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Diablo III: Reaper of Souls |OT2| Enchantress: Look! More hidden loot!

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DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
Does no one play new heroes on this game anymore? I re-installed Diablo 3 for the first time since beating it when it first came out with a level 35 Demon Hunter. So it's been 2 years. I've been playing a new wizard the last couple of nights.

Every time I play the server ends up creating a game for me and no one ever joins and I see maybe 1 message every few hours in the general chat. Is the population of people playing that low, or am I being locked out of playing with other people because I haven't bought Reaper of Souls?

Most of population is at level 60 or 70

Leveling doesn't take a lot of time so you may only come across a few available people on your way to the level cap.

Most people in reaper of souls level in adventure mode as opposed to story mode because there's higher enemy density (quicker leveling) and rift fragments for their level 70 characters.
 

garath

Member
Wow, it's like I didn't even post...

Sorry to interrupt your members only club, I just thought someone in here would be able to point out if I was doing something wrong. I'll leave you to it.

Relax. You posted 1 min before we got the only news we've seen from Blizzard in like 2 weeks.

I can't imagine there are many genuine low level characters in the game. Even with an open public game (which unless I'm mistaken, you actually have to enable in the options) you probably wouldn't get many people joining due to how quickly you can level now a days.

But you should climb pretty quick and there's still a good community out there. D3 GAF is a little slow as we've been waiting for the 2.1 content patch but it'll pick back up again. It's a great game overall.
 

scy

Member
I just realized that Legendary Gems means my innate socket RoRGs are potentially a lot better now.

#winning
 

Krassus

Member
With the right gear and cycling you can shoot 30+ Cluster Arrows. I saw a video of a dude doing it non-stop for a couple minutes, can't seem to remember what was called though.

That would be impossible without the shrine used in that video. Even with 30% of 40 hatred on Cinder (only item reducing CA cost in game) you might get an extra 2 off depending on passives and paragon but then you need to instantly regen 100+ hatred.
 

garath

Member
I'm excited. My DH is my "main" alt and I actually like the sounds of the punishment change.

Really? It's pretty much just a straight up nerf. There's little justifying that change other than to nerf the hatred cycling with discipline to get more CAs out.
 

Dahbomb

Member
30% is too low of a value for STI. Should've been 50%. Monks will now gear like every other class because it's not worth it to go for STI as you will be sacrificing one passive for marginally more toughness.

The DH Prep change is pretty shit to be honest. But I guess that class is also getting the Dex Armor boost so we will see how that pans out.


I like most of the other change. As far as the Healing changes go... all I see happening with that is...

"We didn't think the Healing values were meaty enough....

SO WE DOUBLED THEM!"


Making LOH/Life Regen secondary stats would make them too good.
 

Jubs

Member
I wonder, does Harmony work if you roll All Resist? It sounds like from the wording it only applies if you a roll secondary resist.

People who spent all that time farming good RoRGs/SoJs am cry

My Int RoRG rolled w/ a socket, so I'm bueno.jpg at the prospect of Leg gems.
 

scy

Member
Really? It's pretty much just a straight up nerf. There's little justifying that change other than to nerf the hatred cycling with discipline to get more CAs out.

I'm wondering what defensive Discipline skill they're expecting to be used now in conjunction with Preparation. Like, skill slots are at a premium here.

30% is too low of a value for STI. Should've been 50%. Monks will now gear like every other class because it's not worth it to go for STI as you will be sacrificing one passive for marginally more toughness.

1 DEX = 1 Armor baseline now. STI and Awareness (incidentally, :lol) are both being changed entirely.

Edit: I also just now realized you probably meant Harmony's All Resist share.
 

Dahbomb

Member
I misread the new change to STI. Yeah it's completely different now.

This post makes it more clear:

Just some additional clarification, since I see some confusion on the new passive:

Harmony will apply 30% of a single resist to all other resistances aside from the element it normally provides (meaning it doesn't double-dip on itself). Here's a math-y example in hopes this provides a clearer picture:

I acquire a piece of gear with 100 Fire Resist. From that gear, I'm gaining 100 Fire Resist and 30 Resistance to all others.

