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[Dahbomb]

There's no point in having Openers now.

Openers are basically getting 100% carried and they pay the same as the people who run the Rifts.

This doesn't kill RIF... it just makes it so that it's more cost efficient for Openers. You will NEVER be in a situation where you have to use up 20 fragments for doing 4 RIFs... instead you will always pay 4.


It actually makes RIF easier to manage and more consistent for all parties involved. No more "lowest Paragon opens" or drama over people not opening Rifts. It doesn't matter who opens now.

 

[jblank83]

This doesn't kill RIF... it just makes it so that it's more cost efficient for Openers. You will NEVER be in a situation where you have to use up 20 fragments for doing 4 RIFs... instead you will always pay 4.

It actually makes RIF easier to manage and more consistent for all parties involved. No more "lowest Paragon opens" or drama over people not opening Rifts. It doesn't matter who opens now.

I like it. Wait...

There's 0 reasons to have openers now. RiF was nice because you could spend all day in rifts and not spend a single fragment.

Not anymore.

Good point. Why do I need to invite anyone? I guess if I want to be a nice guy, I can let 3 people in to get their shards and drops, but what do I get out of it?

In any case, 1 key per rift is not bad. It makes grinding bounties much less painful.

 

[Fularu]

There's no point in having Openers now.

Openers are basically getting 100% carried and they pay the same as the people who run the Rifts.

This doesn't kill RIF... it just makes it so that it's more cost efficient for Openers. You will NEVER be in a situation where you have to use up 20 fragments for doing 4 RIFs... instead you will always pay 4.


It actually makes RIF easier to manage and more consistent for all parties involved. No more "lowest Paragon opens" or drama over people not opening Rifts. It doesn't matter who opens now.

There's 0 reasons to have openers now. RiF was nice because you could spend all day in rifts and not spend a single fragment.

Not anymore.

 

[Artanisix]

Wizards are probably the worst class in T6 right now.

Spoiler

That's what they get for having such an easy time at release.

 

[MrDaravon]

Just saw the blog, potentially cool stuff.

-Greater Rifts seem potentially good.
-Legendary gems are a pretty huge question mark; they're going to need to be at least potentially baller to worth giving up an affix on jewelry only slots in most cases though.
-While I personally don't care at all about leaderboard stuff it's not a bad addition and will let people grind out for epeen purposes so sure why not.
-DH/Monk getting armor from Dex is pretty significant for both classes, probably more DH since they couldn't double-stack resist with OWE, but still great for both.
-Hard to say how the OWE change will balance out; it's essentially a nerf, but with the separate Dex to Armor change it maybe works out better?
-Unless they make Life on Hit and Life Regen secondaries them buffing those and scaling back health globe bonus (which is currently a secondary) is pretty damn shitty.
-The Prep/Punishment change on it's own is pretty bad, and they pretty much acknowledge it's a nerf. Like dahbomb said though, we'll really need to see all of the changes to see if it balances out or not. That by itself is pretty garbage though especially considering it had already gotten nerfed in RoS (used to restore all Hatred instead of 75), and it essentially kills builds. I also don't buy that that it'll make CDR a desired stat for DH, considering how few cooldown abilities they have and how non-essential they are in general. Outside of my permastrafe build I occasionally mess around with I don't even run Prep so it's kind of a non-issue for me personally, but unless they made substantial other changes this is bad.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Sunwuko set + Warstaff of General Quang + Holy Damage gear will be great for farming rift keys quickly.

 

[Dahbomb]

There's 0 reasons to have openers now. RiF was nice because you could spend all day in rifts and not spend a single fragment.

Not anymore.

That's what I said.

This is basically going to make the ratio of runners to openers even more skewered. Runners will only allow people in just out of the goodness of their heart... they have absolutely NOTHING to gain from bringing more people in.

I also don't buy that that it'll make CDR a desired stat for DH, considering how few cooldown abilities they have and how non-essential they are in general.

They have Companion and Vengeance as potential cooldown skills. I personally use Vengeance - Seethe for the extra Hatred regen rune and if I can get more uptime on that then would allow me to spam more CAs.

 

[cdyhybrid]

That's what I said.

This is basically going to make the ratio of runners to openers even more skewered. Runners will only allow people in just out of the goodness of their heart... they have absolutely NOTHING to gain from bringing more people in.

