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[Supermanisdead]

You probably got thos same steam games for $5-10 too. Takes a bit of the sting out of not being able to trade a game when you paid a fraction of what your average console gamer pays. Try buying a majority of your games at $60 then come back and claim not to care.

Right? I remember a steam sale a few months ago where Batman: Arkham City was three dollars. Even for a year old game, it's still going for 30-40 (usually plus tax) on Xbox/PS3. For 3 dollars, I don't give a shit that I can't resell or give it away.

 

[Interrobang]

I think the reason I am responding the way I am is because I am pretty use to it on the PC. You dont game on the pc so it makes sense this would not go over well with you. I just went through the emotions you guys are gong through now a long time ago and ALOT of people then were up in arms over it and nothing came of it.

Sadly, even if alot of the posters on here that are saying they will boycott the next gen systems, I don't think anything will change.

That makes sense and I understand and sympathize with you. And this may be an argument in itself, but I feel like the console gaming community may have a bit larger pull into what we let the HD twins get away with than the PC community had during that time. Just an opinion, but since they're already killing off the core community/offline gamers/parents who don't want to spend $60+ on every new game with these changes, us hardcore gamers have a lot more power. If they lose us too, they literally have no market to peddle this shit to.

 

[BlackBanditSho]

Don't understand why the default position defending anti-used games is "Gamestop is scum".
Gamestop may be scum, but I haven't bought from GameStop in YEARS.

Some of my favorite gaming purchasing experiences have come from mom and pop gaming shops. I live in Los Angeles, and there are three phenomenal gaming stores that have incredible selection, good buy back prices, great customer service, and frequent sales.

I'm definitely one of those guys that will buy AAA games day-and-date on occasion, but will also try other, older games, from the used bins too. That, and borrowing from friends. Honestly, I've scaled back the day one purchases because there are simply too many, and 60+ bucks adds up. Why spend that money when, like clockwork, within two months you'll be able to buy it for $40.00?? $30.00 used??

This kind of thing kills the ability to lend games, kills accessing new experiences from overlooked titles, and it kills renting games on the cheap from places like Redbox and gamefly.

More, frankly, it's hurting the mom and pop business and the communal feel that these smaller second hand shops provide.

I have relatives whose entire gaming diet is comprised of recommended and used bin games. New titles are simply too expensive, and the publishers aren't interested in STEAM-like sales, nor creating newer pricing tiers.

This will bite the industry in the ass if everyone co-signs.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Alot of the PC games in the last few years have DRM.

But not always on DRM. And there are people who refuse to buy games with always on DRM.

Enough people in fact that Ubisoft have gone back to not having always on DRM, because it was hitting their bottom line.

So when you tell people they are not "passionate" enough about gaming to just bend over and take whatever shit a publisher throws at you, you are being a dick.

 

[AgentP]

The edge article is nothing more than sony fanboyism flamebait.

The same Edge that has systematically inflated 360 exclusives review scores over Sony and mult-platform games? Maybe they had a change in management!

 

[Biggzy]

Considering EDGE is a UK published magazine(where the PS brand is heavily favored)

I'm calling bullshit.

There's no way MS would piss off both its users aaand retail partners.
Plus limiting its functionality to those with online only they'd basically be eliminating about half of their userbase.

The edge article is nothing more than sony fanboyism flamebait.

The 360 has actually made huge gains in the UK market for MS - it's no where near as pro Sony as what it used to be when I was growing up.

 

[TheJollyCorner]

Sony has researched new tech for suppressing second-hand game sales

they've been doing this since the PS2 days, though.

Naturally they were preparing their masterplan for the PS4 back in 2005.

 

[Spongebob]

Don't understand why the default position defending anti-used games is "Gamestop is scum".
Gamestop may be scum, but I haven't bought from GameStop in YEARS.

Some of my favorite gaming purchasing experiences have come from mom and pop gaming shops. I live in Los Angeles, and there are three phenomenal gaming stores that have incredible selection, good buy back prices, great customer service, and frequent sales.

I'm definitely one of those guys that will buy AAA games day-and-date on occasion, but will also try other, older games, from the used bins too. That, and borrowing from friends. Honestly, I've scaled back the day one purchases because there are simply too many, and 60+ bucks adds up.

