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[Solid warrior]

I think I'm going PC only next-generation.

 

[nelsonroyale]

Always online and no second hand games? Very poor strategy if true. Always online is crap, although not as big a deal as it was with Diablo 3 on my laptop.

 

[Tim the Wiz]

It'll be interesting to see the excuses from publishers (and so far, just this manufacturer) when eliminating the second-hand market for console games incurs negligible sales improvement.

 

[Sloane]

Why is anyone surprised by this? This gen brought us day one DLC, next gen will get rid of second hand games, the gen beyond that (if consoles still exist) will be stream / online only. I have no doubt that next gen will be awful, that's why I'm surprised so many people are looking forward to it.

 

[Cartman86]

Also, to those people who are saying this online only thing is the same as Steam, it's not. You can play your Steam games offline.

I'm speculating, but it will probably be just like Steam, but with a better offline mode. You'll have to be online to purchase a game or activate your disc code just like Steam. That activation code will then be on the console and allow that blu-ray to run. This code will let every user on that original console (both offline and online) play that game fully just like the current consoles do. The Gamertag you activated the game with has unlimited downloads and plays of that game on whichever Xbox you want as long as you are online when you play it. So it has the same rights management as the current Xbox, but with a one time activation for every new game.

If this is how it works it sounds perfectly reasonable to me as someone who loves Steam. Let's just hope the government steps in like they did in Europe and forces these companies to allow a path to selling our digital content.

 

[SirIgbyCeaser]

How will a retailer like gamestop feel about carrying the new xbox if this is true? They would side with the console that does allow games to be played.

Sony's president Jack Tretton saw DRM on used game as something negative. So sony's policy might be different.

 

[KageMaru]

NONE of this sounds good. WTF were they thinking (assuming this is true)?

 

[fabricated backlash]

I want this to be true just to see the fallout.

This is fucking delicious

What fallout? XBLG is also vehemently defended, people will just suck it up and bend over a bit more.

Fanboys have no spine to make a stand, at best they manage a pathethic whining sound like when a balloon is opened before falling back into place, and MS knows that.

I still doubt this, it would be ridiculously stereotypically evil for MS to do. But I absolutely expect them to drive the nickel and diming to new heights.

 

[witchedwiz]

AH!
always online? thanks, but no thanks.. Say my gf wants to watch a football match in stream? Or doing something that saturates the bandwidth?
LIKE.. no....
and.. no second hand??? ahahahahaha
NO

 

[BGBW]

In Europe (EU) publishers are not allowed to refrain you from reselling your downloaded games. The Court of Justice of the European Union has ruled that back in July 2012. It doesn't matter if you agreed to an(y sort of) EULA.

Eurogamer article about this.

I'm curious how Microsoft and Sony will solve this in Europe.

From the way MS handled the BBC iPlayer situation they'll strop around for ages thus delaying the European launch before eventually giving in. In turn this will cause everyone in the Americas to be pissed off because they'll still have this crazy idea forced upon them.

Japan won't even bother with the system either way.

 

[Teppic]

Won't buy if true.

 

[Hodders]

MS has just lost the UK market. One leaf on the cables and everyone's gaming sessions will be wiped out!

So true!!

 

[neptunes]

I can't imagine half of that stuff being true.

 

[BadWolf]

To people thinking Sony will be the savior of your monies, you're really putting your faith into Sony- the biggest proponent of price gauging and proprietary hardware in the electronics world? I used to be a huge Sony fan and in a lot of ways, I still respect them as a company. However, everyone knows they have an obsession with SOMETHING that will make their items more expensive than others. Whether it be memory sticks, proprietary memory cards, or whatever. I wouldn't be surprised if the PS4 was $100 but then you had to buy a separate $500 power plug because the proprietary one that comes with the PS4 has 8 prongs. Don't get me wrong, the other companies price gauge too (Xbox with Xbox Live and Nintendo with plastic "accessories"), but Sony definitely is not exempt from doing it.

Look at Playstation Plus, Sony has an idea what needs to be done.

They are in the toughest spot, coming from a generation that had them lose a lot of money and their crown. I see them risking as little as possible with the PS4.

