balls of snow
Gold Member
Drop the rt, increased the base resolution.
Done.
Also these issues are probably why devs are delaying pro patches.
Done.
Also these issues are probably why devs are delaying pro patches.
[Digital Foundry] Star Wars Jedi Survivor PS5 Pro: Severe Image Quality Problems... But RT in Performance Mode Is Nice
- Thread starter Lunatic_Gamer
- Start date
- News Analysis Review
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I am blaming the devs. and I will also add there are games running poorly on PC but not to this level. Yes, there are stutters. But find the worst offenders. I will happily let you post examples, there is stutters and thats it. The worst release I had seen recently was last of us 1 remake at launch.
I own everything too, and I stand by my decision to not buy a PS5 pro right now. I dont think its worth it. That's fine to think that way, and It is totally for you guys to think it is worth it. I hope you feel it was worth every penny. I am just expressing my opinion on it.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
This is what I think. These devs need to do what was mentioned in the marketing. Run PS5 quality settings at higher frame rates. They are trying to push this box to do things it clearly doesn't have the power to do. It should be PS5 Quality running at 60FPS. Or PS5 perfromance mode with a higher base resolution then use PSSr to upscale to 4k. It would look and run a lot better.
Desprado123
Member
Very sad to see Sony Fanboys turning out be exactly same as AMD fanboys when people use to tell flaws but did not listen and put the blame on customers, developers and Nvidia and look where it got AMD GPU segment today it cannot recover. At one time between 2002-2004 AMD had more than 50% market share
of GPU and now not even 12% proper. Blaming PC fanboys, developers and other won't solve pro issues.
of GPU and now not even 12% proper. Blaming PC fanboys, developers and other won't solve pro issues.
Vick
Member
We have a dozen high-end PC users here on GAF who bought PS5 Pro and claimed they couldn't be happier about their purchase.
Your opinion, which hasn't changed one bit ever since reveal, is based on selected coverage on those handful of stinkers mostly caused by poor choices on devs side.
This should suggest it would be different in case you owned the console and saw the improvements for yourself, even in negative cases like the one in this Thread where multiple owners saw a considerable upgrade over base PS5. Although, considering I don't remember ever seeing you calling for Microsoft to be sued into oblivion for claiming Series S would run the same Series X games at same framerate and settings just at 1440p vs 4K, and see you instead on daily basis insisting on the "Fidelity visuals at Performance framerate" as if what Cerny stated "Fidelity-like visuals at Performance framerate" wasn't what this thing mostly does, I bet even that wouldn't change much..
PSSR needs work, especially if devs want to focus on such low internal resolutions, but has still shown to do wonders at higher resolution. The boost in Performance, in backwards mode especially, is not going to turn 30fps games into 60fps ones. But when not CPU constrained (games you can count on one hand), it did turn all the Ray Traced Capcom 45-50fps games I cared about into 60fps ones. And its increased RT capabilities did produce RT additions over base PS5, at times by the inclusion of multiple RT features completely absent on PS5.
Bojji
Member
You talk about issues - YOU are the problem.
Typical PS5 Pro
Look at this video and AW2 video, they are comparing DLSS using the same low resolution and DLSS is much better. PSSR is only good with high enough native res, so dream of "saving" games with low resolutions is gone (until PSSR is updated at least):
Little Chicken
Gold Member
Remember when people thought they'd be playing GTA VI on PS5 Pro at 4K 60fps with RT on 
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
1 game, 1 patch in the launch window is hardly conclusive evidence of anything! Well, more than some people's desperate need to catastrophise anything and everything to do with the Pro.
Especially coming from an article with a ridiculously hyperbolic title!
SKYF@ll
Member
It's true that DLSS is much more stable, but upscaling from low resolutions is ugly in both cases.Look at this video and AW2 video, they are comparing DLSS using the same low resolution and DLSS is much better. PSSR is only good with high enough native res, so dream of "saving" games with low resolutions is gone (until PSSR is updated at least):
This is fatal for games that rely on image quality.
sncvsrtoip
Member
Another game that looks worse on pro than on base console, Im starting mentaly preparing that gta6 will be also better on base 
Bojji
Member
Never forget:
No one sane use anything lower than DLSS performance mode on 4k displays on PC. I was mocked for saying that PSSR won't be good with resolutions lower than 1080p for months here. "Sony invented Ai upscaling!", "native resolution don't matter!" and shit like that.
Turns out, low resolution games will still look bad on Pro. Developers needs to check their priorities.
