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Engadget: Apple is over the optical drive.

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Marty Chinn said:
Again, optical media is a large capacity, widely used, non mechanical, and most importantly super cheap and disposable medium. You can't say that about the other forms out there now. It has its advantages.

The only advantage it has is cheap for storage. Thats it. And even then so that will soon no longer be an advantage. For under $200 you can get a 3TB hard-drive. It won't be long at all until hard-drive sizes satisfies everyone's needs.

AdrianWerner said:
People who have hundreds DVDs/CDs with movies and music?

Raistlin said:
But they do ... which is the point.


People want stupid obsolete crap all the time.

If people want to live in the stoneage, fine by me. But I'd prefer for technology to not travel at snails pace due to Neanderthals sticking with the stone wheel.
 
Tobor said:
There are some holes in the movies available, but music and software are covered.

So everything released on CD/DVD currently for music and software is available online digitally? I find that hard to believe. Heck, you couldn't even get the entire PSP library in digital form for the PSP Go.
 

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
numble said:
What data? The growth in sales, divided by division and including unit numbers, are in their financial statements, filed quarterly.

If you're talking about plunking down for a Cinema Display and Mac Mini, its from the same data where you say most sales are for HTPC use.
Refer to this post: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=29640917&postcount=250


While anecdotal, I can find a fair amount of information suggesting relatively significant HTPC usage/recommendation, as well as Mac OS distribution.


Are you stating you can find anecdotes that would place Mini's sales as not only high, but outstripping iMac?
 

Wiktor

Member
UrokeJoe said:
Lets move on people the optical drive is gone, it's dead. And it's not Apples fault, they just know a dead horse when they see it.
Uhh..it's still a dominant form of content distrubution and that won't change for at least couple years.
 

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
Flying_Phoenix said:
The only advantage it has is cheap for storage. Thats it. And even then so that will soon no longer be an advantage. For under $200 you can get a 3TB hard-drive. It won't be long at all until hard-drive sizes satisfies everyone's needs.

How do you fill up that 3 TB HDD? With your average internet connection with caps?

Seriously how long will it take me to download a 60 GB PC game in 2014? Will I have fiber then, or is it a week long download with cap fees?
 
Flying_Phoenix said:
The only advantage it has is cheap for storage. Thats it. And even then so that will soon no longer be an advantage. For under $200 you can get a 3TB hard-drive. It won't be long at all until hard-drive sizes satisfies everyone's needs.

So I'm going to send people hard drives of data? Hard drives don't solve the cheap and disposable aspect of the equation and that's a huge selling point. One of the advantages of floppies back in the day.
 
Marty Chinn said:
So everything released on CD/DVD currently for music and software is available online digitally? I find that hard to believe. Heck, you couldn't even get the entire PSP library in digital form for the PSP Go.

I think you'd have a hard time finding music or software that isn't available in some legal form online.
 

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
Well, damn. Hopefully PC doesn't follow suit, because I still use DVD/CD's for back-up purposes. :/ Sure there is flash memory but it gets more costly than buying a pack of CD's.
 
LyleLanley said:
Doesn't the vast majority of music, movies and software now come from internet?


Not even close.

Can you find the records of my favorite band: Seven Percent Solution available in lossless format?

Or my favorite movie: The World The Flesh and the Devil?

How about Replacing Deplhine

No.


LyleLanley said:
I think you'd have a hard time finding music or software that isn't available in some legal form online.


Go for it. Find me those records and those films.
 

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
TheSeks said:
Well, damn. Hopefully PC doesn't follow suit, because I still use DVD/CD's for back-up purposes. :/ Sure there is flash memory but it gets more costly than buying a pack of CD's.

PCs have custom builds and open source OSes. You'll be able to build a PC with 6 disc drives just for the lulz in 10 years just like today.
 

numble

Member
Raistlin said:
Refer to this post: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=29640917&postcount=250


While anecdotal, I can find a fair amount of information suggesting relatively significant HTPC usage/recommendation, as well as Mac OS distribution.


Are you stating you can find anecdotes that would place Mini's sales as not only high, but outstripping iMac?
Yeah, my anecdotal data came from Amazon.com and knowing people that use Macs for general use. Of course your anecdotal data from niche computing circles will tend to show niche use.
 
