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Doctor Who 50th Anniversary |OT| Splendid Chap, All Of Them

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A

APZonerunner

Member
Savitar said:
If there was one potential plot point that was faulty it had to do with the sonics, they were doing a calculation for hundreds of years. Yet Eleven actually fried the tenth's sonic early in his adventures and then got his new one. So it wasn't just a new casing as Hurt says unless the sonics always link up with the Tardis to keep information up to date.
Click to expand...

The actual software it runs is the same, though, that's the point, I guess. They do use the word software. The Tenth Doctor breaks/destroys his Sonic a couple of times, too, after all. The Eleventh loses at least one (to the shark in A Christmas Carol), too.
 
I

Ithil

Member
Savitar said:
If there was one potential plot point that was faulty it had to do with the sonics, they were doing a calculation for hundreds of years. Yet Eleven actually fried the tenth's sonic early in his adventures and then got his new one. So it wasn't just a new casing as Hurt says unless the sonics always link up with the Tardis to keep information up to date.
Click to expand...

It's not that they're the same screwdriver, it's the same software, different casing, and the calculations were a subroutine this whole time.
 
T

Trike

Member
So if Tom Baker was a future doctor, then why is the Doctor so certain he will die forever on Trenzalore?

Also I understood why the Sonic Screwdriver thing would have worked, but that was getting kind of close to Bill & Ted level of time travel.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
Trike said:
So if Tom Baker was a future doctor, then why is the Doctor so certain he will die forever on Trenzalore?
Click to expand...

Because he's been there and seen the evidence.

That's the trick of the Christmas Special, I'm pretty sure. Answering the question you just asked. How does the Doctor die on Trenzalore and yet still become not just Peter Capaldi, but an incarnation that can cycle through preceding Doctors?
 
P

peanutbutterlatte

Member
Trike said:
So if Tom Baker was a future doctor, then why is the Doctor so certain he will die forever on Trenzalore?

Also I understood why the Sonic Screwdriver thing would have worked, but that was getting kind of close to Bill & Ted level of time travel.
Click to expand...

Well, for one he has no idea how far in his personal future Trenzalore is. I mean we didn't see any future Doctors in his timestream, but that's for obvious reasons. Also, the Tom Baker scene could well be letting Matt Smith know that he is going to live for a while yet, he looks very surprised when Baker II tells him he has "lots to do". So who knows. Hopefully Christmas will iron out these creases. Or create several more. Probably the latter.
 
C

CorvoSol

Member
I think one of the best parts of this episode was hearing War go "What is it that makes you both so afraid of growing up?" then Ten and Eleven glare and he goes, "That look, if I didn't know any better, I'd call that dread."

That entire scene was great, but that in particular made it. I know I've said it already, but Hurt really nailed his part.
 
I

Ithil

Member
CorvoSol said:
I think one of the best parts of this episode was hearing War go "What is it that makes you both so afraid of growing up?" then Ten and Eleven glare and he goes, "That look, if I didn't know any better, I'd call that dread."

That entire scene was great, but that in particular made it. I know I've said it already, but Hurt really nailed his part.
Click to expand...

It's also a needed comment on why Ten and Eleven are more "wacky" than the old series Doctors tended to be. Not that the likes of Four were exactly normal, but Ten/Eleven were definitely more immature and goofy in the mannerisms.
So now we know why post-War Doctor regenerations tend towards that.
 
R

ramyeon

Member
Ithil said:
It's not that they're the same screwdriver, it's the same software, different casing, and the calculations were a subroutine this whole time.
Click to expand...
That whole scene is also just foreshadowing for the end of the special. The sonic being "same software, different case" referring to the Doctor in the end scenes where they come up with the alternative plan to save Gallifrey. Pretty neat foreshadowing really.
 
S

SpacePirate Ridley

Member
Snytbaggen said:
I took some screencaps from the ending shots



The quality isn't the best, but I did what I could. The top one is my new phone background.
Click to expand...

