Dragoon En Regalia
Member
I hear Brutal Doom: Sperglord Edition's the preferred edit for some players disgruntled with Sergeant Mark's original. None of this matters since I'll probably be trying out GMOTA soon.
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DOOM Franchise Community Thread: That's one doomed space marine!
- Thread starter Raptomex
- Start date
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
Disgruntled how? I didn't know people had a problem with it.
people usually have a problem with Sargeant Mark
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
It's a long story. I remember reading that Mark loves Habitat from Evilution, which is probably unjustifiable.
Mount Pain rocks. I originally predicted that I'd love Mustaine's and Seiben's maps the most, but O'Brien's given the latter dude some competition (Open Season and Stronghold are still tough to beat). Very solid stuff overall; the lefthand tunnels are kind of boring to run through with a rad suit on, but they end in this vertical diamond of a room that's full of nasty mooks (the final closet opens up to reveal a legion of Revenants, which makes for crazy infighting). The major disappointment I have with this map is that it's much easier than I've come to expect, and that the big landscape reveal feels underutilized in regards to enemy encounters. But the architecture is outstanding, a definite highlight of the IWAD, and there's a constant stream of action bolstered by the highest enemy count in the whole pack. This is to Evilution what Mt. Erebus is to Doom!
Heck's a cool map done by Milo Casali, not as interesting as Mount Pain but equally challenging and utilizing a more centralized plan. There's no reason to give me two megaspheres that easily, though—this map's not that difficult, not like even the first map in Plutonia. And the secrets simply are not secret, which has been an encouraging trend in this last third of the map pack. I'm given plenty of energy cells to abuse big crowds with my BFG at it is, will any of it matter the minute I get instagib'd by some random crap spewing out? (Which doesn't actually happen in Heck).
Mount Pain rocks. I originally predicted that I'd love Mustaine's and Seiben's maps the most, but O'Brien's given the latter dude some competition (Open Season and Stronghold are still tough to beat). Very solid stuff overall; the lefthand tunnels are kind of boring to run through with a rad suit on, but they end in this vertical diamond of a room that's full of nasty mooks (the final closet opens up to reveal a legion of Revenants, which makes for crazy infighting). The major disappointment I have with this map is that it's much easier than I've come to expect, and that the big landscape reveal feels underutilized in regards to enemy encounters. But the architecture is outstanding, a definite highlight of the IWAD, and there's a constant stream of action bolstered by the highest enemy count in the whole pack. This is to Evilution what Mt. Erebus is to Doom!
Heck's a cool map done by Milo Casali, not as interesting as Mount Pain but equally challenging and utilizing a more centralized plan. There's no reason to give me two megaspheres that easily, though—this map's not that difficult, not like even the first map in Plutonia. And the secrets simply are not secret, which has been an encouraging trend in this last third of the map pack. I'm given plenty of energy cells to abuse big crowds with my BFG at it is, will any of it matter the minute I get instagib'd by some random crap spewing out? (Which doesn't actually happen in Heck).
KittenMaster
Member
Interesting. I am guessing forum drama?
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
Yup. I've heard horror stories and bickering over at the /vr/ generals...
Alright guys, no kidding, I have finished Evilution (not counting the secret maps...I know, I'll go load them later). These last two main maps, both coming from Seiben, are pretty good if not disappointing after the last batch. River Styx is definitely more memorable than Ballistyx, mostly because I didn't expect the lava to not hurt me. This is one of Evilution's biggest annoyances: I'm not going to risk trying every stupid thing that comes into my head, especially if lava and nukage are supposed to hurt my health and armor. Except each map featuring these elements seems to have a different idea of how they actually work! This map, for example, would be a lot more interesting if floor damage was toggled on, and it sure seems like it's lacking that necessary element of challenge. There's some great visuals on display, sure, but the map ends pretty quickly and feels like a shoe-in handled by Seiben after Team TNT heard back from Romero.
Last Call's sort of the same thing, but finally challenging to some degree. Like the last map, there's a maze of squares the player has to traverse through, this time with a ruthless telefrag lying in wait for those who don't read the torch pattern in the opening hall (which is hard to miss, I'll say). Also, props to Seiben for somehow making a Cyberdemon very unthreatening...poor guy can't shoot at me when he thinks he's gotta stay at the top of the balcony behind a wall and pillars. What annoys me a lot about this map are the peekaboo fight-and-flight I had with the Revenant/Arachnotron trap, which made me run for cover because there's too many projectiles to account for, and the final boss. It's a variation on the Icon of Sin where the sweet spot's been moved to right below the entrance normally leading to Romero's head; the player has absolutely no idea that this is the case. I expected either several Cyberdemons, a new boss or simply the old Doom II boss with a different arena style, but here I am and the game's being obscure! Oh well. Both maps feel like rush jobs, but they still have some of the Seiben magic.
