Aren't all evolution of the previous version?
Doom: The Dark Ages is a flop
- Thread starter Rush2112
- Start date
PurePlatinum
Member
deserved bomb. By far the weakest game of the three. I keep forgetting I played it.
wafflecioccy
Member
I'm enjoying it a lot?
Fake
Member
No. Eternal have a different gameplay unlike Doom 2016.
Enemy scales, weak point, low ammuniton all the time, forcing you to do melee, plataforming.
This is not Doom as far as I remember.
Now, if you are talking about graphics I can agree. Just some poor art direction choises here and there, making Doom less hellish and more colorful.
MrJangles
Member
id needs to put Doom to sleep for a few years and maybe bring Quake back to the forefront of its portfolio. A Quake 1 remaster on modern tech would be amazing and when they return to Doom go back to its roots. Dark Ages isn't Doom, neither was Eternal and I say that as somebody who has put thousands of hours in and considers OG Doom by far the greatest game ever made.
This doesn't mean they can't evolve their engine in a new iteration.
vaibhavpisal
Member
Talking about game or engine?
If its about game, no, not an update.
Will you call Sekiro update of Dark Souls formula? I wouldn't.
All 3 Doom games have different fundamentals.
Engine
Codes 208
Member
Think of dark ages and eternal as two separate evolution paths.
Eternal double downed on 2016 faster pace and glory kill-centric loop and ramped it up with grapplehooks, double jumps and evade bursts (think halo 5 on steroids)
Dark ages is slower, more defensive and more deliberate with a focus on parrying.
Edit: ah, you meant engine
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vaibhavpisal
Member
Of course its an update. They don't make engines from scratch.
Poppinfresh
Gold Member
Emphasis mine, but...
This is not a FPS that I want to play, Doom or otherwise.
I played about 5 minutes each of Eternal and Dark Ages and realized that they weren't the Doom game(s) I was looking for.
Fake
Member
You are talking about the engine, but I'm talking about Doom overall.
I was very specific in my post, saying 'Eternal have a different gameplay unlike Doom 2016.'
I played Doom 2016 and was expecting both Eternal and Dark Age to follow, but as I saw gameplay trailers and previews was pretty obvious this game is not Doom anymore. Good for those who like this new 'Doom', but I don't like at all.
Doom 2016 is the only one that come close to the Doom 2/TNT/Plutonia concept.
clarky
Gold Member
You're assuming those games would be better than what we got. It not a given.
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cireza
Member
They don't really have to be better. The issue is that people got enough Doom with the first game. I have no interest in the two sequels because "more of the same", and not really better than 2016 on top of it.
Just make different games. And before people tell me that they are different, who cares ? They are called Doom. At some point, you need to make something different and send the right message.
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clarky
Gold Member
You're assuming everyone feels like yourself, which is fine of course but me personally loved Doom 2016 and would have liked more. Eternal did not scratch that itch but this one is a nice in-between.
Obviously i'm an outlier. You don't have to reinvent the wheel if the wheel does its job.
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cireza
Member
Well, it seems that it doesn't.
I loved Doom 2016 as well. But the game was so good that it rendered the two sequels utterly useless.
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clarky
Gold Member
Does for me
cireza
Member
Sure. But did you check the subject of this topic ? We are talking about the fact that both sequels have done less than the previous game. Even if it was great for you, objectively this wasn't the right path forward.Does for me
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clarky
Gold Member
Yes and in my eyes it's definitely not a flop. In fact i got a semi-on while playing certain parts.
That's all that counts
Edit: To respond to the edit, Who gives a shit? Eternal was a flop in my eyes, this was not, loved it.
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cireza
Member
I don't really understand what's your point in the topic. It is fine enjoying a game that didn't sell well, sure. But how does it help with the discussion ?
This is like a topic about issues about the Joycon and you would say "works for me". Ok, cool story bro, but it doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist.
If you want to play more Doom games or whatever, this discussion is certainly interesting to have, rather than choosing straight up denial.
clarky
Gold Member
Be aware im on a train and have been heavily drinking since lunch so my arguments may not make sense.
Point stands in my brain though that Doom the dark ages gave me a hard on at times.
cireza
Member
Happy you enjoyed the game, honestly.
Don't drive, stay safe.
clarky
Gold Member
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powder
Banned
I agree, they could've had a three-peat reboot trifecta. Nobody needed all that Doom. Let that muhfucker sleep.
vaibhavpisal
Member
Nydius
Member
All you had to do was read two further posts:
cireza
is 100% right. Eternal and TDA have performed worse than Doom 2016. TDA fell off so hard that outside of this thread I don't hear or see a single person talking about it. It came and went like a fart in the wind. The only "joke" are the lengths you'll go to defend mediocrity.
Pasta la Vista
Member
No that is some shit you made up in your head.
vaibhavpisal
Member
Doom 2016 has made Eternal and TDA irrelevant, thats the joke. We get them from time to time.All you had to do was read two further posts:
The only "joke" are the lengths you'll go to defend mediocrity.
Coming to topic, Eternal 100% performed better than 2016 on sales chart. TDA is a bit of a mixed bag, not sure where it stands.
YCoCg
Gold Member
Sure, because the majority of developers haven't abandoned in house engines and switched to Unreal when a project flops right?
Starbuck2907
Member
I hardly ever do shield rams. Weird.