I hope someone on the internet does a better photoshop effect with the heads with this shot, even if they need to do 3d models of the doctors faces to accomplish it.
The one whi does it will have my eternal gratitude and I will forever have it as my wallpaper.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
I mean, if you want, you can read Hurt's regeneration as the VERY FIRST bit of the Doctor essentially thumbing his nose at Hurt's incarnation. Yeah, it's a throaway joke - "I hope the ears are a little less prominent" - but every doctor after Hurt is, in multiple ways, trying to basically stick it to Hurt. "Don't want big ears? Guess what. I'll grow big ears. I'll be goofier than normal. I'll be young, and I'll be outlandish and really dramatic, and I'll just keep getting younger and more dramatic the further on I go because you, and what you did, is repellent."

Or yeah, it's just a throwaway joke.

Either read is valid.
 
D

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
Hot Coldman said:
Still can't believe Capaldi actually showed up.

Hell, I wonder when exactly they even filmed that.
Click to expand...

Could have been something from his old shows. We don't know if that was Capaldi's hand or not throwing the switch on the TARDIS. They could have sent a guy with a camera to his house to get a nice close up of his face.
 
M

mclem

Member
BrokenFiction said:
I'd love to get into the Big Finish audio dramas, but I get confused on where to start. There's so many of them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Doctor_Who_audio_plays_by_Big_Finish

This list is just massive. I can't even.
Click to expand...

They do have a 'where to start' guide on the website, but the easy answer is: McGann. Either from Storm Warning (Old Who style, serialised, companions start with Charley) or from Blood of the Daleks (New Who style, standalone episodes, companions start with Lucie).

Quick Mustard said:
I would fucking love to buy every single one in a big, one off, box set extravaganza.

Imagine the size of the thing, and the cost.

It would have to come in a TARDIS shaped box, a real, life sized one.
Click to expand...

That's the problem I have with Big Finish, really. It's a bit too expensive for the completist, The main interactions I've had with them have been through the episodes broadcast on what was BBC7 (and is now Radio 4Xtra)
 
L

Lazlo Woodbine

Member
Nicktendo86 said:
That front shot is fucking awful, can litteraly see where they have pasted the heads on other bodies. Looks so, so bad.
Click to expand...
It really took me out of the momment when I saw it in the cinema. McGann and Hartnell's are probably the worst offenders.

@General feelings on the 50th: Strangely find myself identifying with Kuwabara the most, out of everyone in this thread. It was a mixed bag of some of the best of Who and the worst of Who all in one episode...so perhaps it was, in some ways, a fitting tribiute.

John Hurt felt wasted on the material though. I totally get the "emo doctor" comments but I felt like retconning the full ramafications of the time war really shits over T Davies best contribution to the Doctors character.

Also the actual Time War battle itself was a bit of a let down, it's the kind of thing I don't think a BBC budget could ever really do justice. I mean, we're talking about two of the universe's oldest and most formiddible races battling it out and all it comes down to, ultimately, is laser guns and flying saucers (kind of wish they'd ditch that part of the Dalek design).

@The Five(ish) Doctors was just fantastic. Glad to see the others get a look-in after the comments Baker had made.
 
B

Blader

Member
They've already filmed the Smith -> Capaldi regeneration, haven't they? They could have shot his 50th cameo at the same time as that.
 
M

mclem

Member
Blader said:
The implication is that he's a future, post-Capaldi incarnation of the Doctor that chose to regenerate into Baker again (i.e. xxth Doctor using the Fourth Doctor's face) and has retired to become the museum's curator.
Click to expand...

I have now decided to decree that the Hurndall Doctor was in fact a future Doctor, slightly confused about his own identity, aiming for Hartnell but missing slightly.
 
A

ag-my001

Member
fireside said:
I didn't really think the special started that well though. I think that's a problem Moffat is starting to have, he can never seem to have a good intro to the stories he tells anymore. Once they get to the museum it's very good, but everything before that is just dumb. I mean, a helicopter lifting the TARDIS? Why?? The in-episode explanation was stupid—"We didn't think you were in it". Well, if you didn't think he was in it, what was the point! Were you just going to leave the Doctor stranded in the middle of nowhere with no way to get the the museum? Just a stupid way to have Eleven hang off the TARDIS.

The shapeshifter plot was okay, it had an interesting ending, but I didn't get the "Shhh" one of the assistants made to the other when she handed her clone her inhaler. It seemed like something important would happen after that, but that plot thread was never returned to.

