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[consoul]

Lots of numbers in here, except the the most important ones: development budget and net profit.

but OK let's just call it a flop without knowing those figures.

 

[Fbh]

VAT is 20%. US Prices don't have taxes.

Ah I see, so PSN does show prices with VAT in Europe?=
I ask because in my country VAT is 19% but for some reason PSN is the only digital sorefront that still shows prices without sales tax, and only adds it during checkout (which is why I don't really use it and I've been "living in Alaska" ever since the Ps3)

 

[Kacho]

People STAY subbed if MS keep the games coming. For example, I knew Doom was coming, so quite happily kept my sub going another month.

Yes, people stay subbed for games in a broad sense but I'm still not sure how that helps id or Doom here.

If Microsoft sees their subscribers go up slightly because of a new Doom and 99% of the new subs aren't retained, no one is benefiting here.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Lots of numbers in here, except the the most important ones: development budget and net profit.

but OK let's just call it a flop without knowing those figures.

asmon just said the game is a flop, and he shows evidence. And what he says goes, and its the true.

 

[TheKratos]

Gamepass, nothing more, nothing less. Great game though.

 

[StereoVsn]

Ah I see, so PSN does show prices with VAT in Europe?=
I ask because in my country VAT is 19% but for some reason PSN is the only digital sorefront that still shows prices without sales tax, and only adds it during checkout (which is why I don't really use it and I've been "living in Alaska" ever since the Ps3)

For most countries yes as far as I know so like UK, Germany, France, etc.. unless something recently changed.

 

[amigastar]

I'm in Denial stage right now, i can't accept it to be a flop.

 

[lh032]

doom was never a big franchise tbh.
theres a reason why bethesda bought by phil.
Most of their IP is no longer the "popular" category.

 

[ZehDon]

But will it retain the new players it brought in is the question. Existing subscribers aren't necessarily retained because of Doom unless you have data that supports that?

Feels like you're moving the goal posts here.

You: "Game has to retain subscribers or bring in new ones to be a success".
I explained if the game has millions of players on Game Pass, then it's clearly helping retention.
You: "Actually, retention doesn't matter - it only matters if the game brings in lots of new players."
I asked how many new subscribers every game on Game Pass has to bring in. I asked if one million was enough?
"Actually, only new player retention matters - and you need to provide information literally from the future regarding T:TDA's players."

If the game has millions of players, but less than one million sales, than the vast majority of players played it on Game Pass. If it didn't bring in millions of new subscribers, than it is self-evidently driving retention. You can jump through hoops to say otherwise, but at the end of the day, that's Microsoft's goal: get people playing games on Game Pass. In this regard, their strategy is clearly working. With 34 million monthly subscribers, Microsoft pulls in around $300m in monthly revenue. D:TDA cost around $100m, and $200m more than covers the cost of all of the new additions to Game Pass this month. From a sheer accounting point of view, Microsoft are already in the green on D:TDA. Was it as big as Eternal? No, it doesn't look like it was. But was it a flop? Doesn't look it, either.

 

[mckmas8808]

Suprising that the OP just made up numbers and claims and that people just accepted them as fact?

Why are you saying these numbers are made up?

 

[CoreyFlawless]

More likely they should had toke a break from that IP

 

[zaga]

MS dont seem discount their titles that much these days.

It's actually worse, they don't discount much and they don't make many physical copies, so the used market is limited.

In Australia this was $95 AUD which is like paying $55 USD + tax. Still painful but it seems like Australia is getting the best deal here.

 

[poppabk]

Why are you saying these numbers are made up?

Quoting my own post to show how nuts some of the OP is.

But Doom outsold Clair Obscur on steam.

Steamdb max concurrent:
Hi fi rush - 6132
Doom - 31470
Clair Obscur - 145063

Now OP (and why would he lie) says that hifi rush outsold Doom on steam so we know for a fact that a game with 5 times the players can sell less than whatever title we want to win or lose based on our fanboy desires. 5 x 31470 = 157350.
Therefore - Doom the dark ages sold better than Clair Obscur.
I should make a thread letting everyone know.

