Support NeoGAF

[Tazzu]

Their output has only gotten steadily worse, and the reality has probably hit them. Bayonetta 2 was a downgrade from 1 and 3 is a joke. Astral Chain is more forgettable than DMC4. I think its time they return to making games for gamers who will appreciate their work for what it actually is.

The good news is that with Bayonneta 2 turning 10 years, a home console port is imminent. Finally gamers will get what was robbed of them and give PG a reality check and not a Nitnendo cheque.

 

[daclynk]

edit sorry for Double post

 

[daclynk]

home console port is imminent

 

[Tazzu]

Gamers used to be excited for every PG project. Now we get mediocre rehashes since the Nintendo bump will take care of it.

 

[RoboFu]

That's a dumb take. The platform doesn't determine the gameplay.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

Sega were willing to kill the franchise rather than release the sequel, so I'm not sure Nintendo are the bad guy here. It sounds like the demand just wasn't there.

Also: Wonderful 101 - love it or hate it - was pretty much Platinum given free rein to do whatever they want.

 

[Pasta la Vista]

Platinum has way more misses than hits in their history. Some high highs and very low lows. Bayonetta was amazing but the sequels and Astral Chain were crap. They did some pretty terrible licenced games too like that TMNT one. I did like the Transformers game they did though.

 

[Tazzu]

Sega were willing to kill the franchise rather than release the sequel, so I'm not sure Nintendo are the bad guy here. It sounds like the demand just wasn't there.

Also: Wonderful 101 - love it or hate it - was pretty much Platinum given free rein to do whatever they want.

That's not true. Each Nintendo entry to Bayonetta franchise has yet to sell on par with the 360 version of Beyonetta in just Japan. How did they save the franchise by depriving gamers from the franchise exactly?

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

That's not true. Each Nintendo entry to Bayonetta franchise has yet to sell on par with the 360 version of Beyonetta in just Japan. How did they save the franchise by depriving gamers from the franchise exactly?

Because Sega were willing to kill it entirely? I literally said it.

 

[daclynk]

mediocre rehashes

Astral Chain was awesome and it innovated with their gameplay with a new IP. Bayo 3 was Action GOTY 2021. what are you talking about.

 

[Tazzu]

Platinum has way more misses than hits in their history. Some high highs and very low lows. Bayonetta was amazing but the sequels and Astral Chain were crap. They did some pretty terrible licenced games too like that TMNT one. I did like the Transformers game they did though.

Its called the Nintendo bump, if those games were released on Nintedo devices then we wouldn't be hearing the end of it. But unlike the Zelda cycle, Nintendo fans wont be fangirling over their new projects so its only a matter of time before they return to home console.

 

[daclynk]

Its called the Nintendo bump

Yo. what did Nintendo steal from you.

 

[Begleiter]

We already know it's their CEO at fault, though. The push towards service game nonsense was all Inaba. If they were allowed to keep doing what they're good at the studio would be ticking over fine.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

You could argue that if it weren't for Nintendo giving work to PG, they'd be in a far more dire situation by now, forcing them to either shut down or radically change direction.

But that's not necessarily a scenario that gives you the kind of games you want from them.

Scalebound was cancelled. Most of their other efforts outside of Nintendo were not well received and/or suffered from low quality.

What example do you have from the last decade or so that shows they had a bright future on their own? I can think of Neir and that's it. Not enough to sustain a company.

 

[Tams]

Its called the Nintendo bump, if those games were released on Nintedo devices then we wouldn't be hearing the end of it. But unlike the Zelda cycle, Nintendo fans wont be fangirling over their new projects so its only a matter of time before they return to home console.

Bruh, it sounds like you're just fishing for a console war fight. Stop.

 

[kevboard]

Bayonetta was amazing but the sequels and Astral Chain were crap.

what the fuck did I just read there?
Bayonetta 2 was great, as was Astral Chain. Both are better than DMC5 by a long shot for example, and DMC5 is a pretty good game itself.

 

[daclynk]

https://www.metacritic.com/game/astral-chain/

https://www.metacritic.com/game/bayonetta-2/

https://www.metacritic.com/game/bayonetta-3/
BEST ACTION GAME 2023. BAYO didnt win anything if i can remember.

https://www.metacritic.com/game/bayonetta-origins-cereza-and-the-lost-demon/
Okami like game. which even capcom gave up on.

So everything they have done best, is partnering with Nintendo.

 

[Robb]

Never heard this take before. Bayonetta 2 and Bayonetta 3 are both amazing, only issue is 3 runs very poorly on the hardware. Even Bayonetta Origins was great.

Astral Chain, TW101 and MadWorld are all fantastic as well if we’re talking ‘Nintendo output’.

StarFox Zero and Babylon’s Fall were pretty crap though.

