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[dotnotbot]

Bullcrap.

I never remember last gen console fans saying Bloodborne, God of War, Last Of Us 2, Drakes 4, Spiderman, Ghost of Tsushima
and Witcher 3 were unplayable and broken because of 30 FPS on the console..

A lot of opinions like that, especially about Bloodborne. You must have been living under a rock, it's been a hot topic for the whole PS4/X1 gen.

 

[DenchDeckard]

It's relevant because that means the limiting factor is literally the visual fidelity and GPU, not the "backend systems" and CPU utilization people keep talking about. That's the point I'm making.

Where is this supposed "more activity than any other game" argument? Visually, No. AI/Physics? No. It's a great looking game. There are plenty of others on the level or even better that have 60 fps modes. So the only argument you guys have is "the sandwiches", which is pretty nonsensical, and if that's worth the tradeoff to you, more power to you but that's a very bad decision and it makes sense why many people are not happy about it

So we know that the series x is around the same as a 3600x in performance and a 2080 super...I have one question...if this game is benchmarked at launch and in cities, towns, combat etc with lots of physics and we see the framerate drop below 60fps at console settings and the gpu utilisation is below 90 percent so we know it's the CPU...Will you admit you've been talking doo doo and are clueless on this matter?

Sorry, forgot the /s

But it's 60fps on console isn't it? I played on PC so no idea.

Lol, I play on PC too. My daughter is on XBOX on that game and it's no where near 60 fps, doesn't look like it anyway...no where near locked and it's not doing anything close to this game in scope and physics etc.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

You can travel to 1000 worlds in Hogwarts, that's a new one on me....

Traveling across one world or 1000 worlds is made pretty easy by the SSDs… it’s not going to drive whether 60fps is possible

Load up the new scenery, and go.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Traveling across one world or 1000 worlds is made pretty easy by the SSDs… it’s not going to drive whether 60fps is possible

Load up the new scenery, and go.

You're a developer are you? How many worlds can one travel too in Hogwarts?

 

[Negotiator101]

Can't wait for this just hoping on a solid smooth 30fps. Game looks amazing overall and more importantly it looks like it's going to be a special game.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

You're a developer are you? How many worlds can one travel too in Hogwarts?

I’m not arguing whether creating 1000 procedural worlds is an impressive development feat. It certainly is

I’m arguing that it’s not a limiting factor in performance. You literally load up the new assets. You don’t load all the 1000 world assets all at once

 

[Team Andromeda]

A lot of opinions like that, especially Bloodborne. You must have been living under a rock, it's been a hot topic for the whole PS4/X1 gen.

The same crack where peoples still call Bloodborne as the best game of the last gen?. How many people do you know who said God of War, Last Of Us 2, Drakes 4, Spiderman, Ghost of Tsushima were broken unfinshed games?

 

[GymWolf]

If you want native 4k you play on PC that's just how these things go. Consoles will always struggle since the have limited resources and devs don't prioritize such attributes.

Some 4kinda mode look way more sharper than diablo 4kinda.

 

[Zathalus]

A lot of opinions like that, especially Bloodborne. You must have been living under a rock, it's been a hot topic for the whole PS4/X1 gen.

Yeah but most of the bitching was from PC players. Obviously 60fps is better and 100fps+ even more so but I have been playing games since the SNES days and 30fps is fine albeit not ideal. I finished Crysis back in the day and that was lucky to hit a stable 30fps. Same with Half Life if I recall correctly.

 

[Team Andromeda]

I’m not arguing whether creating 1000 procedural worlds is an impressive development feat. It certainly is

I’m arguing that it’s not a limiting factor in performance. You literally load up the new assets. You don’t load all the 1000 world assets all at once

I doubt you're a developer and I would imagine there's a reason why the game is 30 FPS on consoles even with the SSD. I wonder what the framerate of the likes of GTA6 and maybe even Dragons Dogman 2 will be on consoles

 

[Team Andromeda]

Yeah but most of the bitching was from PC players. Obviously 60fps is better and 100fps+ even more so but I have been playing games since the SNES days and 30fps is fine albeit not ideal. I finished Crysis back in the day and that was lucky to hit a stable 30fps. Same with Half Life if I recall correctly.

