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[culex-knight]

Not sure I buy this, then why are his games posted here?

Someone fucked up?

--

Why are you even in this thread if you keep saying you have nothing to do with league? No rules are being changed on you (read: you didn't follow the rules), you guys just came in here and started shitting up the thread with your "LOLOLOLOL I CURBST0MP 5 RAND0M BADDIES WIT MY FRIENDS LOLOLOL IHL NOT RLY LOLOLOL." If you're not playing IHL games, then kindly get out.

You seem upset, may I direct you to your nearest counseling center? Also, please reread my post, specifically who I identify as "we" and why I'm here, then kindly shut the fuck up, because you obviously cannot read.

 

[Procarbine]

Why did the scoreboard get posted in the IHL thread then.

EDIT: In that case just leave the thread. If it wasn't supposed to be IHL, and you're not mad about the game being discounted, why are you mad about "school children" being mad about video games on the internet? Just never open this thread again and forget it happened.

 

[culex-knight]

EDIT: I'm not mad because of being the game being thrown out-- I'm not in the league. I'm upset because you (implicit generalized pronoun) are shitting on me and Uzu when we didn't do anything.

 

[dorkimoe]

this is what happens when dark seer makes it through

this one was a great great game. dire was getting shit on in the beginning, soon as we started fighting as a team it was much better

 

[Telosfortelos]

Uzu was definitely advertising his game in the Neogaf lobby as a non-IHL game. I think there was a misunderstanding since all GAF games are using the same password. Can we at least use a different password for games meant for IHL?

I can confirm that Uzu didn't seem to know what the IHL was. He didn't start the game where Loki stomped with Morph. In fact, someone else started it, left the lobby, and I ended up with control of the lobby. There was a normal draft for that game, although it looks like the captains didn't really know the players, thus the imbalance. No one was kicked out of the lobby, I don't believe. I had control of the lobby, so I think I would have been the only one who could have kicked anyone.

Uzu started a lobby after the in house I was in. I joined the lobby, and a bunch of people were already joining one particular team. When Doombass asked them to get off so there could be a draft, Uzu said he didn't understand why it was necessary. Uzu asked what the IHL was. We had to explain to him that IHL required specific rules, including player drafting. Doombass directed him to this thread. Uzu said he wasn't interested in an IHL, only a regular neogaf in-house. I and about half a dozen other people left his lobby at that point, as we were looking for an IHL. I believe drkirby was there for this conversation, maybe he can confirm. Doombass definitely was, but I don't know who he is on gaf. Nobody was upset or anything, but there was clearly a misunderstanding. Uzu didn't do anything to rig the first game though, I'm sure of that. It just worked out with really bad teams.

Not sure I buy this, then why were his games posted here?

The game where loki stomped wasn't Uzu's game. He joined the game, but he didn't have control of the lobby or anything. I don't think he knew IHL existed at that point. He just played along when people started drafting players.

 

[the doombass]

I can confirm that Uzu didn't seem to know what the IHL was. He didn't start the game where Loki stomped with Morph. In fact, someone else started it, left the lobby, and I ended up with control of the lobby. There was a normal draft for that game, although it looks like the captains didn't really know the players, thus the imbalance. No one was kicked out of the lobby, I don't believe. I had control of the lobby, so I think I would have been the only one who could have kicked anyone.

Uzu started a lobby after the in house I was in. I joined the lobby, and a bunch of people were already joining one particular team. When Doombass asked them to get off so there could be a draft, Uzu said he didn't understand why it was necessary. Uzu asked what the IHL was. We had to explain to him that IHL required specific rules, including player drafting. Doombass directed him to this thread. Uzu said he wasn't interested in an IHL, only a regular neogaf in-house. I and about half a dozen other people left his lobby at that point, as we were looking for an IHL. I believe drkirby was there for this conversation, maybe he can confirm. Doombass definitely was, but I don't know who he is on gaf. Nobody was upset or anything, but there was clearly a misunderstanding. Uzu didn't do anything to rig the first game though, I'm sure of that. It just worked out with really bad teams.

This is correct, from what I saw when I was there.

 

[SteveWinwood]

Can't we all just get along?

 

[HK-47]

Uzu is a regular is steam gaf chat. He isnt meeru. Im not sure what actually happened with the game but that much I know. He doesnt have a hard on for Templar Assassin.

Also he doesnt post on gaf so he wouldnt have any idea about the IHL.