Locking out used games is a huge freaking risk imo, especially when the WiiU hasn't done it.

 

[jet1911]

If these rumors turns out to be true their E3 conference will be a bloodbath here lol

 

[EdibleExplosives]

Can't wait to see all these "i won't buy one" wailers buy one when all their non-GAF reading friends do and start talking about how amazing Halo Next is, and why aren't they on XBL yet.

Lol, as if I have any friends.

 

[Ashes]

MS has just lost the UK market. One leaf on the cables and everyone's gaming sessions will be wiped out!

so true.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Forgive me for my ignorance, but how does one go about selling one's digital games?

Steam are currently working on a second hand marketplace in Germany to comply with this ruling.

 

[jaosobno]

Lol, as if I have any friends.

Epic.

 

[Nyx]

Will save my rage for when it's official.

 

[Officerrob]

How will a retailer like gamestop feel about carrying the new xbox if this is true? They would side with the console that does allow games to be played.

Sony's president Jack Tretton saw DRM on used game as something negative. So sony's policy might be different.

If true, Microsoft wouldn't be doing this on their own, this has to be coming from third parties as well, which means Sony too

 

[Cesar]

Though the architectures of the next-gen Xbox and PlayStation both resemble that of PCs, several development sources have told us that Sony’s solution is preferable when it comes to leveraging power. Studios working with the next-gen Xbox are currently being forced to work with only approved development libraries, while Sony is encouraging coders to get closer to the metal of its box. Furthermore, the operating system overhead of Microsoft’s next console is more oppressive than Sony’s equivalent, giving the PlayStation-badged unit another advantage

It is probably already answered but why wouldn't MS let devs code "to the metal"? What's the reasoning behind this?

 

[Gannd]

The WiiU doesn't have too many games I'm interested in besides ZombiU. I'll just get a PS3 when the price drops occur on eBay once the PS4 is announced.

The console is two months old.

 

[IrishNinja]

This is what SEGA has been waiting for.

? i wish i got this, you lost me though

Games are going to be so expensive to make. Money needs to be recouped somehow.

not this way tho, peter
for me, it's nearly the worst possible route they can take from here

They will do it and their bottom line won't take a hit. For all the uproar, people will soon forget and capitulate. Wait & see.

you know...after the way XBL gold turned out, i can't help but feel you're tragically onto something here, dave. it's entirely possible that the right price-point and some good XBL features with the right games would make this a non-issue, way faster than it should

 

[GitarooMan]

The author of the article used it in his title, so I'm not sure how else to take a direct quote. lol.

Anyways, how else would you interpret this as the opening to the article:



The most important thing is the first sentence really.

I know the title is in the article I just think that its ludicrous that online would be required every second. my Internet is decent but I still get dropped from Live pretty frequently. I'm just wondering if the author incorrectly assumed "requires Internet to function" (could be to activate games, etc. Like Steam) to mean constantly online.

 

[criesofthepast]

Like that never happens .........

The PS3 wasn't even taken seriously until OtherOS was removed. Taking away used games and implementing anti-consumer shit like this just gives the hackers that extra drive.

They could at least charge a little extra on used games so that Microsoft or Sony can gain something from it or at least the developers.

Publishers should have been doing this for years. Play hard ball with GameStop and demand a cut of used game sales. You'd think they would have a ton of leverage too. But no, its easier to go after the little guys. (gamers)

I buy new and never trade in my games so this doesn't affect me but taking away ones right to buy/sell used is ridiculous and I hope whatever company decides to do it get what's coming to them.

 

[Somnid]

You know I don't buy or sell used games but I still hate the idea because it's an unnecessary restriction. If physical games exist solely to transfer data but still need the internet then there really is no point in bothering is there? You've cut everyone else out at this point. Just go all digital. Although considering that online is barely functional without live this is even lamer especially because Live wasn't doing enough to justify the fee anyway. It definitely kills the value of the system for me.

 

[BadWolf]

Lol, as if I have any friends.

*high five*

 

[Napalm_Frank]

No second-hand games? I might believe if Sony does the same. Always online and refuses to function offline? No way that is true.

 

[Tom Penny]

Step in the right direction. Companies should get a cut if the game is sold the 2nd time around. I doubt they do.