You keep on saying since the SNES. I'll ask you again when was the time that consoles games totally outclassed 3D PC games and when consoles had better framerates?. Not that I've ever looked or think it's fair to compare a console to a PC. One is called a console and the other, a PC for a reason i.e they are not the same

 

[Zathalus]

You keep on saying since the SNES. I'll ask you again when was the time that consoles games totally outclassed 3D PC games and when consoles had better framerates?. Not that I've ever looked or think it's fair to compare a console to a PC. One is called a console and the other, a PC for a reason i.e they are not the same

I've never claimed that consoles ever outclassed PC games? Or had better framerates?

 

[dotnotbot]

Yeah but most of the bitching was from PC players. Obviously 60fps is better and 100fps+ even more so but I have been playing games since the SNES days and 30fps is fine albeit not ideal. I finished Crysis back in the day and that was lucky to hit a stable 30fps. Same with Half Life if I recall correctly.

30 FPS felt much better on CRT/plasma since they were impulse-driven displays, that's why no one would complain back then. It feels like ass on modern fast response sample-and-hold displays (LCD and OLED), especially with HDR and big size cause they're both the factors that amplify the stroboscopic effect, that's why it should be a thing of the past for home consoles at least (it's still fine on a small SDR screen like Switch). Or at least Pro consoles are needed.

 

[Team Andromeda]

I've never claimed that consoles ever outclassed PC games? Or had better framerates?

So The days of either console being impressive are behind us, was never really there at all if you had a top of range PC
PC gamers always had it better since the early 90's for 3D.

 

[Zathalus]

So The days of either console being impressive are behind us, was never really there at all if you had a top of range PC
PC gamers always had it better since the early 90's for 3D.

Impressive in terms of price/performance. For $500 at launch both the PS5 and XSX were impressive for what they were. They were more powerful then 90%+ PCs at the time. However anything with a 3070/2080ti or higher was more powerful on the PC side of things. Impressive doesn't mean the absolute best performer.

 

[Gudji]

Horizon FW doesn't push CPUs, neither did the 1st game. Both games are designed to run on the anemic AMD Jaguar CPU that the PS4 possesses at a 30fps framerate, of course the PS5 with it's massively more powerful AMD Zen 2 CPU can double the framerate the PS4's Jaguar can do on Horizon 2.

Starfield *is* heavy on the CPU as most sandbox/simulation games are. Why? Because the workloads sandbox/sims need to get done can only be done by the CPU not the GPU on top of that most of those workloads can't be scaled down because otherwise either the game or the game design breaks for example reducing physics complexity can break game interactions.

Both HZD and HFW are HEAVY on simulation despite being themepark style games don't make shit up please.

 

[GymWolf]

People should call that out too but if they start trying to talk about "the particle effects that have never been seen in a game except games from SE, what FF16 is doing is complex so only hitting 40fps in spots is a creative choice" then you would have what's happening here.

People called that out, the topic is full choke of people shitting on both modes.

 

[GigaBowser]

Mindbubbling how this games and TOTKS are out in the same year

Just when I thoughts I was done with Nintendos and Xbox

 

[Zathalus]

Both HZD and HFW are HEAVY on simulation despite being themepark style games don't make shit up please.

Are they? HFW does some impressive stuff with cloud simulation in the expansion, but both run perfectly fine on a standard PS4 as well. Heck an ancient 3770k can hold a stable 60 on HZD.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Impressive in terms of price/performance. For $500 at launch both the PS5 and XSX were impressive for what they were. They were more powerful then 90%+ PCs at the time. However anything with a 3070/2080ti or higher was more powerful on the PC side of things. Impressive doesn't mean the absolute best performer.

There's always been more powerful PC's than consoles right back to the 3D era on consoles. Doom was cut back to run on the PS1 and even on the wonder 60 FPS console that was meant to be the PS2.
Games like Max Payne, Deus Ex on the system pailed to their PC counterparts and the system couldn't even run Doom 3

But like I said PC and consoles are different and that's why they are not called the same and I've never seen it fair or sensible to compare both. Can I change the RAM, CPU, GPU in my consoles?