Luipadre
Gold Member
Another game that looks worse on pro than on base console, Im starting mentaly preparing that gta6 will be also better on base
Rockstar devs are not an incompetent bunch so probably no
LordOcidax
Member
Thanks God that the only thing that’s matters is output resolution this days , native resolution is a thing of the pass… 
This game should have an 8K mode too 
This game should have an 8K mode too 
DonF
Member
I haven't watched the video yet, but sounds like they should tests 1.0 disc version of the game.
LordOcidax
Member
Rockstar is not well known for good optimization, especially on Sony consoles. So don’t take anything for granted.
PaintTinJr
Member
Or games with poor graphics(low fidelity artefacts at native) because of low resolution intermediate buffers and below game frame-rate fx updates will continue to be poorly inferred in reconstruction to higher resolutions.Never forget:
No one sane use anything lower than DLSS performance mode on 4k displays on PC. I was mocked for saying that PSSR won't be good with resolutions lower than 1080p for months here. "Sony invented Ai upscaling!", "native resolution don't matter!" and shit like that.
Turns out, low resolution games will still look bad on Pro. Developers needs to check their priorities.
Or are you going to suggest that if PSSR is fed with a pristine 720p image from a PS3 game like Journey the 4K reconstruction is going to look poor?
The maxim of: "garbage in, garbage out" crops up here on Neogaf from time to time, and this is another good time to use it, rather than false conclusions to show that a far more mature ML AI technique at handling garbage does a marginally better job to produce garbage out.
Bojji
Member
RDR2 still has dogshit CB implementation on PS4 Pro/PS5.
Markio128
Gold Member
With RT on? I don’t recall anybody dreaming of such a scenario. Even 4K is a stretch. It was only questioned if the Pro could achieve 60fps in any case.Remember when people thought they'd be playing GTA VI on PS5 Pro at 4K 60fps with RT on
Bojji
Member
One of the first games I booted up on the Pro and was like oh god it's worse! Hopefully it gets patched. Silent Hill 2 without the Pro patch is the same. Tbh I'm starting to think UE5 was a mistake.
Then you have FF7R and it's a night and day difference on the Pro
Difference is so big in FF because normal PS5 version looked like shit, much worse than it should have with 1080-1440p native resolution. Even 1080p GOW3 remaster looks cleaner and sharper than Rebirth on PS5.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
ShaiKhulud1989
Gold Member
Ah, Unreal Engine is just being shit on every platform without further optimizations. Who could've thought. But of course there is a platform-related drama with usual suspects around.
Look at Stellar Blade on the same engine for a proper integration and devs will eventually get better with the new tech. First DLSS games were very rough, and I speak from experience of owning 2080 since it's launch.
Look at Stellar Blade on the same engine for a proper integration and devs will eventually get better with the new tech. First DLSS games were very rough, and I speak from experience of owning 2080 since it's launch.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
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Senua
Member
Isn't jedi UE4?
Stella - UE4
Jedi - UE5
Bulletbrain
Member
Would be a shame not to use the 2-4x better* RT grunt, no?
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Senua
Member
Yes, what did I say ?
Doctor Hades
Member
In my opinion, the developers need to leave the original graphics modes in the game and add new ones labelled "Pro" alongside those to make it obvious that the game has been patched with Pro support. This also means that you can switch back to the original Performance and Resolution modes if the new modes are buggy or inferior in any way to the originals. The game can still default to the new Pro modes on running on a PS5 Pro for those that don't like to mess around with settings.
The lack of consistency with the way Pro enhanced patches are being implemented is the most annoying thing for me. Some developers are leaving in the original modes, some are just removing them and adding Pro variants and others such as Ubisoft are forcing just a single mode. And with games like Silent Hill 2, which is listed as Pro Enhanced, I am not even sure if the game is actually enhanced as it has the same two modes as the PS5!
After the initial thrill of testing out games on the Pro during the first week, I am starting to become increasingly disappointed with the quality of some of the so-called Pro Enhanced patches. Seems like most of the effort has gone into the first-party games - understandably, since these have to sell the console for Sony - but far less effort has gone into the third-party games. Some of these just feel rushed/unfinished (Star Wars Jedi: Survivor, Silent Hill 2, Dragon Age: The Veilguard, Dragon's Dogma 2, etc). I can understand this to a certain extent as third-party developers are being forced to support another platform going forward but may not want to spend too much time or money on updating older games that have already been out for some time, especially for a new platform with a small user base.
The lack of consistency with the way Pro enhanced patches are being implemented is the most annoying thing for me. Some developers are leaving in the original modes, some are just removing them and adding Pro variants and others such as Ubisoft are forcing just a single mode. And with games like Silent Hill 2, which is listed as Pro Enhanced, I am not even sure if the game is actually enhanced as it has the same two modes as the PS5!
