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[SKYF@ll]

extra GPU (45% if cerny is to be believed or 30% if you go by other benchmarks)

I've watched a lot of comparison videos, and I think it's safe to say that without any optimization, the boost is around 35%.
If developers just remove V-Sync and the 60fps cap, the difference will be even greater.
However, in 120Hz mode, the Zen 2 CPU limit is reached and the boost will almost always be below 30%.
The important thing is the VRR limit (48Hz), and games that ran at 36-60fps on PS5 OG（XSX) will run at 48fps or more on PS5 Pro, compensating for the apparent smoothness of movement.

 

[Gaiff]

They are picking the worst games running on Pro! They did the same thing when PS4 Pro was released when they did full articles about how TLOU remastered was running slower (before been patched).

Where are the fully featured articles about Dragon Dogma 2, BG3, Monster hunter Wilds. Where is the full comparison between Spider-man 2 PSSR and PC DLSS? They seem to focus on the worst cases of games running on PS5 Pro, exactly like I expected they would.

Alan Wake 2 and this game are the worst games on Pro, litteraly.

Oh, please, stop with this bullshit. They covered TLOU2 in 3 separate videos and had no shortage of praise for the IQ. They also extensively covered Rift Apart, Spider-Man 2, and F1 24. Where were your complaints then? Should DF only pick what's favorable and do Sony's marketing job for them?

Jedi Survivor is a piece of shit. Days after release, it was so broken on PC that they released a statement saying they were aware of the issues, only to never address them. Then a year later, they finally updated it, but the game still stutters, just less than before. DF did 3 videos exposing their garbage.

As for the console versions, those absolute morons had RT in the performance mode before someone wizened up and figured out they should turn that shit off. Fast-forward to today, those muppets still cannot figure out how to make this game look good on a console with a significantly faster GPU and AI-assisted upscaling.

Yet here you are being more concerned about how DF makes the Pro look rather than a dev shitting every version of a AAA game that had 19 months in the oven. I don't give a damn about this game, but if I were a Pro owner, I'd be pissed at Respawn for serving me this piece of crap on my spanking brand-new console. This is who you should be mad at, not DF who rightfully called them out and were much harsher with the PC version, which still sucks to this day.

 

[Topher]

Oh, please, stop with this bullshit. They covered TLOU2 in 3 separate videos and had no shortage of praise for the IQ. They also extensively covered Rift Apart, Spider-Man 2, and F1 24. Where were your complaints then? Should DF only pick what's favorable and do Sony's marketing job for them?

Jedi Survivor is a piece of shit. Days after release, it was so broken on PC that they released a statement saying they were aware of the issues, only to never address them. Then a year later, they finally updated it, but the game still stutters, just less than before. DF did 3 videos exposing their garbage.

As for the console versions, those absolute morons had RT in the performance mode before someone wizened up and figured out they should turn that shit off. Fast-forward to today, those muppets still cannot figure out how to make this game look good on a console with a significantly faster GPU and AI-assisted upscaling.

Yet here you are being more concerned about how DF makes the Pro look rather than a dev shitting every version of a AAA game that had 19 months in the oven. I don't give a damn about this game, but if I were a Pro owner, I'd be pissed at Respawn for serving me this piece of crap on my spanking brand-new console. This is who you should be mad at, not DF who rightfully called them out and were much harsher with the PC version, which still sucks.

I was actually curious about how Jedi Survivor looked on Pro more than the other games given how pisspoor the game looked on base PS5 and on PC prior to DLSS being added. This game has had problems on every platform so this isn't a Pro issue, but it would have been to see some effort by Respawn to address some of these issues if they are going to bother with a patch. Clearly DF was curious about this as well. I can't blame them for wanting to have a go at some of the more notorious games as well as first party.

 

[Gaiff]

I was actually curious about how Jedi Survivor looked on Pro more than the other games given how pisspoor the game looked on base PS5 and on PC prior to DLSS being added. This game has had problems on every platform so this isn't a Pro issue, but it would have been to see some effort by Respawn to address some of these issues if they are going to bother with a patch. Clearly DF was curious about this as well. I can't blame them for wanting to have a go at some of the more notorious games as well as first party.