Well technically you get a small magic find boost for the RG, but yeah, basically nothing.

 

[ZenaxPure]

I'll keep it brief and stupid, then: Wizard isn't very good in T6 and their top end isn't as good as most others.

You can say all the things about wizards you want but the reality is I've been doing T6 for literally months now (in fact, longer than anyone in the clan) and a large portion of that is with a wizard I've been playing with the entire time. A leap quake barb and a MM conflag wizard (both of which you don't think should be in T6 apparently).

Basically you're free to make all the points you want, but unless you're saying my nearly 1600 completed rifts (the majority of which was with my wizard friend and at this point more T6 rifts than non-T6 rifts) is all some sort of lie and we never did those things, then I don't really care. Me and him are going to keep doing T6.

 

[The Cowboy]

That's what I said.

This is basically going to make the ratio of runners to openers even more skewered. Runners will only allow people in just out of the goodness of their heart... they have absolutely NOTHING to gain from bringing more people in.

Actually yeah, this has changed my mind - i can see this pretty much making RIF pointless, and in thinking about it the change looks like it was clearly done to do exactly this (we all kinda suspected Blizzard would do something to stop it).

Currently i do RIF as a runner and invite people in so i can get a free RIft and not have to bother with bounties etc (that's the runners benefit of RIF), considering the shard change (costing everyone a shard), what's the point in inviting people in if i have to pay the same to open the next Rift making it so i still need to do bounties just as much as the joiners.

As you say, the only reason to invite after this change is just to be nice and nothing more, the way it is now has an actual benefit for all involved (runners get a free rift and don't need to do as many bounties - joiners get a free boss kill and shards) but with the change the only people who benefit are the joiners.

So unless we get loads of people who just like to help joiners out of the goodness of their hearts, i can see this ruining RIF - most people use RIF for efficiency and with the change its not efficient for the runner at all.

 

[Dahbomb]

Group versus solo - Monster damage increases in group setting and this damage reduces Wizard effectiveness versus other classes due to their lower survivability.

Monster damage doesn't increase in groups... only monster HP does.

 

[jblank83]

And I have 350+ hours on a Wizard since 2.0 started. That's a fallacious argument that does nothing to prove your point. It's rhetorically steps around the core argument that Wizards are among the weakest end game classes, if not the weakest. As you've seen between your post and mine, someone else has chimed in that Wizards are probably the worst T6 class. Using your own rhetorical tactics, I'd say that 2 opinions outweighs one.

You can complete all the T6 rifts you want. The question is efficiency. Does your friend have a Wand of Woh, for instance? If so, that makes him/her much more efficient, but it's not a viable argument in favor of the Wizard class due to its extraordinary rarity. If not, I'd like to see his/her profile. Maybe I could learn the secret to Wizard T6.

I have to say, you're sort of rude, friend. You can come at this from a completely different approach, open to arriving at mutual understanding on a subject. Nothing in my original post was insulting or confrontational. Nothing stops you from now being congenial.

Anyway, I'm going to go play some Professor Layton.

Monster damage doesn't increase in groups... only monster HP does.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[Dahbomb]

I am not sure if rarity should be taken into the equation to gauge strength of class.

The question is how does a Wizard perform with optimum gear. Yes that includes Woh, Rimeheart, full Vyr set and whatever else they may need to make the appropriate build. At that point you compare with other classes and their top end stuff (like a DH with 6 pc Marauder and Kridershot or a Monk with Frostburn/Rimeheart).

For that I say that Wizards are certainly viable at T6. Ranked with other classes though they are definitely weaker but not by much. Yes DHs do more damage than Wizards but Wizards have more survivability (which is going to change in 2.1 though).

You also have to realize that one of their sets (the Firebird one) is getting buffed in the upcoming patch so that should shake things up for them. Right now class ranking is pointless as stuff is about to get flipped on its head real soon.

 

[Dr_Boris_Goltz]

Hey where are you guys seeing these viable T6 builds? How does the collective just suddenly know the best builds?

Really? It's pretty much just a straight up nerf. There's little justifying that change other than to nerf the hatred cycling with discipline to get more CAs out.

