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Donkey Kong Country Returns |OT| Retro Studios Has Done It Again!
- Thread starter Tricky I Shadow
- Start date
Every complaint about it being "poorly written" is that people don't agree with his reasons - that is to say, they don't think his reasons are worth mentioning. Reviews are opinions, and so too are the ways in which reviews are written. If he was writing an objective piece, then maybe these complaints would have merit!Vanille said:
I find it amusing that you're telling me to relax, though, as if I broke a keyboard while writing my last post. I ain't give no fucks, I just be typin'. :3
But nevermind all that.
I like bananas.
Hobbun said:
Yeah. And in terms of difficulty, Link to the Past and Link's Awakening are absolutely piss-easy compared to Wind Waker and Twilight Princess. I can fly through them within a few hours without dying once.
I repeatedly die in some sections of TP and WW over and over and over again. :lol
_Alkaline_
Member
Tricky I Shadow said:
Who gives a shit? They're just someone's scores. Nothing to care about.
udivision said:
Zelda is as much of a 2D/3D platformer as Fire Emblem, which means it isn't one at all, so I don't know where you're getting at. I do agree that Zelda has been too easy since MM, though (even if TP was a slight improvement over WW in this area).
But you were talking about platformers, so:
I haven't played it yet but many people said Yoshi's Island DS was really hard. Way harder than the original game.
NSMBW is the hardest SMB game after SMB2J. I can't see how you wouldn't agree with that.
Wario Land Shake It was hard if you were going for 100%. It was pretty easy otherwise, but just beating the last boss wasn't the point of the game.
Kirby was never hard. Even if Epic Yarn was the easiest of them all, none of the games in the series were actually hard to begin with, so I don't think there's much of a discussion here.
DKCR seems to be pretty hard, going by reviews.
I do find SMG 1 and 2 easier than M64 and Sunshine, but to me at least this is mainly due to the controls and camera in the older games. I've always had trouble controlling Mario in them until Galaxy 1 came along and perfected both controls and camera. As a result I don't find 3D Mario that hard anymore. Though, admitedtly, Sunshine is a harder game by design than either Galaxy. It's also not that good, but that's for another topic.
If you tried 100%ing either Galaxies (though especially the second game) I doubt you'll complaint much about lack of challenge.
So your only points are stuff like Kirby and random games like Super Princess Peach or Starfy? Yeah, these are all easy, but they were always meant to be so I don't think you can hold that against them. What are these easy platformers you are complaining about?
ShockingAlberto
Member
obj--
It'd be nice to play a difficult game, but I don't think Nintendo makes those anymore.
Sorry for bringing this up again after you've been proved wrong a few times already but... Hello, Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn!?
I'll revise my testimony then:
Nintendo does not make hard platformers (2D/3D) any more.
Zeldas from OoT on aren't particularly challenging.
These are not complaints.
I revised my testimony yet again, your Honor.
Sweeeeeet.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
^Nice. :lol
Fantasy Final
Member
:lol :lol
Rafaelcsa said:
Uh... I never said Zelda was a 2D/3D platformer. I was referring to Mario games. I mentioned Zelda by name because I didn't want to say Nintendo didn't make hard "Action Adventure RPG" games...
I beat the original SMB: Lost Levels for the first time over the summer, which is also when I beat SMG. I realized one had a lot more challenging sections than the other, for whatever reason. I realized playing SMB that SMW for SNES was a cakewalk compared to it. (I grew up on SMW so I think of it as the default Mario platformer) I did 100% SMG1, and I would've done the same for SMG2 but my nunchuck is broken.
I haven't played NSMBWii, so I can't say anything about that. I've played a YI: DS on a friends DS, but not extensively and I haven't played Shake it.
I thought I made it pretty clear that I wasn't complaining.
Sgt.Pepper
Banned
Kirby has never been about difficulty, anyone saying otherwise is wrong.
Mario games have always been easy in the begging, getting harder as you proceed. Exception is NSWB which I didn't find it hard at all, and Sunshine was relatively hard, the blue coins were annoying, I can't tell if they were good or bad design.