 

[Anbokr]

You seem upset, may I direct you to your nearest counseling center? Also, please reread my post, specifically who I identify as "we" and why I'm here, then kindly shut the fuck up, because you obviously cannot read.

you seem kinda upset bro

 

[Haly]

Can't we all just get along?

No, but I'm reading through these posts and an apology might be in order, assuming we feel like it.

There's still more important stuff on our plate though.

 

[culex-knight]

you seem kinda upset bro

I've stated several times I'm upset, bro.

 

[dorkimoe]

edit it crashed lol

 

[Sanjay]

This is correct, from what I saw when I was there.

OMFG ITS FUCKING MEERU AS HE JUST GOT A RAMPAGE.

And the UZUU SAGA
What we've got here is... failure to communicate, let bygones be bygones and move on.

 

[Artanisix]

Pretty sure I have had two friends post in this thread: vocab and kingslunk. Also, pretty sure I have the right to defend myself against accusations from butthurt school children.

You+Weenerz have been downtalking this community since you stepped into the thread. No rules have been changed and I never called you Meeru. We got reports from people who said Uzu was claiming IHL games and as admins of the league, we made the decision to stop our players from playing with Uzu and friends for their own good before the thread got flooded with games that shouldn't be here. I am personally sorry for claiming that Uzu rigged games as it appears he actually wasn't, I definitely pulled the trigger early there (Duesy posted a screen that he shouldn't have, got several false reports). That doesn't excuse you guys from waltzing into a thread you otherwise have zero interest in and shittalking everyone in this community.

You guys are obviously not interested in the ("garbage": your words) IHL, the discounted game doesn't effect you, nor does the ban on Uzu who doesn't care about the IHL, so please kindly do not enter our league or thread. The purpose of this league is to embrace our growing Dota community, not to tear it down with snobbery. Thanks.

 

[Procarbine]

I've stated several times I'm upset, bro.

Alright, on behalf of all those who jumped the gun, sorry for the mix up. In the future we are going to make it clearer when there's an IHL game happening.

If vocab is vouching, I'll give you guys the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Telosfortelos]

You+Weenerz have been downtalking this community since you stepped into the thread. No rules have been changed and I never called you Meeru. We got reports from people who said Uzu was claiming IHL games and as admins of the league, we made the decision to stop our players from playing with Uzu and friends for their own good before the thread got flooded with games that shouldn't be here. I am personally sorry for claiming that Uzu rigged games as it appears he actually wasn't, I definitely pulled the trigger early there (Duesy posted a screen that he shouldn't have, got several false reports). That doesn't excuse you guys from waltzing into a thread you otherwise have zero interest in and shittalking everyone in this community.

You guys are obviously not interested in the ("garbage": your words) IHL, the discounted game doesn't effect you, nor does the ban on Uzu who doesn't care about the IHL, so please kindly do not enter our league or thread. The purpose of this league is to embrace our growing Dota community, not to tear it down with snobbery. Thanks.

Regarding the Duesy screenshot, the majority of people in the game thought it was an IHL game. Uzu did not host the game, he joined it thinking it was a regular in-house. IHL rules were followed from start to finish.

 

[HK-47]

Weenerz probably just saw it as a new way to get banned on gaf. It was jumpy on your part though.

 

[Artanisix]

Definitely, and like I said, I'm sorry for jumping the gun. Haly and I felt like we had to act fast from the reports we were getting, especially since we're the ones manually inserting everything into the spreadsheet. The threat of having to sort through what's a legit game and what isn't would get real bad, real fast. We'll probably be asking people to use a different password or to properly label their games tomorrow when we change things up to prevent super-crunches and misunderstandings.

 

[culex-knight]

You+Weenerz have been downtalking this community since you stepped into the thread. No rules have been changed and I never called you Meeru. We got reports from people who said Uzu was claiming IHL games and as admins of the league, we made the decision to stop our players from playing with Uzu and friends for their own good before the thread got flooded with games that shouldn't be here. I am personally sorry for claiming that Uzu rigged games as it appears he actually wasn't, I definitely pulled the trigger early there (Duesy posted a screen that he shouldn't have, got several false reports). That doesn't excuse you guys from waltzing into a thread you otherwise have zero interest in and shittalking everyone in this community.