 

[PBY]

? i wish i got this, you lost me though



not this way tho, peter
for me, it's nearly the worst possible route they can take from here



you know...after the way XBL gold turned out, i can't help but feel you're tragically onto something here, dave. it's entirely possible that the right price-point and some good XBL features with the right games would make this a non-issue, way faster than it should

Oh I agree. I just see both Sony and MS doing this.

 

[mackattk]

Microsoft - thanks, but no thanks. I currently have a PS3, Wii U, and a competent gaming PC. The only reason PC gets a pass from the way it handles DD is because of very very competitive pricing.

Having all these restrictions on the new console, with XBOX Live also costing $60/year is a bit ridiculous.

care to tell me how much sonic allstars racing transformed, far cry 3 and borderlands 2 are on these services right now? Actually I just looked them up myself, all the same prices, all as or more expensive than console versions

Steam sales. Also, I got Borderlands 2 WITH the season pass for ~$50 before the game came out.

 

[Coxy]

I wasn't talking about "Steam" I was talking about "PC". Equating the two is part of the problem.

Between GMG, Amazon, Steam sales and UK retail PC games are generally cheaper than console games by a significant margin. And that's without going into out-of-region buying.

As someone who buys tons of games on many platforms, the average I pay (outside of sales, around release) for PC titles is ~35€, and on consoles it's ~45€. The PC average will probably be significantly lower this year, with all the kickstarters releasing.

care to tell me how much sonic allstars racing transformed, far cry 3 and borderlands 2 are on these services right now? Actually I just looked them up myself, all the same prices, all as or more expensive than console versions

 

[Alej]

If true, Microsoft wouldn't be doing this on their own, this has to be coming from third parties as well, which means Sony too

Sony going third party confirmed!
MEGATON!

 

[Pie and Beans]

Ha ha ha, imagine if through the Xbox store for movies and video, that Kinect always on and reporting can see 2 people sitting on the couch waiting for Transformers 8 to begin.

"TWO ADMISSIONS REQUIRED".

 

[Alex]

So $50 vs $60 is twice?

On a personal note, barring used games is a suicide, specially if their main competitor Sony doesn't do it.

No one pays full price even for new PC games. You get them off GMG, Amazon, etc with stacked discounts, coupons, pre-order incentives, etc. They also all routinely go through promotions, seasonal sales, deep discounts, bundles and whatnot.

If Microsoft had a mature and open platform where publishers could avoid used sales but in turn slashed prices and went for the competitive and evergreen PC model, I don't think most people wouldn't care quite as much. When your brand new games are 30-35 and everything else is 5-15, it's not as much of a concern as when it's 60~ and anything lower is highly random and luck of the draw. But seriously what chance of happening would that ever have? Zilch.

 

[I NEED SCISSORS]

I think I'm going PC only next-generation.

If Orbis follows the same way with the anti-used, always online tactics, I will do the same.

 

[javac]

Haha, I rescind the "good people" status. You're clearly playing a side here. A shame, maybe you'll mature over the years when you gain more for funds for easy multi-console ownership.

I guess the irony is Nintendo couldnt even do this with the WiiU if they tried due to the lack of an account system and owning your games to redownload across boxes.

Damn I lost my good people status

No but seriously, its got nothing to do with sides. Not that it proves anything, and this thread isn't about me so I'l keep it short. But I do own all 3 consoles from this gen, likewise I owned the 3 Sixth generation consoles, N64 and PS1 during the Fifth generation and a sega Mega Drive during the Fourth etc. Yes I am skipping the PS4 and 720 (even-though I know nothing about them yet, so that could change) not due to funds. I have more then enough, I just like Nintendo games more? Is there anything wrong with that? You like PlayStation games more don't you? Its the same principal.

But even then what has that got to do with the comment I made? I was talking about how its not alien for all 3 companies to make foolish designs in their hardware and software and the more people realise that, the happier Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft fans will be.

Seeing as you went straight to attack Nintendo in your comment, I see that's not the case, Its all about sides to you it seems. But I digress.