This really says something about Evilution as a whole. Each of its thirds have their fair share of problems: that one map no one likes (Prison, Steel Works, Habitat), the many that are divisive, and the few that stand up to scrutiny and feel really fun to play through and appreciate today. I guess it was the more ambitious megawad to have been selected over Memento Mori I/II for canonization (maybe TNT simply had better contacts!), but this sprawling, adventurous map pack is uneven for better or worse. Plutonia's likely going to be consistent with the cost of familiarity, though I've seen enough from the Casalis to know that I'm in good hands (Mill's not that bad, just mediocre). One complaint I see often is that the new music and textures suckthey don't. Some of the new tracks are great, some aren't, but I certainly like the added textures, even though they stand out from the official set. Whatever the case, I've got more WADs to play and mods to try...so yeah.
Alright guys, no kidding, I have finished Evilution (not counting the secret maps...I know, I'll go load them later). These last two main maps, both coming from Seiben, are pretty good if not disappointing after the last batch. River Styx is definitely more memorable than Ballistyx, mostly because I didn't expect the lava to not hurt me. This is one of Evilution's biggest annoyances: I'm not going to risk trying every stupid thing that comes into my head, especially if lava and nukage are supposed to hurt my health and armor. Except each map featuring these elements seems to have a different idea of how they actually work! This map, for example, would be a lot more interesting if floor damage was toggled on, and it sure seems like it's lacking that necessary element of challenge. There's some great visuals on display, sure, but the map ends pretty quickly and feels like a shoe-in handled by Seiben after Team TNT heard back from Romero.
Last Call's sort of the same thing, but finally challenging to some degree. Like the last map, there's a maze of squares the player has to traverse through, this time with a ruthless telefrag lying in wait for those who don't read the torch pattern in the opening hall (which is hard to miss, I'll say). Also, props to Seiben for somehow making a Cyberdemon very unthreatening...poor guy can't shoot at me when he thinks he's gotta stay at the top of the balcony behind a wall and pillars. What annoys me a lot about this map are the peekaboo fight-and-flight I had with the Revenant/Arachnotron trap, which made me run for cover because there's too many projectiles to account for, and the final boss. It's a variation on the Icon of Sin where the sweet spot's been moved to right below the entrance normally leading to Romero's head; the player has absolutely no idea that this is the case. I expected either several Cyberdemons, a new boss or simply the old Doom II boss with a different arena style, but here I am and the game's being obscure! Oh well. Both maps feel like rush jobs, but they still have some of the Seiben magic.
This really says something about Evilution as a whole. Each of its thirds have their fair share of problems: that one map no one likes (Prison, Steel Works, Habitat), the many that are divisive, and the few that stand up to scrutiny and feel really fun to play through and appreciate today. I guess it was the more ambitious megawad to have been selected over Memento Mori I/II for canonization (maybe TNT simply had better contacts!), but this sprawling, adventurous map pack is uneven for better or worse. Plutonia's likely going to be consistent with the cost of familiarity, though I've seen enough from the Casalis to know that I'm in good hands (Mill's not that bad, just mediocre). One complaint I see often is that the new music and textures suckthey don't. Some of the new tracks are great, some aren't, but I certainly like the added textures, even though they stand out from the official set. Whatever the case, I've got more WADs to play and mods to try...so yeah.
Dog Problems
Banned
Doom statue coming out later this year.
http://www.gamingheads.com/index.php?option=com_myphp&Itemid=3&product=140
http://www.gamingheads.com/index.php?option=com_myphp&Itemid=3&product=140
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
It's been a week now, where have you guys been?
I've now played through the first half of Plutonia, UV-Max + secret maps. The pack starts off well with Congo, but Well of Souls and Aztec both modulate between underwhelming and overly frustrating (like I'm going to see that invisible bridge without a crystal-sector effect, Dario!). Every map onward has either been solid or amazing, just thinking about the variety and ferocity of situations thrown at the player. An exception would be Caughtyard, which works up until I'm surrounded by Revenants with inconsistent auto-aim (something these maps test the limits of) and too little options for movement inside the courtyard to avoid missiles or getting cornered on the upper level. Maps 10 through 15 are definitely the best so far; Hunted's a great concept that Dario does well, immediately followed by Speed where Milo tackles multiple planes of verticality with style. Gosh, I could go on and on...