After the initial thrill of testing out games on the Pro during the first week, I am starting to become increasingly disappointed with the quality of some of the so-called Pro Enhanced patches. Seems like most of the effort has gone into the first-party games - understandably, since these have to sell the console for Sony - but far less effort has gone into the third-party games. Some of these just feel rushed/unfinished (Star Wars Jedi: Survivor, Silent Hill 2, Dragon Age: The Veilguard, Dragon's Dogma 2, etc). I can understand this to a certain extent as third-party developers are being forced to support another platform going forward but may not want to spend too much time or money on updating older games that have already been out for some time, especially for a new platform with a small user base.
twilo99
Member
rabbity-thing
Member
Maybe the dream of scaling sub-1080p to 4k displays isn't a dream worth saving.
Bruno_Arrais85
Member
Amateur hour
twilo99
Member
The fanboi has a very selective behavior when it comes to Sony gaming hardware ..
If there is a problem it must be the lazy developer, it just needs a patch, it’s not optimized, etc.
If the same occurs on PC or the consoles we don’t speak of, the approach changes to “that’s what you get with shitty hardware” and there is no mention of “devs” or optimization patches
MaKTaiL
Member
There are hard evidences that Sony just copied XeSS source code and labeled it PSSR. They didn't train it on anything. I bet future updates will heavily rely on XeSS being updated too.
Yes PSSR is going to improve in the future the more they train the model.. We already have examples of it beating the pants off of FSR and outperforming even 3.7 DLSS in some ways. You shouldn’t take a botched, likely earlier version, of PSSR and extrapolate it to be the norm.
Topher
Identifies as young
Reducing this debate down to "fanboys" isn't any better. If these issues were occurring 100% across the board with all games then it would be pretty easy to just say these are "pro issues" but that isn't the case so a bit more nuance is required than pointing to "fanboys", don't you think?
Shitty PC ports (and other consoles) are often laid at the feet of developers and rightfully so. Are we seriously going to pretend that this does not happen on the PC side of things? Because that's just bullshit.
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Topher
Identifies as young
What are these "evidences"?
twilo99
Member
Of course it happens! Optimization is usually the main problem 90% of the time on all platforms…
I think you missed the point.
Topher
Identifies as young
I mean.....you were just replying to a guy suggesting this is "shitty hardware", as you put it, so yeah, not sure what point you are making here unless it is about PC and console "fanboys" alike.
Salty Pickle
Member
Should we all start wearing tin-foil hats too?
Maybe we should stick to facts and you could share this ”hard evidences” or was that stolen by aliens right before they probed you inappropriately?
MaKTaiL
Member
News - Analysis - Review - [Digital Foundry] Star Wars Jedi Survivor PS5 Pro: Severe Image Quality Problems... But RT in Performance Mode Is Nice
And that's why I never liked them(developers) having complete control over my performance. This game runs/ran bad on PC. A well known modder released a mod that adds Reflex, DLSS, and Frame Gen. People would be surprised how playable those three things made this game for PC. PC gamers spend...
twilo99
Member
The point is selective bias.. it’s obvious that software optimization is the main issue most of the time, but it’s mostly pointed out if the issue occurs on Sony hardware.
This whole thing also makes all of these silly digital foundry videos where they show a few frames difference between the platforms and declare a “winner” absolutely worthless since it’s the developer’s doing 90% of the time and not the hardware.
pasterpl
Member
Is t this the developer that finishes with saying that they have not gone with PSSR?It depends on devs tho
twilo99
Member
If this is the case it means that Sony took a look at FSR4 and decided that XeSS is the better option, which doesn’t bode well for RDNA4 on PC..
Also, if PSSR is a rebranded XeSS the whole project is in good hands since I don’t think Intel will stop development anytime soon.
Topher
Identifies as young
News - Analysis - Review - [Digital Foundry] Star Wars Jedi Survivor PS5 Pro: Severe Image Quality Problems... But RT in Performance Mode Is Nice
And that's why I never liked them(developers) having complete control over my performance. This game runs/ran bad on PC. A well known modder released a mod that adds Reflex, DLSS, and Frame Gen. People would be surprised how playable those three things made this game for PC. PC gamers spend...www.neogaf.com
Eh....not sure how reliable any of that is, but ok.
lol...wrong. It is pointed out across the board whether it is PS, Xbox or PC. The fact that you are suggesting this ("mostly") only occurs with "Sony hardware" is the selective bias here.
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