.
Click to expand...
They weren't supposed to know which one was the human. The human assistant had the inhaler with her from earlier. Even though they figured it out, they kept quiet and kept the negotiations on track.
 
P

paradox121

Member
BobbyRoberts said:
I mean, if you want, you can read Hurt's regeneration as the VERY FIRST bit of the Doctor essentially thumbing his nose at Hurt's incarnation. Yeah, it's a throaway joke - "I hope the ears are a little less prominent" - but every doctor after Hurt is, in multiple ways, trying to basically stick it to Hurt. "Don't want big ears? Guess what. I'll grow big ears. I'll be goofier than normal. I'll be young, and I'll be outlandish and really dramatic, and I'll just keep getting younger and more dramatic the further on I go because you, and what you did, is repellent."

Or yeah, it's just a throwaway joke.

Either read is valid.
Click to expand...

Equally why 11 turns into the older Capaldi.

Really curious now to see if there is indeed a noticeable tonal shift out of the manic, running around, talking really fast stuff.
 
Randy Lanzarote

Randy Lanzarote

Member
Really enjoyed the 50th, Capaldi turning up was a great moment that surprised me, and Baker at the end was a shameless nostalgia trip but such a lovely touch.

Roll on Xmas Special to see if Moffatt really will tie up all those loose ends Trenzalore.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
paradox121 said:
Equally why 11 turns into the older Capaldi.

Really curious now to see if there is indeed a noticeable tonal shift out of the manic, running around, talking really fast stuff.
Click to expand...

Gotta imagine it'll be addressed somewhat. Although it's not like Moffatt doesn't just automatically tend towards running around and talking fast. The shows of his I've seen (Sherlock, Coupliing) have quite a bit of that. I think that's just how he writes, really.

But an older guy without all that guilt yoked to his shoulders should definitely act a little different to the younger guys who are trying to get out from under their biggest sin.
 
O

odiin

My Apartment, or the 120 Screenings of Salo
Hot Coldman said:
Still can't believe Capaldi actually showed up.

Hell, I wonder when exactly they even filmed that.
Click to expand...

You can't see it real well for obvious reasons, but I'd bet that Capaldi is just wearing Smith's costume in that scene. It was probably filmed during the Christmas special. Hell for all we know it could be lifted directly FROM the Christmas special.
 
M

Metalmarc

Member
image.jpg


image.jpg


image.jpg


Thought these prints from big chiefs studios were neat, they were available at londons excel event this weekend, and will be available to buy online i think later on, from here

https://www.bigchiefstudios.co.uk/coming-soon-all-new-dynamix-art-collections/
 
T

Trike

Member
BobbyRoberts said:
Because he's been there and seen the evidence.

That's the trick of the Christmas Special, I'm pretty sure. Answering the question you just asked. How does the Doctor die on Trenzalore and yet still become not just Peter Capaldi, but an incarnation that can cycle through preceding Doctors?
Click to expand...

But he has also seen two future Doctors, Capaldi & Baker, which is also evidence that clearly survives.

MasterBalls said:
Well, for one he has no idea how far in his personal future Trenzalore is. I mean we didn't see any future Doctors in his timestream, but that's for obvious reasons. Also, the Tom Baker scene could well be letting Matt Smith know that he is going to live for a while yet, he looks very surprised when Baker II tells him he has "lots to do". So who knows. Hopefully Christmas will iron out these creases. Or create several more. Probably the latter.
Click to expand...

But he knows it will happen to him due to the "fall of the 11th" line.

Not that I don't have faith that Moffat could wrap up a story that he started. Probably will involve clones. Or Zygon 11th Doctor and Tardis taking their place as a thank you for the new alliance.
 
F

fireside

Member
ag-my001 said:
They weren't supposed to know which one was the human. The human assistant had the inhaler with her from earlier. Even though they figured it out, they kept quiet and kept the negotiations on track.
Click to expand...

I thought about that, but I don't think it makes sense. The two characters shouldn't have known that it was the human who had the inhaler, as the Doctors made it so no one could remember whether they were human or Zygon. The audience knows that the inhaler belonged to the human, but they shouldn't.
 
D

Dimefan3

Member
fireside said:
I thought about that, but I don't think it makes sense. The two characters shouldn't have known that it was the human who had the inhaler, as the Doctors made it so no one could remember whether they were human or Zygon. The audience knows that the inhaler belonged to the human, but they shouldn't.
Click to expand...