Memento Mori was also in my playlist, though I need to start over now that I've put my pistol-start-options WAD in global auto-load. Mark Klem can make one hell of a rockin' tune, I'd say. And I've put some time towards finishing Duke 3D and starting Shadow Warrior, because I need some Wang.
I've now played through the first half of Plutonia, UV-Max + secret maps. The pack starts off well with Congo, but Well of Souls and Aztec both modulate between underwhelming and overly frustrating (like I'm going to see that invisible bridge without a crystal-sector effect, Dario!). Every map onward has either been solid or amazing, just thinking about the variety and ferocity of situations thrown at the player. An exception would be Caughtyard, which works up until I'm surrounded by Revenants with inconsistent auto-aim (something these maps test the limits of) and too little options for movement inside the courtyard to avoid missiles or getting cornered on the upper level. Maps 10 through 15 are definitely the best so far; Hunted's a great concept that Dario does well, immediately followed by Speed where Milo tackles multiple planes of verticality with style. Gosh, I could go on and on...
Memento Mori was also in my playlist, though I need to start over now that I've put my pistol-start-options WAD in global auto-load. Mark Klem can make one hell of a rockin' tune, I'd say. And I've put some time towards finishing Duke 3D and starting Shadow Warrior, because I need some Wang.
Shadow Hog
Member
Well, I made a video of a Doom 64 EX "mod" I made many months ago. Y'know how it generates a soundfont ripped from the ROM that contains all of the game's sound effects in addition to the standard music instruments it uses? Well, I modified that soundfont to replace all of the PS1 Doom sound effects with the original PC Doom sound effects instead. I like the result.
Later, I tried a vanilla-compatible mod that allows Arch-viles to resurrect EVERYTHING. Masterminds, Cyberdemons, Pain Elementals, Lost Souls, other Arch-viles, Commander Keen... if it wasn't revivable before, it is now.
Later, I tried a vanilla-compatible mod that allows Arch-viles to resurrect EVERYTHING. Masterminds, Cyberdemons, Pain Elementals, Lost Souls, other Arch-viles, Commander Keen... if it wasn't revivable before, it is now.
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
Seek out a cartridge of DOOM 64. Extract the WAD from the cartridge in a legal way. Download DOOM 64 EX. Profit.
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
So I was watching Suitepee's Evilution stream yesterday when I decided to start on Tarnsman/Alfonzo's co-op streams from almost a year ago. Everything went swell until Tarnsman started bashing Mount Pain all the damn time. For shame; he never substantiates why he dislikes the map either, and I still don't know what he thinks of Drake O'Brien's mapping and texturing. Oh well, I really enjoyed it anyhow. Tom Mustaine is apparently the best co-op Cyberdemon placer ever (two of his maps have Cybs stuck in the most useless spots possible, though nothing wow.wad-like), and Milo Casali just about threw everything and the kitchen sink into Heck to make everything so hard the two players had to increase their lives limit just to finish.
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
Holy shit, I've finished Plutonia.
Milo's my favorite Casali, but at least Dario is there to try something new. In shot, his layouts are often the least derivative of Ultimate Doom and Doom II maps, a problem I see in Milo's map (though he at least one-ups Circle of Death/'O' of Destruction and Deimos Anomaly). I'm not surprised Gaben chose Dario as one of the level designers on the original Half-Life team, though that might also come down to him having more online presence than Milo. This megawad on the whole is much more consistently awesome than Evilution, with most of the lesser maps congregated near the beginning. One only needs to look at the secret maps to figure out how different the brothers' styles are; Cyberden's gimmicky but harmless, while Go 2 It effortlessly fleshes out Entryway into one of the first slaughtermaps. But the best maps for me, like Speed and Genesis from the middle part of Plutonia, are lean and mean, applying economy of design and fair difficulty unlike anything I'd ever dealt with before.