 

[clarky]

It's actually worse, they don't discount much and they don't make many physical copies, so the used market is limited.

In Australia this was $95 AUD which is like paying $55 USD + tax. Still painful but it seems like Australia is getting the best deal here.

Everything is done to drive you to Gamepass.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Everything is done to drive you to Gamepass.

 

[akaFullmetal]

Been lots of great games at $50 with way more game time. Maybe this game need to be priced more competitive.

 

[Brakum]

VAT is 20%. US Prices don't have taxes.

And no one cares when other games that are 70$ in the US are not 80€ in europe. Doom might be the first game that's 80€ in europe to be honest. And also 1$ is not 1€. With 20% VAT, the price would be 74.352€. And VAT is different in every country anyway.

Im in switzerland and of course the game is 80CHF. VAT is 8.1%. 1$=0.83CHF. So the game should cost 62.60CHF. They're charging me 21$ than someone in the US after taxes.

 

[The_Mike]

I LOVED Doom 2016.

I HATED Doom Eternal.

I see no interest in Doom The Dark Ages. Looks like they took the critic from Eternal, and didn't understand what peopled wanted from 2016.

Swinging a shield, driving big demons or whatever it is, just looks so utterly boring to me.

Add to that, that fucking insane price point of 80 euro, doesnt exactly help the game either.

 

[Brakum]

Ah I see, so PSN does show prices with VAT in Europe?=

It's literally illegal to not show the final price in europe. There is no such thing as seeing a price somewhere and seeing a different price at checkout. To most of the world that's unfathomable.

So no it's not PSN. It's literally everyone.

 

[Deerock71]

Both my sons play it.

 

[Kacho]

Feels like you're moving the goal posts here.

You: "Game has to retain subscribers or bring in new ones to be a success".
I explained if the game has millions of players on Game Pass, then it's clearly helping retention.
You: "Actually, retention doesn't matter - it only matters if the game brings in lots of new players."
I asked how many new subscribers every game on Game Pass has to bring in. I asked if one million was enough?
"Actually, only new player retention matters - and you need to provide information literally from the future regarding T:TDA's players."

If the game has millions of players, but less than one million sales, than the vast majority of players played it on Game Pass. If it didn't bring in millions of new subscribers, than it is self-evidently driving retention. You can jump through hoops to say otherwise, but at the end of the day, that's Microsoft's goal: get people playing games on Game Pass. In this regard, their strategy is clearly working. With 34 million monthly subscribers, Microsoft pulls in around $300m in monthly revenue. D:TDA cost around $100m, and $200m more than covers the cost of all of the new additions to Game Pass this month. From a sheer accounting point of view, Microsoft are already in the green on D:TDA. Was it as big as Eternal? No, it doesn't look like it was. But was it a flop? Doesn't look it, either.

I'm not moving anything. I stated clearly that bringing in new players and retaining them is what defines success on Game Pass. If Doom failed to do that then it is not a success on the service.

 

[ZehDon]

I'm not moving anything. I stated clearly that bringing in new players and retaining them is what defines success on Game Pass. If Doom failed to do that then it is not a success on the service.

Ok, so to be successful, Game Pass must have infinite growth? How many new players must every game on Game Pass bring in to be considered a success?

 

[poppabk]

I'm not moving anything. I stated clearly that bringing in new players and retaining them is what defines success on Game Pass. If Doom failed to do that then it is not a success on the service.

Stranger Things season 4 was Netflix's biggest ever English language premier and they lost subscribers. Was it not a success?

 

[Danjin44]

I'm in Denial stage right now, i can't accept it to be a flop.

 

[Hohenheim]

Because it was a huge step down from Eternal despite what the small vocal minority tells you.

At least in this new one you don't have to watch your step every 5 minutes in yet another platform section.

I love all DOOM games btw. But those platform sections in Eternal was the true hell in that game. And the fucking Mauruders, which at least was very satisfying to beat.