It is a straight nerf, but one that feels okay for the flow of the game. I DO want that discipline for escapes, but then again I'm not a T6 DH with a ton of experience. I'm not even a T4 DH at this point.

 

[Mumei]

I am not sure if rarity should be taken into the equation to gauge strength of class.

I think it ought to be, but that's because I think that the complaints about particular classes being weak has less to do with what they are actually capable of with the right equipment and more to do with the relative difficulty of getting to that level. Witch Doctor has a very easy time at the very least getting to T5 solo / T6 group, and has so many viable equipment options that you can practically fall into *something* that will work, even if it's not necessarily the particular build you want to use. Monk, so far has I can tell, until quite recently had a small number of builds that are viable which required you'll-probably-never-see-them rare items. The other classes seem to exist somewhere along that spectrum

And hopefully the upcoming patch will allow for a proliferation of options for every class (but especially WD).

 

[scy]

In terms of measuring raw power of the class? No, I think rarity at that point is irrelevant. After that, it should definitely be a factor, however. Item Rarity and number of items needed are the important parts for how the class power level flows from hitting 70, starting Torment, and climbing to Torment VI but not really important for talking about their "at best" capability.

It is a straight nerf, but one that feels okay for the flow of the game. I DO want that discipline for escapes, but then again I'm not a T6 DH with a ton of experience. I'm not even a T4 DH at this point.

I suppose it's best put this way: You're gaining Discipline that was never really in contention to begin with since those skills weren't used anyway or, in the rare times they are, the cost was not an issue.

 

[ZenaxPure]

For that I say that Wizards are certainly viable at T6. Ranked with other classes though they are definitely weaker but not by much. Yes DHs do more damage than Wizards but Wizards have more survivability (which is going to change in 2.1 though).

This is pretty much my point from early on. I never said wizard was the best or worst, all I said was wizard can do T6 at a reasonable speed and with a few different builds (all of which I've seen first hand at this point not to mention the countless youtube videos out there of these builds in action). Wizard seems about on par with the other not obviously OP builds (6 pc mara, leap quake, the shiny new lightning monk).

And for the record of course I know efficiency is what matters, that should be pretty obvious to anyone at this point. I haven't timed any of our runs in a while now (since we've gotten so comfortable at T6) but the last time I bothered to time a chain of them as Leap quake/Wizard we were always in the 10ish minute range (some a bit below, some a bit above) unless the rift was ultra-ultra shitty (like 5-6 floors with no density and the few mobs that are there are shitty executioners). We did not move to T6 permanently until we could get our clear times under 15 minutes and that was a long time ago, we've only gotten better gear/more paragon levels since then.

Honestly we've hit that point where we just autopilot it while talking about other things on vent... Which has lead to tragic accidents because regardless of gear if you aren't paying attention there are some combos that can destroy you on T6.

 

[CRA5H]

Just stepping away from 2.1 talk for a sec.. I need help gaf.

Which should I use with my pet doctor build? I notice I hit harder with the Magefists but I'm not sure if the Pets IAS is already applied in the DPS or are they actually attacking at a faster rate?

 

[Boogdud]

It's going to really suck for crusaders with the nerf to health globes. Mainly because reapers wraps get killed in the process and they were pretty much mandatory for wrath generation. I guess unless they actually fix wrath gen for real.

 

[Dahbomb]

Wait a minute...

Did they say you get less Health globe spawns or that you get less heal from Health globes?

If it's the latter then I don't see how that affects Reaper's Wraps.

 

[ZenaxPure]

Wait a minute...

Did they say you get less Health globe spawns or that you get less heal from Health globes?

If it's the latter then I don't see how that affects Reaper's Wraps.

There was a blue post about the same thing. The amount of globes dropping is the same, you just get less healing from them.

 

[Raticus79]

Well, I'm glad I didn't put much time into leveling those other five monks for OWE.

 

[Boogdud]

Ah yeah I misread that. I read it as less healing globes but it's just the amount healed. Not that I wouldn't want them to fix wrath generation, mind you..

 

[Dr_Boris_Goltz]

I suppose it's best put this way: You're gaining Discipline that was never really in contention to begin with since those skills weren't used anyway or, in the rare times they are, the cost was not an issue.

Ah, that makes sense.

 

[IceMarker]

I'll be looking forward to those 2.1 patch notes.