You guys are obviously not interested in the ("garbage": your words) IHL, the discounted game doesn't effect you, nor does the ban on Uzu who doesn't care about the IHL, so please kindly do not enter our league or thread. The purpose of this league is to embrace our growing Dota community, not to tear it down with snobbery. Thanks.

The only thing you could misconstrue into me shit talking your community is possibly thinking that "garbage" was intended to be all of you, when it was in fact intended to be in reference to this drama, and for any confusion there, I apologize. No other post comes even close to shit talking your community. While I don't necessarily care about your league nor community, I haven't come here to ruin it.

I don't know who the fuck Weenerz is. Vocab and kingslunk are my only two friends with registered GAF accounts. Uzu is also a friend, but he has no account (that I know of.) I will not stand to be thrown in with people I do not know. I have thus identified myself and who I am with three times now-- I hope it is clear.

Consequently there has be no "snobbery" on my behalf, but if you're honestly that intent on thinking I came here to rain on your DoTA parade, then whatever.

EDIT: You know what, "warstomp some bads" is probably a bit snobbish, and I will admit to that.

--

Alright, on behalf of all those who jumped the gun, sorry for the mix up. In the future we are going to make it clearer when there's an IHL game happening.
If vocab is vouching, I'll give you guys the benefit of the doubt.

Preciate it-- as well as the other apologies.

--

May I suggest screenshots of everyone saying "ihl," or something similar as well, before the game starts? It's how it was done in many FPS leagues in the past (screenshots of won/steamids, agreements, etc.)

 

[Haly]

Upcoming Changes to DOTA2GAF IHL

1) Players will be split into two tiers, newbGAF League and notnewbGAF League, spreadsheets will be split accordingly.

You can choose to play in either league, but not both, nor can you move between tiers for the time being until we figure out a way to handle this. Anyone is free to join notnewbGAF, but joining newbGAF will require our approval. Usually we will be able to tell this at a glance and would require no additional effort on your part.

2) All games in the Lobby need to clearly label themselves as a newbGAF IHL or a notnewbGAF IHL.

The host will be responsible for this, and if players wind up where they shouldn't, well, everyone will know who to blame. Furthermore, scoreboards posted in this thread need to be clearly labeled as either newbGAF or notnewbGAF, otherwise they will not be counted.

3) During this transition period, IHL games will continue as players demand but we cannot guarantee that all of them will be counted.

Since this split will drastically change the ratings of most players, it wouldn't make sense to keep putting effort into maintaining the spreadsheet. However, all games (and ELO changes) up to now will carry over. This means some players will be higher than they should be, and some lower, but since ELO variance isn't even +/- 50 yet that's not really a significant issue.

4)A new concede rule will be implemented for in house games.

In order to concede, everyone on the team that wants to concede must type "cc" in all chat after 20 minutes have elapsed, preferably together. This is so that if there is ever a dispute, we have some kind of hard evidence (either in the form of a screenshot or a replay). Once a concede has been confirmed by both teams in game, the winning team should just push down the throne and the losing team should disconnect or AFK at fountain. No dicking around farming 5 Divine Rapiers please, or defending your base after conceding.

5) I should mention again that posters should avoid quoting a scoreboard (not resizing the images, but creating a duplicate of it in another post).

This will reduce the risk of accidentally entering in a game twice and having to rollback or worse, award a player twice and penalize another player twice. We're tracking which games we've entered by post count (this is mostly being done by hand) and not by game ID. Break the image tags, please, it's not that hard, it's just one character.

 

[injurai]

Haly you're awesome. Ty for this.

 

[Telosfortelos]

I appreciate all y'all are doing to make the IHL happen. It really is very awesome of you.

A question though: isn't it beneficial to have very good players completely stomp others for ELO calculation? As the league starts, it will drive the difference in scores, which will make ELO changes more accurate as there's a greater spectrum of scores.

Related to this, I'm not sure how I feel about a newbie-league. I don't know what league I should be in. Obviously I was terrible in that one game, but I don't think I've played WR since dota1. I think I'm decent with quite a few heroes, but I don't know if I'm good enough to be in the non-newbie league. I honestly have no interest in playing in a newbie league, but I also don't want to deal with being told that I should be in the lesser league if it turns out I'm not good enough for the regular league. That is not a fun choice for me, and the fact of the split makes the league less compelling for me, as someone who hasn't been able to break into dota gaf. On the other hand, if your goal is to have some great games with only high level players, splitting up the player base would certainly improve that.