Marty Chinn said:
So I'm going to send people hard drives of data? Hard drives don't solve the cheap and disposable aspect of the equation and that's a huge selling point. One of the advantages of floppies back in the day.

You simply send stuff to people on-line, USB port, server hosting, etc.

teh_pwn said:
Seriously how long will it take me to download a 60 GB PC game in 2014? Will I have fiber then, or is it a week long download with cap fees?

60 GB PC game? Seriously?.Unless the Total War series starts pushing some insane detail, that won't happen for while. Most core PC games don't break the 10GB barrier.
 

Wiktor

Member
Flying_Phoenix said:
People want stupid obsolete crap all the time.

If people want to live in the stoneage, fine by me. But I'd prefer for technology to not travel at snails pace due to Neanderthals sticking with the stone wheel.
And I prefer technology to fit my needs, not the other way around. But hey, if you like being limited in options be my guest.
 

UrokeJoe

Member
AdrianWerner said:
Uhh..it's still a dominant form of content distrubution and that won't change for at least couple years.

Hey I'm a PC guy other than my phone. Apple is just ahead of the game and a reason why things are going their way right now.
 

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
Flying_Phoenix said:
60 GB PC game? Seriously?.

There are already 15+ GB games. The reason why they haven't gotten bigger is because of of Xbox360. All next gen consoles will have much larger capacity discs, so PC will too.

Stuff like 64-bit address space textures just don't appear out of thin air. The HD texture pack for Crysis 2 was 1.5 GB alone.
 

No_Style

Member
Out of the five PCs in the house, only 2 have optical drives installed; my bro's Macbook & his tower.

I don't miss having them installed, but I did pick up a handy USB optical drive earlier this year for like $30 CAD.

However, my anti-optical sentiment is only applicable to the PC. I still want my console games & HD movies available on Blu-ray. I don't have the bandwidth to download everything.
 

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
Flying_Phoenix said:
I'm really hurting over not using floppy discs and pagers.

Faulty analogy. I mean what the hell.
 

Tobor

Member
Marty Chinn said:
So everything released on CD/DVD currently for music and software is available online digitally? I find that hard to believe. Heck, you couldn't even get the entire PSP library in digital form for the PSP Go.
Music and software(meaning applications), I think it's safe to say can be downloaded. Certainly anything of relevance woud be available. I'm obviously not talking about game consoles, those are still stuck in the prehistoric tar pits with the movie industry.
 
outunderthestars said:
Not even close.

Can you find the records of my favorite band: Seven Percent Solution available in lossless format?

Or my favorite movie: The World The Flesh and the Devil?

How about Replacing Deplhine

No.





Go for it. Find me those records and those films.

Yeah, I misspoke. Obviously not everything is available online but I would wager that most music and software is, the obvious exception being catalog stuff.

Here's your movie by the way http://www.wbshop.com/World-The-Fle...1959/1000154515,default,pd.html?cgid=ONDEMAND

Didn't realize you mentioned two movies, you stumped me on Replacing Delphine.

Edit: Replacing Delphine from the movies own facebook page. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yh_-Ft5TU8 in HD too!
 
So Apple is now phasing out DVD drives from its machines? Of course, as the article says, this started a few years ago with the Macbook Air. I'm not surprised that Apple is continuing with this, it's the kind of thing they'd do; as the article's speculation says, and I agree, it's quite unlikely Apple will stop there and not move on to removing disc drives from more of their computers. Sure, you can get an external drive, but that's not exactly the best solution compared to internal.

On the other hand, of course, this was quite obviously coming. As if Apple'd stick with physical media, when instead they can push people towards using Apple's web store more, and can get rid of that ugly disk drive in their console too? Hah!

... I think everyone can guess what my opinion of this is. Of course I'm not exactly fond of Apple, but this kind of thing shows exactly why that is. Function matters more than form, darnit, Apple! And despite what Apple fans and the DD-only-future faithful may say, there are lots of reasons to want physical media. You have clearer ownership of something physical; you get more for your money (physical product and packaging too), lots of things aren't available as digital downloads; things can be removed from DD stores and vanish from legal access, because there's no way to buy a used copy of a DD product; bandwidth limits are getting worse, not better; and more...

But Apple cares for form above all and Steve Jobs hates things like buttons and media drives messing up the clean styling of his systems, so disc drives are out.

