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[Oppo]

I'm surprised that people don't think Microsoft is greedy enough to do it and seem to conveniently forgot the companies long history of anti consumer activities.

Yeah pretty much. I wish they weren't, 'cause they do some really great work... I've long felt that MS was a combination of great engineers and blinkered, dickish execs who hamstring them.

And yeah, sadly, I think if they end up being really heavy handed about the used games thing... sadly... I think the core might revolt a bit, lots of message board gnashing and wailing, but of course not the CoD crowd 'cause they are online anyways... and the rest will just suck it up. I don't really like that one bit but I have no trouble seeing the possibility. I don't even think MS would take that big of a PR hit. Seems unthinkable to us but it's not really about us.

real news is relatively slow and they live off ad revenue so need to get those clicks on their website up. Aannd voile'a, look at those hits a comin.

your naive' if you think otherwise.

There are much, much easier and less work-intensive ways to generate hits. A plethora of Top 10 lists, for example. I do think EDGE has a reputation to protect, they very rarely tread into crazy rumour territory historically speaking.

 

[Bsigg12]

Doesn't this kind of play into the idea of two separate consoles? I mean have one that has no disc drive, a huge harddrive and is strictly a set top box that is more for people who want access to digital media and also play games if they want to download them hence the no used games.

Then the gamer edition with the bluray drive and a little smaller hard drive because you won't necessarily be downloading everything. Which won't eliminate used games but if they absolutely feel the need they can make them glorified demos where you have a time limit on the gameplay but nothing is actually locked down.

Each comes with Kinect 2.0 that while won't force developers to incorporate motion controls but allow for some more intuitive uses because of better processing and a better camera/higher fidelity mic array.

 

[NullPointer]

Microsoft charges you to play online, have access to netflix and other services, and get demos the day they come out. I don't know what a company like that is silly enough to do if they think they can get away with it.

Exactly. When looking at the history of the Xbox where is there room for optimism?

 

[Dunlop]

DOA.

There is no way you can force an always-online infrastructure.

Steam says Hi!

I don't believe it would require always online just because it would limit the audience they could sell to.

That said, Microsoft makes money of the services they offer so who knows

Exactly. When looking at the history of the Xbox where is there room for optimism?

gimme a break, I am more optimistic about MS keeping the industry moving than Sony and Nintendo combined

 

[Deuterium]

WuT tHe FuCk?

I guess there was a point in time when people who previously owned a hand-cranked Victrola phonograph, were pissed when they found out that the next generation of record players required electricity.

 

[bigace33]

Not being able to play MP without Gold is still a far cry from not being able to play games at all without an internet connection.

None of those other things in his post jumped out at you? You already pay for other subscription services, and they have no qualm about making you pay them to utilize your paid services.

 

[KAP151]

I can sort of see them doing the whole activation code for games, but the always online notion is an absolute death knell.

It would alienate a massive amount of potential customers and severely piss off a whole lot more.

 

[Mortimer Brewster]

lol @ people wanting to switch to PC if MS go the anti used games route. Steam/Valve is the very reason MS/Sony would be adopting this philosophy in the first place.

I think the report is exaggerated. My impression is that MS wants to reduce the loss from used game sales, but they won't shoot themselves in the foot in doing so.

- I think they'll have ID keys for every game, that binds to the first user every time.
- They will create a marketplace within their own ecosystem to allow these users to resell these games digitally, effectively cutting out the retailer.
- Each resale will generate a small profit towards MS/Devs.
- Seller is happy, buyer is happy, MS/Devs get what they wanted by gaining returns on their games. Ultimately the losers are the retailers.

At least that's one way of implementing it without inducing a riot. MS can't be that stupid ... right?

How would this digital sellback system work for retail game discs which Durango will still have?

 

[Dion Blaster]

And what would you do if both charge for online or both go the DRM route? No next gen gaming for you?

Probably just Wii U for me. I hope PS4 doesn't though.

But there are many other ways to spend my time and money.