Hope that makes more sense. :)


So let's say right now I have 1500 Lightning resistance on my gear and nothing else.

Old STI: 1500 Lightning resistance gets converted to 1500 All Resistance.

New STI (Harmony) : 1500 Lightning resistance gets converted to 1500 Lightning resistance + 500 All resistance (except Lightning resistance)


I still think Monks aren't going to use this new passive.
 

Celegus

Member
Sounds like good changes all around! I don't play either dex class, so all that is pretty meaningless to me. Legendary gems sound neat, but I really just want to know how they're changing the Firebird set. The 4 set bonus on Tal's and Vyr's are both incredible, so it would stand to reason that the 6 bonus on Firebird's should be even better... right? Right?!
 

garath

Member
I'm wondering what defensive Discipline skill they're expecting to be used now in conjunction with Preparation. Like, skill slots are at a premium here.

I have no idea. Skill slots aside, the only ones that are any decent are vault (which costs next to nothing in discipline anyways) and smoke screen. And part of the challenge of using prep/punishment was maintaining that balance of instant nuke with the defensive vault/smoke screen if you didn't erase the elite pack with your full cycle.

If anything, now they're really shoehorning DH's into cindercoat for the reduced resource cost if they want to use the most powerful spender. Prep/punishment at least let you get away without having the perfect gear.

What are DHs going to do? Go back to Elemental arrow? Ball lightning? Anything that's not CA that I've tried is notably weaker (excepting the full Maurader build of course).

They say they like the WD level of power and want to bring the other classes up. DH has to be one of the closest but they just hit the most popular build without giving anything in return.
 

Insaniac

Member
I'm hoping to see some changes to Wizard Skills, and maybe Wizard Set bonuses (particularly Tal's and Firebirds) I feel like they're one of the weakest classes right now when it comes to T5-/T6
 

Celegus

Member
I'm hoping to see some changes to Wizard Skills, and maybe Wizard Set bonuses (particularly Tal's and Firebirds) I feel like they're one of the weakest classes right now when it comes to T5-/T6

It'd be nice to have an option for a left click skill that isn't magic missile. I have a really nice Firebird source but it just can't compete with mirrorball.
 

Dahbomb

Member
I already told people like a month ago that with the coming of 2.1... there will be lots of nerfs coming. Now that things are getting "competitive", expect more razor sharp balance changes to be coming (ie. nerfs).


What are DHs going to do?
DHs are going to be fine. CA build is still going to work... now you probably just want more CDR on gear though. CA build will carry you to T4 maybe even T5 and after that you would need the Marauder set. The new armor change means DHs will be able to survive high level Torments really well.

And we still haven't seen what they are doing to the other useless DH set. It might get super buffed and allow for an additional high level DH build.



Also... anyone know what Blizzard is going to do with Mantra of Evasion and any other skills that use Dodge?
 

scy

Member
So let's say right now I have 1500 Lightning resistance on my gear and nothing else.

To be fair, the most likely case would be to gear as close to ~300 Resist base per type. So you'd have ~750 AR with baseline ~11,000-ish Armor. So it comes down to how important is saving a few primary slots on gear worth, really.

Edit: Actually, the most likely "best case" of this would be to gear for 5 of the elements and use one of the Absorb Amulets instead which drops you a bit of AR but gives one extra resist type to float / makes the math not clean. Then again, this is already ignoring the 200 single-resist options too.
 

Laconic

Banned
People who spent all that time farming good RoRGs/SoJs am cry

Getting a 50% CHD RRoG is still godlike. All this means it you might be inclined to roll a socket instead of CC.

EDIT:

They NERFED DHs? Really? And just when I was going to build one...

I already told people like a month ago that with the coming of 2.1... there will be lots of nerfs coming. Now that things are getting "competitive", expect more razor sharp balance changes to be coming (ie. nerfs).



DHs are going to be fine. CA build is still going to work... now you probably just want more CDR on gear though. CA build will carry you to T4 maybe even T5 and after that you would need the Marauder set. The new armor change means DHs will be able to survive high level Torments really well.

And we still haven't seen what they are doing to the other useless DH set. It might get super buffed and allow for an additional high level DH build.