(And yes, I thought that iMacs dropping floppy drives in 1998 was stupid. Basically anyone wanting to actually use one needed an external drive of some kind (floppy and/or zip, usually), that was before flashdrives after all, and that internal CD drive wasn't a burner...)
 

dallow_bg

nods at old men
LyleLanley said:
I think you'd have a hard time finding music or software that isn't available in some legal form online.
In fact a bunch of CDs that have been out of print for years are found on Amazon or iTunes digitally.

I'm a collector so I still pay the premium for a secondhand copy though.
 

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
Flying_Phoenix said:
60 GB PC game? Seriously?.Unless the Total War series starts pushing some insane detail, that won't happen for while. Most core PC games don't break the 10GB barrier.

Isn't TOR supposed to be 60 gigs due to the music?

the_pwn said:
PCs have custom builds and open source OSes. You'll be able to build a PC with 6 disc drives just for the lulz in 10 years just like today.

You say that until they start to drop it from motherboards.

This hits me in a personal level as I have a mac mini PPC with an optical drive. So it's weird hearing Apple is dropping it, given I used the optical drive of my Mac to back up stuff.
 
teh_pwn said:
There are already 15+ GB games. The reason why they haven't gotten bigger is because of of Xbox360. All next gen consoles will have much larger capacity discs, so PC will too.

Stuff like 64-bit address space textures just don't appear out of thin air. The HD texture pack for Crysis 2 was 1.5 GB alone.

Hardly any games go beyond 15 GB. Yes there are exceptions like Total War and Battlefield 3, but these are few and far inbetween. I could accept 30GB, but 60GB? A 4 times increase in a little over 2 years?

TheSeks said:
Isn't TOR supposed to be 60 gigs due to the music?

15GB. And thats an MMO.

teh_pwn said:
Faulty analogy. I mean what the hell.

How?
 
Flying_Phoenix said:
You simply send stuff to people on-line, USB port, server hosting, etc.

You realize the bandwidth limitations of upload speeds for most people right? It took me a day and a half to back up some HD video to the cloud storage. So how do I get that video to my parents, my wife's parents, and my wife's sister easily? I upload it each to them? I find some third party to host my personal for them to grab? That's better than burning it to a disc that costs me pennies and I can just hand to them within a couple minutes? Again, cheap, large capacity, disposable medium has its places when wanting to share data where you don't care about getting the medium back.

Flying_Phoenix said:
Hardly any games go beyond 15 GB. Yes there are exceptions like Total War and Battlefield 3, but these are few and far inbetween. I could accept 30GB, but 60GB? A 4 times increase in a little over 2 years?

You think games are going to remain static? They've grown considerably over the last couple of years as is. It's silly to think they won't grow more.
 

Wiktor

Member
Flying_Phoenix said:
I'm really hurting over not using floppy discs and pagers.
Well, as I've said, you love to have less options, so kudos to you.
I prefer to actually wait till the technology isn't used anymore before removing it from my hardware. With optical drive that point is still at least a decade away, so for now I like to have access to both digital and physical media.
 
LyleLanley said:
Yeah, I misspoke. Obviously not everything is available online but I would wager that most music and software is, the obvious exception being catalog stuff.

Here's your movie by the way http://www.wbshop.com/World-The-Fle...1959/1000154515,default,pd.html?cgid=ONDEMAND

Honestly thanks for finding that. I have been looking for a version to gift to people.

(though I do find it funny that it is windows only. )

:)


What about the movies you currently own? It think it is still illegal to rip a dvd or blu ray.

I have no problem with things like the macbook air and ipad not having optical drives, but to say that they can be done away with entirely is just silly.
 

dallow_bg

nods at old men
Marty Chinn said:
You realize the bandwidth limitations of upload speeds for most people right? It took me a day and a half to back up some HD video to the cloud storage. So how do I get that video to my parents, my wife's parents, and my wife's sister easily? I upload it each to them? I find some third party to host my personal for them to grab? That's better than burning it to a disc that costs me pennies and I can just hand to them within a couple minutes? Again, cheap, large capacity, disposable medium has its places when wanting to share data where you don't care about getting the medium back.
In my case my family trade thumb drives with each other.
I have a small box with like 4 right now, my mom has a few at her place, and my aunt some more.
They're just copied and traded around.
 