This kind of thing kills the ability to lend games, kills accessing new experiences from overlooked titles, and it kills renting games on the cheap from places like Redbox and gamefly.

More, frankly, it's hurting the mom and pop business and the communal feel that these smaller second hand shops provide.

I have relatives whose entire gaming diet is comprised of recommended and used bin games. New titles are simply too expensive, and the publishers aren't interested in STEAM-like sales, nor creating newer pricing tiers.

This will bite the industry in the ass if everyone co-signs.

All of this is so true.

Currently I would say about 60% of the games I own are used. If next-gen is anti-used then I'm going to start PC gaming.

 

[H_Prestige]

Third console curse.

 

[Danthrax]

Dude or Dudette, the industry would die with rates like that. Clearly you're someone who doesnt carry a fat-back-log. I myself have about 12 games I still want to finish. This policy would allow me to rent one for a month, maybe put 8-10 hours into it, it expires then when I feel like playing it again, I buy another license.

I have an insurmountably large backlog, unfortunately. I base my estimated prices and timeframes on the movie rental business. When Blockbuster and others were still in business, it was about $5 to rent a pair of new movies for one night. As the movies aged, they would be offered for two nights and eventually five nights, still for about $5.

I think it's reasonable to tweak that to the video game industry digitally renting games by saying $5 for 48 hours and $10 for five days. And as Matt said in the post after yours, I'm probably lowballing my estimates.

 

[Aquamarine]

I think we saw this coming with the $99 "Xbox Live mandatory" experiment Microsoft did. It was just a matter of time.

 

[NullPointer]

So when you tell people they are not "passionate" enough about gaming to just bend over and take whatever shit a publisher throws at you, you are being a dick.

Hammer. Nail. Head.

 

[Eideka]

All of this is so true.

Currently I would say about 60% of the games I own are used. If next-gen is anti-used then I'm going to start PC gaming.

I don't see how PC gaming is the answer...Used games are not a thing in the PC space, and it has been for quite some time.

 

[jaypah]

You hope anyway, apparently. There is no evidence to back this up besides Sony looking into it a year or so ago. This rumor is about MS and MS only.

so a rumor and a patent. One shows interest in doing it(and as a result already had it's own rumor), the other is a rumor(which probably has it's own patent). I said earlier that I wouldn't buy a 720 if this was the case but seeing as all we have to go on is a rumor and a patent I think I'll just wait and see how this plays out. Way too early for me to judge anyway.

 

[Lord Error]

Why is it depressing? Its true.. and 2-3 years from now it will be how pc gamers feel right now... whats the big deal?

What PC gamers feel right now is that they can buy $60 games for $5 from Steam if they wait a month, or get a bunch of smaller games for $1 from Humble Bundles. Good luck having that on consoles in 2-3 years.

I don't see how PC gaming is the answer...Used games are not a thing in the PC space, and it has been for quite some time.

Probably because on PC you can download games for cheaper than buying used on consoles. Sometimes much cheaper.

 

[Rebel Leader]

Hammer. Nail. Head.

I think we saw this coming with the $99 "Xbox Live mandatory" experiment Microsoft did. It was just a matter of time.

I think I remember that

 

[Spongebob]

I don't see how PC gaming is the answer...Used games are not a thing in the PC space, and it has been for quite some time.

Yes, but prices are so much lower on PC that I could handle not being able to sell my games. Those kinds of sales simply won't happen on consoles, MS and 3rd parties are too greedy for that.

 

[Jb]

Considering EDGE is a UK published magazine(where the PS brand is heavily favored)

I'm calling bullshit.

The edge article is nothing more than sony fanboyism flamebait.

A) That's really stupid reasoning.
B) The UK is a huge 360 market. Look up the numbers.

 

[ACH1LL3US]

That makes sense and I understand and sympathize with you. And this may be an argument in itself, but I feel like the console gaming community may have a bit larger pull into what we let the HD twins get away with than the PC community had during that time. Just an opinion, but since they're already killing off the core community/offline gamers/parents who don't want to spend $60+ on every new game with these changes, us hardcore gamers have a lot more power. If they lose us too, they literally have no market to peddle this shit to.

