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[tmlDan]

Yep, bizarre choices all round and I think the fact that they selected her of all people for the role speaks volumes. That studio is rotten, top to bottom.

what's wrong with her specifically? I really don't understand your logic and how it makes them rotten.

I can probably find dirt on all actors in hollywood or otherwise that i disagree with

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

That said we’re 4 years into the PS5 and we’ve got Astrobot & Helldivers 2 that’s it.

Yeah sure, that’s all there is

 

[strike670]

Good points and im pissed. but PS5 has also had some stellar titles so far. Im not sure what my point was but this gen id argue Sonys output has been better this gen

First Party? The first two years of PS2 first party consisted of Dark Cloud, Gran Turismo 3 A-spec, Twisted Metal: Black, Jak and Daxter, and Ratchet & Clank. Maybe Champions of Norrath, but that might have released in 2003. That is what I can remember off the top of my head, probably forgetting others. Sony first party content began to get going during the PS2 era. But I do recall the early years of PS3 being very lackluster compared to 360. PS4 first two years had a lot of cross platform games if I recall correctly.

This gen had a hard time getting started due to the pandemic.

 

[clarky]

Yeah sure, that’s all there is

Exactly mate, we don't agree on much but the revisionist bullshit that some spout is bullshit

 

[Generic]

That ratio

Godspeed Naughty Dog

The people reviewbombing Intergalatic don't play Naughty Dog games. This is TLOU2 "discourse" all over again.

 

[mckmas8808]

This is just common sense. Nothing has changed about their continually rising budgets. They literally have to try making successful GAAS games. Called this a while ago. Their single player games are among the most expensive productions in the whole medium. They know what Call of Duty and Fortnite pull in moneywise and in terms of player retention. They're never going to stop trying to do that.

Literally every company making games are making GAAS games. Not sure why people are surprised Sony will try to make some also.

 

[nial]

I love jak series, ratchet, Ico, sotc and few more. But most of them weren't exactly heavy hitters compared to third part? God of war was but that was 2005 (and Gran Turismo of course).

Most Sony franchises were not very big and popular in PS1 and PS2 gen. Sony could ride on TP games so they didn't care. They started to create bigger games in PS3 and PS4 era.

J&D and R&C were surely bigger than SH2.
But also, this obsession over heavy hitters is kind of damning. Realistically, you don't *need* more than one or two heavy hitters per year, with a bunch of smaller games across the months helping to diversify the output.
Sony had GT3 and J&D in 2001, R&C in 2002, R&C2 in 2003, R&C3 and GT4 in 2004 and God of War in 2005. They also had a bunch of smaller games that helped to fill their respective years.
Plus, when you look at the equivalent of Ape Escape 2 in PS5, Astro Bot, being critically acclaimed and winning GOTY (first SIE release in the PS5 gen to do so), you need to ask yourself if heavy hitters are all what you really need and not just GOOD games in general.

 

[kevboard]

2 has had a major impact on the direction of game production at SIE's first-party studios, and its profound story and immersive world have become synonymous with PlayStation Studios.

if I had a time machine I'd break into Naughty Dog's studio and delete all builds and assets of Uncharted 2...
this is my version of "if you could go back and kill Hitler"

the gall to call that half automated extremely scripted 3rd person shooter immersive

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I find it very hard to have a discussion with you sometimes. Not everyone is against you and no, you are not the first person to figure out that GAAS are not only a nessesity but can be a highlight in the gaming space when done right.

I tone match which means I meet the tone of the person that’s interacting with me. I mean no offense with the sassyness. I personally don’t care if people are “against me” as long as they’re “for logic”. Unfortunately, far too many gamers who have spent 0 percent of their lives understanding the video game market think they know more than the most capable, educated, well resourced, accomplished CEOs in the industry who obsess over this stuff. They would rather listen to the “I don’t like these games so these companies should stop making them” voice instead. Completely illogical.

Theres lots of GAAS that are fucking excellent and successful that i dont like, but lots that i do. I think you might be right in that an extraction shooter done right might shake up the gaming space, but it wont be the be all and end all if so. Most gamers don't even like pvp so there will always be a space for different experiences.

I don’t think the Extraction Shooter is going to topple Battle Royale in the short term. I do think it’s a far more complex (and interesring) game type that is primed to do phenomenally well over the next 5+ years.

PvP isn’t even a well explored medium so the gamers that don’t like it don’t really understand its potential. Most don’t like the past iterations of it they’ve experienced.