SMG 1/2 offer moderate challenge if you try to go 100%, some levels standing out (Purple Comet Melty Molten and Luigi's Purple Coins in the first and some stars in the last world in the sequel). NSMBWii is definitely the hardest Mario after, and is very recent.
Yoshi's Island DS was harder than the first and DK:JB had some nice challenges if you went to collect all the gold crowns.
All of them were enjoyable for my level of skill, so I don't see this complain about easy platformers.
Mario games have always been easy in the begging, getting harder as you proceed. Exception is NSWB which I didn't find it hard at all, and Sunshine was relatively hard, the blue coins were annoying, I can't tell if they were good or bad design.
SMG 1/2 offer moderate challenge if you try to go 100%, some levels standing out (Purple Comet Melty Molten and Luigi's Purple Coins in the first and some stars in the last world in the sequel). NSMBWii is definitely the hardest Mario after, and is very recent.
Yoshi's Island DS was harder than the first and DK:JB had some nice challenges if you went to collect all the gold crowns.
All of them were enjoyable for my level of skill, so I don't see this complain about easy platformers.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Bravo.ShockingAlberto said:
...bravo.
Sgt.Pepper
Banned
Relax. When I was making the reply I couldn't see yours.udivision said:
BishopLamont
Banned
These are not complaints....I'm just complaining.
Anyway, NSMBW was hard to me and Mario was my childhood friend.
Anyway, NSMBW was hard to me and Mario was my childhood friend.
Allan Holdsworth
Member
udivision said:
True if you got for minimum completition, completely false if you got for 100%.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
I give ShockingAlberto an 8.5 out of 10.
richisawesome said:
What the fuck nuts.
Never played Link's Awakening yet, but I finally played Link to the Past for the first time this year, and it shit on my face. SHIT ON MY FACE. I beat Twilight Princess the first time through without dying once back in 2006. LTTP a million times harder than TP and WW combined.
Nintendo games nowadays are definitely easier than they used to be, but I think it's mostly because of more lives/lack of having to redo levels. Think of playing through Super Mario Bros 3, with the fear of having to play though 3 or 4 hard ass levels all over again if you lost all your lives. That fear is gone in NSMB, and other recent Nintendo games.
Let me help udivision out here:
Nintendo often makes easy games. They've clearly acquired a philosophy where their games are designed to be uniform in difficulty and accessible to everyone. The consequence is that many of their games do not provide the challenge that gamers such as us would like. There is the occasional exception, but Nintendo has certainly reconfigured its approach to challenge in its video games over the last few generations.
We also always get a statement from Nintendo saying that their new release, be it Mario or Zelda, is going to be particularly hard. This normally turns out to be untrue.
That said, I do believe that DKCR is going to be hard. And that excites me a whole lot. Bring on the frustration, Retro. Having to really focus makes games far more rewarding and engaging.
Nintendo often makes easy games. They've clearly acquired a philosophy where their games are designed to be uniform in difficulty and accessible to everyone. The consequence is that many of their games do not provide the challenge that gamers such as us would like. There is the occasional exception, but Nintendo has certainly reconfigured its approach to challenge in its video games over the last few generations.
We also always get a statement from Nintendo saying that their new release, be it Mario or Zelda, is going to be particularly hard. This normally turns out to be untrue.
That said, I do believe that DKCR is going to be hard. And that excites me a whole lot. Bring on the frustration, Retro. Having to really focus makes games far more rewarding and engaging.
manueldelalas
Time Traveler
So you basically have not played the latest Mario games or any of the games Nintendo have released. Good to know.Socreges said:
I can see some truth to this statement in the following games: NSMB DS, Zelda WW, Zelda TP, Zelda PH and Zelda ST. That's it, it's mainly a Zelda problem IMO.
I remember a time when Nintendo made a study about the percentage of players that finished OOT (and had OOT obviously). If I recall correctly, only 40% of people that bought OOT finished it, so they made the worst decision in Zelda history, and made the game easier, and that's probably why Zelda games aren't now what they used to be.
But that statement is simply untrue in every other big Nintendo franchises, be it Advance Wars, Fire Emblem, Metroid, S&P, and the other franchises.
Unless you are referring to Mario Party, Wii Fit, Wii Sports, Nintendogs or games like those, which the point of the whole game is not to test your reflexes or being difficult.
