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Euro Migration Crisis: Gay Migrants Face Threats from Other Migrants

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Antiochus

Member
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...8-11e5-ba14-318f8e87a2fc_story.html?tid=sm_tw

Rami Ktifan made a snap decision to come out. A fellow Syrian had spotted a rainbow flag lying near the 23-year-old university student’s belongings inside a packed refugee center. The curious man, Ktifan recalled, picked it up before causally asking, “What is this?”

“I decided to tell the truth, that it is the flag for gay people like me,” Ktifan said. “I thought, I am in Europe now. In Germany, I should not have to hide anymore.”

What followed over the next several weeks, though, was a litany of abuse — both verbal and physical — from other refugees, including an attempt to burn his feet in the middle of the night. The harassment ultimately became so severe that he and two other openly gay asylum seekers were removed from the refugee center with the aid of a local gay activist group and placed in separate accommodations across town.

As the largest number of refugees since World War II streams into Europe, Ktifan’s case illustrates an emerging problem for gay and lesbian asylum seekers. Some of them are arriving in Europe only to find themselves again under threat, this time from fellow refugees.

There are no official figures. But the Lesbian and Gay Federation of Berlin and Brandenburg, for instance, says it is now receiving three to six cases a week in which gay asylum seekers have been victims of physical abuse, including sexual assault. Earlier this month, a 21-year-old gay Arab asylum seeker in Berlin was hospitalized after he was insulted and assaulted inside his refugee center. So far in the city of Dresden, an eastern German metropolis of 525,000, at least seven gay asylum seekers have been removed from shelters this year for their own safety.

Sensing a growing threat, Berlin officials are now seeking to open the city’s first refugee center exclusively for gays and lesbians. The Berlin gay federation, meanwhile, has rolled out a new campaign called Love Deserves Respect, putting up posters inside refu­gee centers showing three couples kissing — a man and a woman, two women and two men.

Ktifan and two other men -- Yousif Al Doori, 25, of Iraq, and Ahmed Suliman, 20, of Syria — said that initially they suffered only verbal abuse after word spread about their sexuality in a refugee shelter in Munich. But after they were relocated with other refugees to a longer-term facility in Dresden, things took a turn for the worse.At one point, Ktifan said, another refugee slipped into his room at night, stuck pieces of paper between his toes and set them on fire. Al Doori said several male refugees from North Africa and the Middle East surrounded him and then demanded sex. He said he pretended to go with one of them willingly before running away. Ktifan, Al Doori and Suliman said they were routinely pushed and shoved by fellow refugees while in line for food. Several of the male refugees would shout at them “to go wait with the women,” Ktifan said.The harassment became so constant that, with the aid of local gay activists, Ktifan, Al Doori and Suliman where ultimately pulled out of their refugee center last month and installed in a small separate apartment near the city center. Thedangers they faced, though, were nothing new.

Before fleeing for Europe, Al Doori said he was kidnapped and held for two days in Baghdad by religious thugs who had tried to extort his family because he is gay. In Syria, Ktifan said he hid his sexuality from all but a select few and initially fled to Libya to escape his country’s civil war. After a Libyan man tried to blackmail him for being gay, Ktifan said he returned to Syria. But as he grew increasingly fearful of Islamist extremists who were targeting gays and lesbians, he said he decided to join the exodus to Europe.

“We thought we were leaving that kind of treatment behind,” said Suliman. “But inside the refugee center, it felt like we were back in Syria.”

Unsurprising considering the amount of fellow Syrians he has been surrounded with.

One wonders whether if those migrant/refugee perpetrators of anti-LGBT crimes should be liable for immediate deportation from Germany.
 
Pretty disgusting that you'd bring your trash values with you into your new country. Not surprising though I guess. Hopefully those targeted can be provided with adequate protection.
 

Dead Man

Member
Gay asylum seekers who reached Australia have been pretty terribly treated by our government, seems they get a shit deal everywhere.
 
D

Deleted member 20920

Unconfirmed Member
Send them back!

I never understood the mental gymnastics one must go through to go from "man you're a disgusting homosexual" and lead that to "I'm going to sexually assault you". I mean, most sexual assualt is a matter of power dynamics but certainly some of these people (and not just those in this particular situation) notice the irony behind their actions?
 
Fleeing a shitty situation doesn't make you an angel, shitty people need protection from violence as well.
If you were so desperate to escape a war torn hellhole, why would you do things that your adoptive country might frown upon? I'd be scared that Germany might send me back at anytime.

Also "shitty people"? No they don't. These people are bigoted people who will violently attack others. What kind of person burns someone else's feet? Or sexually assualt them? Violent criminal homophobic scumbags. Who are going to protect the people these crazies are harming?
 

Dead Man

Member
If you were so desperate to escape a war torn hellhole, why would you do things that your adoptive country might frown upon? I'd be scared that Germany might send me back at anytime.