About 70% through the new one now, and except for the dragon levels, which are pretty boring, I love it.
Overall i'm glad they do some subtle changes for each of these games, even though it means having to play through some kinda lame parts.

For the next one, I hope they give the horror vibes (First part of Doom 3) another go.

 

[Kacho]

Ok, so to be successful, Game Pass must have infinite growth? How many new players must every game on Game Pass bring in to be considered a success?

Expectations would vary depending on the type of game and budget. There's a big difference between games like Hi-Fi Rush, Doom TDA and Call of Duty as far as what type of impact they would have.

But yes, a service like Game Pass is very dependent on constant growth and retention. That's why Nutella and Phil were using Game Pass growth as a determining factor for their annual bonuses.

 

[Gambit2483]

The game is $69.99USD. It would be important to cite which currency the $80 is referred to.

I'm seeing more and more people are giving false or misinformed game prices.

That said this game was never going to be successful with such a huge Gamepass push AND releasing a fake "physical" edition.

If this is MS' strategy moving forward expect to see a lot more failures.

 

[Jigsaah]

Think you may be right but for the wrong reason.

This is why. Doom Eternal was more decisive tha DA.

Interesting. I never played Doom 2016 so all I know is Eternal, which I thought was great. I had no idea that Doom fans hated Eternal.

 

[Brakum]

I'm seeing more and more people are giving false or misinformed game prices.

That said this game was never going to be successful with such a huge Gamepass push AND releasing a fake "physical" edition.

If this is MS' strategy moving forward expect to see a lot more failures.

It's 80€ in europe. Where i live in switzerland after taxes it's 96USD.

 

[Kacho]

Stranger Things season 4 was Netflix's biggest ever English language premier and they lost subscribers. Was it not a success?

Couldn't say. I don't keep up with Netflix content. Don't they have like 200-300 million subscribers compared to 20-30 million Game Pass subscribers? I'm fairly certain Microsoft wants to be operating at Netflix's level in the gaming space.

 

[Brakum]

Interesting. I never played Doom 2016 so all I know is Eternal, which I thought was great. I had no idea that Doom fans hated Eternal.

Doom fans dont hate eternal. It's a tiny minority that likes to be loud on the internet. Do divise games have 90+ user score averages?

 

[Jigsaah]

Doom fans dont hate eternal. It's a tiny minority that likes to be loud on the internet. Do divise games have 90+ user score averages?

clarky care to add something here?

 

[Brakum]

clarky care to add something here?

Numbers are public. 8.6 user rating on metacritic, 90 on opencritic, 90% positive reviews on steam.

It's like saying thst breath of the wild is divisive. Im on of the people who doesnt like it at all, and i will say it any chance i get, and im not the only one, we are very loud. But for me to say that it's a divisive game would be some next level delusion with the review scores it has across the board from media and users.

 

[MiguelItUp]

Interesting. I never played Doom 2016 so all I know is Eternal, which I thought was great. I had no idea that Doom fans hated Eternal.

The entire community didn't, but many did. A lot of people were immediately turned off by the platforming aspects of the game comparing it to a Mario game. Others weren't happy with the "forced use of certain weapons to acquire certain pick-ups", etc. The folks that didn't like it were VERY vocal about it. You can look up old Steam forum and reddit posts from 5 years ago and see the complaints pretty quickly.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

I tried it yesterday, the game is just not good. I liked the two predecessors much more. And I probably won't continue playing the latest part.

It's a very good game by every metric wtf u saying? You may not like the changes compared to the previous couple but its still a high quality game.

 

[GigaBowser]

terimble my friends

 

[damidu]

Lots of numbers in here, except the the most important ones: development budget and net profit.

but OK let's just call it a flop without knowing those figures.

lol good luck getting any number other than dload count from old ms for their floppy flops

 

[Icymanipulator]

Should have made Eternal 2

Hope this is a lesson learned.

 

[Jigsaah]

Numbers are public. 8.6 user rating on metacritic, 90 on opencritic, 90% positive reviews on steam.