 

[Fbh]

I liked Bayo 2 better than 1.
And I thought Astral Chain was great, it's still one of my favorite Switch games and I had more fun with it than with DMC5.
Not to mention W101 which I obviously love.

So no, I think their era with Nintendo was great. It's their stuff outside of the Nintendo ecosystem (except for Nier) which has mostly sucked, bombed and ruined their reputation

 

[Tazzu]

https://www.metacritic.com/game/astral-chain/

https://www.metacritic.com/game/bayonetta-2/

https://www.metacritic.com/game/bayonetta-3/
BEST ACTION GAME 2023. BAYO didnt win anything if i can remember.

https://www.metacritic.com/game/bayonetta-origins-cereza-and-the-lost-demon/
Okami like game. which even capcom gave up on.

So everything they have done best, is partnering with Nintendo.

Again its the Nintendo bump. If Okami came out first on a Nintendo platform we would have a statue of it.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Platimum was rescued by Yoko Taro and then by Nintendo as an exclusive partner.

However, the company seems pretty much in shambles. They need a tech upgrade for releasing on Switch 2.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

Again its the Nintendo bump. If Okami came out first on a Nintendo platform we would have a statue of it.

What is your vision of an alternate timeline in which Platinum never received work from Nintendo? What do you see happening differently?

 

[Tams]

Again its the Nintendo bump. If Okami came out first on a Nintendo platform we would have a statue of it.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

They need a tech upgrade for releasing on Switch 2.

Do they really need their own tech? Perhaps their programmers would be put to better use diversifying their portfolio of game mechanics instead of maintaining an old engine.

 

[Mister Wolf]

They were never that good. Extremely overrated.

 

[Pasta la Vista]

what the fuck did I just read there?
Bayonetta 2 was great, as was Astral Chain. Both are better than DMC5 by a long shot for example, and DMC5 is a pretty good game itself.

I'm not the one comparing the sequels to Bayonetta to any DMC sequel. I'm comparing the sequels to the original Bayonetta, which they never topped.

 

[N0S]

Never heard this take before. Bayonetta 2 and Bayonetta 3 are both amazing, only issue is 3 runs very poorly on the hardware. Even Bayonetta Origins was great.

Here's hoping Switch 2 boosts those games

 

[Tazzu]

Here's hoping Switch 2 boosts those games

Its amazing how much of a pass Nintendo gets, I remember reviewers saying how its going to be perfect on the Switch 2!

 

[Gaiff]

Oh yeah check out that Nintendo innovation. After this Gamefreak can finally start to PS2 quality graphics on their new games!

Quick Nintendrones, tell us how they are achieving world peace with this!

Nintendo innovation strikes again.

The worst part about these discussions are always the Nintendo fans who have to descend in.

Obviously, Nintendo inflicted trauma upon OP that they have yet to heal from.

 

[TheDarkPhantom]

Classics:

- Bayo
- Vanquish
- Automata
- MGR:R

Good:

- Madworld
- Wonderful 101
- Astral Chain

OK or Bad:

- Anarchy Reigns
- Babylon's Fall
- Transformers
- Korra
- StarFox
- TMNT

Overall a pretty mixed bag.

 

[kevboard]

I'm not the one comparing the sequels to Bayonetta to any DMC sequel. I'm comparing the sequels to the original Bayonetta, which they never topped.

as if that isn't a super common thing. sequels that disappoint people are almost the default.
Bayonetta 2 also is better than the first one in plenty of ways, it just has a different pacing and is more streamlined, which some people dislike but isn't inherently bad.

Astral Chain is also great. it has a unique combat system and almost felt like a PS2 throwback title. this might not be to everyone's taste but they made a unique game the way they wanted...

 

[Tazzu]

Obviously, Nintendo inflicted trauma upon OP that they have yet to heal from.

Are you excusing GameFreak? Stop me if I am wrong, but you seem like a Nintendo fan?

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

- Vanquish
- MGR:R

Hope these come to Switch 2

 

[N0S]

Its amazing how much of a pass Nintendo gets, I remember reviewers saying how its going to be perfect on the Switch 2!

Where else are we gonna play these games? Ofcourse I want them on better hardware.

 

[clarky]

Classics:

- Bayo
- Vanquish
- Automata
- MGR:R

Good:

- Madworld
- Wonderful 101
- Astral Chain

OK or Bad:

- Anarchy Reigns
- Babylon's Fall
- Transformers
- Korra
- StarFox
- TMNT

Overall a pretty mixed bag.

Reminds me to play through Revengence again, cheers.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

Are you excusing GameFreak? Stop me if I am wrong, but you seem like a Nintendo fan?

GameFreak being GameFreak is on them, it has nothing to do with Nintendo.

Do you blame EA and Activision micro transactions on Sony and Microsoft?

 

[Lethal01]

Their output has only gotten steadily worse, and the reality has probably hit them. Bayonetta 2 was a downgrade from 1 and 3 is a joke. Astral Chain is more forgettable than DMC4. I think its time they return to making games for gamers who will appreciate their work for what it actually is.