There's definitely a lot of recycling between maps and homages to id maps, but the architecture can be surprisingly cool at times, even the lighting (usually in Milo maps). Secrets aren't required to win, traps seem telegraped well enough, and a little agility with the BFG can dispose of any potential instakill segments of a playthrough. Not to say that this isn't a frustrating experience; Well of Souls' crystal-sector bridge doesn't work as well as it should, for example. The moment I came up to the canyon, I saw a shaded rampart-room to the left of me and chaingunners + revenants + cacodemons all out to get me. Dario intends for players to shoot the computer bank in the room to reveal the tell-tale bridge posts, but nothing looks like a shootable switch and I can't be bothered to waste precious ammo on anything but the demons. I mean, you could simply teleport-spawn them in after shooting the switch to raise the posts and the bridge from the bottom, generating some pressure without being mean...
So Dario's shit isn't always together, while Milo makes sure not to step beyond his boundaries. Everything's so calculated that even one small omission or design flaw can upset the balance of a map like Caughtyard, where it's not viable to circle around an irregular courtyard dodging missiles, nor to ascend the lift to fight Revenants on all sides blocking the one jump off of that level! As I've said, Plutonia's best moments come in the middle, absent for much of the opening maps and tapering off near the end. Evilution arguably has the better thematic progression, never losing sight of its story as the player heads deeper into the corporate remains under attack and ultimately engulfed by Hell. These things aside, Plutonia's pretty damn awesome, and it's stood up better than Doom II's maps after all these years.
Milo's my favorite Casali, but at least Dario is there to try something new. In shot, his layouts are often the least derivative of Ultimate Doom and Doom II maps, a problem I see in Milo's map (though he at least one-ups Circle of Death/'O' of Destruction and Deimos Anomaly). I'm not surprised Gaben chose Dario as one of the level designers on the original Half-Life team, though that might also come down to him having more online presence than Milo. This megawad on the whole is much more consistently awesome than Evilution, with most of the lesser maps congregated near the beginning. One only needs to look at the secret maps to figure out how different the brothers' styles are; Cyberden's gimmicky but harmless, while Go 2 It effortlessly fleshes out Entryway into one of the first slaughtermaps. But the best maps for me, like Speed and Genesis from the middle part of Plutonia, are lean and mean, applying economy of design and fair difficulty unlike anything I'd ever dealt with before.
There's definitely a lot of recycling between maps and homages to id maps, but the architecture can be surprisingly cool at times, even the lighting (usually in Milo maps). Secrets aren't required to win, traps seem telegraped well enough, and a little agility with the BFG can dispose of any potential instakill segments of a playthrough. Not to say that this isn't a frustrating experience; Well of Souls' crystal-sector bridge doesn't work as well as it should, for example. The moment I came up to the canyon, I saw a shaded rampart-room to the left of me and chaingunners + revenants + cacodemons all out to get me. Dario intends for players to shoot the computer bank in the room to reveal the tell-tale bridge posts, but nothing looks like a shootable switch and I can't be bothered to waste precious ammo on anything but the demons. I mean, you could simply teleport-spawn them in after shooting the switch to raise the posts and the bridge from the bottom, generating some pressure without being mean...
So Dario's shit isn't always together, while Milo makes sure not to step beyond his boundaries. Everything's so calculated that even one small omission or design flaw can upset the balance of a map like Caughtyard, where it's not viable to circle around an irregular courtyard dodging missiles, nor to ascend the lift to fight Revenants on all sides blocking the one jump off of that level! As I've said, Plutonia's best moments come in the middle, absent for much of the opening maps and tapering off near the end. Evilution arguably has the better thematic progression, never losing sight of its story as the player heads deeper into the corporate remains under attack and ultimately engulfed by Hell. These things aside, Plutonia's pretty damn awesome, and it's stood up better than Doom II's maps after all these years.
ZombieSupaStar
Member
can anyone help me think of this wad?
It was like basically a showcase of what you could do in the Doom engine, you could walk around a city and interact with different things. There was a bowling alley you could bowl in. And I swear it had an arcade with street fighter 2 in it (not an actual arcade gameplay, but I remember seeing EHonda for some reason).
It was like basically a showcase of what you could do in the Doom engine, you could walk around a city and interact with different things. There was a bowling alley you could bowl in. And I swear it had an arcade with street fighter 2 in it (not an actual arcade gameplay, but I remember seeing EHonda for some reason).
Shadow Hog
Member
Doom Center.
Dictator93
Member
Plutonia has too many Chaingun Comandos IMO. Trope level usage of the monster type.
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
Whatever happens, Onslaught's still a lame map next to The Twilight. Archviles behind walls reviving chaingunner platforms? That's fucking rough (though the level has at least one megasphere and a boat-load of useful secrets).