​

 

[Zathalus]

There's always been more powerful PC's than consoles right back to the 3D era on consoles. Doom was cut back to run on the PS1 and even on the wonder 60 FPS console that was meant to be the PS2.
Games like Max Payne, Deus Ex on the system pailed to their PC counterparts and the system couldn't even run Doom 3

But like I said PC and consoles are different and that's why they are not called the same and I've never seen it fair or sensible to compare both. Can I change the RAM, CPU, GPU in my consoles?

​

I'm not disagreeing with any of that. Just stated that on launch the XSX and PS5 were impressive, which they were. PCs will always be more powerful and offer greater hardware flexibility.

 

[Bernardougf]

Me on release enjoying Starfield in awe on my XSX, and not giving a fk about 30FPS:

everyone else apparently:

Yeah Luckily for xbox/bethesda their fans have thrown high standards out of the window long time ago. It make things a lot easier...

 

[Team Andromeda]

I'm not disagreeing with any of that. Just stated that on launch the XSX and PS5 were impressive, which they were. PCs will always be more powerful and offer greater hardware flexibility.

So why do people like you always feel the need to compare a console to a PC? If a console user could change and upgrade their RAM, GPU and CPU it be a fair and equal comparison, but it's not.
You can also talk of the SNES days but even back then, the PC had a better scope for 3D. I remember seeing EF 2000 on the PC in the shop and it blew away any 3D game on the SNES or Mega Drive by a massive margin

​

 

[hinch7]

30 FPS felt much better on CRT/plasma since they were impulse-driven displays, that's why no one would complain back then. It feels like ass on modern fast response sample-and-hold displays (LCD and OLED), especially with HDR and big size cause they're both the factors that amplify the stroboscopic effect, that's why it should be a thing of the past for home consoles at least (it's still fine on a small SDR screen like Switch). Or at least Pro consoles are needed.

There's also the reponse times and latency on CRT's which were nearly non existant. And when compared to LCD at the time; which were terrible in comparison. It was a horrible 'upgrade' for image quality. Which, to this day LCD's still can't keep up with CRT's in motion clarity and response times at lower refresh rates. And only gets the better when using ultra high refresh rates in conjunction with good implementation of motion blur reduction (BFI/BLS).

If you were to hook up old consoles and played it natively on LCD's these days it would be a bad experience. Granted we have OLED's now which has picked up a lot in recent years, especially in the PC space.

 

[Karppuuna]

Who the fuck cares if this game is 15, 25, or even 30fps. Im done whit this shit, like suck me and my CPU all you want man!.

 

[GigaBowser]

Persistent NPCs and game objects.
Sheer number of objects that actually interact with the world. Full physical interaction.
Complex base building.
Entire planet with all of the above.
Procedurally generating the actual planet on the fly when exploring it.
Large cities with hundred of NPCs that actually have AI and numerous quest lines.
Full dynamic weather simulation.
Position of celestial bodies and sunset/sunrise are still being calculated on each planet. It's not just a static skybox.
Global Illumination on this scale has a CPU cost as well.

No other game actually offers all of the above, the closest I can think of is Kingdom Come, Cyberpunk, and No Man's Sky but each lack in comparison.

Every games has theres own stuff thoughs you makes lists for

TOTK you can interactions every parts of the map way more physics interactivities with noes loading cept shrines and temples but Bethesdas games you gets stuck in lotsa places and the controls waaaaaaaaaay clunkier with jank glitch

Gonna be incredibubble yes I will become addicted and more fat but I haves a point

 

[owandeseis]

This is embellishing quite a lot. What does it even mean to have “full physical interactivity”? It’s not like you can literally transform every single object into whatever your heart desires.

Complex base building - many claim to find these aspects boring along with mining. Games like Hogwarts have various means of building, breeding, and crafting. Assasins creed you can build up your home base or pirate ship and what have you. Cyberpunk you get to build out your dwelling and vehicles.

Many open world games have big cities with lots of layered NPC side quests, the footage of Starfield shows cities that are about as populated as you see in other titles. Titles like RDR2 have extremely organic, emergent quests

This kinda explains what goes on with this game.

On games like Hogwarts you can craft, just not nearly as much as on Starfield, o Assasins Creed you can build your home, it's not nearly as complex as on Starfield tho, and on Cyberpunk you can build vehicles, it's also nowhere near as what you can do on Starfield.

