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[Famitsu] Hulst: focus on service games despite Concord failure; UC2 has greatest impact in 30 years; aim to leverage legacy IPs, and more
- Thread starter LectureMaster
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TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Shhhhh, you!
No reason and common sense allowed in this thread.
Only vitriol, narrative spinning and faux outrage.
Angry_Megalodon
Member
By replicating the philosophy instead of the final product. Arrowhead's focus and community management should be the norm, not the exception.
Moriarty1889
Member
Herman : ” We need Concord 2……make it happen it’s what Modern Audiences want AND need.”
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
I'm a realist, and know that SIE will never not do GAAS considering they have some successful ones already (Helldivers 2, GT7, MLB The Show).
However, if they're going to focus on GAAS alongside non-GAAS, they have to do the following two things successfully:
Consider the following: if Concord were even moderately successful, and the leaked cancelled Firesprite GAAS titles weren't in fact cancelled, SIE would've potentially had FOUR very-similar futuristic/retro-futuristic sci-fi FPS/hero-shooter GAAS titles on the market simultaneously. WHY?!? Not only would have been three games too many, they'd also have a situation where one would inevitably end up pulling resources from another. Then you get into the problem of diluted saturation among your very own content offerings!
For GAAS they'd be smarter leveraging the AA bracket, and leaning into legacy IP through amalgamation. GAAS investments should start out small/modest and scale up if momentum builds calling for it. Meanwhile they need a healthy balance of traditional AAA and AA to keep release pipeline for spotlight content relatively smooth, alongside updates for GAAS titles. GAAS titles should never amount to more than 25% of SIE's total current output though, IMHO, maybe even not over 20%. If you're smart in what areas to focus your GAAS in, you can ensure each one is a relative success. While it's not a GAAS, Balatro is a perfect example of a game made with passion and talent catering to a niche that just happened to also appeal well outside of that niche, but still would've been a financial success had it never done so. You can also name the number of similar games on the market on one hand, maybe two hands tops.
SIE needs that approach with their GAAS, it's partly why Helldivers 2 has been a success and why Concord was such a monumental failure (it looked generic and offered nothing truly new in its market). It's also worth doing for traditional AA, although there is a bit more wiggle room there in terms of playing certain things safe (i.e Astro Bot is amazing but it's also heavily influenced by Nintendo platformers; it releasing in a year with no major Nintendo platformers also benefited its profile). By their nature AAA games have to play it more safe, AAA GAAS even more so.
However, if they're going to focus on GAAS alongside non-GAAS, they have to do the following two things successfully:
1: Don't skimp out on non-GAAS games (that means keep up/increase quality of traditional AAA and expand into doing more traditional AA), and
2: Make a better focus concentrating on truly unique game types for GAAS in areas where saturation is low
Consider the following: if Concord were even moderately successful, and the leaked cancelled Firesprite GAAS titles weren't in fact cancelled, SIE would've potentially had FOUR very-similar futuristic/retro-futuristic sci-fi FPS/hero-shooter GAAS titles on the market simultaneously. WHY?!? Not only would have been three games too many, they'd also have a situation where one would inevitably end up pulling resources from another. Then you get into the problem of diluted saturation among your very own content offerings!
For GAAS they'd be smarter leveraging the AA bracket, and leaning into legacy IP through amalgamation. GAAS investments should start out small/modest and scale up if momentum builds calling for it. Meanwhile they need a healthy balance of traditional AAA and AA to keep release pipeline for spotlight content relatively smooth, alongside updates for GAAS titles. GAAS titles should never amount to more than 25% of SIE's total current output though, IMHO, maybe even not over 20%. If you're smart in what areas to focus your GAAS in, you can ensure each one is a relative success. While it's not a GAAS, Balatro is a perfect example of a game made with passion and talent catering to a niche that just happened to also appeal well outside of that niche, but still would've been a financial success had it never done so. You can also name the number of similar games on the market on one hand, maybe two hands tops.