I know, it really does suck, sometimes my internet goes out... its not ideal but what can I do to change it if I still want to play next gen games? Deciding not to buy a next gen console is just not what I am going to do..

But not always on DRM. And there are people who refuse to buy games with always on DRM.

Enough people in fact that Ubisoft have gone back to not having always on DRM, because it was hitting their bottom line.

So when you tell people they are not "passionate" enough about gaming to just bend over and take whatever shit a publisher throws at you, you are being a dick.

FINE. I am a dick.

 

[Baconsammy]

Kinect, ads, DVR, bloatware and now always online and no used games. Why would anyone even want to be a nextbox? It's as if MS are actively trying to get people to stay away from their box.

It's the return of Spongebob and his Boated DVR song. Show us all again the leaked port specs that point to the new Xbox functioning as a stand-alone DVR.

 

[ii Stryker]

The same Edge that has systematically inflated 360 exclusives review scores over Sony and mult-platform games? Maybe they had a change in management!

ok they need to check the reliability of their source then.

If true, this would be nothing but catastrophic for MS. GAF really can't see how absurd this notion is.

MS has sold 80 million 360's world wide and only 40 million are on XBL.
XBL is somehow popular, but not popular enough to bank your entire next gen strategy on. plus they'd be alienating the lions share of their retail partners.

its a silly notion, plain and simple.

 

[Kujo]

Considering EDGE is a UK published magazine(where the PS brand is heavily favored)

UK is MS land

 

[NullPointer]

FINE. I am a dick.

Its liberating to let it all hang out.

 

[Crag Dweller]

You probably got thos same steam games for $5-10 too. Takes a bit of the sting out of not being able to trade a game when you paid a fraction of what your average console gamer pays. Try buying a majority of your games at $60 then come back and claim not to care.

Thats your fault if your buying games at $60.

 

[ACH1LL3US]

Its liberating to let it all hang out.

Ha.. pun intended?

 

[flyinpiranha]

On this page alone.. once they show stuff like Halo, Gear, Uncharted, Gran Turismo, Forza, etc on next gen... your gonna say those look awsome BUT I can't buy the system because I cant resell the game when I beat it or get tired of it?

Steam has shown this business model can work. I would imagine Sony and MS have watched that as-well as devs.

But here's the problem, assuming those are the games that get us to buy the system (and honestly I'm willing to pay full price for games I know I will like such as the ones you listed) it doesn't guarantee we'll buy your new stuff or new IPs. This isn't going to help out developers in the long run IMO.

It's already difficult to start a new IP in this climate, now make it so I can't rent it, can't borrow it, can't even buy it for a few bucks cheaper somewhere? Yeah, I probably will just skip it.

It's like seeing movies for me, I used to go all the time, but now it's so incredibly expensive that I rarely go, but I will go once or twice a year. Is that the ecosystem they want? People saving their pennies for the major titles that they know will deliver, never trying new IP for fear of wasting $60?

It just doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense for developers that don't have a 'Halo', or a 'Forza', or a 'GTA' in their stable to even want this. It seems like only a few developers would be on board because without a used market you don't have kids trading in older games to buy newer ones. You don't have people picking up a used Borderlands that gets them interested in Borderlands 2 on launch.

 

[Interrobang]

I know, it really does suck, sometimes my internet goes out... its not ideal but what can I do to change it if I still want to play next gen games? Deciding not to buy a next gen console is just not what I am going to do..

I know things seem bleak, and they probably are for PC gaming, but we can still save our consoles by pushing back on this shit. Of the 80 million consoles, 40 million are offline, as someone above me pointed out. Right there they alienated half their fan base. Then of that 40 mil leftover, how much are casuals? How much are children who occasionally get a used game from their parents for doing well in school? How many of them are us? I think we can potentially stop this.

FINE. I am a dick.

That's it, guys! Pack it up! We got him to say it!

 

[phisheep]

The problem is, this is clearly a case of the suits/big publishers/etc. wanting to have their cake and eat it too. They want all the money. They want $60, $10-$15 DLC packs, $2 microtransactions, $30 season passes, no used game market. It's greed, pure and simple, and eventually it will lead to a crash. Companies push consumers around for as long as they can get away with it, but eventually consumers will push back and not buy the console.

