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[Shin-Ra]

In the backpack scenario, where the characters are standing fairly still, the combination of temporal supersampling from sub-pixel jitter, ML and probably some unnecessary edge enhancement results in much more clearly defined detail.

 

[DeepEnigma]

That's literally what he is doing. Trying to suggest that there's no difference between a 4090 and a PS5 Pro.

Do they not do that? Do they not selectively choose to see when they want to and when they don't want to?

This is a tale as old as time in this comparison threads.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

No, because it's 2024. We compare current prices to current prices. We can't go back to 2022, so who cares what the prices were then? The poster you quoted was talking about the here and now, saying it's not worth it for $700. You got defensive and then made a comparison that doesn't make sense.

Yes. Are you?

When exactly did I say that? I asked how you got $700 for the RTX 4070. It was never $700. It was $600 and is now $550.

Talk about overreacting. I'm saying that today, going from a 6700 to a 4070 for $180 is absolutely worth it. Besides, I see the 6700 XT on Amazon for $290 vs $540 for the RTX 4070. This is a much more interesting comparison because the 6700 XT is faster than the regular 6700. So is it worth it to add another $250 to go from a 6700 XT to a 4070? Once again, I'd say yes.

To close it out and not derail the thread further with this silly PC vs PS5 comparison. Do I think the Pro is overpriced? Yes. Do I think PC GPUs are overpriced? Yes. Relative to 2020 (and especially 2016), everything has gotten quite a bit more expensive.

If everything is more expensive, or everything is overpriced... then that's a zero sum situation won't you say?

And again, this is about value... hence why we are talking about what something is worth. And the simple question (and why I even used the 4070 to compare to the 6700), is for what the PS5pro does over the digital PS5. Is it with $250 more?

Now surely, if you think a 4070 is worth $250 more than a 6700XT, then why do we even have conversations talking about if a PS5pro is worth $250 more than a base PS5 digital?

And that's the whole point of what I was saying. And you just helped me make my point. Yes, I would, and likely any PC gamer would say getting a 4070 over the 6700XT with a cost difference of anywhere between $180-$250 is worth it. So why isn't a PS5pro worth $250 when it offers similar advantages over the base PS5 as the 4070 offers to say a 6700XT?

 

[XXL]

Nah, just tired of stupid fanboyism. Not possible to appreciate the Pro without shitting on other systems? Sounds too difficult for you.

Almost everyone shit on the PS5 Pro's announcement.

But hey, if anything you think I said is untrue anywhere feel free to respond with something more than a personal attack.

 

[KaiserBecks]

>people arguing about price
>people arguing about "it's the same picture"

Me on my way to pick up my preorder:

 

[recursive]

Almost everyone shit on the PS5 Pro's announcement.

But hey, if anything you think I said is untrue anywhere feel free to respond with something more than a personal attack.

That guy just follows you from thread to thread writing essays. Seems he is your own personal fanbois.

 

[Gaiff]

And that's the whole point of what I was saying. And you just helped me make my point. Yes, I would, and likely any PC gamer would say getting a 4070 over the 6700XT with a cost difference of anywhere between $180-$250 is worth it. So why isn't a PS5pro worth $250 when it offers similar advantages over the base PS5 as the 4070 offers to say a 6700XT?

In a vacuum, it's worth it, but consoles have always offered better value than PC, so if the value is similar, it's an indictment on consoles. For instance, if you had told me a GPU with 45% better rendering than the 4070, 28% more bandwidth, and 2-3x faster RT was coming, I wouldn't dream of thinking it only be $100 more expensive. More like $200+.

The reason I and you even dared to think the PS5 was going to be $500-600 is because it's a console. If it were a GPU, I think neither of us would have thought about it remaining the same price.

The Pro has to be looked at through the lens of a console, not a PC. A PC at $700 with those specs would be a steal. A console, however? Well, the market has spoken and they think it's too expensive. Same way you could cram a 4090 and 7800X3D into a console and sell it for $1500, but people would be up in arms about the price.

Now it's become clear as day that the days of Sony subsidizing consoles are somewhat done, explaining in part why the Pro is $700 and not $500-600.

 

[XXL]

That guy just follows you from thread to thread writing essays. Seems he is your own personal fanbois.

 

[Drunkensamurai]

But upgrading from an RX6700 to a RTX4070 is?

I don't own a gaming PC so I can't tell you. If I need to zoom in like DF is doing then I ain't going to notice the difference. TLOU 2 on base PS4 was fine when I played it.