SIE needs that approach with their GAAS, it's partly why Helldivers 2 has been a success and why Concord was such a monumental failure (it looked generic and offered nothing truly new in its market). It's also worth doing for traditional AA, although there is a bit more wiggle room there in terms of playing certain things safe (i.e Astro Bot is amazing but it's also heavily influenced by Nintendo platformers; it releasing in a year with no major Nintendo platformers also benefited its profile). By their nature AAA games have to play it more safe, AAA GAAS even more so.
Insanemaelstrom
Gold Member
You can check many people's goty list for a clue. Helldivers 2 is literally the fastest selling playstation exclusive. Astrobot has been a hit with both critics and fans. Even if you consider only these 2 games, two excellent games is great for any publisher to have.
That's something to discuss when the generation ends. So far ps5 has been doing better than ps4, YTD. Will it be able to keep the momentum is something to discuss afterwards
bitbydeath
Gold Member
Does GAF not realise that Live Service = MP games that receive updates?
It wasn’t that long ago that GAF wanted Sony to do both SP and MP games, and Hermen is doing it right by not taking SP games away to achieve it.
It wasn’t that long ago that GAF wanted Sony to do both SP and MP games, and Hermen is doing it right by not taking SP games away to achieve it.
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Insanemaelstrom
Gold Member
If we are going to be basing success and how good a title is solely on sales, call of duty and mobiles games will always win goty and are the best games ever made.
Astrobot was made by a studio that has 65 devs. Pretty sure it's already profitable.
Spiderman 2 has been selling more than Spiderman 1, YTD, as far as I am aware. It was the fastest selling ps exclusive when it released and has been regularly hitting the charts.
Unlikely, god of war Ragnarok also has been selling better than god of war 2018 which in turn sold better than any previous god of war game. Helldivers 2 sold far more than Helldivers 1. Gt7 is the second best selling gt and will soon be the best selling gt till date. Forbidden west got neutered by Sony experimenting with ps plus, but otherwise Sony's sequels have been selling better than prequels.
Yet this year was one of Sony's best year profit wise
clarky
Gold Member
I find it very hard to have a discussion with you sometimes. Not everyone is against you and no, you are not the first person to figure out that GAAS are not only a nessesity but can be a highlight in the gaming space when done right.
Theres lots of GAAS that are fucking excellent and successful that i dont like, but lots that i do. I think you might be right in that an extraction shooter done right might shake up the gaming space, but it wont be the be all and end all if so. Most gamers don't even like pvp so there will always be a space for different experiences.
And yes im fully aware that Sony owns Bungie, whats your point.
clarky
Gold Member
People are easy to forget how slow the previous gens started.
PS2 was fucking anemic for a good few years.
Pasta la Vista
Member
I would say the name helped somewhat, I bought the first game but didn't play much of it because I disliked the top down view, but I loved its unique approach to an online co-op game. I remember thinking to myself that if it were 3rd Person, I'd be all about it. Well that's what Helldivers 2 ended up becoming.
What I mean is that the groundwork was there for a solid and unique experience that no other live service game was offering. The closest thing I can think of is Metal Gear Survive, which died.
But sure, fair enough, Foamstars is not a PlayStation Studios game, still it was very much associated with the brand. Even on this gaming enthusiast board people often forget (or didn't know) the game was created by SE.
Horseganador
Member
It's funny to focus only on Concord and forget about Helldivers 2 (or Destiny 2...) which have been at the top of the highest revenue on Steam or how Helldivers 2 and Astrobot have taken home gotys and awards everywhere or forget about all the single player games they have in preparation (and already released) as if they were just making fun of Sony's bad narrative.
ShadyAcshuns
Member
TheTony316
Member
The first 2-3 years on PS3 and PS4 were lackluster aswell. The PS4 was so bad that people used to call it Indiestation. Even Xbox fanboys were bragging about exclusives.