Also... anyone know what Blizzard is going to do with Mantra of Evasion and any other skills that use Dodge?

Know what would be nice?

A good generator that DOESN'T require a Kridershot.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Too much math theory craft with the new "STI/Harmony"... I would just honestly drop it and gear a Monk like people gear Barbs/Crusaders. It's way easier that way anyway.


Know what would be nice?

A good generator that DOESN'T require a Kridershot.
It would be nice if every class had good generators.
 

scy

Member
Too much math theory craft with the new "STI/Harmony"... I would just honestly drop it and gear a Monk like people gear Barbs/Crusaders. It's way easier that way anyway.

Just to note, it's One With Everything that becomes Harmony. New STI is still unknown at the moment.
 

Laconic

Banned
Man... fuck all of these changes. They are going out of their way to completely fuck up the builds that everyone uses, and render their long farmed gear useless. This kind of heavy-handed capricious manipulation to try and forcibly insert longevity into the game is NOT going to work.

They've pissed off legions already, doing this. Legions who have quit and moved on, because fuck this shit. I don't see these changes doing anything but killing off an even more substantial chunk of the user base.
 

Xanathus

Member
Psyched about this, but this also means that the game is pretty much dead until the patch comes in due to seasons and people not wanting to get burned out before they start racing. See you guys in 2.1!
 

J. Bravo

Member
when you guys say better generators, do you want something that generates more of the resource? or something that does more damage or is just a better skill overall?
 

cdyhybrid

Member
Man... fuck all of these changes. They are going out of their way to completely fuck up the builds that everyone uses, and render their long farmed gear useless. This kind of heavy-handed capricious manipulation to try and forcibly insert longevity into the game is NOT going to work.

They've pissed off legions already, doing this. Legions who have quit and moved on, because fuck this shit. I don't see these changes doing anything but killing off an even more substantial chunk of the user base.

Nah, a large chunk of people will be starting fresh characters for the new Season anyway.
 

Laconic

Banned
when you guys say better generators, do you want something that generates more of the resource? or something that does more damage or is just a better skill overall?

Something that makes me go "Ah, this looks like it would be a fun, viable skill with which to kill things!" ...and actually is.

Nah, a large chunk of people will be starting fresh characters for the new Season anyway.

Some will. A lot more than you might think, won't be. It isn't like D2, where you could get a viable character up and running in a day or two. Paragon screws that pooch six ways from Sunday.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Man... fuck all of these changes. They are going out of their way to completely fuck up the builds that everyone uses, and render their long farmed gear useless. This kind of heavy-handed capricious manipulation to try and forcibly insert longevity into the game is NOT going to work.

They've pissed off legions already, doing this. Legions who have quit and moved on, because fuck this shit. I don't see these changes doing anything but killing off an even more substantial chunk of the user base.
Ok buddy.

As a player of both Monk and DH... I am so pscyhed about not being shoe horned into using OWE like I have been using for the past 2 years. I am also psyched about not being forced to use defensive passives just to stay alive as Monk or be shoe horned into using a glass cannon DH or a half assed "tank" DH build.

The armor/Dex change is huge for these classes and opens up the ability to use more passives and even come up with more optimized builds. These changes does not deter me from using them but in fact makes me want to play them more.
 

Artanisix

Member
I have no idea. Skill slots aside, the only ones that are any decent are vault (which costs next to nothing in discipline anyways) and smoke screen. And part of the challenge of using prep/punishment was maintaining that balance of instant nuke with the defensive vault/smoke screen if you didn't erase the elite pack with your full cycle.

If anything, now they're really shoehorning DH's into cindercoat for the reduced resource cost if they want to use the most powerful spender. Prep/punishment at least let you get away without having the perfect gear.

What are DHs going to do? Go back to Elemental arrow? Ball lightning? Anything that's not CA that I've tried is notably weaker (excepting the full Maurader build of course).

They say they like the WD level of power and want to bring the other classes up. DH has to be one of the closest but they just hit the most popular build without giving anything in return.

Dude you haven't even seen the 2.1 class changes yet and you're already bitching. Relax. The prep change isn't the only change the class is going to get.
 