 

[alr1ght]

How does Sony handle those crossbuy titles on PS3/Vita? From what I understand it only activates the Vita copy once from the disc. Obviously the same tech could be used here.

 

[Tookay]

lol @ people wanting to switch to PC if MS go the anti used games route. Steam/Valve is the very reason MS/Sony would be adopting this philosophy in the first place.

So, if Microsoft basically removes one of its only advantages/distinctions over PC, those people are silly for wanting to jump ship?

 

[YuriLowell]

gimme a break, I am more optimistic about MS keeping the industry moving than Sony and Nintendo combined

The only thing innovative microsoft has done is in the advertising space.

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

Unlike Steam, I HIGHLY DOUBT we'll see crazy seasonal sales, which is what makes Steam so great.

Games on Demand games are still full retail price. Think we'll see crazy Steam-like sales? Doubt it.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

The only thing innovative microsoft has done is in the advertising space.

Having a non-functional console unless you're online and having ads beamed at you is pretty innovative in all fairness.

 

[Pojo_King]

I think that the always-online thing is a bigger deal than the no-used games. Does that mean Microsoft will require people to have an xbox live membership?

I think making payments to xbox live not optional would be the death knell for the durango. Especially for the casual Kinect market.

 

[Eusis]

I don't see how PC gaming is the answer...Used games are not a thing in the PC space, and it has been for quite some time.

PC and consoles have unique advantages and disadvantages, one of the differences being pug and play accessibility on consoles similar to a movie player and PC has modibility and near perfect BC as it were. Also consoles tend to be much cheaper and PCs (potentially) much more powerful. If we lose those advantages on consoles without the really good advantages of PC (though hoping with x86 may have been for BC partially) then I'd rather go all out with the PC. Especially with how often they get console multiplats anyway.

 

[Dunlop]

The only thing innovative microsoft has done is in the advertising space.

That and sold games

 

[El_Chino]

Has any insiders or devs commented on this on GAF?

 

[jwhit28]

Unlike Steam, I HIGHLY DOUBT we'll see crazy seasonal sales, which is what makes Steam so great.

Games on Demand games are still full retail price. Think we'll see crazy Steam-like sales? Doubt it.

You don't even need crazy sales. Compare any Games on Demand price to a Steam price right now.

NBA 2k13 $60 on Games on Demand
NBA 2k13 $30 on Steam

 

[BeekleMatter]

There is absolutely no way this is true.

 

[Mortimer Brewster]

Yeah pretty much. I wish they weren't, 'cause they do some really great work... I've long felt that MS was a combination of great engineers and blinkered, dickish execs who hamstring them.

And yeah, sadly, I think if they end up being really heavy handed about the used games thing... sadly... I think the core might revolt a bit, lots of message board gnashing and wailing, but of course not the CoD crowd 'cause they are online anyways... and the rest will just suck it up. I don't really like that one bit but I have no trouble seeing the possibility. I don't even think MS would take that big of a PR hit. Seems unthinkable to us but it's not really about us.


There are much, much easier and less work-intensive ways to generate hits. A plethora of Top 10 lists, for example. I do think EDGE has a reputation to protect, they very rarely tread into crazy rumour territory historically speaking.

Most of their great engineers are gone now and all that is left are the dickish execs.


I'm not sure if they will be able to get away with this one especially if Sony doesn't follow through with anti used games tech on Orbis. If Sony still supports used games, the core gamers early adopters would flock to it, generating the word of mouth that would likely influence the dudebro gamer, who won't jump generations for at least or two after the next gen consoles launch, to purchase the Orbis instead of the Durango. In that case if Sony captures both the core and duebros that would likely put an end to this anti consumer crap that Microosft wants to peddle.

 

[Charrettizard]

Edge posted another article to follow up this one, and I quote:

If our sources are correct (and we’re confident they are), Microsoft has made the move that publishers and developers have been asking for. Microsoft’s next Xbox will do what Steam and the App Store have been doing for years, and very successfully, too – a download-first, one profile, one purchase, one storefront system. Overnight, it’ll stop GameStop and GAME from selling on games without a penny heading back to its publisher, let alone its creator.