Pasta la Vista
Member
Id is not abandoning their own in house engine, the failure of this game is completely unrelated to their tech. It was their gameplay design decisions and the price.
Starbuck2907
Member
I have enjoyed Doom The Dark Ages the most of any of the new Dooms. I like the shield gameplay, the counters, the throws, etc. I like the slower pace. I hated Doom Eternal.
Also:
www.vice.com
Also:
'DOOM: The Dark Ages' Success Proves That Steam Charts Can't Always Predict A Flop
'DOOM: The Dark Ages' is a massive success according to Bethesda, despite the FPS hitting low player numbers on Steam Charts.
www.vice.com
playbignbox
Member
I find it funny how many here would rather have a derivative experience than something with new mechanics. It certainly would have been easier for ID to make Doom 2016 over and over again, but thankfully we got some fresh experiences.
geary
Member
Get enough…You got 3 games of 15 hours each in 9 years. A single open world RPG has more content than all of them combined.
Avid Reading Horse
Member
Don't believe your lying eyes! Believe Vice.... and corporate spin!I have enjoyed Doom The Dark Ages the most of any of the new Dooms. I like the shield gameplay, the counters, the throws, etc. I like the slower pace. I hated Doom Eternal.
Also:
'DOOM: The Dark Ages' Success Proves That Steam Charts Can't Always Predict A Flop
'DOOM: The Dark Ages' is a massive success according to Bethesda, despite the FPS hitting low player numbers on Steam Charts.
cireza
Member
A game of Outrun 2 lasts 5 minutes, yet I have spent tenths of hours in this game. How weird.
Kataploom
Gold Member
There are people trying to pretend everyone thinks it's a bad game. No, barely anyone think it's a bad game, most of us know it's a great game, some of us have it as our favorite in the franchise.
But I've seen a pattern: Some people are just salty that they can't run it at 4K 120fps with a 3060, 1070 or whatever, others are Eternal fans expecting the same approach.
I've seen the opposite as well, many of us that loved the game were left big disappointment from Eternal so maybe there's a pattern there.
Ok but I'm not referring to you...
Judge Magister
Gold Member
Eternal too fast. Dark Ages too slow. 2016 perfectly balanced, as all things should be.
Madserb2023
Member
I thought the game was fun, just not as good as the two previous entries. I am glad that they are willing to try something new, otherwise we would never have had Eternal if they just made Doom 2016 Part 2. Sometimes It just doesn't quite work as well. The biggest mistake is that in some ways it doesn't completely lean into the new direction. They increase the size of the environments but they didn't add vehicles. It would have been better if you could have rode the Pinky and swung a mace for instance. Halo figured this out more than than 20 years ago regarding pacing when having larger levels.
its 15 hrs of repetitive gameplay, that gets old at half point of those hours.
if you try to squeeze some more out of it by doing a completionist run, whole pace gets out of whack with constant map checking and it becomes a bore fest of highest order.
the mecha - dragon levels supposed to spice things up, but are total miss gameplay-wise and are glorified qte sections.
convulated mess of a lore and another nonsensical attempt at storytelling.
graphically barely an update let alone a generational leap.
so a total rip-off at that asking price, no wonder it flopped.
if you try to squeeze some more out of it by doing a completionist run, whole pace gets out of whack with constant map checking and it becomes a bore fest of highest order.
the mecha - dragon levels supposed to spice things up, but are total miss gameplay-wise and are glorified qte sections.
convulated mess of a lore and another nonsensical attempt at storytelling.
graphically barely an update let alone a generational leap.
so a total rip-off at that asking price, no wonder it flopped.
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
I still have to play the others so I'm not ranking the trilogy games, but I was specifically attracted to Dark Ages over the other 2.I have enjoyed Doom The Dark Ages the most of any of the new Dooms. I like the shield gameplay, the counters, the throws, etc. I like the slower pace. I hated Doom Eternal.
Also:
'DOOM: The Dark Ages' Success Proves That Steam Charts Can't Always Predict A Flop
'DOOM: The Dark Ages' is a massive success according to Bethesda, despite the FPS hitting low player numbers on Steam Charts.
Endlessly strafing and running backwards is the Achilles heel of all first person games, whether its shooters or melee. It's why most of it is awkward looking and absurd if you ever see it with the camera backed out in 3rd person. Running awkwardly sideways and backwards endlessly is about all you do. Dark Ages attempts to make a new model for FPS combat and it's fantastic. You have counters, dashes, multiple projectile types and melee options. It's just a lot more satisfying for me. All of it has weight and impact. All of it feels good while playing. A lot of it gets integrated into the gunplay as well, like shield dashing into a super shotgun blast, or using the nail gun to build up the pincushion bomb with the shield toss.
Enemies are imposing and can really rush you down attacking in your face, because if you have a defensive option it allows the enemies to be more aggressive. This is why enemies in Ninja Gaiden are more offensive than enemies in DMC. You can't block much in DMC.
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PurePlatinum
Member
My conspiracy theory is that they got told by MSFT to make it more accessible to a wider (gamepass) audience and thus had to cut the games balls off, resulting in the super dumbed down gameplay compared to Eternal.
Which would also explain why we did not see Hugo Martin making the marketing rounds like we did for 2016/Eternal. I think he knows it sucks and probably refused to go out and do a bunch of press for it.