 

[big youth]

I'm speculating, but you will probably be able to here as well. You have to be online to purchase a game or activate your disc code just like Steam. The system will then have that code on the console and allow that blu-ray to run. The code will probably give access to the game to every user on that original console and to your Gamertag that downloaded it on whatever console you want as long as you are connected to the internet. So basically the same as the current Xbox, but with a one time activation with every new game.

thanks for saving me the time of typing up something similar. before this topic I didn't realize how extremist people are here. always online could mean many different things.

 

[scitek]

Yeah: PC gaming is vile as well. Awful. SICKENING.

I say this as somebody in the industry who gives a shit about his livelihood and future ability to work on games: I'm fine with this.

Well, if used games were really such a problem, this should fix that. So, if the industry continues to bleed money, and studios continue to shutter, you guys will have one less scapegoat, and will maybe actually realize your own failures for a change. Maybe this is good.

 

[neptunes]

If true, Microsoft wouldn't be doing this on their own, this has to be coming from third parties as well, which means Sony too

Yeah, the used game bit sounds like something that was suggested by publishers and third parties. I guess online passes were the writings on the walls.

 

[SKINNER!]

Oh dear MS. What have you done?

Also, probably been posted already but this whole "one game per console/no second games allowed" thing has also been mentioned for the PS4.

 

[BillyBats]

I've been repeating myself lately but I think this may be the road console gaming HAS to go down in order to survive. As gamers, we've been very spoiled lately with the quality and quantity of games while the prices have remained the same, if not lowered. Game companies can no longer survive and are dropping like flies. Has no one noticed the mass closings of huge game studios? Why do you think that is? Prices for making games are eclipsing the costs for making movies. Unlike movies, games don't have the luxury of theater ticket sales and then dvd/netflix/cable/tv sales to recoup the money. Games have one channel. Direct sale. And we're shocked that they would implement something for not allowing second hand games? How do we honestly think these companies can stay in business? They can't, and it's showing. Only we don't want to see what's actually happening and want to continue dancing on the deck of a sinking ship.

Piracy has also played a huge part in destroying the industry. People seem to think that always online and strict drm's are implemented for the sole purpose of pissing us off. No, piracy is rampant and a HUGE problem and many people like to bitch about drm's and whatnot but offer absolutely no solution in combating the piracy. I think we've gone too far down a road and there is no turning around. I think gaming as it is today will be gone in 5 to 6 years. I think it will be all tablet/phone based and home gaming will regress back to something like a high tech cdi.

DOOOOM!!!

 

[Ashes]

If these rumors turns out to be true their E3 conference will be a bloodbath here lol

I doubt they'd mention this just like that.

I still call bullshit on this.

 

[dwu8991]

You know I don't buy or sell used games but I still hate the idea because it's an unnecessary restriction. If physical games exist solely to transfer data but still need the internet then there really is no point in bothering is there? You've cut everyone else out at this point. Just go all digital. Although considering that online is barely functional without live this is even lamer especially because Live wasn't doing enough to justify the fee anyway. It definitely kills the value of the system for me.

That's what MS wants everyone to do

Go Digital

Get with it !!!

 

[sphinx]

there's possibility that MS will take internet connection in households for granted.

I mean, you actually need a TV to use a gaming console and people don't get up in arms for that requirement.

MS requiering an always on internet connection could mean that according to their research internet connection may have the required household penetration so they go for it.

people with no internet whatsoever at home are an extremely small minority, more so in the countries MS cares about.

 

[Wiz]

I'll believe it when I hear it from MS.

 

[BruiserBear]

I don't give two shits about used games, but I am concerned about always online bullshit. I just hope Sony doesn't make the same mistake, so my choice of which console to buy is easier.

 

[IrishNinja]

Yeah: PC gaming is vile as well. Awful. SICKENING.

I say this as somebody in the industry who gives a shit about his livelihood and future ability to work on games: I'm fine with this.

as somebody who consumes a lotta games & gives a shit about both the health of the industry and my consumer rights: I'm not at all

SteamCast
SEGA x Valve


Launch Titles:
Half-Life 3
Shenmue 3


Total global domination.

oh god, this is what you were getting it, wasnt it rebel...don't do this to me man

 

[iNvid02]

always online part sounds fucking crazy, and the no used games makes it all too much.