 

[Sarcastic Response]

Haly rocks. Now when I get my shit pushed in, I can blame it on being a newb!

Spoiler

Like I don't do this already lol

 

[Haly]

Credit goes to Pro and Milk as well since we're working on this together.

 

[Uriah]

I'm not the captain, he's waiting for approval, so I'm posting the match result.

 

[Drkirby]

I don't like the trying to split up GAF into two groups, I think we would be better in the long run to just keep it as one ladder.

 

[Sanjay]

Upcoming Changes to DOTA2GAF IHL

1) Players will be split into two tiers, newbGAF League and notnewbGAF League, spreadsheets will be split accordingly.

You can choose to play in either league, but not both, nor can you move between tiers for the time being until we figure out a way to handle this. Anyone is free to join notnewbGAF, but joining newbGAF will require our approval. Usually we will be able to tell this at a glance and would require no additional effort on your part.

WHOA WHOA splitting the community? really. All problems would have been fixed by playing this out more then two days.

Like how will I ever get to play with my EURO friends like Lirlond, Wes, Meteorain & Nilay if I go notnewbGAF and if I go newbGAF then I can't play with Pillow, Freakinchair & the sons of Odin etc.

 

[Grakl]

Yeah, I agree that there shouldn't be any splitting up, tier-wise. Keep everybody on one ladder.

 

[injurai]

WHOA WHOA splitting the community? really. All problems would have been fixed by playing this out more then two days.

Like how will I ever get to play with my EURO friends like Lirlond, Wes, Meteorain & Nilay if I go notnewbGAF.

as of now you choose what group to be in. Sounds like its more a newbGroup and catch-allGroup.

 

[Artanisix]

WE WELCOME ALL YOUR OPINIONS ON ANY CHANGES.

It is constantly being discussed, and I'm having regrets myself about possibly changing it into two leagues. Our main reason for doing so was to avoid serious swindles in our games... but as Anbokr pointed out, most games have been pretty good about policing themselves.

I guess I should ask: Have any of the self-proclaimed rookie players had troubles with the IHL so far? Are you OK with how things are going, do you feel like you're getting crushed too often, do you feel games have been pretty fun and balanced?

 

[Haly]

A question though: isn't it beneficial to have very good players completely stomp others for ELO calculation? As the league starts, it will drive the difference in scores, which will make ELO changes more accurate as there's a greater spectrum of scores.

Yes, except, it's not fun for newer players because the skill level difference is pretty drastic. It would be different if we were all new to DOTA2 and some of us just got into the beta before others, but we have semi-pro players with 5-6 years of experience here so matching them up wouldn't really be fun at all.

Related to this, I'm not sure how I feel about a newbie-league. I don't know what league I should be in. Obviously I was terrible in that one game, but I don't think I've played WR since dota1. I think I'm decent with quite a few heroes, but I don't know if I'm good enough to be in the non-newbie league. I honestly have no interest in playing in a newbie league, but I also don't want to deal with being told that I should be in the lesser league if it turns out I'm not good enough for the regular league. That is not a fun choice for me, and the fact of the split makes the league less compelling for me, as someone who hasn't been able to break into dota gaf. On the other hand, if your goal is to have some great games with only high level players, splitting up the player base would certainly improve that.

If you want to play in notnewbGAF IHL, you are free to apply to it once we reopen signups. If players give you shit, well, that's unavoidable, IHL or not. If these were just regular IH games you'd have 1.09 calling people "bags of shit" and bzm/neki telling people to "get dumpstered" anyway. The same is true of matchmaking, it's just part of the community unfortunately.

We want to give newbieGAF a chance to improve and play with each other without one or two experienced players completely dominating and warping their experience. So far, GAF groups (newbie or otherwise) have been very slipshod and difficult to organize, and that's one reason we came up with the IHL system in the first place.

We're also looking into maybe players getting bumped up from newbGAF to notnewbGAF (but usually not bumped down unless there's a good reason to). Any developments on this front will be posted here.

EDIT: As Artanisix/Milkman said, the situation is fluid, also possibly sticky. If there's enough people against the split, we may just continue with this system. Or create a new players league that people from this league can drop out for, assuming we have enough players to sustain it.