The good news is that with Bayonneta 2 turning 10 years, a home console port is imminent. Finally gamers will get what was robbed of them and give PG a reality check and not a Nitnendo cheque.

Astal Chain war probably their best game ever including what they did before platinum.
Bayonetta 3 was more fun than DMC5

 

[Tazzu]

GameFreak being GameFreak is on them, it has nothing to do with Nintendo.

Do you blame EA and Activision micro transactions on Sony and Microsoft?

Difference is gamers actually complain about shitty practises whereas Nintendo fans will reward it.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

Difference is gamers actually complain about shitty practises whereas Nintendo fans will reward it.

The people complaining about GameFreak's outdated tech are probably a small minority. Just like people complaining about the shortcomings of CoD or FIFA. Like Pokemon, these are mass market products and most consumers will purchase the yearly new edition regardless.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Their output has only gotten steadily worse, and the reality has probably hit them. Bayonetta 2 was a downgrade from 1 and 3 is a joke. Astral Chain is more forgettable than DMC4. I think its time they return to making games for gamers who will appreciate their work for what it actually is.

The good news is that with Bayonneta 2 turning 10 years, a home console port is imminent. Finally gamers will get what was robbed of them and give PG a reality check and not a Nitnendo cheque.

Funny how you left off Babylons Fall (Sony console exclusive with a marketing deal).

 

[Tams]

OP, show us on the doll where Nintendo touched you.

 

[Tazzu]

The people complaining about GameFreak's outdated tech are probably a small minority. Just like people complaining about the shortcomings of CoD or FIFA. Like Pokemon, these are mass market products and most consumers will purchase the yearly new edition regardless.

Reviewers will even reward developers when it comes to Nintendo.

It runs shitty now, but it will be perfect for the Switch 2!

 

[Majukun]

their issue was mismanagement..they started with a stellar roster of directors and a mission, they tried their hand with the first handful of titles but they never found real success, then they pivoted as the guys that made decent to good action games for cheap (korra, mgs rising), but in the meanwhile they lost mikami, kamiya tried the dragon game with MS and ended up burning out cause of it and they gave their best franchise to a guy that did get bayonetta on the production level but had no idea how to make a decently balanced action game

my guess is that after all those failures they had to scale back (also because for a small studio at one point they were juggling A LOT of projects) and they botched the rest..I still think that bayo 3 was heavely modified to reuse some parts and mechanics from the dragon game, and that ended up making it just an ok bayo game

now they have basically just the name, none of the big directors, none of the reputation.

and to answer the question, no the nintendo bump was not the issue, in fact it gave them a temporary boost in reputation in a period where they were already struggling to find money for projects

it's very sad what happened to them

 

[N0S]

Reviewers will even reward developers when it comes to Nintendo.

It runs shitty now, but it will be perfect for the Switch 2!

Arent reviewers doing the same with PS5Pro? With Wukong for example.

 

[Tazzu]

their issue was mismanagement..they started with a stellar roster of directors and a mission, they tried their hand with the first handful of titles but they never found real success, then they pivoted as the guys that made decent to good action games for cheap (korra, mgs rising), but in the meanwhile they lost mikami, kamiya tried the dragon game with MS and ended up burning out cause of it and they gave their best franchise to a guy that did get bayonetta on the production level but had no idea how to make a decently balanced action game

my guess is that after all those failures they had to scale back (also because for a small studio at one point they were juggling A LOT of projects) and they botched the rest..I still think that bayo 3 was heavely modified to reuse some parts and mechanics from the dragon game, and that ended up making it just an ok bayo game

now they have basically just the name, none of the big directors, none of the reputation.

and to answer the question, no the nintendo bump was not the issue, in fact it gave them a temporary boost in reputation in a period where they were already struggling to find money for projects

it's very sad what happened to them

Bayonetta 3 got 86 on MC, if it wasn't a Nintendo game it would've struggled to get into the 70s.

 

[RoboFu]

That's the only kind of bump the OP has going on here.

 

[Kumomeme]

i dont think Nintendo has anything to do with it.

 

[Tazzu]

Arent reviewers doing the same with PS5Pro? With Wukong for example.

Wukong doesn't look like a PS2 game.

 

[Majukun]

Bayonetta 3 got 86 on MC, if it wasn't a Nintendo game it would've struggled to get into the 70s.

it's not terrible, but it can't hold a canxdle to the original, but that was a masterpiece

I thought astro bot put to sleep the whole "reviewers score game higher just because it's nintendo", but seems like i was mistaken

 

[JimboJones]

Bayonetta 3 got 86 on MC, if it wasn't a Nintendo game it would've struggled to get into the 70s.

Your so right, also Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth and Astrobot would have been 65 metacritic average middling games if they where multiplatform as well.