 

[The Cowboy]

I'll be looking forward to those 2.1 patch notes.

I look forward to reading the Firebird set changes, hopefully they go full Jade harvester style with it (making it great for T6) - i now have a full Firebird's set, and I would love to use it .

 

[Dahbomb]

http://www.diablofans.com/news/48108-datamined-affix-chances-for-enchanting-rend-hotfix

Anyone see these datamine values?

Pretty much goes with what I said like week 1 of RoS about certain values in Enchanting being "weighted". Same as for loot drops. I wonder how accurate this is.

 

[Celegus]

I look forward to reading the Firebird set changes, hopefully they go full Jade harvester style with it (making it great for T6) - i now have a full Firebird's set, and I would love to use it .

Same here, I actually have a pretty great set of Firebird stuff that's almost worth using currently. If I can get a real set bonus, that would be amazing!

 

[Discobird]

http://www.diablofans.com/news/48108-datamined-affix-chances-for-enchanting-rend-hotfix

Anyone see these datamine values?

Pretty much goes with what I said like week 1 of RoS about certain values in Enchanting being "weighted". Same as for loot drops. I wonder how accurate this is.

Interesting. I wonder if these are the same weights used to generate affixed on freshly dropped loot or if enchanting is skewed in some way.

 

[Dahbomb]

I keep getting Code 73 error. Don't know what to do.

 

[jblank83]

Which should I use with my pet doctor build? I notice I hit harder with the Magefists but I'm not sure if the Pets IAS is already applied in the DPS or are they actually attacking at a faster rate?

You should still do more damage with Tasker, even if you're using fire based pets.

Yes, they're attacking at a faster rate. So while it might look like they're doing less damage, they're doing more with more attacks. If you're unsure, try some Ghom kill tests

.

http://www.diablofans.com/news/48108-datamined-affix-chances-for-enchanting-rend-hotfix

Anyone see these datamine values?

Pretty much goes with what I said like week 1 of RoS about certain values in Enchanting being "weighted". Same as for loot drops. I wonder how accurate this is.

I remember Blizzard confirming some enchants were more or less likely than others. It's interesting to see the actual values. Thanks.

 

[biaxident]

So battle.net is down apparently, was gonna finally get on after a week off, get that monk hype goin

Could they be adding PTR 2.1 to battle.net launcher?? can pray at least Edit: Nah doesn't look like it, jumped on reddit too quickly


BlizzardCS @BlizzardCS · 51m
Battlenet services have been placed in maintenance while we work to address ongoing issues. Stay tuned for updates.

from twitter

 

[Dahbomb]

Battle.net is down for some people but is fine for others. Not sure what is going on.

 

[ElyrionX]

What I don't like about Wizard is that one of the strongest build relies on what is effectively a melee skill. It's really annoying that after the removal of CM, wizards are still somewhat forced to be in melee range because some genius decided that the rarest and most powerful wand for the class triples the power of explosive blast. Luckily, the fixing of Vyrs alleviates this somewhat and I'm hoping the revamped Firebird set will finally make this a class defined by its ranged/kiting builds.

DH has the same issue, IMO, and I'd be pissed if it was my main because the zoo build really shouldn't be the most powerful for a kiting/glass cannon character. They're not fucking WDs/druids/necromancers/summoners.

 

[biaxident]

About the monk 2.1 changes today...

It's good that they realize dodge sucks, but to me making it just armor seems rather lazy and boring. They're just turning dex into strength. I was kind of hoping for it giving .5 armor, and .05 all resist (half of what you get from Intellect I believe?). Some free extra resist would be nice, and with the armor bonus would actually free up some passives. Mandatory passives are not the funnest idea, perhaps they'll WoWify it where they just include mandatory talents into the class? We'll see.

 

[CRA5H]

You should still do more damage with Tasker, even if you're using fire based pets.

Yes, they're attacking at a faster rate. So while it might look like they're doing less damage, they're doing more with more attacks. If you're unsure, try some Ghom kill tests.

Thanks! That's what I figured as well but some assurance was definitely welcome.

 

[eek5]

I'm curious how greater rifts will work in HC. Just simply avoid?

Go as far as you can then stop when it starts getting sketchy? I imagine the goal of HC would now be to try to get as far as you can or something.