 

[Anbokr]

Really don't like this idea. Like, so I can't play with freakinchair anymore cause he's stuck in newbgaf??? But on a serious note, I don't see what the issue was with today's games. I see uzu games (separate case) and like 5 high tier games, 5 mixed games, and 5 newb games where it looked like everyone was having fun. This is dota. You can split dota2 gaf into 8 tiers and there will be games where one team will go 30-1, you can't prevent that--the game is so complex beyond simply player is X skill level. I saw a community that honestly policed itself in most games with peer pressure along with captains including an even number of new people on each side. I saw many many newbhouses played in general, with 0 people from hongaf or milkgaf or w/e gaf. Don't see a problem.

just my 2 cents

 

[KuroNeeko]

Japan time, but I can only play late at night after the kid goes to sleep (which might actually make it easier on the weekends, but during the week its probably not possible).

Hey, I'm up for games! My only DOTA experience is single player off the old WC3 mod. I'm in Japan time as well and only after the kid goes to sleep. (Not to mention there's no guarantee he'll stay asleep. :/)

 

[sprsk]

Hey, I'm up for games! My only DOTA experience is single player off the old WC3 mod. I'm in Japan time as well and only after the kid goes to sleep. (Not to mention there's no guarantee he'll stay asleep. :/)

Well then we must become DOTA partners

 

[1.09]

7/24/2012

 

[sorijealut]

I'm wondering where I should go. Probably newbie gaf as I don't know how to play every character or not sure on items half the time. Time wise I've played original dota for years though. Dota2 I also got in fairly early - that said I'm pretty knowledgeable but I just never got so good. lol sorry for life story

 

[Sarcastic Response]

7/24/2012

31-1!? Makes me feel bad just thinking what the other team was going through.

 

[KScorp]

I'm against splitting up the league. It adds a layer of additional complexity to organizing games. Over time, the ELO ratings will adjust themselves, and then we can start hosting matches by ELO rating, for instance 1600+-50 rooms, or something similar to prevent constant stomps. We have done a good enough job so far of keeping games fairly even where possible, and even in cases where they end up stomps, all that means is we're separating the players by skill, which is intended.

 

[Neki]

bans for the morph game

if we want one ladder, you guys will just have to accept until elo adjusts itself, there will be stomp games. we just have to accommodate and encourage people, and not try to get too mad at people playing poorly or way over their heads.

 

[dorkimoe]

Don't split. Let's just get the honor system going and do your best to not stack teams. Keep making sure everyone gets to play and include 2 noobs if possible

 

[Haly]

Maybe ELO penalties for trash talking.

Every "bags of shit" is -5 ELO.

Don't split. Let's just get the honor system going and do your best to not stack teams. Keep making sure everyone gets to play and include 2 noobs if possible

Not how it works sadly. Teams can't be prodded into balance. Otherwise you have newer players at 1500+ and experienced players at 1500- because every Experienced vs Experienced matchup involves one of those two teams losing.

For ELO to truly work, games have to be totally random (or matched by ELO and ELO alone). We're already skewing it as it is with player drafting. This would be easier if we had a WebApp or access to the API but we don't.

 

[bzm]

Maybe ELO penalties for trash talking.

Every "bags of shit" is -5 ELO.

bzm first player to hit 1200 elo without ever playing a match?

 

[Haly]

I don't think casting counts!

 

[Anbokr]

bzm first player to hit 1200 elo without ever playing a match?

yo bro u need to add some more espn in ur casting brah like srsly bro. needs more skip bayless

 

[Artanisix]

huge lycan picks

 

[Drkirby]

Maybe ELO penalties for trash talking.

Every "bags of shit" is -5 ELO.

Not how it works sadly. Teams can't be prodded into balance. Otherwise you have newer players at 1500+ and experienced players at 1500- because every Experienced vs Experienced matchup involves one of those two teams losing.

For ELO to truly work, games have to be totally random (or matched by ELO and ELO alone). We're already skewing it as it is with player drafting. This would be easier if we had a WebApp or access to the API but we don't.

Idea: Get 10 people who want to play, make a RNG choice the teams. Have them random rather then drafted.

 

[Haly]

Idea: Get 10 people who want to play, make a RNG choice the teams. Have them random rather then drafted.

Possible, and noted for future discussions.

 

[Meteorain]

bzm first player to hit 1200 elo without ever playing a match?

Apparently I've started at a base of -500 ELO

 

[Ikuu]

You can't really random to make teams at this point as you have people with similar ELOs and are in completely different skill levels.

 

[SamVimes]

I just checked the sheet, i'm in it two times: once as SamVines and once as Rael.