If it's not this, it'll be something else in the near future. The video game industry has gotten too greedy for its overall good, and someday soon the line is going to be crossed and all the big companies will pay for it. No matter how many people don't care about these policies, the current video game market is not sustainable. Activision, EA, Microsoft, etc., they are all about the now. The $$ they can get at the current moment, which is why they make such a big deal about used games: it's money they aren't getting.

Agreed, but this may not at all be a bad thing in the long run. It'll crash, but the talent will still be there in the marketplace. The suits will have gone, the investors will be burnt and the excuses worn out. But there are consoles out in the wild, customers at the ready and there's money on the table (and I bet there's a good few private projects under the table at the big companies). Somebody's going to come out and make a go of it - and preferably somebody with a touch more customer focus and a little less franchise-based and a little more focused on what's happening now and in the future rather than gearing themselves up for what they planned three years ago.

 

[ACH1LL3US]

I know things seem bleak, and they probably are for PC gaming, but we can still save our consoles by pushing back on this shit. of the 80 million consoles, 40 million are offline, as someone above me pointed out. Right there they alienated half their fan base. Then of that 40 mil leftover, how much are casuals? How much are children who occasionally get a used game from their parents for doing well in school? How many of them are us? I think we can potentially stop this.



That's it, guys! Pack it up! We got him to say it!

Eh... you can't go against THE GAF....

Also, I am not supporting what they are proposing, it just wont keep me from buying a next gen console like some other posters on here
so vehomently state.

 

[brokenbeans]

No second hand games.

£24.99 RRP per game confirmed.

Spoiler

;_;

 

[bigace33]

Thats your fault if your buying games a $60.

Huh? I don't buy games at $60. I was answering the guy who said he doesn't care because he can't sell his steam games. I was trying to show him...oh just forget it.

 

[Big Takeover]

I think his point is, once you've killed off the customers ability to sell games, why would the publisher or the console manufacturer even offer an option like that? They would be solving a problem that no longer exists.

It's a concession to the consumer.

I just don't think it's possible that they would green-light killing people's current ability to re-coup some money to buy more games. It would doom their console, and probably the industry too, imo. I just can't believe they'd do that in the face of some uncertainty over next-gen anyway, without some added benefits to help offset it. Like I said before, the fight is over the money that changes hands after the point of sale, not with the consumer.

It would never happen if there wasn't already a used game market though, that's for sure!

 

[Eideka]

Probably because on PC you can download games for cheaper than buying used on consoles. Sometimes much cheaper.

Do you think MS and Sony are stupid enough not to take that into account ? If they really plan on suppressing the used market then they will have to accomodate for such move.

You can bet that console prices will go down and sales will be more commonplace next generation

 

[Ziek]

What's really going to suck is when my internet goes out. Doesn't happen often, but it will be a bummer to not even be able to use the new Xbox.

 

[Oppo]

Considering EDGE is a UK published magazine(where the PS brand is heavily favored)

I'm calling bullshit.

There's no way MS would piss off both its users aaand retail partners.
Plus limiting its functionality to those with online only they'd basically be eliminating about half of their userbase.

The edge article is nothing more than sony fanboyism flamebait.

I'm really surprised at how people are just outright disbelieving the article. EDGE would throw their entire reputation out the window if it were blatant lies. It's not worth it for them to play PR games like this, be realistic.

 

[Mortimer Brewster]

Thats your fault if your buying games at $60.

If Microsoft pulls this nonsense, you won't be able to get games for less then 60$. It will have all the downsides of PC DRM but none of the upsides. This whole thing has been concocted to satiate the greed of the AAA Publishers.

 

[angelfly]

Do you think MS and Sony are stupid enough not to take that into account ? If they really plan on suppressing the used market then they will have to accomodate for such move.

You can bet that console prices will go down and sales will be more commonplace next generation

You can bet that they'll go up since they don't have to compete with the second hand market.