Same. That the Pro turns games with good IQ and performance into games with great IQ and performance doesn’t matter as much as it turning games with bad IQ and performance into games with good IQ and performance. Going from bad to good is a lot more impactful than going from good to great.

The big challenge of PSSR was always going to be games with low base resolutions, not those running at 1440p internally. So far with Alan Wake 2 and Jedi Survivor, it’s struggling mightily. Of course, if those devs had their priorities straight, this would be less of an issue, but they insist on ray tracing at 60fps.

This isn’t an indictment on the Pro and neither was Alan Wake 2. This is simply the devs making baffling decisions and having questionable priorities.

 

[poodaddy]

Completely off subject for this thread....but fuck man this gif is the cutest thing I've ever seen. Jesus I wanna hug a monkey or ape so bad.

Alright, everyone continue arguing about games, sorry to interrupt.

 

[TGO]

I'm curious what those patches actually do other than replace the existing upscaling technique with PSSR.
Minus PSSR, what exactly are they using the actual power of the PS5 Pro to do?
Luckily some are just happy that few games Performance Modes had decent base resolution for PSSR to work with when they flipped the switch

 

[adamsapple]

Oh, please, stop with this bullshit. They covered TLOU2 in 3 separate videos and had no shortage of praise for the IQ. They also extensively covered Rift Apart, Spider-Man 2, and F1 24. Where were your complaints then? Should DF only pick what's favorable and do Sony's marketing job for them?

Jedi Survivor is a piece of shit. Days after release, it was so broken on PC that they released a statement saying they were aware of the issues, only to never address them. Then a year later, they finally updated it, but the game still stutters, just less than before. DF did 3 videos exposing their garbage.

As for the console versions, those absolute morons had RT in the performance mode before someone wizened up and figured out they should turn that shit off. Fast-forward to today, those muppets still cannot figure out how to make this game look good on a console with a significantly faster GPU and AI-assisted upscaling.

Yet here you are being more concerned about how DF makes the Pro look rather than a dev shitting every version of a AAA game that had 19 months in the oven. I don't give a damn about this game, but if I were a Pro owner, I'd be pissed at Respawn for serving me this piece of crap on my spanking brand-new console. This is who you should be mad at, not DF who rightfully called them out and were much harsher with the PC version, which still sucks to this day.

Like I said earlier in this topic, the 3 PS5 Pro specific videos they've done this week (SM2, AW2, Survivor) are all 3 games that were in their top 10 graphics list of 2023.

They're focusing first on what's relevant for them, or like you said, games that had low base resolutions, probably to put PSSR through its paces.

 

[Desprado123]

my two cents on this issue

With RT RTX 3080 12 GB Epic settings, DLSS Quality on 1440P with RT on.

With RT RTX 3080 12 GB Epic settings, DLSS Quality on 1440P with RT off.

Average gamer would not able to find any difference expect major performance hit. That is i do not even bother touch RT on. (Yes water reflection and other reflection has difference but does not justify the such a impact)


In my view, Console or PC, Ray tracing does not bring any major benefit for the gaming expect performance hit.

 

[Inviusx]

I'm curious what those patches actually do other than replace the existing upscaling technique with PSSR.
Minus PSSR, what exactly are they using the actual power of the PS5 Pro to do?
Luckily some are just happy that few games Performance Modes had decent base resolution for PSSR to work with when they flipped the switch

For Jedi Survivor specifically, they have re-introduced RT to the 60fps Performance mode. Which is cool.