And yes im fully aware that Sony owns Bungie, whats your point.

You said Sony and MS were not making an Extraction Shooter. I suggested both were using Marathon and DMZ 2.0.

 

[mckmas8808]

I think that, if anything, he mostly says the right things.

Thanks for posting more of the article. It's clear to me that he has a good pulse on where PlayStation should go. Way more than Jim Ryan ever did.

Lets face it, if he didn't mention live-service titles, what would that be saying about Bungie?

The fixation on Concord is funny to me, because what actually happened was that they saw what the reception was like and pulled the ripcord straight-away. No attempts at propping it up, no attempts to salvage the reception. Refund and forget. So quite what anyone has to complain about is beyond me... They responded decisively and quickly, what more were they expected to do?

Cancel all live-service titles after spending a fortune on Bungie and their live-service Destiny franchise, ignore the success they've had this year with Helldivers 2 ?

Sorry, but can't help think some people are giving way too much credit to drama-farmers on Youtube.

I believe we are in a new age in our culture where a certain percentage of people will consistently convince themselves that everything sucks and you have to be mad about everything at all times. Some of these people love talking about the video game industry, more than they actually like playing games.

 

[clarky]

I tone match which means I meet the tone of the person that’s interacting with me. I mean no offense with the sassyness. I personally don’t care if people are “against me” as long as they’re “for logic”. Unfortunately, far too many gamers who have spent 0 percent of their lives understanding the video game market think they know more than the most capable, educated, well resourced, accomplished CEOs in the industry who obsess over this stuff. They would rather listen to the “I don’t like these games so these companies should stop making them” voice instead. Completely illogical.

I don’t think the Extraction Shooter is going to topple Battle Royale in the short term. I do think it’s a far more complex (and interesring) game type that is primed to do phenomenally well over the next 5+ years.

PvP isn’t even a well explored medium so the gamers that don’t like it don’t really understand its potential. Most don’t like the past iterations of it they’ve experienced.

You said Sony and MS were not making an Extraction Shooter. I suggested both were using Marathon and DMZ 2.0.

I appreciate the response but im a little busy rn and will respond in the morning. I do value your opinion, to be honest i find it curious. theres more to you than you let on

 

[Forsete]

Yeah sure, that’s all there is

We liddrally have ZERO games. Come on bro.

 

[Kacho]

Some of these people love talking about the video game industry, more than they actually like playing games.

You love running defense for Sony and console warring more than actually playing games.

 

[EN250]

This dumbass fanboy of his own game is about to release GAAS flop after GAAS flop with Horizon colaborations in between, how nice...

 

[Bojji]

J&D and R&C were surely bigger than SH2.
But also, this obsession over heavy hitters is kind of damning. Realistically, you don't *need* more than one or two heavy hitters per year, with a bunch of smaller games across the months helping to diversify the output.
Sony had GT3 and J&D in 2001, R&C in 2002, R&C2 in 2003, R&C3 and GT4 in 2004 and God of War in 2005. They also had a bunch of smaller games that helped to fill their respective years.
Plus, when you look at the equivalent of Ape Escape 2 in PS5, Astro Bot, being critically acclaimed and winning GOTY (first SIE release in the PS5 gen to do so), you need to ask yourself if heavy hitters are all what you really need and not just GOOD games in general.

Oh, I want good games. Personally I don't care about sales (that's publishers problems).

But heavy hitters are the ones that come to mind first after ~20 years.

 

[Barakov]

Uncharted 2 was really good

Apart from fighting those muscle-bound smurfs in the final act. But yeah, apart from that Uncharted 2 was pretty good.

 

[rofif]

Apart from fighting those muscle-bound smurfs in the final act. But yeah, apart from that Uncharted 2 was pretty good.

they were nerfed in the remaster and it's fine now !

 

[nial]

Oh, I want good games. Personally I don't care about sales (that's publishers problems).

So with that mind, I'd be curious to know what's wrong with Sony's 2024 and 2025 lineup (Astro Bot, Rise of the Ronin, Stellar Blade, DS2, Lost Soul Aside, Ghost of Yotei, etc.).

 

[mckmas8808]

Yep, bizarre choices all round and I think the fact that they selected her of all people for the role speaks volumes. That studio is rotten, top to bottom.