ZenaxPure

Member
I'm hoping to see some changes to Wizard Skills, and maybe Wizard Set bonuses (particularly Tal's and Firebirds) I feel like they're one of the weakest classes right now when it comes to T5-/T6

Man, I feel totally the opposite. I feel like Wizards are in one of the best spots considering they have multiple T6 capable builds. I've seen Archon of different elements, MM conflag with a bunch of variations, and both arcane and fire variations of explosive blast builds all working fine on T6. I'd kill for that kind of variety on my Barbarian.

I mean, I agree firebirds should still be fixed but shit, Wizard is in a pretty good place overall.
 

garath

Member
Dude you haven't even seen the 2.1 class changes yet and you're already bitching. Relax. The prep change isn't the only change the class is going to get.

Blizzard dropped that change, by itself, in a blog post. It's a topic for discussion. I happen to feel that taken on its own (which is all we have right now), it's a poor change. They even went so far as to try to talk up the change as getting the DH out of feeling like prep/punishment and nightstalker were mandatory. The justification doesn't change the nerf itself.

They're adding it to the PTR as a change by itself with justification why without any buffs to other builds to compensate. All we get is some vague promises that there are other changes to classes (in general) and additional legendary items coming down the pipe. It's worthy of some bitching.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Blizzard dropped that change, by itself, in a blog post. It's a topic for discussion. I happen to feel that taken on its own (which is all we have right now), it's a poor change. They even went so far as to try to talk up the change as getting the DH out of feeling like prep/punishment and nightstalker were mandatory. The justification doesn't change the nerf itself.

They're adding it to the PTR as a change by itself with justification why without any buffs to other builds to compensate. All we get is some vague promises that there are other changes to classes (in general) and additional legendary items coming down the pipe. It's worthy of some bitching.
Did you miss the change about Dex being converted to Armor instead of Dodge?

That's a change that directly impacts DHs... a lot actually.


I agree that the change to Preparation is not good by itself.. but overall this is not something that is going to bring down DH especially when taking into consideration the Armor change nor is it going to make some gear useless or make builds useless (CA DH would still be pretty damn good as a starter build). Have to see the rest of the changes in order to gauge where DHs would be. I am more interested in seeing buffs to other Spenders that put them in line with CA:LFB as well as changes to Sentries that allow for more variety in terms of Spenders using the 6 piece (right now it's bugged).
 

Laconic

Banned
Ok buddy.

As a player of both Monk and DH... I am so pscyhed about not being shoe horned into using OWE like I have been using for the past 2 years. I am also psyched about not being forced to use defensive passives just to stay alive as Monk or be shoe horned into using a glass cannon DH or a half assed "tank" DH build.

The armor/Dex change is huge for these classes and opens up the ability to use more passives and even come up with more optimized builds. These changes does not deter me from using them but in fact makes me want to play them more.

I agree with the Dex change being positive, and long overdue. I still think it would be nice if it were a 50/50 split of armor and res all, but it's cool as is.

The nerfs are dumb, for the most part, though.

OWE would be sexy as all get out on a leg gem. Imagine if they kept it as an optional skill on the gems, but not in the tree itself. Actually, that would be really fucking cool for every class - Legendary Gems that offer new passives. Make it happen, Blizzard!
 

garath

Member
Did you miss the change about Dex being converted to Armor instead of Dodge?

That's a change that directly impacts DHs... a lot actually.


I agree that the change to Preparation is not good by itself.. but overall this is not something that is going to bring down DH especially when taking into consideration the Armor change nor is it going to make some gear useless or make builds useless (CA DH would still be pretty damn good as a starter build). Have to see the rest of the changes in order to gauge where DHs would be. I am more interested in seeing buffs to other Spenders that put them in line with CA:LFB as well as changes to Sentries that allow for more variety in terms of Spenders using the 6 piece (right now it's bugged).

No, I saw that change. It's great. Will really help the defensive ability of DHs quite a bit. I'll get to drop Awareness from the passive slot too. That's fantastic.

Doesn't change the Prep:punishment nerf though.

I do look forward to seeing what sort of magic they are going to do with the rest of the hatred spenders and I really want to see what great defensive discipline spenders they want us to be using to spend all that discipline that we used to use on offense.