 

[DeviousAngel]

I'm curious as to how this would work... Would game purchases be tied to your gamertag or to the system? I can foresee some issues in either case. And are they saying you absolutely NEED an Internet connection to play games?

This just... sounds weird.

 

[Wazzim]

DOA.

There is no way you can force an always-online infrastructure.

 

[Yasae]

But does it? I'm not sure how they'd implement it, but forcing a 1:1 link between a game and a console does a bit more than block used games. Borrowing games, renting games...done. I know they can see the potential problem here...I don't know, I just don't believe this rumor. It's way too extreme.

I guess we'll see. Historically it's been a "grab your ankles" proposition.

 

[Neuromancer]

Considering EDGE is a UK published magazine(where the PS brand is heavily favored)

I'm calling bullshit.

There's no way MS would piss off both its users aaand retail partners.
Plus limiting its functionality to those with online only they'd basically be eliminating about half of their userbase.

The edge article is nothing more than sony fanboyism flamebait.

You blew the whole thing wide open right there

 

[Skilletor]

Do you think MS and Sony are stupid enough not to take that into account ? If they really plan on suppressing the used market then they will have to accomodate for such move.

You can bet that console prices will go down and sales will be more commonplace next generation

Microsoft charges you to play online, have access to netflix and other services, and get demos the day they come out. I don't know what a company like that is silly enough to do if they think they can get away with it.

 

[kinoki]

If I had to pick get a digital download with every box-purchase or second-hand games I'd pick option number one. I wouldn't mind having to register a game to my profile with a CD-key in order to play it.

In order to get rentals working I'm ever for a 7-day pass for the entire game. Buy a rental license and play for a while. With a maximum of 2 or 3 for every game but no downloadable version.

 

[Ushae]

lol @ people wanting to switch to PC if MS go the anti used games route. Steam/Valve is the very reason MS/Sony would be adopting this philosophy in the first place.

I think the report is exaggerated. My impression is that MS wants to reduce the loss from used game sales, but they won't shoot themselves in the foot in doing so.

- I think they'll have ID keys for every game, that binds to the first user every time.
- They will create a marketplace within their own ecosystem to allow these users to resell these games digitally, effectively cutting out the retailer.
- Each resale will generate a small profit towards MS/Devs.
- Seller is happy, buyer is happy, MS/Devs get what they wanted by gaining returns on their games. Ultimately the losers are the retailers.

At least that's one way of implementing it without inducing a riot. MS can't be that stupid ... right?

 

[Mortimer Brewster]

I'm really surprised at how people are just outright disbelieving the article. EDGE would throw their entire reputation out the window if it were blatant lies. It's not worth it for them to play PR games like this, be realistic.

I'm surprised that people don't think Microsoft is greedy enough to do it and seem to conveniently forgot the companies long history of anti consumer activities.

 

[DR2K]

Microsoft’s next console will require an Internet connection in order to function

WuT tHe FuCk?

 

[Uno Venova]

Considering EDGE is a UK published magazine(where the PS brand is heavily favored)

I'm calling bullshit.

There's no way MS would piss off both its users aaand retail partners.
Plus limiting its functionality to those with online only they'd basically be eliminating about half of their userbase.

The edge article is nothing more than sony fanboyism flamebait.

Some of you dudes are really getting off your rocker.

 

[ii Stryker]

I'm really surprised at how people are just outright disbelieving the article. EDGE would throw their entire reputation out the window if it were blatant lies. It's not worth it for them to play PR games like this, be realistic.

real news is relatively slow and they live off ad revenue so need to get those clicks on their website up. Aannd voile'a, look at those hits a comin.

your naive' if you think otherwise.

Some of you dudes are really getting off your rocker.

you're off your rocker if you actually think MS is just going to willingly hand over 40 million users to their competition.

 

[abadguy]

Microsoft charges you to play online, have access to netflix and other services, and get demos the day they come out. I don't know what a company like that is silly enough to do if they think they can get away with it.

Not being able to play MP without Gold is still a far cry from not being able to play games at all without an internet connection.

 

[blu]

Clever marking by Microsoft; release horrible rumor, when only half of said rumors are true people celebrate.

Yeah, I expect the 'used games at 50% price reduction' in tiny print at this e3.