 

[LMJ]

I really did quit there. I didn't know much about the spoilers when I played it, but that damn line upset me so much. The old dude was apologizing for being a dick by giving her the most important thing in a post-apocalyptic world... food, and she just didn't give a shit. The complete lack of willingness to forgive is such a damning character trait for a hero.

Ah yes the common trait of the girl boss arch type, be a stuck up bi...er independent women...sorry womyn

 

[Gaiff]

Almost everyone shit on the PS5 Pro's announcement.

So let's shit on other systems. Makes sense.

 

[MisterXDTV]

It's just the first game actually captured on a fucking DevKit and people are already losing their minds...

Imagine what will happen a month from now....

LOL

Floodgates are opening

 

[dano1]

Aint worth $700

With all the extra power and a 2 TB SSD I'd say it's more than worth it.

 

[XXL]

So let's shit on other systems. Makes sense.

You're making things up again.

The only thing I shit on ever is Xbox as a company, I don't even shit on the games or the system.

I own a Series X.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

The Pro has to be looked at through the lens of a console, not a PC. A PC at $700 with those specs would be a steal. A console, however? Well, the market has spoken and they think it's too expensive. Same way you could cram a 4090 and 7800X3D into a console and sell it for $1500, but people would be up in arms about the price.

Now it's become clear as day that the days of Sony subsidizing consoles are somewhat done, explaining in part why the Pro is $700 and not $500-600.

Agreed. But if you think about it, how is this any different from the sticker shock of the RTX 4080 being $1200 vs the outgoing 3080 which cost $700? Or the 2080 before it which also cost $700?

I get it, its a console, but we have seen a shift in prices even in the PC sphere. We all complained about it, but now we all kinda expect the 50xx series cards to maintain that same prices.

I feel that is what is happening here with consoles. Its likely just becoming harder to impossible to build a decent console at that $400 price point we had come to accept or expect.

I didn't see this coming so soon, but I think this is the norm. I would be pleasantly shocked if the PS6 even has an option under $600/$700 now.

 

[Topher]

Check his post history and then tell me that this guy isn't one to engage in petty system wars.

Eh....if we are going to go down that road then I'd say there is a lot "petty system war" rhetoric come from both the PC and PS side of these discussions. If PS folks could discuss Pro with PC trolling and PS folks could talk about Pro without trolling PC......then that would be fantastic. Takes two to tango. At this point, I think the two are feeding off each other.

Meanwhile, Xbox fans be like...

 

[FrankWza]

I can't see a difference

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

I don't own a gaming PC so I can't tell you. If I need to zoom in like DF is doing then I ain't going to notice the difference. TLOU 2 on base PS4 was fine when I played it.

Then I will say this much to you, if that is how or what you think of games and fidelity. Then you have no business owning anything other than the base PS5, the Pro... was not made for you.

 

[Gaiff]

Agreed. But if you think about it, how is this any different from the sticker shock of the RTX 4080 being $1200 vs the outgoing 3080 which cost $700? Or the 2080 before it which also cost $700?

Oh, it's nowhere near as bad. Not even close. 3080 to 4080 is the most egregious price increase I've seen. Nothing comes even close.

I get it, its a console, but we have seen a shift in prices even in the CPU sphere. We all complained about it, but now we all kinda expect the 50xx series cards to maintain that same prices.

I feel that is what is happening here with consoles. Its likely just becoming harder to impossible to build a decent console at that $400 price point we had come to accept or expect.

I didn't see this coming so soon, but I think this is the norm. I would be pleasantly shocked if the PS6 even has an option under $600/$700 now.

Yeah, pretty much. I expect the PS6 to be $600 at the absolute best. More than likely, it'll be $700 as well, unless there's a major shift or some change occurs. I saw people saying the Pro's price is a way to get customers used to much higher price points. No more $500 consoles sold at a loss. This kind of saddens me because consoles were always an amazing bang for your buck. They will still be better than PCs, mind you, but I think the days of $500 premium consoles that match a PC twice the price are behind us.

Eh....if we are going to go down that road then I'd say there is a lot "petty system war" rhetoric come from both the PC and PS side of these discussions. If PS folks could discuss Pro with PC trolling and PS folks could talk about Pro without trolling PC......then that would be fantastic. Takes two to tango. At this point, I think the two are feeding off each other.

Meanwhile, Xbox fans be like...

PC fans have been every bit as bad. It's honestly tiring trying to have discussions about the tech, prices, and specs, but always being dragged into wars of ignorance correcting blatantly incorrect assertions, or trying to get a thread back on track. It was like those PC builds during the first few weeks following the reveal that sported a 7700 XT. Had to tell posters every damn time that it isn't the Pro's equivalent.