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
Flying_Phoenix said:
Hardly any games go beyond 15 GB. Yes there are exceptions like Total War and Battlefield 3, but these are few and far inbetween. I could accept 30GB, but 60GB? A 4 times increase in a little over 2 years?

Yes, because BD goes up to 100 GB. Again the bottleneck is multiplatform engines. When high budget console devs use much of the space with the BD discs or 20+ GB proprietary discs, game footprints will change overnight. No longer bland textures running at 560p, but 1080p with tons of shaders, 1080p video, HD audio. It's going to get much bigger, and buying a disc from amazon will be a fuck lot easier than downloading.
 

UrokeJoe

Member
outunderthestars said:
I have no problem with things like the macbook air and ipad not having optical drives, but to say that they can be done away with entirely is just silly.

They are still an option.
 

DR3AM

Dreams of a world where inflated review scores save studios
They will sell their own external USB CD/DVD drive for $100 and make even more money. They did their own research before they decided to make this move. T
 
Marty Chinn said:
You realize the bandwidth limitations of upload speeds for most people right? It took me a day and a half to back up some HD video to the cloud storage. So how do I get that video to my parents, my wife's parents, and my wife's sister easily? I upload it each to them? I find some third party to host my personal for them to grab? That's better than burning it to a disc that costs me pennies and I can just hand to them within a couple minutes? Again, cheap, large capacity, disposable medium has its places when wanting to share data where you don't care about getting the medium back..

While I agree it won't be long (at all) until this is solved. And these situations are no longer that common in todays world with Netflix streaming and what not.

EDIT - Wait your talking about home movies?

Well I agree. If only there was some type of website designed around sharing your social life and experiences with others. Something that has your family and friends logging on every day to check to see whats going on in the lives of their family and peers. Somewhere were those people can post photos and videos. Unfortunately I don't know of such a place.



Marty Chinn said:
You think games are going to remain static? They've grown considerably over the last couple of years as is. It's silly to think they won't grow more.

Not growing /= Increasing 4 times in size in a little more than 2 years.

teh_pwn said:
Yes, because BD goes up to 100 GB. Again the bottleneck is multiplatform engines. When high budget console devs use much of the space with the BD discs or 20+ GB proprietary discs, game footprints will change overnight. No longer bland textures running at 560p, but 1080p with tons of shaders, 1080p video, HD audio. It's going to get much bigger, and buying a disc from amazon will be a fuck lot easier than downloading.
 

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
Flying_Phoenix said:
I'm really hurting over not using floppy discs and pagers.

Are you really comparing removing a back-up physical drive to losing those because they were clearly obsolete when said back-up physical drive became an option and cheaper/better to use?

Losing the optical drive could happen, but the time for that isn't just yet given flash drives are still $30+ for... 8 gigs IIRC. And no, digital distro isn't at the level for hard-drives to be the main last physical drive, mostly due to bandwidth.

And no, I don't want to use the cloud.
 

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
Flying_Phoenix said:

Floppies were just around because a few people wouldn't let go of them. They were slow, tiny capacity, noisy.

Blu-ray discs handily beat online content in quality, capacity, speed. In rural areas or apps that need a huge footprint with caps, it's the only prudent option.

Your analogy makes no sense at all.
 

Tobor

Member
Marty Chinn said:
You realize the bandwidth limitations of upload speeds for most people right? It took me a day and a half to back up some HD video to the cloud storage. So how do I get that video to my parents, my wife's parents, and my wife's sister easily? I upload it each to them? I find some third party to host my personal for them to grab? That's better than burning it to a disc that costs me pennies and I can just hand to them within a couple minutes? Again, cheap, large capacity, disposable medium has its places when wanting to share data where you don't care about getting the medium back.



You think games are going to remain static? They've grown considerably over the last couple of years as is. It's silly to think they won't grow more.
Put the video on YouTube or Facebook? I'm certainly not burning a bunch of discs and mailing them around. My family would just bitch at me for not posting it online like a normal person. Lol.
 
outunderthestars said:
Honestly thanks for finding that. I have been looking for a version to gift to people.

(though I do find it funny that it is windows only. )

:)


What about the movies you currently own? It think it is still illegal to rip a dvd or blu ray.

