My guess is its just whiny devs that don't like MS framework libraries handling certain tasks for them. Ultimately they are there as time savers but some devs probably just like doing everything themselves.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
EDGE: The next Xbox: Always online, no second-hand games, 50GB Blu-ray and new kinect
- Thread starter Hanmik
- Start date
I've lately felt that in order for me to be hyped for Microsoft's new platform, they'd have to pay me money for it. It looks like the only way I'd buy this fucking thing, if the no second-hand thing is true, would literally be if Microsoft gives me one for free. There is such a fucking nightmare with that I don't even know where the fuck to start. Hoping your product works forever, hoping activation/authentication is validated, the possibility of companies disabling the use of their game after a period of time...
If the second-hand thing is true, I sincerely hope Microsoft's Xbox team suffers unfathomable losses, and potentially goes under. That is a cancer that should never, under any circumstance, be supported on the console market. There is so much potential fuckery going on that could happen in the console space than what you can get on PC..
If the second-hand thing is true, I sincerely hope Microsoft's Xbox team suffers unfathomable losses, and potentially goes under. That is a cancer that should never, under any circumstance, be supported on the console market. There is so much potential fuckery going on that could happen in the console space than what you can get on PC..
Conciliator
Banned
Also adopting a wait-for-official-confirmation stance, this seems really bold, but in any case the implications for me would be pretty clear. If I can't use GameFly it's hard for me to justify purchasing a console when I can play new games right now great on my desktop PC and SteamBox is right around the corner. That means that Microsoft would have to convince me that it's exclusives are worth a $400-$600 entry fee and at least $60 per game to play them new. Those would have to be some incredible fucking exclusives. If the new playstation doesn't have these kinds of limitations and the XBox does, the PS3 will likely be the one I start with.
In fact they did the opposite and tried to cooperate with retail stores with their eShop prices.
That is why I want to know who is feeding Edge ... like how the press got trolled not long ago...
ubersticky
Member
Blah, bring it Sony, don't let me down 
Sir_Crocodile
Member
If either the no second hand thing or the online thing see the light of day this won't be a console I purchase.
RoninChaos
Member
Exactly. There's no way this is true.
Well the nice thing with PC gaming is that there's always a sale somewhere on the Internet. I don't care if I can't resell the copy of Assassin's Creed Revelations that I paid 7$, but we all know that retail console games don't drop in price so drastically.
Always online doesn't really bother me that much but the no used games is absolutely fucking bullshit if that ends up being true. If Xbox means no used games and PS4 allows them then MS can go screw themselves, I'll just have to live without playing Halo and other first party titles.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
Second hand prevention is almost expected to me for both systems, however, the activation process needs to add the game to your account. In essence upon activation it would also "purchase" a copy for you on XBLA or PSN.
The always online thing sounds way more intrusive. Granted when I play I am typically connected but there are times I don't want to be bothered by online friends and notifications. Not to mention we do have a lot of people in America at least that don't have access to high speed internet, so it presents a larger problem there.
The always online thing sounds way more intrusive. Granted when I play I am typically connected but there are times I don't want to be bothered by online friends and notifications. Not to mention we do have a lot of people in America at least that don't have access to high speed internet, so it presents a larger problem there.
this is a bombshell if Edge is right.
If any of the always on, no second hand shit is true, MS better have a plan to lure in customers, otherwise it's goddamn seppuku.
Can someone make a gif of Balmer committing seppuku as Kaz strikes his head off?
tons of japanese movies to rip the animation from.
MS solution to make it happen may just be price...I mean in france, Micromania offers a gaming subscription where you can play as many games as you want for a fixed price.
If Live 2.0 let's you play all upcoming games for a fixed per month fee, that might be ok with (hard)core players, whereas casuals will probably don't give a fuck anyway since most games they buy have a resale value of 1$ when they're done with them.
PS+ gets some love but as far as im' concerned it's the latest releases I care about, so offering me several months old games makes PS+ non-existent to me.
If any of the always on, no second hand shit is true, MS better have a plan to lure in customers, otherwise it's goddamn seppuku.
Can someone make a gif of Balmer committing seppuku as Kaz strikes his head off?
tons of japanese movies to rip the animation from.
MS solution to make it happen may just be price...I mean in france, Micromania offers a gaming subscription where you can play as many games as you want for a fixed price.
If Live 2.0 let's you play all upcoming games for a fixed per month fee, that might be ok with (hard)core players, whereas casuals will probably don't give a fuck anyway since most games they buy have a resale value of 1$ when they're done with them.
PS+ gets some love but as far as im' concerned it's the latest releases I care about, so offering me several months old games makes PS+ non-existent to me.