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clarky
Gold Member
Yep, i just couldn't be arsed typing it out.
Fess
Member
Well, yeah. Everybody knows this except the developers, unfortunately. Good looks, sexiness, coolness, stylish looks, it’s all selling. But bald and no makeup for a woman fronting a game… Does it sell? I guess we’ll find out.
I found this portfolio pic of the actress for Intergalactic.
Would people have complained if the MC looked like that? I’d say that look would definitely change the tune. So they have the capability to do it. Same actress, just some styling and makeup and hair.
TheTony316
Member
Well, yeah. Everybody knows this except the developers, unfortunately. Good looks, sexiness, coolness, stylish looks, it’s all selling. But bald and no makeup for a woman fronting a game… Does it sell? I guess we’ll find out.
I found this portfolio pic of the actress for Intergalactic.
Would people have complained if the MC looked like that? I’d say that look would definitely change the tune. So they have the capability to do it. Same actress, just some styling and makeup and hair.
Much better. I hope the game has hairstyle options like the Witcher 3.
GHG
Member
Well, yeah. Everybody knows this except the developers, unfortunately. Good looks, sexiness, coolness, stylish looks, it’s all selling. But bald and no makeup for a woman fronting a game… Does it sell? I guess we’ll find out.
I found this portfolio pic of the actress for Intergalactic.
Would people have complained if the MC looked like that? I’d say that look would definitely change the tune. So they have the capability to do it. Same actress, just some styling and makeup and hair.
The issue is that she's a raging lunatic and has no hair now so would likely object to them giving her hair.
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Kacho
Gold Member
The PS5 library doesn't hold a candle to the PS2 library, especially with Sony porting their games to PC now. That's going to have a HUGE effect on peoples fondness for the thing. You'll see.
Yeah, that's sort of the problem. There's no reason to jump in during the Hermen era. More live service slop on the way, lackluster first party lineup that all come to PC eventually, and temp third party exclusives to fill the void. Absolutely pathetic.
samoilaaa
Member
wtf are you talking about , spider man 2 is way behind spiderman 1 by almost 10 million copies , its not hard to check the internet
god of war ragnarok is also behind 2018
i dont know where your getting your numbers from
TheTony316
Member
That's not saying much. No console library holds a candle to the PS2.
Jinzo Prime
Member
It's kind of funny, they bought the studio tham made Concord, but Arrowhead is still independent
Herman or Tokoi has no idea what they're doing with live service
clarky
Gold Member
PS5 library is arguably better than the PS2's at this point in its life.
Kacho
Gold Member
clarky
Gold Member
I lived through it mate. That firework game was the only half decent thing for a good few years.
TheTony316
Member
What are you talking about?
Are you comparing lifetime sales? Because YTD, both sequels are selling at a faster rate.
Spiderman 2 sold 11 million in 6 months.
Spiderman 1 sold 13 million in 10 months.
God of War is not even close.
God Of War 2018 sold 10 million in a year
Ragnarok sold 11 million in 3 months.
Fess
Member
Sure but she’s still all dolled up there with earrings and lots of makeup etc.
There is so much stuff they’re doing wrong with that main character from a PR perspective. I don’t understand who they’re trying to fool here but it’s not going to work unless they at least somehow attempt to make her look cool or appealing. I have close by cancer experience so I know how important the hair is and doing nothing about highlighting your femininity as a woman when you’re stripped of the hair is not making things easy. It is possible that they’re attempting to do a thing about that within the game, who knows, but they can’t do it without context and explaining that when doing simple PR when trying to sell the game.
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GHG
Member
Yep, bizarre choices all round and I think the fact that they selected her of all people for the role speaks volumes. That studio is rotten, top to bottom.
kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
It's not like Hermen Hulst is an innocent bystander and there dozens of higher ranked busybodies telling him what to do.