 

[FrankWza]

Eh....if we are going to go down that road then I'd say there is a lot "petty system war" rhetoric come from both the PC and PS side of these discussions. If PS folks could discuss Pro with PC trolling and PS folks could talk about Pro without trolling PC......then that would be fantastic. Takes two to tango. At this point, I think the two are feeding off each other.

Meanwhile, Xbox fans be like...

We need a PS5 Pro OT. Some faq and compatibility info is still not available like nvme location for heatsink compatibility and plates etc

 

[Gaiff]

We need a PS5 Pro OT. Some faq and compatibility info is still not available like nvme location for heatsink compatibility and plates etc

I assume they'll be identical to the base model so people can just transfer stuff from one to the other. At least, the nvme stuff. Dunno about the plates, but probably not.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I assume they'll be identical to the base model so people can just transfer stuff from one to the other.

Plates are different from Pro and Slim.

 

[FrankWza]

I assume they'll be identical to the base model so people can just transfer stuff from one to the other.

The location of the launch and Slim are different so if you have a heat pipe style sink it won't work. Like the elec. Also I don't think the expansion ssd needs transfer. I think it's plug in since it's already formatted and doesn't have any OS files

 

[MisterXDTV]

The fact that a capture from a DevKit of the laziest patch possible for the system gives these results, it's absolutely nuts...

They basically replaced TAA with PSSR and called it a day....

Unbelievable

 

[Gaiff]

Plates are different from Pro and Slim.

The location of the launch and Slim are different so if you have a heat pipe style sink it won't work. Like the elec

Was just talking about the nvme. Plates likely won't be the same. Some nvmes aren't compatible between the slim and old model?

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Yeah, pretty much. I expect the PS6 to be $600 at the absolute best. More than likely, it'll be $700 as well, unless there's a major shift or some change occurs. I saw people saying the Pro's price is a way to get customers used to much higher price points. No more $500 consoles sold at a loss. This kind of saddens me because consoles were always an amazing bang for your buck. They will still be better than PCs, mind you, but I think the days of $500 premium consoles that match a PC twice the price are behind us.

I think its just the natural order of things. Lets not forget that at some point, $299 was the "console" price, then we had the anomaly that was the PS3... and then that price became $399 with the PS4. Then it went "up to" $499 with the PS5, and now, the PS5pro is $699.

And I was one of those that said the PS5pro is the perfect scapegoat to use and introduce console gamers to the idea of paying $700 for a console. That was the first thought I had when I saw its price.

And yes, those days are firmly behind us.

 

[mayham2199]

Agreed. But if you think about it, how is this any different from the sticker shock of the RTX 4080 being $1200 vs the outgoing 3080 which cost $700? Or the 2080 before it which also cost $700?

I get it, its a console, but we have seen a shift in prices even in the PC sphere. We all complained about it, but now we all kinda expect the 50xx series cards to maintain that same prices.

I feel that is what is happening here with consoles. Its likely just becoming harder to impossible to build a decent console at that $400 price point we had come to accept or expect.

I didn't see this coming so soon, but I think this is the norm. I would be pleasantly shocked if the PS6 even has an option under $600/$700 now.

3080 was the last GPU I got before I dropped PC gaming. I can't believe the 4080 was $1200 holy shit. I can't believe PC gamers are saying anything right now.

 

[Killer8]

Youtube compression sucks so here is the backpack comparison using the source file from DF's own site:

Source:

Youtube:

 

[DeepEnigma]

Was just talking about the nvme. Plates likely won't be the same. Some nvmes aren't compatible between the slim and old model?

All PS5 compatible NVMEs are compatible with all PS5 models.

 

[mayham2199]

Youtube compression sucks so here is the backpack comparison using the source file from DF's own site:

Source:

Youtube:

Man it's crazy how much better that looks. So glad we got this information just in time. TLOU2 replay was my next game but now I'll be waiting but no idea what I'll play next.

 

[FrankWza]

Was just talking about the nvme. Plates likely won't be the same. Some nvmes aren't compatible between the slim and old model?

They are but some heatsinks are not because of the physical location

 

[Gaiff]

3080 was the last GPU I got before I dropped PC gaming. I can't believe the 4080 was $1200 holy shit. I can't believe PC gamers are saying anything right now.

Don't forget about the $900 4080 12GB. Thankfully, NVIDIA got told to fuck off with this. They repackaged it as the 4070 Ti for $800.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

3080 was the last GPU I got before I dropped PC gaming. I can't believe the 4080 was $1200 holy shit. I can't believe PC gamers are saying anything right now.