You can tell with the way the article is written that's it's false. It just screams they're making shit up.
Any true rumour wouldn't have to reference another either.
According to the rumor, it has all of the cons of PC gaming, and none of the pros. I hope it ain't true.
IrishNinja
Member
see, im inclined to agree, but then...if sony keeps online gaming free another gen, this could very well be another bullet point for them - PS+, plus the ability to rent/sell/borrow etc your games. i dunno, it's too early to call obviously but we definitely gotta hear more on this
you pointed to piracy, and rising development costs. those are definitely factors.
a broken, one-size-fits-all pricing structure is another: there's virtually no room for AA titles anymore. PSN and XBLA helped on the indie side, but we need way more, as steam has shown. which is why i can see the analogies throughout this thread, but:
a) i have a great deal more trust in valve than i do MS (despite the former's customer service)
b) prices on steam sales are something MS gets nowhere near, certainly by not with the degree of control they have over said ecosystem
moreover, if i had to point to one large reason for the closing of a number of those studios? you got a big part with the rising budgets/lack of ways to recoup, no doubt, but mismanagement and horrible expectations to justify said budgets strike me as much deeper problems...the fact that steam offers a way to recoup on some of those losses is of course fantastic, but it feels like a band-aid to a much larger problem: when companies like Namco expect Splatterhouse, Rise of the Titans etc to clear something close to a million copies sold, i'm relieved i don't have any stock in them.
EDGE is fairly trustworthy though, no?
If this "no second-hand games" think will be real, do you think that MS and Sony will communicate it?
I mean; obviously it's not something that could be underlined as a selling point, so I'd like to know: will we be allowed to know it before purchasing the console? or could this be something like a "firmware update" thing to come after the launch?
I mean; obviously it's not something that could be underlined as a selling point, so I'd like to know: will we be allowed to know it before purchasing the console? or could this be something like a "firmware update" thing to come after the launch?
peanutbutterlatte
Member
And it resulted in them being able to charge the max RRP which very few stores charge with the added benefit of not having to pay for manufacture and processing costs. Yeah I don't think Nintendo's taking any sort of hit here... I think it's more the fact that the used Nintendo games never hover much below their new price, due to the fact people will always pay for e.g. Mario at that price. There are a few exceptions with Zelda etc.
Glass Rebel
Member
Yu heard it here first.
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
Why not? Does it make it better if Sony does it too?
scytheavatar
Member
Still think that Nintendo is doomed?
I bought Sonic for $22 a few days ago and paid $60 for BL2 with the season pass. At launch.
PC games are cheaper. End of story. Cherry picking an example or two won't change the minds of a single PC gamer out there who knows how much cheaper it is overall when buying PC games compared to consoles.
PastorOfMuppets
Banned
This is awesome. The first meltdown thread of Next Gen Console begins.
For those of you to try and draw comparisons to Steam and PC gaming, historically PC gaming has not allowed for used game sales true. But:
In the CD-Key era of DRM, you could still sell your games but it'd be hard sell since there was no mechanism that could prevent you from writing down the CD Key and downloading a pirated version.
PC games tend to have a very, very, very, very long tale when it came to lifespan. Half Life had a retail shelf life of a good 4-5 years. Companies used to release mod tools to extend the lifespans of their games. Even games that didn't do well sales wise cultivated a niche following entirely because of mod tools. Tron 2.0 is a great example of an obscure game that while abandoned by the creators was kept alive for years by a small but dedicated community creating content on it. There is no equivalent of that on consoles. Games are routinely abandoned, lost or left incomplete.
Price discrimination is a concept that hasn't really hit console games yet; prices are very sticky and they don't drop below a certain threshold. I bought Deus Ex: Human Revolution for $5. During the THQ Humble Bundle period, I basically bought their entire catalog for $11. So while I can't resell my digital games, I can get them for 90% of what their Day 1 price was.
The long and short of it is that at least with PC games, there are tradeoffs to being digital only but you do get something in return.
Edit:
Also, while I think it's silly to jump to conclusions and automatically assume that the article is true, it's also just as silly to assume Microsoft is above doing something like this. Microsoft over the last decade has not been known for consumer friendly practices or smart business decisions.
For those of you to try and draw comparisons to Steam and PC gaming, historically PC gaming has not allowed for used game sales true. But:
In the CD-Key era of DRM, you could still sell your games but it'd be hard sell since there was no mechanism that could prevent you from writing down the CD Key and downloading a pirated version.