 

[SpokkX]

Yes PSSR is going to improve in the future the more they train the model.. We already have examples of it beating the pants off of FSR and outperforming even 3.7 DLSS in some ways. You shouldn’t take a botched, likely earlier version, of PSSR and extrapolate it to be the norm.

no evidence Sonys tech will improve over time like nvidia. Also nvidia improved their tech in conjuction with new hardware

You extrapolate from the wrong perpective

 

[kevboard]

no evidence Sonys tech will improve over time like nvidia.

true, but it probably will. even tho it's not about more ML training and instead probably gonna be hand made tweaks to the existing ML model.

Also nvidia improved their tech in conjuction with new hardware

they did not. DLSS looks 100% identical on every RTX gpu.

 

[Desprado123]

true, but it probably will. even tho it's not about more ML training and instead probably gonna be hand made tweaks to the existing ML model.




they did not. DLSS looks 100% identical on every RTX gpu.

First of all Sony is not a GPU vendor like AMD and or Nvidia. Second is that if this was that easy than FSR would have been better but at times even FSR 1 quality is better than FSR 2, example is RE4 Remake.
So it is not easy that it sound like it will improve, and it will only depend how fast AMD AI will be because at end it AI depends on hardware more than software hacks. If AI was that easy and than AMD would have
something better to compete with DLSS.

 

[DenchDeckard]

What a stinker.

 

[kevboard]

First of all Sony is not a GPU vendor like AMD and or Nvidia. Second is that if this was that easy than FSR would have been better but at times even FSR 1 quality is better than FSR 2, example is RE4 Remake.
So it is not easy that it sound like it will improve, and it will only depend how fast AMD AI will be because at end it AI depends on hardware more than software hacks. If AI was that easy and than AMD would have
something better to compete with DLSS.

I feel like you overestimate the AI part of AI upsampling. AI based reconstruction uses in essence the exact same basic technology as non-AI based ones like FSR2 and TSR. the first steps of them all are all basically the exact same.

the image is jittered, image information is gathered over multiple frames, an algorithm that gets motion data, depth data etc. decides which pixel should have which color, post processing is applied, and done.
the only difference with AI based ones is that they have a final step before post processing and after the pixels get initially reconstructed. and in that step the ML model looks at the image and corrects what it thinks are errors in the image, while non-ML reconstruction blindly follows its algorithms.

so in essence, AI based ones simply have a step that cleans up parts of the image. that's the only real difference. in the end, all of them are just "fancy" TAA, used to add perceived resolution instead of only adding detail for AA purposes.

 

[phil_t98]

rushed patches simple as that

 

[Kangx]

These devs that struggle with low res on the base ps5 know that they don't have to to use PSSR on the pro right?

Lord of the fallen devs just used the engine upscaler with 40 percent increase in internal res, empire of the ants look super sharp with 1440 internal res also using UE5 upscaler, and so is Lie of Pies.

Unless you have an engine light enough with high internal res to resolve a good looking image and stability then why choose sub 1080p res with PSSR?

Would you rather have AW2 running at 1200p with FSR or PSSR running at 860p with barely noticeable graphic?

same thing for this game too. Would you rather have this running at average around 1400p with FSR or the current performance mode around 1000p? The same gona apply to SH2 too.

I am sorry Sony is not forcing PSSR on these devs, but it is bizarre to see them opt for lower resolutions with PSSR instead of high resolution with FSR.

 

[pasterpl]

As expected 3rd parties doesn’t care much (too small install base), pro enhancements will be added by junior saff, just to make Sony happy and get some extra publicity. This makes PRO the best place to play some of the Sony exclusives, but most 3rd party will be similar to base PS5 version. Developers are already thinking, working with the next gen consoles in mind (switch 2, ps6, next box etc) so why bother spending time and money on enhancement for small audience that will be max 10mln by the end of this gen (whenever this happens).

 

[Pedro Motta]

What a stinker.

Takes one to know one. You're working double shifts lately.

 

[pasterpl]

PSSR will get better. DLSS was rough out the gate. People were talking mad shit about it and deservedly so. Rite of passage. PSSR likely won't become special until PS6. These Pro owners are beta testers like I was for DLSS buying a 2080TI.