Edge is not Kotaku: they don't start rumors. Prepare yourselves.

Full article here:
http://www.edge-online.com/features/risky-business-the-next-xbox-versus-playstation-4/

 

[CLEEK]

Steam says Hi!

I don't believe it would require always online just because it would limit the audience they could sell to.

That said, Microsoft makes money of the services they offer so who knows

MS will be targeting non-gaming revenue far more than gaming revenue. As far as MS is concerned, an offline, gaming only consumer doesn't fit in with their business plans. They want consumers who are willing and able to use the non-gaming services, which can only be used of the Xbox3 is always online. Some kid in his bedroom with retail copy of GTA is not the demographic they're after.

It will be interesting how Gold and Silver Live will come into play this time around. If all consoles are online, it will be very hard for MS to justify the Live tax to enable online services.

 

[Natiko]

I easily invest most of my gaming time on the 360 but if Microsoft does go with such an anti-consumer move then I'm out.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

Unlike Steam, I HIGHLY DOUBT we'll see crazy seasonal sales, which is what makes Steam so great.

Games on Demand games are still full retail price. Think we'll see crazy Steam-like sales? Doubt it.

Microsoft are only dipping their toes in the water with Games On Demand. Nothing can go on there until three months after retail, for instance.

I don't expect them to go balls-deep on downloads until next-gen.

 

[Spongebob]

SuperDAE is reporting that this entire article is fake, as well as a guy on twitter called MTW who is apparently also developing on Durango.

 

[Tookay]

gimme a break, I am more optimistic about MS keeping the industry moving than Sony and Nintendo combined

The underlying philosophy of the Xbox is to own your living room. Games are secondary to that.

If that's more reassuring for the long-term interests of the gaming industry, then we have a problem.

 

[Oppo]

Most of their great engineers are gone now and all that is left are the dickish execs.


I'm not sure if they will be able to get away with this one especially if Sony doesn't follow through with anti used games tech on Orbis. If Sony still supports used games, the core gamers early adopters would flock to it, generating the word of mouth that would likely influence the dudebro gamer, who won't jump generations for at least or two after the next gen consoles launch, to purchase the Orbis instead of the Durango. In that case if Sony captures both the core and duebros that would likely put an end to this anti consumer crap that Microosft wants to peddle.

I think that is a distinct possibility, but I also think that MS has probably anticipated, and weighed this. Again I won't call that a smart decision but they have to know this. I think they are weighing it against a bunch of metrics and projections they have – i.e. how much connected customers spend vs non, how much Xbox Live Gold members spend vs Silver, what they think they can potentially carve out of the DVR/Apple TV market for services, the reduction of piracy... all of it. And in this light I can actually see it being possible. But all I can go by is their past behaviour, I don't have any of this data, just an educated guess... but it frankly fits their M.O. like a glove.

 

[Alcoholikaust]

super ultra mega fail article?

so hilarious if proven false

 

[B.O.O.M]

If MS do it Sony will follow suit.

Eh I don't think it's that clear cut. if anything this should encourage them to go the other way..would make MASSIVE strides marketshare wise

I hope this is false tho

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

It will be interesting how Gold and Silver Live will come into play this time around. If all consoles are online, it will be very hard for MS to justify the Live tax to enable online services.

I said earlier in this thread that I can foresee this console being pitched as an always connected lifestyle hub, with a subsidised purchase cost offset by compulsory live membership subscription (and possibly even ad supported too).

Like buying an internet enabled cable box. Except not really.

 

[shandy706]

It also needs to be connected to the internet to function? Just WOW. Guess I won't be playing any future Halo games!

I'd say 99% of Halo players...play it on-line. I'm confused as to how that would change your view if you're a Halo player that plays multi-player.

That makes no sense, lol.

 

[bigace33]

Edge posted another article to follow up this one, and I quote:



Edge is not Kotaku: they don't start rumors. Prepare yourselves.