I have not dropped PC gaming, but I own a 3080 too. Once I saw the price of the 4080... $500 more... and that was assuming you could even get an unscalped one.... well lets just say my enthusiasm for PC gaming immediately diminished. I always had this spend $700 for a GPu ceiling in my head... was even willing to raise that to $1000. And while a 4080 can be bought for under $1000 now, I refuse to spend $950 for a GPU, that is going to be replaced in less than 2 months by its successor.

I will get the 5080 though, when its under $1000. At least the generational leap between it and the 3080 would be enough to justify buying it for me and sitting out another 2-3 generations for the 70xx series.

 

[Gaiff]

5080 when its under $1000.

 

[Crispy Gamer]

The fact that a capture from a DevKit of the laziest patch possible for the system gives these results, it's absolutely nuts...

They basically replaced TAA with PSSR and called it a day....

Unbelievable

Yup in the DF special last week this was Oliver's least exciting patch while Richard was shocked how much better it looked compared to the base but unbeknownst to us he had already played it I thought he was just talking about the footage Oliver provided.

 

[FrankWza]

Plates are different from Pro and Slim.

Was this confirmed somewhere? The slim is stock glossy vs the launch style plates? I haven't opened my disk drive yet but it matches the slim so that means the Pro is going to include the same finish?

Edit
Found this from a cnet article

I was initially put off by the new model's split-panel design (by contrast, the old PS5's shells are each a single, seamless piece of plastic), but I don't mind the look now that I've seen it up close. The top half of each panel is glossy — a change from the all-matte launch model — but other than making the console a little tricker to photograph, I don't really see this as a con.

I wonder if the top plates on the Pro are glossy or matte

 

[Radical_3d]

But he isn't going to buy a card that is getting a replacement in less than 2 months. So he'll get the 6080 when it's under $1.000.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Was this confirmed somewhere? The slim is stock glossy vs the launch style plates? I haven't opened my disk drive yet but it matches the slim so that means the Pro is going to include the same finish?

Apparently this post here:

PS5 Pro Officially Announced - Releasing Nov 7th - Price: $699.99 €$799.99 ¥119,980

24 hours out and we don't know the time they open the doors nor the price of the LE Pro bundle This is just the Sony we live with now Just ended up opening a Twitter account and following some people who do this for a living

www.neogaf.com

I think the image is an error, personally.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Yup in the DF special last week this was Oliver's least exciting patch while Richard was shocked how much better it looked compared to the base but unbeknownst to us he had already played it I thought he was just talking about the footage Oliver provided.

It's the least exciting patch because Naughty Dog basically did nothing. They just relied on PSSR to do all the work for them

So yeah it's the least excting but at the same time it's the most impressive possible...

And again we are talking about the first iteration of PSSR on a DevKit. It will keep improving on a system level in the coming months/years

 

[Kataploom]

If everything is more expensive, or everything is overpriced... then that's a zero sum situation won't you say?

And again, this is about value... hence why we are talking about what something is worth. And the simple question (and why I even used the 4070 to compare to the 6700), is for what the PS5pro does over the digital PS5. Is it with $250 more?

Now surely, if you think a 4070 is worth $250 more than a 6700XT, then why do we even have conversations talking about if a PS5pro is worth $250 more than a base PS5 digital?

And that's the whole point of what I was saying. And you just helped me make my point. Yes, I would, and likely any PC gamer would say getting a 4070 over the 6700XT with a cost difference of anywhere between $180-$250 is worth it. So why isn't a PS5pro worth $250 when it offers similar advantages over the base PS5 as the 4070 offers to say a 6700XT?

Because console users are not used to this price range. That's it, I can understand it but they have to understand the world is not the same after COVID and that suppliers and factories are not lowering their prices as they did before just in case we have another COVID situation, that's what I read somewhere and it makes sense.

Also, PC is more expensive, that's right but most of the time the cost can be split and once you have your first PC you can do gradual improvements over the time, which is why maybe to many it's just better or feels kinda cheaper.

 

[Zacfoldor]

With all the extra power and a 2 TB SSD I'd say it's more than worth it.

Yep, only 100 dollars more expensive than the 2tb XSX.

People are upset. I've been very gentle with their feelings knowing I'm going to be getting a GPU upgrade in my PS5 and they are not. I do not hold not having a job or disposable income against any man. There someday shall I be and from whence I came. But for the grace of God go I.

That said, it is clearly worth the money.

The quality will be remembered long after the price is forgotten.