She worked with the studio before in the Uncharted movie. And in another video game of theirs. She's a fine actress, so I don't understand how they're rotten just because they picked her to be a main character of their next game.

if I had a time machine I'd break into Naughty Dog's studio and delete all builds and assets of Uncharted 2...
this is my version of "if you could go back and kill Hitler"

the gall to call that half automated extremely scripted 3rd person shooter immersive

Set pieces doesn't make a game "automated". There's a lot of non-scripted gameplay in Uncharted 2.

You love running defense for Sony and console warring more than actually playing games.

I'm running defense for a company that's making good Hardware that has good video games on it? Is that the foolishness that we're running with now? Am I allowed to like playing games on PlayStation hardware? And how far are you willing to attack people for having fun on Hardware that they like? Will you be attacking Nintendo fans next year when they're having fun playing games on their Switch 2?

For some reason y'all wanted to be illegal to have fun playing games. It's disgusting and humiliating to be quite honest.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

First Party? The first two years of PS2 first party consisted of Dark Cloud, Gran Turismo 3 A-spec, Twisted Metal: Black, Jak and Daxter, and Ratchet & Clank. Maybe Champions of Norrath, but that might have released in 2003. That is what I can remember off the top of my head, probably forgetting others. Sony first party content began to get going during the PS2 era. But I do recall the early years of PS3 being very lackluster compared to 360. PS4 first two years had a lot of cross platform games if I recall correctly.

This gen had a hard time getting started due to the pandemic.

It's true that every Playstation gen has had a slow start, however by now they are usually on a roll releasing one big game after another. I think this gen despite the pandemic got off to a better start than prior ones, the difference is Sony has been losing steam to their focus on gaas and PC ports. Other than Death Stranding and Ghost of Yotei this year (hopefully) what do they have on the horizon? Intergalactic could be 2 years away and it ain't gonna be big like Uncharted or Last of Us. Sony Santa Monica, Bend, etc what do they even have that will release any time soon?

Last gen from 2016 to 2020 Sony seemed to be pumping out next gen bangers left and right. This gen? Spiderman 2 didn't exactly compare to how big a deal something like Horizon Zero Dawn was at 3 years into the generation. The following year we had God of War which blew everyone away. Then we had Days Gone, Spiderman, Death Stranding, Tsushima, and Last if Us 2 in the ensuing years ...every one of those games felt like they were raising the bar for AAA in one way or another.

 

[Kacho]

I'm running defense for a company that's making good Hardware that has good video games on it?

What someone considers good hardware and good games is subjective, and "good" isn't exclusive to Sony.

Is that the foolishness that we're running with now?

The snide comment you made is foolish. I was just throwing it back at you. If you want to unpack it let me know.

Am I allowed to like playing games on PlayStation hardware?

Are people allowed to be critical of Sony without you getting butthurt about it? When I criticize Xbox you shower my posts with likes. Whenever I criticize wokeness or Sony you get big mad about it.

And how far are you willing to attack people for having fun on Hardware that they like? Will you be attacking Nintendo fans next year when they're having fun playing games on their Switch 2?

You started the attack because people weren't being positive about Sony. Don't cry now.

For some reason y'all wanted to be illegal to have fun playing games. It's disgusting and humiliating to be quite honest.

Cool straw man argument.

 

[kevboard]

Set pieces doesn't make a game "automated". There's a lot of non-scripted gameplay in Uncharted 2.

platforming is context sensitive (jump distance is variable and your jump direction gets corrected automatically, like aim assist for jumps), climbing sections have no failure state unless you force it, puzzles are only for show.

I'm not talking about set pieces alone here.
Uncharted is a very simple 3rd person shooter that has multiple tacked on and severely dumbed down "mechanics" to fake gameplay variety.
and this kind of game design has since infected the entire AAA landscape.

this is why modern AAA games don't actually have any climbing mechanics anymore, and only have climbing down predetermined rails so to speak. Uncharted 2 might not be the worst offender (its sequels got increasingly worse in that regard) but the Uncharted series as a whole is IMO one of the worst influences on modern AAA game design... especially on Sony's own games that are now little more than 1 relatively ok game mechanic (shooting, melee combat etc.) interspersed with button promt simulators for the mentally challenged (aka. their playtesters). waypoints, press to do X, NPCs constantly telling you what to do and how to solve obstacles...
Uncharted amplified all those dogshit game design elements over the years due to its influence.

all cumulated in what I see as the magnum opus of bad game design... Spider-Man 2. which at times feels like playing a parody

 

[Mattyp]

Well, you also have Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart, Gran Turismo 7, Returnal, Spider Man 2, Horizion FW, and God of War Ragnarok

Really not bad, but I don't think those games compare to the 3rd party exclusives the PS2 had.