Full article here:
http://www.edge-online.com/features/risky-business-the-next-xbox-versus-playstation-4/

If they can pass the savings on to us like steam does, I wouldn't be so turned off by it, but I know MS is not going to do that. No problem at all if it was an all digital box, and game prices reflected this like steam or greenman gaming. If devs are asking for this then there is no way that PS4 is not going to have some form of this as well. Boy, this gen is going to be very interesting. We could be watching our medium fold right before our eyes.

 

[Tookay]

I don't see how PC gaming is the answer...Used games are not a thing in the PC space, and it has been for quite some time.

If PC gaming is otherwise a superior experience with the only exception of being able to play used games on console, then eliminating the ability to play used games on your console makes the PC a pretty compelling choice, no?

 

[Pojo_King]

super ultra mega fail article?

so hilarious if proven true

Fixed

 

[FrankT]

If they can pass the savings on to us like steam does, I wouldn't be so turned off by it, but I know MS is not going to do that. No problem at all if it was an all digital box, and game prices reflected this like steam or greenman gaming. If devs are asking for this then there is no way that PS4 is not going to have some form of this as well. Boy, this gen is going to be very interesting. We could be watching our medium fold right before our eyes.

My gaming rig purchase last year looking better and better by the day. MS isn't going to pass along anything savings wise. Nowhere close to Steam anyways.

 

[Amir0x]

Ok, I thought this last gen was bad... this NEW gen is fuck awful and it hasn't even started.

No purchase Microsoft. Fuck yourself; you deserve failure.

EDIT: UNLESS THE ARTICLE IS WRONG, THEN HURRAY!

 

[Mesoian]

If PC gaming is otherwise a superior experience with the only exception of being able to play used games on console, then eliminating the ability to play used games on your console makes the PC a pretty compelling choice, no?

Well, Steam also seems to understand and adapt to the gaming market more readily than Microsoft does.

Which is kind of ironic.

 

[Jackben]

I guess there was a point in time when people who previously owned a hand-cranked Victrola phonograph, were pissed when they found out that the next generation of record players required electricity.

This is not even close to being the same.

 

[Mesoian]

MS will be targeting non-gaming revenue far more than gaming revenue. As far as MS is concerned, an offline, gaming only consumer doesn't fit in with their business plans. They want consumers who are willing and able to use the non-gaming services, which can only be used of the Xbox3 is always online. Some kid in his bedroom with retail copy of GTA is not the demographic they're after.

It will be interesting how Gold and Silver Live will come into play this time around. If all consoles are online, it will be very hard for MS to justify the Live tax to enable online services.

Mmm...no. Only because every other box does what the xbox does, aside from gaming, for free. It makes little to no sense to plunk a box down in the market place, say "Give us money to do the things that literally everything else beside this box does for free!" and expect to profit. Hell, that's what tanked the Zune marketplace. If what you said was true, Microsoft would be encouraging the used games market because it puts more consoles in homes.

At the end of the day, gaming is what gets the xbox in the living room. Everything else is a slow revenue drip that Microsoft wants to increase, and this move, if true and paired with their past history, which keep the gaming side of the equation limited.

 

[UberTag]

Ok, I thought this last gen was bad... this NEW gen is fuck awful and it hasn't even started.

No purchase Microsoft. Fuck yourself; you deserve failure.

EDIT: UNLESS THE ARTICLE IS WRONG, THEN HURRAY!

Hey Amir0x... does your "fuck yourself; you deserve failure" comment apply to EDGE if the article is wrong outright?
Or does it apply to both Microsoft AND Sony if the article is correct but wrong about Sony not adopting these practices?
And what if the article is intentionally wrong in order to spread FUD (as backed by Sony) or "prep ground" by presenting an extreme scenario (as backed by Microsoft)?

 

[Spongebob]

SuperDAE is reporting that this entire article is fake, as well as a guy on twitter called MTW who is apparently also developing on Durango.

Quoted for the new page.

 

[Amir0x]

Hey Amir0x... does your "fuck yourself; you deserve failure" comment apply to EDGE if the article is wrong outright?
Or does it apply to both Microsoft AND Sony if the article is correct but wrong about Sony not adopting these practices?