The prep:punish change doesn't even affect me anymore! I have the 6 piece maurader's build and I don't even use preparation. I object to the justification they give for the nerf. It would have been much better worded as:

"We've noticed that 95% of DHs that don't use Maurader's are using one basic build. We've decided that build is too strong in relation to other classes so we are going to nerf it."

Instead they spun it like it's a positive thing? That's the part that irks me.
 

ZenaxPure

Member
Well... the one thing with seasons.... is how does your stash carry over when it's complete?

Yeah, I wish they would address all this. I want to know how they plan to handle someone who has an entirely full stash in non-season and a full stash in the season.

I'm not really expecting an elegant solution on Blizz's behalf. Would love to be proven wrong though.
 

Dahbomb

Member
The OWE change is a nerf straight up and they worded it like they are doing Monks a favor. They are only doing Monks a favor if you take into consideration the Dex change because otherwise it's a huge nerf and it's a bigger deal to Monks than it is for DH because many high class Monks had gear with secondary resistances stacked to get over 2000 all res. I am one of those Monks and I would essentially need to replace most of my gear.

However because I have played a lot and with the recent crafting changes... I have gear to swap in when this change goes live. The stuff I don't have I can easily craft for now or gamble for without worrying about getting the right secondary res or the right 4 out of 5 stats. It's way easier to gear Monks now in general to make them T5-T6 survivable.


Still have to see the whole class changes but the days of Monks being trash tier are about to be finally over. Although I do expect that they might nerf the Rimeheart build.
 

Dahbomb

Member
I wonder how they are going to change the following Monk/DH passives:

STI/Awareness - Of course now that Monks/DH get ton of armor I wonder what these passives will do.

Sixth Sense - Is this passive still going to give Dodge?

Mantra of Evasion - Is this Mantra still going to give Dodge?

Guardian's Path - Is Dual wielding still going to give Dodge?
 

jblank83

Member
Man, I feel totally the opposite. I feel like Wizards are in one of the best spots considering they have multiple T6 capable builds. I've seen Archon of different elements, MM conflag with a bunch of variations, and both arcane and fire variations of explosive blast builds all working fine on T6. I'd kill for that kind of variety on my Barbarian.

I mean, I agree firebirds should still be fixed but shit, Wizard is in a pretty good place overall.

T6? Wizards have variety but not quality. Many classes both outdamage Wizards and are more survivable. WD, CRU, DH outdamage full fire stacked Wizard and Vyr Wizard. I don't know much about Barbarians, but the ones I've seen are very durable and do a good amount of damage. Even Monk seems to be in a decent place with the recent set changes, though I haven't seen one in action lately.

T5 is alright as a Wizard with some consistent problems, especially ranged (skeleton archers), anything like Exarchs, or any of the big smashers. At T6, it's much more problematic as Wizard is fragile and breaks easily. I'm not sure T6 is really worth running for anyone, though, outside WD/CRU.

The exception is a Wand of Woh wizard, but that's not a reality for most players. 400 hours and I've never seen one. I could easily go another 400 hours and not see one. It's that rare, and as such is not a realistic build for the vast majority of players.

That leaves most late game Wizards as either fire stack or Vyr. Fire stack requires the head, chest, glove, bracer, ring, and amulet slots, and probably the weapon as well. Realistically, a Wizard could have either Blackthorne immunity (belt, leg, boots) or Ice Climbers and the 2 set bonus from BT (+/- 10 elite) as well as Aughild's (+/- 15 elite). Most items are going to aim for CC, CHD, and element so HP is going to be around 400-500k, armor around 8000 (approx 78-80% reduc) and 1450 resists (78-80% reduc), with a little more here and there. Also throw in the 17% damage reduction from Blur. Even so, Wizard does not have the innate 30% damage reduction of Monks or Barbarians, nor anything as effective as WD's lifelink dogs coupled to Uthkapian Serpent. With fire stacking, Mirrorball, and Archon, the Wizard will be hitting about 10 or so million per MM (1.2-1.3 atk per sec), 30-45 mil on explosive blast or more on meteor, and 50-60 with Archon smashes. That's good but not great, and very fragile.