Grab Turismo 7, Spider-Man 2, Horizon and God of War were all released on PS4 weren’t they?

Did forget Ratchet and Clank to add with Astro & Helldivers but.

 

[ProtoByte]

Just think about what you just typed.

What he typed is mostly true. Everything other than Spider-Man 2 and those 2 games were cross-gen or largely irrelevant. Helldivers isn't even exclusive, and Spider-Man 2 is getting a PC port this time next month.

They're slowing down and decreasing in quality. PS fans shouldn't stick their heads in the sand like Xbox fans did last gen. There's a clear problem here.

 

[Fake]

Can't wait for NS2 and to say fuck you Herman.

 

[BennyBlanco]

What someone considers good hardware and good games is subjective, and "good" isn't exclusive to Sony.


The snide comment you made is foolish. I was just throwing it back at you. If you want to unpack it let me know.


Are people allowed to be critical of Sony without you getting butthurt about it? When I criticize Xbox you shower my posts with likes. Whenever I criticize wokeness or Sony you get big mad about it.


You started the attack because people weren't being positive about Sony. Don't cry now.

Cool straw man argument.

Guy got triggered because I didn’t mention Astro Bot in a list of non woke games yesterday.

 

[nial]

Can't wait for NS2 and to say fuck you Herman.

Hard to not remember when Nintendo fans were all acting like this in 2020 and 2021. I believe some straight up wanted Furukawa to be fired for not holding an actual Direct in all of 2020.

 

[Bojji]

So with that mind, I'd be curious to know what's wrong with Sony's 2024 and 2025 lineup (Astro Bot, Rise of the Ronin, Stellar Blade, DS2, Lost Soul Aside, Ghost of Yotei, etc.).

Out of those games I'm super interested in DS2. Maybe I will pick up Astro bot at some point but to be honest I don't care much. Stellar Blade looks solid (based on the demo). GoY could be great, so far I'm interested. I don't know that LSA is.

And rise of the ronin doesn't look good (based on the demo as well).

My personal opinions about those games are probably irrelevant but there aren't any really big titles here. I don't care about sales but I like games with big budgets (you get what you pay for) and there is almost nothing like that from Sony (DS2 is but GoY was said to be smaller game).

 

[nial]

My personal opinions about those games are probably irrelevant but there aren't any really big titles here.

What? Ghost of Yotei and DS2 very certainly are.

 

[Bojji]

What? Ghost of Yotei and DS2 very certainly are.

DS2 for sure but Yotei was said to be smaller scale?

 

[EN250]

Sure but she’s still all dolled up there with earrings and lots of makeup etc.
There is so much stuff they’re doing wrong with that main character from a PR perspective. I don’t understand who they’re trying to fool here but it’s not going to work unless they at least somehow attempt to make her look cool or appealing. I have close by cancer experience so I know how important the hair is and doing nothing about highlighting your femininity as a woman when you’re stripped of the hair is not making things easy. It is possible that they’re attempting to do a thing about that within the game, who knows, but they can’t do it without context and explaining that when doing simple PR when trying to sell the game.

And that's where it clashes with Cuckman't kinks, see, the guy doesn't like feminity and everything sorrounding the female beauty care industry (that women are so used to and love), so you have this real life model who manages to make her choice of hairstyle works well on her with make up and stuff, but that won't happen in the game where she's straight up looks like some methhead Aang without the blue arrow pointing down on his giant forehead

Off-topic: can I ask to the anglobros why it's such a big deal for black women to do their hair? In latam, curly hair is nice and no one bitches about it, so idk why it always in movies/shows or those fashion shows/mags that black women appear either bald, or with short hair, it's illegal or something?

 

[tmlDan]

And that's where it clashes with Cuckman't kinks, see, the guy doesn't like feminity and everything sorrounding the female beauty care industry (that women are so used to and love), so you have this real life model who manages to make her choice of hairstyle works well on her with make up and stuff, but that won't happen in the game where she's straight up looks like some methhead Aang without the blue arrow pointing down in his giant forehead

Off-topic: can I ask to the anglobros why it's such a big deal for black women to do their hair? In latam, curly hair is nice and no one bitches about it, so idk why it always in movies/shows or those fashion shows/mags that black women appear either bald, or with short hair, it's illegal or something?