Other games got NPC routines and quests, still far from what Bethesda games do.

And on some others you can interact with objects, veery far from what Starfield will offer tho.

This fucking game rofl

 

[Three]

You're a developer are you? How many worlds can one travel too in Hogwarts?

However many they decided to create. You've completely missed the point it seems. The number of worlds is irrelevant to framerate because it's just data on the drive and has a loading screen when needed. Just as having multiple entire games with completely different worlds on your console doesn't affect your framerate, they're just loaded when needed. Somebody trying to suggest the number of games affects your framerate would be pretty stupid no?

 

[meech]

The faces are a huge disappointment, not better than in the first Mass Effect, in the case of the main characters, actually,worse

 

[Bo_Hazem]

 

[Zathalus]

You indeed got a screenshot of John blinking. Not bad.

 

[Bojji]

Me on release enjoying Starfield in awe on my XSX, and not giving a fk about 30FPS:

I would cry like that if i was forced to play in 30fps on series x. Thankfully i also have pc and can overcome bullshit "developers visions" for their games.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Yeah Luckily for xbox/bethesda their fans have thrown high standards out of the window long time ago. It make things a lot easier...

There is literally a game demo out right now that is being praised to high heaven and touted as a game of the year contender and its sub 40 FPS a lot of the time in its 60FPS mode, dropping to below 1080p with no anisotropic filtering and you are here spouting this kind of crap? lmao!

 

[FireFly]

In terms of complexity that actually drives a performance consideration, I’m unconvinced that most of these systems actually limits Framerate. They just take forever to design and code in a way that is meaningful.

Ah, the argument from incredulity. I don't believe something therefore it must not be true. Who needs actual evidence when you have an argument that strong?

The point is that it takes CPU time to run procedural generation algorithms and to simulate real time GI and dynamic weather. And it also takes CPU time to simulate interactions with potentially large numbers of NPCs (New Atlantis being the biggest city Bethesda has made). How much CPU time depends on the complexity of the simulation, which we have no knowledge of.

Comparing to Cyberpunk, which has none of these systems and NPCs that literally disappear into thin air, is an exercise in futility. The number 1 complaint about Cyberpunk is that nothing persists and interactions have no effects on the world.

 

[Gudji]

Procedurally generated facial animations right there.

 

[Fake]

Stop with this crap notion.

No. Everyone with their own.

Believe in whatever you want. I don't.

Yeah Luckily for xbox/bethesda their fans have thrown high standards out of the window long time ago. It make things a lot easier...

Its absurd that their fans are falling into this bullshit.
What about giving players options?

 

[GymWolf]

There is literally a game demo out right now that is being praised to high heaven and touted as a game of the year contender and its sub 40 FPS a lot of the time in its 60FPS mode, dropping to below 1080p with no anisotropic filtering and you are here spouting this kind of crap? lmao!

Meh, everyone and their mother are calling out both shitty graphical modes in ff16 demo.

One is less stable than your average reeee member and the other has the most aggressive blur ever (and still lose frames)

 

[poodaddy]

Meh, everyone and their mother are calling out both shitty graphical modes in ff16 demo.

One is less stable than your average reeee member and the other has the most aggressive blur ever (and still lose frames)

I don't know bro, check out when I very fairly criticized the demo in the prologue thread and everyone jumped on me like I punted Baby Jesus. I actually was really positive, but I gave some fair constructive criticism and I was hated on pretty hard for it.

 

[GymWolf]

I don't know bro, check out when I very fairly criticized the demo in the prologue thread and everyone jumped on me like I punted Baby Jesus. I actually was really positive, but I gave some fair constructive criticism and I was hated on pretty hard for it.

Squaresoft fans are defensive, like all fanboys, nothing new under the sun, but a lot of people pointed out the game running like shit, even people like me that liked the demo a lot.

Saying that no one noticed that is utter bullshit.

You can pinpoint the usual people in that topic that are never gonna say anything negative about that game even if it hits them in their faces with a sledgehammer.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Squaresoft fans are defensive, like all fanboys, nothing new under the sun, but a lot of people pointed out the game running like shit, even people like me that liked the demo a lot.

Saying that no one noticed that is utter bullshit.