But I was told on this very forum that PSSR is on par with DLSS. /s

 

[Gen.Grievous]

As expected 3rd parties doesn’t care much (too small install base), pro enhancements will be added by junior saff, just to make Sony happy and get some extra publicity. This makes PRO the best place to play some of the Sony exclusives, but most 3rd party will be similar to base PS5 version. Developers are already thinking, working with the next gen consoles in mind (switch 2, ps6, next box etc) so why bother spending time and money on enhancement for small audience that will be max 10mln by the end of this gen (whenever this happens).

Games being in development will benefit the most. Can't blame third party developers for not going all out for games that have been out for a while. In the state the gaming business is in getting a developer to spend a lot of resources and money for little return is a big ask.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Takes one to know one. You're working double shifts lately.

You're upset with me for commenting on how poor this patch is?

Is that due to some insecurity over the pro or something?

Sony got you guys bad. Even if they have ripped you guys off and abused your trust. You will point the finger at someone else?

I'm not saying that's what's happened but it does look that way.

 

[SKYF@ll]

But I was told on this very forum that PSSR is on par with DLSS. /s

PSSR has been on the market for just 10 days.
It's a baby that has just begun to walk the path of its older brother DLSS.
We'll have to wait for future updates to see what it can do with its 300 TOPS AI cores.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Sony got you guys bad. Even if they have ripped you guys off and abused your trust. You will point the finger at someone else?

Lots of Xbox and PC guys in here claiming victory over a poor patch or two is bizarre. Those games with poor patches played like garbage on base PS5 and they’re still better on the Pro even if it’s not ideal

Y’all act like your own platforms are devoid of “stinkers”. Devs gonna dev.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

But I was told on this very forum that PSSR is on par with DLSS. /s

It’s not far off if it’s not. Its certainly not bad like initial DLSS is, it’s even better in certain aspects and basically has the same flaws (you can’t upscale from super low resolution)

 

[DenchDeckard]

Lots of Xbox and PC guys in here claiming victory over a poor patch or two is bizarre. Those games with poor patches played like garbage on base PS5 and they’re still better on the Pro even if it’s not ideal

The console costs 800 pounds with a disk drive and looks the same or worse than my base ps5 that I've had for 4 years.

This is an L which ever way it is cut. The hardware doesn't match what the devs expected and or the devs are incompetent and rushed the patch out. What's stopping future patches to be handled this poorly?

People were saying the pro will become where they play their third party games and the early tests are really quite odd. Something is up. It's not a good look at all.

 

[Zathalus]

With a competent AI upscaler of course.

 

[Senua]

It’s not far off if it’s not. Its certainly not bad like initial DLSS is, it’s even better in certain aspects and basically has the same flaws (you can’t upscale from super low resolution)

It's definitely better than DLSS 1.0

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

The console costs 800 pounds with a disk drive and looks the same or worse than my base ps5 that I've had for 4 years.

This is an L which ever way it is cut. The hardware doesn't match what the devs expected and or the devs are incompetent and rushed the patch out. What's stopping future patches to be handled this poorly?

People were saying the pro will become where they play their third party games and the early tests are really quite odd. Something is up. It's not a good look at all.

It’s not the “same or worse” it’s still better. Please don’t spew ignorant stuff like this

Pro is where I will play third party games. There’s plenty of great third party patches

Why are you playing ignorant and being disingenuous?

 

[Mister Wolf]

It’s not far off if it’s not. Its certainly not bad like initial DLSS is, it’s even better in certain aspects and basically has the same flaws (you can’t upscale from super low resolution)

You can upscale from lower resolutions with DLSS and get satisfactory results. Several outlets like Hardware Unboxed, DF, and even members on this site have documented this. PSSR like it's ancestor FSR is incapable of this feat.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

PSSR like it's ancestor FSR is incapable of this feat.

Where’s the proof homeslice?

You have a technical document explaining why? No? So you’re just pulling it out of thin air

And no, DLSS still has constraints at lower resolutions

 

[DenchDeckard]

It’s not the “same or worse” it’s still better. Please don’t spew ignorant stuff like this

Pro is where I will play third party games. There’s plenty of great third party patches

Why are you playing ignorant and being disingenuous?