Why do you hate the natural beauty of women? Most men i know, including myself, prefer when a woman wears little to no make-up. I don't think any woman i know would be dolled up when bounty hunting alone in a spaceship or living in a post apocalyptic world

 

[nial]

DS2 for sure but Yotei was said to be smaller scale?

When? I just remember that they wanted to design a less repetitive open world.
And if it's just a smaller map, well, not sure how that would change it being a big budget project.

 

[clarky]

What he typed is mostly true. Everything other than Spider-Man 2 and those 2 games were cross-gen or largely irrelevant. Helldivers isn't even exclusive, and Spider-Man 2 is getting a PC port this time next month.

They're slowing down and decreasing in quality. PS fans shouldn't stick their heads in the sand like Xbox fans did last gen. There's a clear problem here.

He typed this and its not true,

"That said we’re 4 years into the PS5 and we’ve got Astrobot & Helldivers 2 that’s it."

Im not happy with this gen either but to say previous gens where better is bollocks.

 

[ProtoByte]

He typed this and its not true,

"That said we’re 4 years into the PS5 and we’ve got Astrobot & Helldivers 2 that’s it."

I don't take him saying that in the most literal sense. By "that's it", most people mean to say, "that's all that's relevant (to me and what I perceive to be 'most' people)". It can get messy, but I still take the point.

Spider-Man 2 disappointed a lot of people.
Ragnarok disappointed a lot of people.
Horizon has less of this, but only because the online discourse about Horizon has always been less overwhelmingly positive.

 

[EN250]

Why do you hate the natural beauty of women? Most men i know, including myself, prefer when a woman wears little to no make-up. I don't think any woman i know would be dolled up when bounty hunting alone in a spaceship or living in a post apocalyptic world

yeah yeah, hating, misoginist, blahblah, in this day and age, those words just don't work anymore...

that's a bs excuse and this media can have idealized versions of the best humanity has to offer, muh reality ain't working anymore, no one wants to get their fantasy escapism prefered media stained with whatever new shit coming from real life Californina and its shenanigans

Edit: also, Faye Valentine

Guess this triggers you because she's a feminine character that's also a bounty hunter, but somehow manages to look good and not like cheap ass Aang cosplay

 

[tmlDan]

yeah yeah, hating, misoginist, blahblah, in this day and age, those words just don't work anymore...

that's a bs excuse and this media can have idealized versions of the best humanity has to offer, muh reality ain't working anymore, no one wants to get their fantasy escapism prefered media stained with whatever new shit coming from real life Californina and its shenanigans

id say everything you said is a bs take, answer the question rather than going off on some "woke" tangent

edit: she's a cartoon, ND makes grounded realistic games. I love her but a character like her would look stupid in the type of games they make

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

That's not saying much. No console library holds a candle to the PS2.

Traditional console library, debatable with SNES, but the hybrid Switch's library destroys it.

 

[OuterLimits]

If only in the real world they weren't completely dominating the market and they didn't just win GOTY!
A complete crash indeed

BTW this thread is a nothing burger and the thread title is also misleading to fuel controversy. He said the focus is on a mix of both single player games and gaas stuff which has proved its potential with the huge success of Helldivers2.
Moving on from things you don't like and are just not for you instead of living in an alternative reality is an option.

Fair points. However, "dominating" the market is pretty damn easy with Microsoft imploding and the Switch in year 8 with the sequel on the horizon.

 

[FunkMiller]

The days of Sony being run by people who care about games and the people who play them, has long, long past, folks.

 

[Fess]

Why do you hate the natural beauty of women? Most men i know, including myself, prefer when a woman wears little to no make-up. I don't think any woman i know would be dolled up when bounty hunting alone in a spaceship or living in a post apocalyptic world

It’s a game, the characters aren’t real people, they’re just there to make a product more interesting and that’s easier if you give them some cool hair or makeup or some other thing that makes them more interesting.

If someone made a game about an ordinary soccer mom going to the grocery store without makeup and nice clothes I would advice them to not have the main character front and center as PR to sell the game but something else that’s more interesting.

It’s basic knowledge how to do PR. Like Lara Croft had big boobs in a tight top and shorts and dual pistols. Cloud Strife has spiky hair and a huge sword. No iconic main character designs are plain boring and simply made for what’s actually needed to survive an apocalypse or being a bounty hunter or whatever the game is about. Plain boring is not a good selling point.

 

[OuterLimits]

People are easy to forget how slow the previous gens started.

PS2 was fucking anemic for a good few years.