Nobody gonna argue against that, not at all, lol. It is basically losing the argument before they even begin. Getting a GPU upgrade for PS5 and also getting PSSR node on top of that is a 2 way swing and a much higher quality device. The quality will be remembered long after the price is forgotten. Anyone on the fence should remember that. Don't let the Swamp of Sadness suck you down into it and make you skip a key upgrade for the entire last half of the gen.

 

[omegasc]

Was this confirmed somewhere? The slim is stock glossy vs the launch style plates? I haven't opened my disk drive yet but it matches the slim so that means the Pro is going to include the same finish?

Edit
Found this from a cnet article


I wonder if the top plates on the Pro are glossy or matte

Apparently this post here:

PS5 Pro Officially Announced - Releasing Nov 7th - Price: $699.99 €$799.99 ¥119,980

24 hours out and we don't know the time they open the doors nor the price of the LE Pro bundle This is just the Sony we live with now Just ended up opening a Twitter account and following some people who do this for a living

www.neogaf.com

I think the image is an error, personally.

Disc plate will be the same. The others I still believe will be the same, but there are conflicting information all over the internets.

 

[RoboFu]

Yep, only 100 dollars more expensive than the 2tb XSX.

People are upset. I've been very gentle with their feelings knowing I'm going to be getting a GPU upgrade in my PS5 and they are not. I do not hold not having a job or disposable income against any man. There someday shall I be and from whence I came. But for the grace of God go I.

That said, it is clearly worth the money.

The quality will be remembered long after the price is forgotten.

Nobody gonna argue against that, not at all, lol. It is basically losing the argument before they even begin. Getting a GPU upgrade for PS5 and also getting PSSR node on top of that is a 2 way swing and a much higher quality device. The quality will be remembered long after the price is forgotten. Anyone on the fence should remember that. Don't let the Swamp of Sadness suck you down into it and make you skip a key upgrade for the entire last half of the gen.

no one is comparing it to the XsX.. they are comparing it to a PS5 for less and BETTER PCs for a little more. But more so its the people who think a pro will compare to a 4090 with its secret sauce that is ridiculous.

 

[dano1]

Yep, only 100 dollars more expensive than the 2tb XSX.

People are upset. I've been very gentle with their feelings knowing I'm going to be getting a GPU upgrade in my PS5 and they are not. I do not hold not having a job or disposable income against any man. There someday shall I be and from whence I came. But for the grace of God go I.

That said, it is clearly worth the money.

The quality will be remembered long after the price is forgotten.

Nobody gonna argue against that, not at all, lol. It is basically losing the argument before they even begin. Getting a GPU upgrade for PS5 and also getting PSSR node on top of that is a 2 way swing and a much higher quality device. The quality will be remembered long after the price is forgotten. Anyone on the fence should remember that. Don't let the Swamp of Sadness suck you down into it and make you skip a key upgrade for the entire last half of the gen.

!!
Can't wait till November 7th!!

 

[DeepEnigma]

But more so its the people who think a pro will compare to a 4090 with its secret sauce that is ridiculous.

But more so, eh?

Name them. Show us them receipts.

 

[Bojji]

The fact that a capture from a DevKit of the laziest patch possible for the system gives these results, it's absolutely nuts...

They basically replaced TAA with PSSR and called it a day....

Unbelievable

It's the least exciting patch because Naughty Dog basically did nothing. They just relied on PSSR to do all the work for them

So yeah it's the least excting but at the same time it's the most impressive possible...

And again we are talking about the first iteration of PSSR on a DevKit. It will keep improving on a system level in the coming months/years

This is how ND rolls since PS4 Pro, then they just increased resolution from 1080p to 1440p and it was... that + HDR that also worked on normal PS4. Then they did the same for TLoU2 on PS4 Pro.

They are lazy motherfuckers, amazing ND from PS3 days is gone.

 

[MisterXDTV]

I never understood how people could believe that PS5 Slim plates woult fit on the Pro...

I mean the size of the two consoles is completely different. How could they possibly fit?

LOL

 

[DeepEnigma]

I never understood how people could believe that PS5 Slim plates woult fit on the Pro...

I mean the size of the two consoles is completely different. How could they possibly fit?

LOL

The drive cover would have to fit at the very least. They are not going to run two different disc SKUs for a plate.

 

[Drunkensamurai]

Then I will say this much to you, if that is how or what you think of games and fidelity. Then you have no business owning anything other than the base PS5, the Pro... was not made for you.

indeed a very correct assessment sir.

 

[MisterXDTV]

The drive cover would have to fit at the very least. They are not going to run two different disc SKUs for a plate.

Yes, because the BD drive part is actually the same

But the rest of the chassis is not the same at all