PC games tend to have a very, very, very, very long tale when it came to lifespan. Half Life had a retail shelf life of a good 4-5 years. Companies used to release mod tools to extend the lifespans of their games. Even games that didn't do well sales wise cultivated a niche following entirely because of mod tools. Tron 2.0 is a great example of an obscure game that while abandoned by the creators was kept alive for years by a small but dedicated community creating content on it. There is no equivalent of that on consoles. Games are routinely abandoned, lost or left incomplete.
Price discrimination is a concept that hasn't really hit console games yet; prices are very sticky and they don't drop below a certain threshold. I bought Deus Ex: Human Revolution for $5. During the THQ Humble Bundle period, I basically bought their entire catalog for $11. So while I can't resell my digital games, I can get them for 90% of what their Day 1 price was.
The long and short of it is that at least with PC games, there are tradeoffs to being digital only but you do get something in return.
Edit:
Also, while I think it's silly to jump to conclusions and automatically assume that the article is true, it's also just as silly to assume Microsoft is above doing something like this. Microsoft over the last decade has not been known for consumer friendly practices or smart business decisions.
the second-hand thing makes sense.. isn't sony doing the same? http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=506560&highlight=sony+second+hand
dragonelite
Member
Im pretty sure it will be a industry standard no wonder publishers want next gen to happen.
Dam if this is true im skipping next gen i buy most of my games day 1 or week 1 but i want to have the option sell them if i need some extra money or clear up library.
Maybe i will get next gen if game prices drop to $30 day one.
You know, second hand sales could work with the activation code thingy - being devil's advocate here- just sell new activation codes, means more money for the publishers, less for the stores, because the game disk would be almost worthless without the code.
The prices would have to be with it though,
I see several issues with that if they allow installs, site "sells" game and code, player installs, activates, returns game, plays since it is installed, sites sell game disk again with new code f for install to harddisk.
Not worried about always online perse due to my house being already always online-unless the internet service is out for some reason.
Of courseI am sticking with WiiU andPC this Gen.
The prices would have to be with it though,
I see several issues with that if they allow installs, site "sells" game and code, player installs, activates, returns game, plays since it is installed, sites sell game disk again with new code f for install to harddisk.
Not worried about always online perse due to my house being already always online-unless the internet service is out for some reason.
Of courseI am sticking with WiiU andPC this Gen.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Third parties would be waving goodbye to pretty much the whole European continent if they dropped Orbis should Sony detect the backlash and not activate their used game control system.
Wait... would a "no second hand games" policy prevent other accounts from using the same game in the one household? Or would it be tied to the system itself?
I've already run into troubles this generation with downloaded content only showing up in my profile. I was brought up to share my things, goddammit.
I've already run into troubles this generation with downloaded content only showing up in my profile. I was brought up to share my things, goddammit.
scar tissue
Banned
Wow, Durango is shaping up to be a pretty horrible console. I'll wait until the official unveiling to cast my final judgment, but if only half of the rumors are true, I'm not buying it for over $200.
Their Wii U is performing bad, they have nothing to be happy about either
And even though these consoles will come with restrictions, they'll probably sell more than the Wii U
MikeE21286
Member
Not with a Wii U, you don't.
Microsoft is a giant tech company.
Microsoft is thus aware of the poor state of current internet infrastructures, and that wi-fi networks in the home are still a luxury.
I refuse to believe Microsoft is stupid enough to have always-online (or even online-to-activate) a requirement.
Microsoft is thus aware of the poor state of current internet infrastructures, and that wi-fi networks in the home are still a luxury.
I refuse to believe Microsoft is stupid enough to have always-online (or even online-to-activate) a requirement.
*For the limited number of games that offer off-screen play.
IdreamofHIME
Member
Quite the bomb they're gonna have on their hands, looks like the crash is upon us.
Look forward to what survives it.
Look forward to what survives it.
And Asia as well, no? Japan, at the very least for sure.
Vestal
Junior Member
I find this extremely hard to believe, considering that they still expect to sell the games at brick and mortar stores, when most of the revenue from these brick & mortar stores(Gamestop) comes from the second hand market.
This would be a shot in the foot. Part of console gaming is lending and borrowing between friends.
This would be a shot in the foot. Part of console gaming is lending and borrowing between friends.
Well, you do need one to pair the Gamepad to the console.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
My apples are way better than your crummy oranges...
ShinobiFist
Banned
I don't believe the "always online" requirement. But CD keys(Or BD for a more accurate term)is very possible. And the library approach that MS is suggested of going with is very possible as well. The key figures(and passionate ones)are long gone from the company. Those very few from the beginning of XBOX to the early days of the 360 , were actually very passionate about gaming. Now, that vision has shifted dramatically over the last couple of years.