Vyr is either going to stack cooldown up to about 70% for short downtime (10s, requiring Born's / Captain Crimson in 4 slots, Aughild's moves to helm and bracer, and thus loss of 15-20% element from helm), in which case the Archon is rather weak and hits for 25-35 million or so (only slightly more effective than full element MM Wizard), or it's going to be strong with long downtime (30s) and will hit more like 50-60. You could also throw Blackthorne's or Ice Climbers in there at the cost of cooldown or element damage. Honestly, Vyr isn't comparable to what the top end classes are doing, and the survivability bonus in the Archon form (increases armor and resists by 20%, plus the slowdown bubble) is not enough to roll through really tough rifts without multiple deaths, though it does help with trash such as ranged skeletons. Oh, one more thing about Vyr: it's really either Arcane or Fire, due to the good quality elemental bonus items available for those, such as Moonlight Ward and Gesture of Orpheus. Cold and Lightning are viable but not as good due to the lack of items like Moonlight Ward.

Again, there are ultra-rare item builds, like Woh wizard and Rimeheart/Frostburn shatter, but these are unrealistic for most normal players. However, if you can find a Wand of Woh, it is WD levels of sick damage. There is also a type of support type stun lightning Wizard with Velvet Camaral + Myken's Ball of Hate, but it's more a curiosity, a trick, rather than a highly effective build.

Wizards aren't as terrible as Monks were, but they're still second class citizens, imo. I follow around WD and Cru and, despite having every Wizard item (minus Woh) with excellent rolls, am heavily outdamaged with consistent deaths. DH also outdamage and Barbs survive much better and do good damage with leapquake builds. I can't say much about Monk damage, but they're great to have around and die rarely.

Wizards are fun but I think there is still a "pre 2.0" misconception about how well they perform in the game. T4 is where I think Wizards top out in group settings, though they can run T5 and contribute to the party. At that point I'd rather have one of the other classes around, though, including Monks with their excellent support abilities. Solo is a little different, as monster damage is not as frightening.
 

ZenaxPure

Member
I'm not sure T6 is really worth running for anyone, though, outside WD/CRU.

Look, your post is full of a bunch of stuff I've seen with my own eyes to be exactly the opposite and I don't feel like responding to your wall of text (nor do I really care), but, this right here is really standing out to me in a complete "what the actual fuck am I reading" kind of way. I've got 4 characters I can run T6 comfortably on, solo, with or without unity (though unity is obviously OP as shit and should always be used when you can). Every class, even monk now, can run T6 just fine when you have the gear for it.

Group play is irrelevant in this kind of conversation because if you can do T6 solo (which every class can) you can do it in a group. What you are actually contributing to that group entirely depends on the makeup, but, it's not like your class is useless just because a jade WD can carry you in a T6 game. It just means jade doctor is OP as fuck which we've all known forever.

More to the point though, I can't believe anyone actually believes that T6 is only worth running on witch doctor and crusader. That is just nonsense.
 

jblank83

Member
That's congenial conversation. I'll keep it brief and stupid, then: Wizard aren't good in T6 and their top end isn't as good as most others.

Some other points...

Group versus solo - Monster damage increases in group setting and this damage reduces Wizard effectiveness versus other classes due to their lower survivability.
Monk - Yes, as I mentioned, their recent set changes have improved their end game. They were survivable before, but now are more effective in combat.
T6 - There is only a 15% increase in drops from T5 to T6, yet a large difference in difficulty. The number of players who can roll through T6 efficiently is low, and it doesn't include most Wizards, unless drawing an easy rift. Not with Fire stacking, not with Vyrs. Woh, probably yes. Woh melts everything. Rimeheart Shattering maybe, but I've not had the opportunity to see that one myself.
 

The Cowboy

Member
Lol 2.1.0 will kill RiF

Reading on the changes right now
From the way i read it i don't think so, the only major change is that it now costs each member in the party 1 shard to enter a Rift, so for RIF after your invited to the runners game you'd likely have to each pay 1 shard to teleport to them.

It only mentions not being able to teleport to someone in a Rift, if they are in a greater Rift.
 
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