Also "shitty people"? No they don't. These people are bigoted people who will violently attack others. What kind of person burns someone else's feet? Or sexually assualt them? Violent criminal homophobic scumbags. Who are going to protect the people these crazies are harming?

Because you don't want to die? That doesn't mean you agree with where you are going to, just that it is safer.

And bigoted people that violently attack others are pretty fucking shitty. That's why they should be prosecuted under local laws and then serve any time they are sentenced too. It doesn't mean they should be sent back without a trial.
 
Because you don't want to die? That doesn't mean you agree with where you are going to, just that it is safer.

And bigoted people that violently attack others are pretty fucking shitty. That's why they should be prosecuted under local laws and then serve any time they are sentenced too. It doesn't mean they should be sent back without a trial.

I agree with this man.

If those people threaten to kill or harm gay people, the law in the west will sanction them. Because they were braught up with these horrible norms and values doesn't mean they don't have right of asylum.
 
Because you don't want to die? That doesn't mean you agree with where you are going to, just that it is safer.

And bigoted people that violently attack others are pretty fucking shitty. That's why they should be prosecuted under local laws and then serve any time they are sentenced too. It doesn't mean they should be sent back without a trial.
I can agree with you there. But does Germany have anything to stand on even if they wanted to send them back?
 

Rembrandt

Banned
??? At people saying send them back like Germany doesn't have neonazis and violent homophobic, racist people that were birthed there. Something needs to be done, yeah, but sending them back isn't the answer.
 

quesalupa

Member
Send the homophobes back. Yep, it's not a nice thing to do but I'm so sick of all the bullshit going on these days. Fuck em.
 
You are losing your right of asulym if you commit crimes. It's a quite simple concept but whatever we are using every opportunity to talk shit about all refugees.
 

Henrar

Member
I agree with this man.

If those people threaten to kill or harm gay people, the law in the west will sanction them. Because they were braught up with these horrible norms and values doesn't mean they don't have right of asylum.
If they commit a crime they should be sent back without the right of asylum. What should we do to them? Send to German prison? That will surely work well.
 
If they commit a crime they should be sent back without the right of asylum. What should we do to them? Send to German prison? That will surely work well.

Yes, send them to German prison where they have the opportunity to sit out their sentence and rethink the choices they've made in life. They deserve a second chance, like the other people in Germany.
 

Maedre

Banned
send them back. If you are seeking Shelter, accept the rules. If you act against the rules you have to leave.
 

Impotaku

Member
Yes, send them to German prison where they have the opportunity to sit out their sentence and rethink the choices they've made in life. They deserve a second chance, like the other people in Germany.

They got a second chance when they fled to Germany & they continue to be shitty fucked up bigots. Why should any country take in people with those values. Send them back, they don't deserve asylum.
 
Did they honestly think that just because they made it to Germany that everyone around them will suddenly take up German morals & values? Integrating these people is going to be a challenge.
 

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
I can agree with you there. But does Germany have anything to stand on even if they wanted to send them back?

Breaking the local law in serious matters is a case for someone to lose their asylee status. Trying to burn someone and other forms of harrassment would qualify.
 

Impotaku

Member
Did they honestly think that just because they made it to Germany that everyone around them will suddenly take up German morals & values? Integrating these people is going to be a challenge.

They aren't German morals and values, they are the values of not been a shitty human beign. Normal people don't set fire to someones feet, it's not a special morals.
 

spekkeh

Banned
I think it's time to see through the massive exaggeration that sending regular asylum seekers back to their country is a certified death sentence. Like the 18 million people still living in Syria currently are Already Dead.

Yes you have a right to asylum if you are at risk of being persecuted in your country. You forfeit that right if you are persecuting other people, bye bye.
 
This may sound fucked up but shit like this makes me want to say just send those fucking migrants abusing him back to their countries. You fucking come to Europe for a better life, then immediately start making someone else's miserable. If you cannot have sympathy and respect for a fellow asylum seeker, knowing they've gone through the same hell as you, in such trying times, you should fuck right off.
 
Refugees from refugees? Well, there we go.

This is a shame but due to the sheer volume of people it's really not surprising there's some arseholes in there.
 
??? At people saying send them back like Germany doesn't have neonazis and violent homophobic, racist people that were birthed there. Something needs to be done, yeah, but sending them back isn't the answer.