Ok, then. I'm being disingenuous with my expectation of this box vs the price and what I was told to expect.

If that's what you think you are free to do so.

There's plenty of evidence pointing that the console is more like 30% uplift over the base ps5.

 

[Panajev2001a]

People were saying the pro will become where they play their third party games

On console, nobody projected people that keep bringing £800 up as a scary ghost “concern”while spending lots more on their PCs HW to stop and migrate to consoles… sooo, for titles that like the video even says have had tons of problems and patches if they are better on newer HW but not perfect they are still better… so… .

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Ok, then. I'm being disingenuous with my expectation of this box vs the price and what I was told to expect.

If that's what you think you are free to do so.

There's plenty of evidence pointing that the console is more like 30% uplift over the base ps5.

The 30% uplift is boost mode

No patches at all. Not using the AI chip. Not using the other architecture enhancements.

Again continue being ignorant on this topic. Plenty of games now look more crisp at 60fps than they did on base PS5 at 30fps

 

[mansoor1980]

a couple of bad patches and PSSR is doomed to oblivion
most of the updated games look great

 

[SKYF@ll]

You can upscale from lower resolutions with DLSS and get satisfactory results. Several outlets like Hardware Unboxed, DF, and even members on this site have documented this. PSSR like it's ancestor FSR is incapable of this feat.

I don't think there are any weird PC gamers upscaling 720p to 4K.
Most gamers using high-end PCs will choose 1440p/DLSS for high frame rates.
The fatal flaw of consoles is the lack of choice.
Developers should leave the original mode for all PS5 games. (30-35% higher frame rate and slightly higher resolution)

 

[Mister Wolf]

Where’s the proof homeslice?

You have a technical document explaining why? No? So you’re just pulling it out of thin air

And no, DLSS still has constraints at lower resolutions

 

[PeteBull]

Nobody is paying $1000 for the pro? Where are you getting that from? Trade in your ps5 and the price drops to $350.

Here in my country ps5pr0 with discdrive would be 1k usd if u could get discdrive at retail normal official price, unfortunately tons of scalpers, including many smaller stores(big ones simply got 0 supply) sell it at over 250$ so yup, if u add console +discdrive(which is a must obviously) its close to 1200$ here, with 5x lower salaries vs the US

 

[Joel Was Right]

I haven’t noticed it. In fact I was just saying to someone recently how noticeably better the game looks!

DF also criticised Veilguard’s patch, but again, it is night and day difference in how much better the game looks.

It’s worth remembering that DF are first and foremost a technical analysis platform, so they will note and criticise shimmering on a distant object in the background when it is x4 zoomed in. But that doesn’t necessity mean most people will even notice that, much less impact their admiration of the new fidelity on these games.

In that sense, they do lack the context.

 

[DenchDeckard]

The 30% uplift is boost mode

No patches at all. Not using the AI chip. Not using the other architecture enhancements.

Again continue being ignorant on this topic. Plenty of games now look more crisp at 60fps than they did on base PS5 at 30fps

The defence is strong. I stand by my personal opinion that if nvidia launched a product 4 years later at double the price of the previous box, they would be raked over the coals if it had these kinds of issues. Launch window or not.

Sure all issues could be ironed out and we never see these issues again in the future but I have a feeling these won't be the only bad ps5 pro patches from third party devs.

Even if rhwy fix it in two weeks it's still piss poor for those who have laid the money down.

 

[Lysandros]

So there is many good pro patch but where are the video coverage Oliver? We need to balance this thing out.

Come on, throw us some bone here lol.

Are you really asking DF to have a 'balanced' coverage about a Sony console? They are being as 'balanced' as usual. They were also very balanced for PS3/PS4/PS5, their consistency is legendary.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

The defence is strong. I stand by my personal opinion that if nvidia launched a product 4 years later at double the price of the previous box, they would be raked over the coals if it had these kinds of issues. Launch window or not.