2001 was a fantastic year for PS2. Now, if you said PS3 I would agree, but the early years on PS2 were phenomenal.

 

[tmlDan]

It’s a game, the characters aren’t real people, they’re just there to make a product more interesting and that’s easier if you give them some cool hair or makeup or some other thing that makes them more interesting.

If someone made a game about an ordinary soccer mom going to the grocery store without makeup and nice clothes I would advice them to not have the main character front and center as PR to sell the game but something else that’s more interesting.

It’s basic knowledge how to do PR. Like Lara Croft had big boobs in a tight top and shorts and dual pistols. Cloud Strife has spiky hair and a huge sword. No iconic main character designs are plain boring and simply made for what’s actually needed to survive an apocalypse or being a bounty hunter or whatever the game is about. Plain boring is not a good selling point.

in ND games they're extremely grounded, so they try to portray real people....so yea, its their style.

 

[Fess]

in ND games they're extremely grounded, so they try to portray real people....so yea, its their style.

Then I think they did a mistake to focus on the character.

If they had just had the part with the record starting to play and space ship blasting away, and the planet surface segment with the light saber knockoff and someone not really shown in detail rushing up to smack the droid, then everybody would be excited.

But they focused on a lady without any remarkable features and even without makeup shaving her head. And they do this in 2024 when people in general are tired of gender confusion talks and femininity getting shamed left and right in the west.

It’s just tonedeaf PR work really.

 

[tmlDan]

Then I think they did a mistake to focus on the character.

If they had just had the part with the record starting to play and space ship blasting away, and the planet surface segment with the light saber knockoff and someone not really shown in detail rushing up to smack the droid, then everybody would be excited.

But they focused on a lady without any remarkable features and even without makeup shaving her head. And they do this in 2024 when people in general are tired of gender confusion talks and femininity getting shamed left and right in the west.

It’s just tonedeaf PR work really.

but why do we say this of video games and not movies? i haven't seen a single movie where the main character "looked" remarkable.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

id say everything you said is a bs take, answer the question rather than going off on some "woke" tangent

edit: she's a cartoon, ND makes grounded realistic games. I love her but a character like her would look stupid in the type of games they make

Neither Abby or Jordan are realistic or grounded.

In a fantasy game like Intergalactic they can make whatever they fancy, via transhumanism. But calling that "realistic" in opposition to Faye is so wrong. For starters, Faye doesn't look like a man, which makes her more realistic by default.

 

[Fess]

but why do we say this of video games and not movies? i haven't seen a single movie where the main character "looked" remarkable.

Then you haven’t seen many movies. But when doing PR in trailers for ”unremarkable” movie characters they don’t focus on the character unless it’s a ”omg the makeup work is insane!”-thing like with The Penguin or Monster. And actresses are usually stylized to the max in launch interviews, can look like they just walked off the Oscar gala or something.

But this Jordan character is just unusually bland tbh, I think ND is stumbling badly here. Joel was like 1000 times more interesting in looks alone. And Nathan Drake was a cool Indiana Jones for a younger audience.

 

[tmlDan]

Then you haven’t seen many movies. But when doing PR in trailers for ”unremarkable” movie characters they don’t focus on the character unless it’s a ”omg the makeup work is insane!”-thing like with The Penguin or Monster. And actresses are usually stylized to the max in launch interviews, can look like they just walked off the Oscar gala or something.

But this Jordan character is just unusually bland tbh, I think ND is stumbling badly here. Joel was like 1000 times more interesting in looks alone. And Nathan Drake was a cool Indiana Jones for a younger audience.

Joel is a generic bearded man, he's not remarkable looking at all, neither is Ellie, neither is Nathan Drake...they're just normal looking men

 

[tmlDan]

Neither Abby or Jordan are realistic or grounded.

In a fantasy game like Intergalactic they can make whatever they fancy, via transhumanism. But calling that "realistic" in opposition to Faye is so wrong. For starters, Faye doesn't look like a man, which makes her more realistic by default.

I bet you less than 0.0000000001% of women have her physique, it is definitely LESS realistic.

 

[T-0800]

If only in the real world they weren't completely dominating the market and they didn't just win GOTY!
A complete crash indeed

BTW this thread is a nothing burger and the thread title is also misleading to fuel controversy. He said the focus is on a mix of both single player games and gaas stuff which has proved its potential with the huge success of Helldivers2.
Moving on from things you don't like and are just not for you instead of living in an alternative reality is an option.