Did I miss something, or did that part of the story never get resolved? (Or are Kate and the Zygons still down there negotiating?)
 
M

mclem

Member
fireside said:
The shapeshifter plot was okay, it had an interesting ending, but I didn't get the "Shhh" one of the assistants made to the other when she handed her clone her inhaler. It seemed like something important would happen after that, but that plot thread was never returned to.
Click to expand...

That in itself was the important bit. It boiled down to "You know, with this, we've got enough information to know which of us is Zygon and which of us is human. But you know what? It's better for each of us if we don't let on. I'm not going to blab. Are you? Nope? Good."
 
T

Trike

Member
fireside said:
I thought about that, but I don't think it makes sense. The two characters shouldn't have known that it was the human who had the inhaler, as the Doctors made it so no one could remember whether they were human or Zygon. The audience knows that the inhaler belonged to the human, but they shouldn't.
Click to expand...

They didn't lose all of their memories, they just didn't know who was who. I imagine they both have a shared knowledge due to the confusion. But they both remembered when the Zygon took the inhaler. That is why they knew. But at the same time you would think that they all had their own personal items and such in their pockets.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
Trike said:
But he has also seen two future Doctors, Capaldi & Baker, which is also evidence that clearly survives.
Click to expand...

Again - that's the trick of the Christmas Special, isn't it. Your question is basically the fuel for the story's engine. He knows he dies at Trenzalore. But now he knows there are at least 2 more regenerations after his death. So how does THAT work?

We're probably getting an hourlong answer to that in a month.
 
O

odiin

My Apartment, or the 120 Screenings of Salo
One thing that I've been thinking about is that this is probably the first time in Nu-Who where I haven't found the UNIT people completely bland. Which is disappointing because I'm a huge fan of the Pertwee era They're no Brigadier/Yates/Benton but I would be happy to see more of Lady Brigadier/Osgood//Malcolm (that was his name, right?) in the future. As long as they get rid of those awful black and red outfits.
 
D

DiipuSurotu

Banned
ag-my001 said:
They weren't supposed to know which one was the human. The human assistant had the inhaler with her from earlier. Even though they figured it out, they kept quiet and kept the negotiations on track.
Click to expand...

Actually, the Zygon had the inhaler. It handing it over to the real human shows that it at least is willing to come up with the peace treaty.
 
M

mclem

Member
DiipuSurotu said:
Actually, the Zygon had the inhaler. It handing it over to the real human shows that it at least is willing to come up with the peace treaty.
Click to expand...

I think Human-Osgood took it back after knocking Zygon-Osgood off her feet.


Ah, I see the Silurians now. There's a hint of green when I look closely; from a distance they looked grey, and I was trying to think of something with an entirely metal face. Still don't buy The Master. That hair's absurd. Heck, it looks a bit more like The Editor.
 
A

APZonerunner

Member
Hot Coldman said:
Still can't believe Capaldi actually showed up.

Hell, I wonder when exactly they even filmed that.
Click to expand...

Christmas, including the regeneration, was in the bag a month before this was due out, so pretty easily I should think. They probably did it the same day. He's probably in Matt's clothes, since he's yet to pick his own! Because Series 8 isn't going to start until Autumn 2014 people forget how tight Who's schedule usually is, really... like Smith was already filming Time of Angels & The Eleventh Hour 2 months before The End of Time broadcast!
 
H

Hot Coldman

Banned
APZonerunner said:
Christmas, including the regeneration, was in the bag a month before this was due out, so pretty easily I should think. They probably did it the same day. He's probably in Matt's clothes, since he's yet to pick his own!
Click to expand...

Probably right, I forgot Matt and Jenna had been telling everyone Capaldi's filmed his first scene.
Well, second scene.
 
M

mclem

Member
Quick Mustard said:
According to GB, we find out the Title to the Christmas Episode on Tuesday.
Click to expand...

If I was The Powers That Be, I'd make it a two-parter. First part, "Silent Night", ending with the regeneration; second part, "Twelfth Night", being Capaldi's first.

I'm not The Powers That Be, but my gut says it'll be one of those two.
 
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