Sure all issues could be ironed out and we never see these issues again in the future but I have a feeling these won't be the only bad ps5 pro patches from third party devs.

Even if rhwy fix it in two weeks it's still piss poor for those who have laid the money down.

There’s plenty of games that have run like shit on expensive PC hardware and it’s not the fault of the hardware

PC users raked the devs over the coals with them, they didn’t blame NVIDIA

Seriously bruh, use your head for once?

 

[PixelatedBeast]

In Canada it cost close to $1000 and even I was graphic whore enough that I was willing get one, you can’t find fucking disc drive and without that I can’t play none of my games I already own.

Im sure you can still drop that price down if you trade in your PS5 in Canada too. Nobody is paying $1000 for the PS5 pro. Maybe for the anniversary edition bundle.

 

[mansoor1980]

I haven’t noticed it. In fact I was just saying to someone recently how noticeably better the game looks!

DF also criticised Veilguard’s patch, but again, it is night and day difference in how much better the game looks.

It’s worth remembering that DF are first and foremost a technical analysis platform, so they will note and criticise shimmering on a distant object in the background when it is x4 zoomed in. But that doesn’t necessity mean most people will even notice that, much less impact their admiration of the new fidelity on these games.

In that sense, they do lack the context.

DF exacebrate the flaws , they dont focus on the positives at all in a lot of their tech analysis videos

 

[Zathalus]

Are you really asking DF to have a 'balanced' coverage about a Sony console? They are being as 'balanced' as usual. They were also very balanced for PS3/PS4/PS5, their consistency is legendary.

Those utter monsters.

 

[vkbest]

The thing with FF7 is that its not running any RT effects. The RT effects are the problem here. PSSR cannot handle them right now. AW2 runs at a similar resolution (even a little bit higher in fact) to Rebirth and has really bad issues with resolving reflections. Even the star wars jedi survivor's quality mode runs at a much higher resolution averaging 1440p and yet PSSR here struggles far more than ff7 rebirth.

But yes, they shouldve just increased the resolution of the performance mode and allowed it to run around 1152p like Rebirth.

RT is not the problem, this is happening with multiple games are not using RT. The problem is with darker areas, so it's more obvious when you are using RTAO. This could be even a non related PSSR problem and software/api bug, so you can find some games using boost mode having this same pattern.

 

[rofif]

PSSR has been on the market for just 10 days.
It's a baby that has just begun to walk the path of its older brother DLSS.
We'll have to wait for future updates to see what it can do with its 300 TOPS AI cores.

This argument makes nonsense at all.
This type of up scaling is not new. Sony have years of dlss to study and they are not starting from 0 because dlss exists and everyone knows how this should work and look.

It’s like saying “oh it’s their first car, next one will have all wheels attached properly”.
There are no excuses here. They are recreating job that is already studied and done. Just patch it quickly and move on if there is a problem.

But I suspect implementation is wrong because other games look good

 

[Dibils2k]

clear devs need to stop just blindly using PSSR, clearly its not a fit for all solution... this looks absolutely disgusting

 

[Thebonehead]

Are you really asking DF to have a 'balanced' coverage about a Sony console? They are being as 'balanced' as usual. They were also very balanced for PS3/PS4/PS5, their consistency is legendary.

 

[Pedro Motta]

You're upset with me for commenting on how poor this patch is?

Is that due to some insecurity over the pro or something?

Sony got you guys bad. Even if they have ripped you guys off and abused your trust. You will point the finger at someone else?

I'm not saying that's what's happened but it does look that way.

That's the thing, I have one, I played the game with the patch, it's WAY better than it was before, sure not perfect, but it does what it's supposed to do. Implementations are on the developers side, not the hardware or Sony. You have multiple posts on multiple threads trying to discredit something you can't even verify yourself.

And you tell me I'm the one caught? I have all the platforms.

 

[FeralEcho]

700$ well spent for a generation of coping.