 

[Mine01]

Hi guys! I dont know if this the topic for console versions (aka reaper of souls'less) but i guess ill post here anyway, sorry if this is the wrong topic

Well, a friend bought diablo 3 on the xbox 360 so we and 2 more friends have been playing it on local co-op, its awesome! but we are level 15-14 and we are at half of the Act 2 (i guess? we just killed the

Spoiler

butcher

) and i was wondering what do people do once they finish the campaing, we are new to the diablo universe but loving it.

Thanks and again sorry if this is the wrong topic guys.

 

[Tom Penny]

I have stacked lighting resist since day one..now OWE is gone..good job Blizz...maybe it will offset with the dex/armour..

 

[biaxident]

Hi guys! I dont know if this the topic for console versions (aka reaper of souls'less) but i guess ill post here anyway, sorry if this is the wrong topic

Well, a friend bought diablo 3 on the xbox 360 so we and 2 more friends have been playing it on local co-op, its awesome! but we are level 15-14 and we are at half of the Act 2 (i guess? we just killed the

Spoiler

butcher

) and i was wondering what do people do once they finish the campaing, we are new to the diablo universe but loving it.

Thanks and again sorry if this is the wrong topic guys.

On the console version, once you beat campaign you do it on nightmare again, then after that on hell, and onto inferno. You have to beat the game about 4 times to officially beat the game. Reaper of Souls changes everything, but that doesn't come to consoles for a few more months. Once at max level farm paragon xp, hellfire ring, and get ready for reaper really.

 

[Radec]

I'm not fond of that monk changes.

So lets say you have

+1000 all res from your gear, then +500 fire res
with current OWE, you will have 1,500 all res

with Harmony you will have :

1000 + 150 = 1,150 all res (except fire resistance)
1,000 fire resistance

is that right ?

 

[Artanisix]

1000 + 500 = 1500 fire res

 

[TheSadRanger]

Paragon stats aren't usable on seasonal characters, correct? I looked around on the b.net forums and the 2.1 preview but didn't see any info on that specifically.

 

[Boogalogist]

Probably not. Else, those with higher paragon levels will have an advantage. This seasonal thing is supposed to make everyone start from zero and have a fair chance. Paragon levels will skew that.

 

[cdyhybrid]

I think you start from 0, but any paragon exp/levels you gain during the season will move over to your full account at the end of the season.

 

[biaxident]

Paragon stats aren't usable on seasonal characters, correct? I looked around on the b.net forums and the 2.1 preview but didn't see any info on that specifically.

Your existing paragon will mean nothing, you start fresh with 0 paragon. You'll gain paragon as you level and can use those points though.

 

[RDreamer]

Changes to Monk and especially OWE seem kind of sucky to me. I mean I guess they might work and maybe solve the problems they had, but it seems so fucking boring now. Dex gives armor now? Oh... so it's just the same as strength. Ok... Losing OWE kind of sucks too, because as much as it was a pain in the fucking ass to gear with that, it was kind of interesting. It made gearing my monk different than gearing my other characters.

I kind of would have liked to see OWE become just an innate thing that monks had.

And wasn't dodge just fine as a stat when you could dodge all sorts of stuff like ground effects? Why not go back to that.

Seems weird too because there were a lot of abilities that used dodge to do things. Monk is essentially going to have to be redone from the ground up, and I don't really have faith it's going to come out interesting. Maybe viable. Not unique/interesting enough, though.

 

[Dahbomb]

Dodge sucks... you can't dodge many ground effects.

The Armor gain from Dex is lazy but it's infinitely better than the current Dodge system.

with Harmony you will have :

1000 + 150 = 1,150 all res (except fire resistance)
1,000 fire resistance

is that right ?

With Harmony you will have:

1000 All Res (already on gear) + 500 Fire res + 150 All res

So you will have 1500 Fire res and 1150 every other res.

 

[RDreamer]

Dodge sucks... you can't dodge many ground effects.

But... you could at one point in the game's history. Unless I'm mistaken anyway.

 

[toastyToast]

Dodge won't exist anymore? Wow

Since health and sustain are being looked into, I wonder if proc coefficients will get adjusted. Wizards are in the worst position since the nerfs from critical mass days were never adjusted after it was removed.

More likely they'll increase loh on items to roll 20k and leave it at that