 mill in week 2. Now that's jumped to the tens of millions
 
Ultimoo said:
Also, loot is directly tied to the difficulty of the end-game content. If Inferno was a cake-walk, would most of you care that you got zero upgrades if you could easily clear all four acts? It's only a problem because the content is challenging. Inferno is supposed to be end game that takes dedication and memorization.

I'm eager to see how people treat Torchlight 2. If the end-game turns out to be a cake-walk, I'm sure I'll see less complaining about loot because it doesn't matter what gear you'd be wearing, if the content is easy, you won't need it. I'm also not sure how they'll handle trading either. If there is no global AH, then there will also be much less complaining because people won't look on the AH and see their gear is actually shit. Or maybe they'll be less complaining because the loot system is better, who knows.
Click to expand...

End game in Torchlight 2 is going to be "fun"

adamperin: Just to elaborate, yes your character is stored locally. Yes there will most likely be cheaters because of this. The benefit is you can play the same character online and offline without having to retreave the character save, as well as a bunch of other benefits. We hope that by giving the user tools they will be able to decide to avoid playing with cheaters. If you block another player in game they won't be able to join any game you are in and it blocks their whole account not just the character you initially blocked. Also Greg has been adding some useful tools to tell if a player is possibly a cheater. They are based around comparing your install data to see if the character you are playing with has reasonable save data such as, the correct stats and skill points for a levels, a reasonable amount of time played for their level, as well as other attributes. This information will be used to tell you if the game thinks they are a possible cheater and then you can choose to play with them or simply block them.
Click to expand...

as long as your fun includes running in duped max stats gear against other equally equipped players ;)
 
michaelius said:
Cheaters usually don't feel remorse for cheating ;) There's even some posters who belive Zoltan Kulle/Bellial were examples of playing smart way...
Click to expand...

Grinding bosses for quick leveling has been part of this series for over a decade. Maybe you're fine playing through the same story 10+ times but the rest of us just want to get back to 60 on alts. Perhaps if they gave some reason to play through legit like making items potentially be worth something during the campaign grind then there wouldn't be as many people sticking with bosses.



michaelius said:
End game in Torchlight 2 is going to be "fun"



as long as your fun includes running in duped max stats gear against other equally equipped players ;)
Click to expand...

Did you even read the quote you posted?
 
For me personally, I'm just playing a day or two a week whenever Agent Dormer wants to hop on together. We're in Act 3 of Nightmare.. game is pretty friggin brutal. Arcane + any other enchant makes me want to kill someone. >:(

It does feel like the drops have been killed in comparison to D2.. I know I used to be able to get pretty good loot on my own, but I've had very, very few drops that were good enough to use. Most everything has been purchased off the AH (for gold, mind you). It's odd that you'll often get item drops that are up to 10-15 levels below you.. so pointless.
 
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