Pokemon is something in the middle. It's an easy game if you play it to win the PK league, but incredibly hard to complete.
The other part of your statement is also untrue. Uniform difficulty? Talk about being wrong, if there is one thing Nintendo games don't have is that; what they do have are incredibly good tutorials and very easy first stages so you can understand the logic behind the games; but generally in their games (except for Zelda (quarter of a heart bullshit)) the difficulty goes up in a really great way.
manueldelalas
Time Traveler
Oh come on! Oracle games weren't hard!, they had standard Zelda difficulty.Platy said:
If you want some hard Zelda, play the awesome Zelda 2, even Zelda 1 was more difficult.
manueldelalas
Time Traveler
OK, the whole argument that Nintendo games are easier is absolutely bullshit, it means that you have only:
- Played the latest Zelda games
or
- Not played any of the latest Nintendo games and are just here trolling.
Having infinite lives does not mean that the game is easier, it only means that it punishes you less than before. I can understand that in NES games and in some old games you could die and would have to start all over; and in some really rare cases it made the game better (probably because they where incredibly short games, so starting over wasn't as much a punishment as it is today, imagine having to go through all those unskipable cut-scenes and shitty unskipable tutorials some games have today).
I don't see Metroid Prime being more or less difficult than Super Metroid. Some other sequels are easier only because the controls are way superior (see Metroid-Super Metroid, Zelda 1-LTTP, Famicom Wars-Advance Wars, etc).
So yeah, the whole argument is invalid. The only true thing is that it's almost impossible to die in Zelda WW (except in the Final boss if you don't know what to do) and NSMB DS was really easy because it was IMO an incomplete game, which should have had a few more worlds.
- Played the latest Zelda games
or
- Not played any of the latest Nintendo games and are just here trolling.
Having infinite lives does not mean that the game is easier, it only means that it punishes you less than before. I can understand that in NES games and in some old games you could die and would have to start all over; and in some really rare cases it made the game better (probably because they where incredibly short games, so starting over wasn't as much a punishment as it is today, imagine having to go through all those unskipable cut-scenes and shitty unskipable tutorials some games have today).
I don't see Metroid Prime being more or less difficult than Super Metroid. Some other sequels are easier only because the controls are way superior (see Metroid-Super Metroid, Zelda 1-LTTP, Famicom Wars-Advance Wars, etc).
So yeah, the whole argument is invalid. The only true thing is that it's almost impossible to die in Zelda WW (except in the Final boss if you don't know what to do) and NSMB DS was really easy because it was IMO an incomplete game, which should have had a few more worlds.
Nintendo has always been about uniform difficulty. They never "acquired" it. All of the games they put out with a hard mode option come from second or overseen third party developers, like Metroid Prime.
If you want to really compare the difficulties, all of these games are up on the VC right now! Zelda 1 only costs you 5 bucks. And if you can beat it quickly without dying, for half of you that's just because you played the shit out of it when you were younger and actually kept your regular and muscle memory somehow.
If you want to really compare the difficulties, all of these games are up on the VC right now! Zelda 1 only costs you 5 bucks. And if you can beat it quickly without dying, for half of you that's just because you played the shit out of it when you were younger and actually kept your regular and muscle memory somehow.
evilromero
Member
Metroid Prime 3 on Hyper mode was fucking bullshit. One of the hardest and most stressful experiences I've encountered in a game. I beat it but vowed to never play the game on that difficulty ever again.
I agree with this. Until this week my only experience with NSMBW has been 4 player co-op. And the game was insanely hard. Now that I own my own copy of the game and can play it solo, I beat the first three worlds in one sitting and it took the same amount of times as beating two worlds in co-op.JaseC said:
Shikamaru Ninja
任天å ã® å¿è
I think it is a bit misguided to call a game like Zelda easy. If we are talking about the action-portion, then yeah it isn't a game where you are going to die often or meet frustrating challenges. But the summation of the game is really traversing the dungeons no? And the dungeons and puzzles are really the star of the show. Ultimately, it is the adventure portion of Zelda is really the challenging part, not the action. Hopefully both elements will be balanced.