Of course, if Sony does it too, they can straight fuck themselves as well. Anti-consumer nonsense, and no self-respecting consumer should sit around and allow them to abuse the system. These are not charities, after all, and forceful pushback is required for fuckery of this magnitude.

As for EDGE, if EDGE is wrong it's just game journalism doin' its thing. At least being wrong about a rumor won't actually impact anything.

Edit: I highly doubt EDGE would push info they KNEW was wrong, and I'm as skeptical about game journalism as it gets. That would just be a nightmare for them if they were found out.

 

[MarkusRJR]

This is just fucking stupid. If this is true I'm not getting the next Xbox for sure. PS4 better be good or I'm going Nintendo only this generation.

What would be tolerable though is if they put a $5 activation fee for used games that goes directly to the developers. Flat out not allowing used games is just so anti-consumer it makes me mad.

 

[Tookay]

Hey Amir0x... does your "fuck yourself; you deserve failure" comment apply to EDGE if the article is wrong outright?
Or does it apply to both Microsoft AND Sony if the article is correct but wrong about Sony not adopting these practices?

Why does it matter if it does?

Do people have to lay down a blanket claim for all hypothetical scenarios to prove they're not some sort of fanboy when referring to the only known possibility that Edge is reporting on?

 

[El_Chino]

One reason this wouldn't happen is that GameStop wouldn't sell their console.

 

[Bsigg12]

Edge posted another article to follow up this one, and I quote:



Edge is not Kotaku: they don't start rumors. Prepare yourselves.

Full article here:
http://www.edge-online.com/features/risky-business-the-next-xbox-versus-playstation-4/

I'm sorry but at this point, anybody on Twitter can claim to be an insider and "leak" information to any news source. Yes there should be some digging on the site's side to verify it but the thing is here is last year this same rumor was brought up about there not being used games. Hell, even Sony has looked into the same thing. So if some guy knew about this, he could easily send an email saying they are banning used games and EDGE could google some things as their "research" and those past articles about it would popup.

I'm not saying it's not going to happen, I'm saying that since we are inching ever closer to the reveals of these systems, the pure amount of rumors attacking one system or the other will continue to increase. I wouldn't take everything at face value until Sony then Microsoft comes out and details their respective systems and services. Leaks can help us develop an idea of what to expect, but if it's not from the mouth of the beast, there's a chance (and on some things , a very large chance) it's false.

 

[rakkadakka]

Unlike Steam, I HIGHLY DOUBT we'll see crazy seasonal sales, which is what makes Steam so great.

Steam was around for awhile before those sales started.

 

[Alcoholikaust]

Fixed

touche

 

[phisheep]

lol @ people wanting to switch to PC if MS go the anti used games route. Steam/Valve is the very reason MS/Sony would be adopting this philosophy in the first place.

I think the report is exaggerated. My impression is that MS wants to reduce the loss from used game sales, but they won't shoot themselves in the foot in doing so.

- I think they'll have ID keys for every game, that binds to the first user every time.
- They will create a marketplace within their own ecosystem to allow these users to resell these games digitally, effectively cutting out the retailer.
- Each resale will generate a small profit towards MS/Devs.
- Seller is happy, buyer is happy, MS/Devs get what they wanted by gaining returns on their games. Ultimately the losers are the retailers.

At least that's one way of implementing it without inducing a riot. MS can't be that stupid ... right?

Well, that's a more sane way of looking at it. Not entirely sane, but more sane. Cuts out all the people who want to buy a used console plus a few games on the cheap of course. Just a few fixes to make here ...

effectively cutting out replacing the retailer.

- Each resale will generate a small profit 100% margin towards MS/Devs.

Now, which universe are we in if we think that replacing the entire market in used games - not just Gamestop, but local enterprises, market stalls, kids selling to other kids, kids swapping with other kids, loans, exchanges, boot sales, charity auctions and all the rest; if we think that replacing all of that with a Microsoft/Publisher hegemony is a good thing for the consumer huh?