It's like saying thst breath of the wild is divisive. Im on of the people who doesnt like it at all, and i will say it any chance i get, and im not the only one, we are very loud. But for me to say that it's a divisive game would be some next level delusion with the review scores it has across the board from media and users.

The entire community didn't, but many did. A lot of people were immediately turned off by the platforming aspects of the game comparing it to a Mario game. Others weren't happy with the "forced use of certain weapons to acquire certain pick-ups", etc. The folks that didn't like it were VERY vocal about it. You can look up old Steam forum and reddit posts from 5 years ago and see the complaints pretty quickly.

Ok I think I have a clearer picture now. Metacritic score for user-rating doesn't lie but there is vocal opposition to the direction of Eternal. Maybe a stretch to say it's divisive as that would indicate closer to a 50-50 split in sentiment. So as it pertains to my original thoughts on why the Dark Ages is suffering...does the "perfect storm" theory hold up?

Some are saying it was Gamepass, others are saying it's Doom fatigue. I think it's a combination of these things. Was I dying for a Doom sequel? No...I was hopeful when they announced it, though. I'm a bad case to follow though as I didn't play Eternal until it came out on Gamepass. So I'm not really much of a Doom fan, comparatively speaking.

 

[BlackProdigy]

Market is too saturated it'll be fine

 

[amigastar]

Should have made Eternal 2

Hope this is a lesson learned.

No, we don't need an Eternal 2. I'm glad they went with an other design for this. I love TDA.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Stranger Things season 4 was Netflix's biggest ever English language premier and they lost subscribers. Was it not a success?

Ironically that release stopped the bleeding by half. (They were expecting twice the decline). Also, they have like 200M subs

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Ok, so to be successful, Game Pass must have infinite growth?

We passed that timeline.

How many new players must every game on Game Pass bring in to be considered a success?

To match let's say, 3M copies worth of revenue at $75, GP needs to acquire between 11-15M new subscribers.

 

[flying_sq]

I don't like parry mechanics in games, so I'm giving it a pass, or I'll wait until it's like $5 or something like that. Plus the medieval setting doesn't do it for me.

 

[Kacho]

terimble my friends

Switch 2 port am save us

 

[poppabk]

We passed that timeline.


To match let's say, 3M copies worth of revenue at $75, GP needs to acquire between 11-15M new ssubscribers.

Or retain 1 million for a year.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Or retain 1 million for a year.

That is no additive.

The idea behind Game Pass, Play Anywhere/Dual Entitlement, and ultimately going third-party was to bring in more people, not to serve as a substitute for a game's revenue

 

[Pasta la Vista]

How in the fuck would you people have gamed during the 80/90/2000's? Christ almighty- PAY for the fucking game if you want games like this to continue to get made! "We don't want single player games to disappear" and "fuck GAAS" yet let's NOT buy this game cause it's $80 and you will "finish it in a week". Fuck me drunk, Microsoft has you all wrapped around their fucking finger with this gamepass bullshit.

We rented a lot of games in the 80s and 90s, or traded/borrowed from friends. It was rare that anyone I knew owned more than like 5 games.

 

[Arsic]

It's honestly wild. It's a good game. No it isn't 2016 or Eternal good but those were in discussion of top 5 best FPS ever made.

25 hours of play for me on nightmare to complete it.

I would say for the normal person at $40 it's a no brainer. On gamepass? Shit it's a steal.

I love Doom. If I didn't have a career where a neck tat wasn't damning I would get the slayer logo on it. To see the game flop hurts because it isn't near shitty enough to flop. Should it sell less than the other two entries and review less? Sure, but this is like veilguard level flop and it doesn't deserve it.

 

[K' Dash]

How in the fuck would you people have gamed during the 80/90/2000's? Christ almighty- PAY for the fucking game if you want games like this to continue to get made! "We don't want single player games to disappear" and "fuck GAAS" yet let's NOT buy this game cause it's $80 and you will "finish it in a week". Fuck me drunk, Microsoft has you all wrapped around their fucking finger with this gamepass bullshit.

traded/rented A LOT.