I have no problem with things like the macbook air and ipad not having optical drives, but to say that they can be done away with entirely is just silly.

Incase you don't look at my last post I added the other movie too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yh_-Ft5TU8

As for ripping my current movies and music, I'm not saying there is no use at all for cd drives but if we can make laptops thinner, have longer battery life or include more harddrive/ssd space then I'm all for using an external cd drive on the rare occasions where I do need it.

Regarding the legality of ripping dvd's and blu rays you own, I think we should be able to rip media that we purchased but that's another conversation entirely.
 

White Man

Member
I'd only bitch if they pulled 'em from the MBP. Using a plug-in drive wouldn't go with the aesthetic, and I burn lotsa discs with it.
 
dallow_bg said:
In my case my family trade thumb drives with each other.
I have a small box with like 4 right now, my mom has a few at her place, and my aunt some more.
They're just copied and traded around.

Then I have to manually track wher my USB drives are and that doesn't even factor in sending them off to people who aren't local. It's such a hassle to go that route instead of burning a disc and just not caring. It's sorta like backing up, if it's not automated, it becomes a headache and hassle.
 

numble

Member
Tobor said:
Put the video on YouTube or Facebook? I'm certainly not burning a bunch of discs and mailing them around. My family would just bitch at me for not posting it online like a normal person. Lol.
But those videos aren't 1080p.
 

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
Flying_Phoenix said:
Not growing /= Increasing 4 times in size in a little more than 2 years.

Okay now this is just ridiculous.

It's not 2 years. It's 2005--->2013. Xbox has been the bottleneck for 7 years, and it's about to be removed.

Lower budget PC games are already above 10 GB. Your dudebro high budget games are going to fill that space up because it's damn cheap and they have the budget to fill it up. That's the strength. It's not a fucking floppy.
 

kinoki

Illness is the doctor to whom we pay most heed; to kindness, to knowledge, we make promise only; pain we obey.
Bu-bu--but... my MacBook is the only device, save for the PS3, that I use the disc drive. Albeit to rip music from my constantly growing record collection out of which half has never even been in a disc drive save for that one time.
 

Tobor

Member
White Man said:
I'd only bitch if they pulled 'em from the MBP. Using a plug-in drive wouldn't go with the aesthetic, and I burn lotsa discs with it.
It's rumored for the next revision, so buy one now if yours is getting long in the tooth.
 

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
numble said:
Yeah, my anecdotal data came from Amazon.com and knowing people that use Macs for general use. Of course your anecdotal data from niche computing circles will tend to show niche use.
Wow ... so you're actually serious?

You actually think the Mini outsells iMac's?
 
Tobor said:
Put the video on YouTube or Facebook? I'm certainly not burning a bunch of discs and mailing them around. My family would just bitch at me for not posting it online like a normal person. Lol.

They're personal content. I don't put anything on Facebook or Youtube that I don't want publically available. Plus either option makes you downgrade the quality for both pictures and video. I know you like to lower quality on everything but some people actually care about how something looks.
 

dallow_bg

nods at old men
Marty Chinn said:
Then I have to manually track wher my USB drives are and that doesn't even factor in sending them off to people who aren't local. It's such a hassle to go that route instead of burning a disc and just not caring. It's sorta like backing up, if it's not automated, it becomes a headache and hassle.
No, the thumb drives belong to everyone. They just get passed around.
I don't give a shit about losing one more than I do a disc.
 
teh_pwn said:
It's not 2 years. It's 2005--->2013. Xbox has been the bottleneck for 7 years, and it's about to be removed.

I just find this theory ridiculous, especially due to the fact that most PC owners use Digital Distribution or DVDs anyway. Hardly any Blu-ray games exist today and I'm suppose to believe that they will dominate the PC world in the next 2 years?


teh_pwn said:
Lower budget PC games are already above 10 GB. Your dudebro high budget games are going to fill that space up because it's damn cheap and they have the budget to fill it up. That's the strength. It's not a fucking floppy.

Exceptions aren't the rule. Most games on PC barely pass the 10GB mark. Blu-ray is niche on PC, it will never guide it.

numble said:
But those videos aren't 1080p.

You think the average person gives a shit about 1080P?

The average person didn't even give a shit about HD. It was just shoved down their throat.
 
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