74% of Germans support full gay rights, there is no actual gay marriage in regards to traditional church marriage but civil partnerships exist which gives you the same legal status as a married heterosexual couple. Hopefully soon you can get properly married, overwhelming majority of Germans support it, even two thirds of the Christian democrats support it. Many of those that aren't for gay marriage and straddle the opinion of indifference, most of these that oppose are not violent homophobes either. Neo-nazis/violent homophobic people are so few in Germany it's practically a non-issue. You will not have a problem being gay in Germany, you can be more openly gay in public in Germany and Sweden, what other countries do you find where the overwhelming majority is in support? Really Germany is amongst one of the last places to be afraid of being gay in. I mean shit, there's tons of gay brothels and strip clubs too if that's what you fancy, these all exist peacefully. Germany is one of the few places in the world amongst other countries like those in Scandinavia which has the least animosity towards homosexuality. Same goes for Netherlands and Belgium.

Germany has also printed its constitution in Arabic for refugees to learn to help integration. Vice chancellor said no one is forced to change their private life, views or religion but if you come to Germany you have to respect the culture and rights/principles of German society of all those who reside in it and exercise fairness towards everyone. He even specifically said homophobia and anti-semitism has zero tolerance in Germany. Anti-semitism has been on the rise in Europe due to retaliation of the way Israel treats Palestine.
 

Cromat

Member
Who would have thought that people from the third world have third world attitudes. The debate over immigration in Europe is so painfully shallow. It's like you're either a Nazi or you're for letting everyone in, when obviously there is room for sensible positions in the middle.
 
Ideally you could just present any asylum seeker with two kissing men followed by someone ripping out pages of the Quran to base their fate on how they react.
They need to be clearly confronted with things of their culture/upbringing that are simply unacceptable in our society.

Maybe it would help them understand if they knew that the few people with similar believes in western Europe are the ones who are trying to burn their camps...

Isolation / forming of local cultural pockets has to be avoided at all costs to help their immigration and a more conflict-free future.
 

AndyD

aka andydumi
It takes years if not decades to integrate into a society and change your norms. For some it takes a new generation born in the new country. To pretend that they can instantly assimilate is a fantasy.

That said good on him for being brave and shame on the others.
 

Chococat

Member
I agree with you, but clearly we don't have a universal moral code throughout the world.

Agreed, but if you are seeking asylum in another country, one needs to adopted the moral code of that country. Sorry, the trade off for safety is that the refugee has to assimilate.

If one is caught attacking other refugees, perhaps they should be punished by be denied asylum (temporary or permanently) , jailed or be sent back. For every one active bigot, there are thousands willing to change. The majority of the time and energy should be spent on cooperative people, and not the trouble makers.
 

Goliath

Member
They got a second chance when they fled to Germany & they continue to be shitty fucked up bigots. Why should any country take in people with those values. Send them back, they don't deserve asylum.

Agreed. You should be on your best behavior when trying to convince a country by force to take you in.
 

Nabbis

Member
Clearly the troublemakers need more money, education and patience at the expense of the country cause that's what's morally acceptable these days.
 
Let's bring these people by the millions into Canada and the US!

Serious: Keep the people who are willing to accept change; send back those who won't.
 

spons

Gold Member
How about fixing the mess back home before heading to the West. Goes for people from all failed states.

Did they honestly think that just because they made it to Germany that everyone around them will suddenly take up German morals & values? Integrating these people is going to be a challenge.

What morals and values, exactly? Gays flee to one of the few Western countries without gay marriage in the hope they're accepted. That's almost fucking satire.
 
This may sound fucked up but shit like this makes me want to say just send those fucking migrants abusing him back to their countries. You fucking come to Europe for a better life, then immediately start making someone else's miserable. If you cannot have sympathy and respect for a fellow asylum seeker, knowing they've gone through the same hell as you, in such trying times, you should fuck right off.

All that needs to be said really.
 
"Well, sectarian violence is a big reason why we had to flee our ancestral homeland...but I think we're not quite ready to give up on it as a way of life."

While no one expects a suddenly displaced people to abandon all of their culture, there is going to be an enormously rough time integrating those who were content with sharia in day to day life.
 

shintoki

sparkle this bitch
I see no problems with sending their asses back. Its not the most humane, but if they are already assaulting others based on their nationality, race, sex, or religion. Why waste the time and resources?
 

Nikodemos

Member
The lawful punishment for asylum seekers breaking the laws of the country they're currently residing in and petitioning for is immediate deportation, is it not? Why are we even having this discusion?
 
Send them back!

I never understood the mental gymnastics one must go through to go from "man you're a disgusting homosexual" and lead that to "I'm going to sexually assault you". I mean, most sexual assualt is a matter of power dynamics but certainly some of these people (and not just those in this particular situation) notice the irony behind their actions?

entrydenied
Member

image.php


I agree with you completely btw — but your name & pic in light of the thread's 'deny sexual abuse' + 'deny immigration' context made an avatar quote too hard to resist.
 
Wow. I don't recall reading such harsh reactions when it was Christian migrants who were under threat ?

For the record yes, I'm for sending back violent subjects. You won't prove that you can succesfully integrating another society by attacking those that don't follow your dogma.
 
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