There are only two people who can tell Hermen Hulst what to do: Sony CEO Kenichiro Yoshida and Sony COO and CFO and chairman of Sony Interactive Entertainment: Hiroki Totoki . Yoshida en Totoki are the ones who'll business goals (lower the costs, increase revenues and profits), but it's up to Hermen Hulst and Hideaki Nishino to turn that into a business plan and implement it.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
I don’t know why PC is a factor at all in the discussion of their output.
If you don’t see a need for a ps5, that doesn’t mean their lineup hasn’t been strong. It just means you now have the ability to only play on PC
nial
Member
I don't think I implied otherwise.
The thing is that the business plan was already integrated before Hermen Hulst even became head of WWS.
It all started under the tenure of Jim Ryan (former CEO of SIE), Shawn Layden (former Chairman of WWS) and Shuhei Yoshida (former President of WWS), specifically. The live service initiative has been considered key for the future growth of the G&NS segment for quite some time, and that's just not going to change, no matter who is at the helm of SIE.
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Bojji
Member
WTF? PS2 launched ~2000, most heavy hitters launched in 2001:
Mgs2, FFX, SH2, GTA3, gt3 etc.
Console was replaced by PS3 in 2006, 6 years after launch. Now we are 4 years after PS5 launch and games are nowhere close to where PS2 was after 4 years...
nial
Member
All but one are third-party published games, you're supporting his point, I guess? BTW, PS2 had a ~7 year lifecycle (3/00 - 11/06).
That being said, PS2 did have lots of notable first-party games in its first four years; Gran Turismo 3, Ape Escape 2, Ico, Jak and Daxter 1-2, Ratchet & Clank 1-2, etc.
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Mattyp
Not the YouTuber
PS2 had heavy hitters but very very few were Sony Studios.
That said we’re 4 years into the PS5 and we’ve got Astrobot & Helldivers 2 that’s it.
clarky
Gold Member
Just think about what you just typed.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
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nial
Member
"Games that came out in 2018 have sold better than games that came out in 2022 and 2023!"
PS2 released in late 2000 in NA, by the end of 2001, PS2 had SSX Tricky, Metal Gear Solid 2, Silent Hill 2, Max Payne, Tony Hawk Pro Skater 3, Final Fantasy X, Twisted Metal: Black, Red Faction, Balder's Gate: Dark Alliance, and of course this little game called Grand Theft Auto 3.
That is far from anemic.
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Bojji
Member
Third party or not, those games were exclusives at launch. Ps2 had many third party exclusives and most of the time Sony didn't pay for them, popularity of the console was driving those decisions.
Third party exclusives are mostly dead at this point so Sony has to make games themselves - they already did in PS3 gen. But PS5 gen is quite mediocre at this point. And focus on gaas trash will not make it better...
Jinzo Prime
Member
Well, you also have Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart, Gran Turismo 7, Returnal, Spider Man 2, Horizion FW, and God of War Ragnarok
Really not bad, but I don't think those games compare to the 3rd party exclusives the PS2 had.
nial
Member
They did far before the PS3 gen, but the fact that third-party published games come first to your mind before first-party games like Ape Escape 2 shows how much you guys actually like Sony anyway.
No wonder people here always try to pretend that Astro Bot was not a thing.
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clarky
Gold Member
Good points and im pissed. but PS5 has also had some stellar titles so far. Im not sure what my point was but this gen id argue Sonys output has been better this gen
TheTony316
Member
I mean, if we use current gen console war logic. These don't count because they were third party timed exclusives and released on PC after a couple of years.
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TheTony316
Member
It's definitely better than the first years of PS3 and PS4.
Bojji
Member
I love jak series, ratchet, Ico, sotc and few more. But most of them weren't exactly heavy hitters compared to third part? God of war was but that was 2005 (and Gran Turismo of course).
Most Sony franchises were not very big and popular in PS1 and PS2 gen. Sony could ride on TP games so they didn't care. They started to create bigger games in PS3 and PS4 era.
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