I have numerous directions I can take at this point in my Doom journey. Alien Vendetta's near the top of my list, but I fear it'll be so good as to make the classic mega-PWADs less potent upon playthrough. To that end, I still haven't done the Memento Mori series or Requiem, or The Innocent Crew's 1994/5 releases, or Icarus.
I have numerous directions I can take at this point in my Doom journey. Alien Vendetta's near the top of my list, but I fear it'll be so good as to make the classic mega-PWADs less potent upon playthrough. To that end, I still haven't done the Memento Mori series or Requiem, or The Innocent Crew's 1994/5 releases, or Icarus.
Shadow Hog
Member
There's also Perdition's Gate, intended to be part 3 of Final Doom, but ultimately missing some deadline and winding up a WizardWorks add-on instead. Its author has since re-released it for free, although I'm not sure of the legality of it.
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
Didn't know Mustaine's put it out; I still want to play Hell to Pay, though that might be a more difficult find. What I'll do is tackle the Master Levels and then do Memento Mori, since that's the other important megawad from late 1995.
Played a couple hours of DOOM 2 multiplayer tonight using the ZDaemon launcher. Makes it so damn easy to find servers and get in. It even downloads the wad for you if it can find it on databases.
Forgot how much fun it is to have a super fast MP game, really wish there was a modern equivalent (Rott kinda fits).
The co-op levels against waves and waves of enemies are pretty amazing, especially with unlimited ammo.
Forgot how much fun it is to have a super fast MP game, really wish there was a modern equivalent (Rott kinda fits).
The co-op levels against waves and waves of enemies are pretty amazing, especially with unlimited ammo.
That's what Doomseeker does as well, but Doomseeker supports all popular multiplayer ports.
spacemonkeynation
Member
I haven't parsed the rest of this thread, so if they've been mentioned please excuse me. Saw you guys talking about WADs and I have to chime in and suggest my favorites: Memento Mori and, to a lesser extent, it's sequel Memento Mori 2. It's been years since I've played them but at the time I found them to be far and away the best unofficial DOOM expansions.
So if you're looking for single player WADs check those out! For multiplayer we used to have tons of fun with Dwango5.
So if you're looking for single player WADs check those out! For multiplayer we used to have tons of fun with Dwango5.
Shadow Hog
Member
I should note Memento Mori and its sequel were actually made with co-op in mind :V
Not that they're bad SP WADs as well, but, well, it's what doomwiki.org says, so...
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
One Man Doom's the best site for reviews of Doom WADS old and new. I now know about a few more interesting 1994 wads thanks to it (early stuff like stones.wad and subway.wad).
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
Blogger? Man, get a Tumblr already! (So I can Follow it and have it show up in my dashboard. Seriously, I stumble upon a Blogger blog once in a blue moon.) I don't even know how to follow someone on Blogger.
Pretty sure that bums me out more than it probably should.
Will read later. Then probably never again since I can't follow it.
Pretty sure that bums me out more than it probably should.
Will read later. Then probably never again since I can't follow it.
Complain complain complain
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
I dislike blogs myself, but the author's put up a WAD library page that gives you links to each review he's done per WAD.
Raptomex
Member
They're actually listed in the OP. Great WADs.
TUROK
Member
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
Well, more importantly, there's a game to Doom that can't be bettered elsewhere; I feel that, were it not for online persistent worlds (online Legos), Minecraft's main flaw (its small amount of content to build with at any given time) would show through easier. And talented artists stick to AutoCAD and 3D modelers anyway, since that gives them many more options. Doom just can't be replaced in that way.
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
You're damn right. It looks less visually cluttered than MM8BDM, too, much more like Commander Keen (hint hint).
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
Oh wow. I love the look of this thing.
I was going to say a polished Chex Quest
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
whynotboth.gif
Haven't been playing much of anything lately thanks to homework, but I'll get back to Dooming ASAP.
CoachKevin
Member
I am going to interview David Kushner, the author of, "Masters of Doom" for my podcast, "Back in my Play." Feel free to let me know if you have questions for him in the main thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=581047
CoachKevin
Member
Reminder I am interviewing David Kushner, author of, "Masters of Doom" tomorrow for Back in my Play. You sure you guys have no questions for him?
Dictator93
Member
If you could ask him what he thinks of id in the post doom3 era. Also, what he thought of JC leaving id for oculus.
CoachKevin
Member
Still have an few hours if there is anything else. I am doing the interview at noon est.
soxinthebox
Member
Ask him how he rated Red Faction on the n-gage.