When I mentioned it was below 60 I got told it had slight drops and is locked 60 in combat, then theres evidence that its dropping into the low 40s outside of PS5 VRR range in combat and the Eikon fight is like 34FPS in its 60 FPS mode with pretty severe cuts.

You say anything negative about that game and you do get attacked. EVen though I loved the music, enjoy the standard combat so I will be getting it day one...but anyone accepting that game and acting like its OK then in here shitting up threads about Starfield is a joke.

 

[GymWolf]

When I mentioned it was below 60 I got told it had slight drops and is locked 60 in combat, then theres evidence that its dropping into the low 40s outside of PS5 VRR range in combat and the Eikon fight is like 34FPS in its 60 FPS mode with pretty severe cuts.

You say anything negative about that game and you do get attacked. EVen though I loved the music, enjoy the standard combat so I will be getting it day one...but anyone accepting that game and acting like its OK then in here shitting up threads about Starfield is a joke.

Getting attacked is just par for the course, but many people said the same thing in that topic, ignoring the problem my ass.

 

[thief183]

Now that I think about it, aren't Bethesda's RPG the only ones with "real" NPC in the game world? I mean NPC that don't despawn when you look away (also PIRAGNA BYTES GAMES)

 

[DenchDeckard]

Getting attacked is just par for the course, but many people said the same thing in that topic, ignoring the problem my ass.

I hope Square have 100 Percent sorted the game for launch because if not there are going to be a lot of users that look like idiots if the game launches in a similar state to the demo. Especially after this thread.

 

[GymWolf]

I hope Square have 100 Percent sorted the game for launch because if not there are going to be a lot of users that look like idiots if the game launches in a similar state to the demo. Especially after this thread.

It's a japanese game, i would keep expectations in check.

 

[Team Andromeda]

However many they decided to create. You've completely missed the point it seems. The number of worlds is irrelevant to framerate because it's just data on the drive and has a loading screen when needed. Just as having multiple entire games with completely different worlds on your console doesn't affect your framerate, they're just loaded when needed. Somebody trying to suggest the number of games affects your framerate would be pretty stupid no?

You're a developer as well now, are you? At a guess I would say there's a very valid technical reason why the team are going with 30 FPS on the consoles with their own engine.

 

[Three]

You're a developer as well now, are you? At a guess I would say there's a very valid technical reason why the team are going with 30 FPS on the consoles with their own engine.

Well yes, but that's beside the point. That valid reason isn't the number of planets. If you don't want to accept that when given logical reasons why it shouldn’t affect it, that's up to you.

 

[feynoob]

No. Everyone with their own.

Believe in whatever you want. I don't.

Because you have no clue what a next gen is.
We saw what happened with cyberpunk on old gens. That game is the definition of a next gen, because old systems can't handle it.

 

[Roxkis_ii]

Bullcrap.

I never remember last gen console fans saying Bloodborne, God of War, Last Of Us 2, Drakes 4, Spiderman, Ghost of Tsushima
and Witcher 3 were unplayable and broken because of 30 FPS on the console..

60% of the games released on Ps4 were 30 fps, so of course a lot of people aren't going to complain, because it was the norm back then. But now, currently 80% percent of the games released on Ps5 have a proformance mode. Now 60 fps is the standard.

Also, lots of people did complain about bloodborn proformance.

 

[Snake29]

With any single item I mean everything, for example you can take a potion and drop it in the ground, it will be affected by physics and where it lands (roll or whatever) will stay forever.

For the example you said, star citizen is impressive but items are a just a string in the menu. Never tried Ark so not gonna comment on it, in Minecraft the items you drop in the world will stay there for more or less 2 minutes, you can manage to not male them despawn by leaving the game chunk, but as soon as you get there again the despawn counter will restart. Also the item you drop are not effected by physics.

Items in Star Citizen are fully physicialized and persistant. You can drop a bottle of water or handgun on a rock next to a tree or whatever. If you come back a year later or more, those items will still be there if not someone found it. Not only that, they will also bring the current wear and tear system for all these physicialized items.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Because you have no clue what a next gen is.
We saw what happened with cyberpunk on old gens. That game is the definition of a next gen, because old systems can't handle it.

I wonder how this game would run on a PS4 or PS4 pro.