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Fighting Games Weekly | April 7-13 | Smash our expectations

The Japanese have a bizarre way of being 10 years ahead of us in some ways, but 10-20 years behind us in others. The internet is no exception.

did you know that although being a technologically advanced country, the japanese have almost minimal experience and interactions with PCs? it's mobile or bust. which is understandable given the amount of space a pc can take in a small tokyo apartment.

hence the reluctance by japanese companies to make full-flegded games for PC outside of powerpoint slide dating sims.
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
did you know that although being a technologically advanced country, the japanese have almost minimal experience and interactions with PCs? it's mobile or bust. which is understandable given the amount of space a pc can take in a small tokyo apartment.

hence the reluctance by japanese companies to make full-flegded games for PC outside of powerpoint slide dating sims.
Yup, and their banking system is also pretty dated compared to ours. They're still a predominantly cash society, and credit still involves a lot of loan-sharking.
 
They need to call Sp00ky. Hell, Madcatz dragged him out to Tokyo for the Capcom Cup qualifier. You could probably pay him in doujins and games of Melty Blood.

Seriously though, I don't get why their streams are constantly so bad, especially since the streaming hardware available in Japan is pretty damn good IIRC. Nico and Twitch sucking in Japan doesn't help, though.

Exactly. The tech is there, there are definitely people who know how to do it and do it well.
http://www.twitch.tv/team/jsa
These guys alone, especially their "leader" Maya stream at 1080p or 720p above. Maya helped all these people get their stream quality up to snuff, all streaming from Japan, most of which are just casually streaming stuff but the quality is there. There is honestly just less and less of an excuse to have the stream quality they have in fucking 2014. I mean hell just look at the guilty gear videos. This shit is direct feed but its so low quality that those people who were sneaking videos with their ipod were getting better quality video than the stuff coming out now.

Nico just compounds the problem because they are asking for money even without knowing the quality we will get while considering what we can expect given the past. It just pissed me off everytime lol.

Nico has become a major mobile service, most people pay it as a part of their phone bill but in general theres no excuse for the japanese fgc to put out the quality they do, when random girl can pop out her laptop and use the webcam and get 20x the video and audio.
 

Kumubou

Member
fax machines
And their ATMs not being 24 hours, and closed outright on holidays. That I'll never get. But the ATMs at every post office are a godsend, especially for foreign travelers as the JP Post ones are the only ones I know of that reliably take international bank cards.

I want to know what the hell they do so that cell phones still work even with half a million people in a single venue -- that's some real magic.
 

Tik-Tok

Member
Ultradavid, I want you to know that I fell asleep to the soothing sounds of your voice last night, and woke up to James Chen ranting about how he gets super salty or something like that.

happy-then-angry-o.gif
 

LegatoB

Member
And their ATMs not being 24 hours, and closed outright on holidays. That I'll never get. But the ATMs at every post office are a godsend, especially for foreign travelers as the JP Post ones are the only ones I know of that reliably take international bank cards.

I want to know what the hell they do so that cell phones still work even with half a million people in a single venue -- that's some real magic.
The ATMs in 7-11 stores also play nice with international cards. They're not as common as some of the other chains, but it's worth the walk to re-up on cash.
 

Beckx

Member
Pumped for Smash. Smash Run seems like it could be a really fun mode (obviously not a competitive mode).

Still love everything I've seen about Little Mac so far. I'm shit at recoveries anyway.
 

SimSimIV

Member
Ultradavid, I want you to know that I fell asleep to the soothing sounds of your voice last night, and woke up to James Chen ranting about how he gets super salty or something like that.

happy-then-angry-o.gif

Has there been a UltraChen after the Blaze Blue one?:) And if so, what were the major topics? (Unless you were sleeping and don't know)
 
R

Retro_

Unconfirmed Member
I think I'll finally pick-up a 3DS for Smash Bros

Still hoping Bayonetta makes it in. Both games should be dropping this Summer
 

jbug617

Banned
Gama no abura was probably the best Japanese streamer. Those Team NSB events were great. Too bad he stopped streaming.
 

Nyoro SF

Member
The ATMs in 7-11 stores also play nice with international cards. They're not as common as some of the other chains, but it's worth the walk to re-up on cash.

People told me this before I visited Japan in 2007 and every 7-11 rejected my VISA card. :(
 

Shito

Member
When I go to Japan, I take all my travel budget in cash beforehand, and voilà.
That acts both as a "I won't spend more than that" measure, and "I overestimated the amount I really needed, now I *HAVE* to spend it all on stupid shits hahaHAHAHA !".
 

Tik-Tok

Member
Has there been a UltraChen after the Blaze Blue one?:) And if so, what were the major topics? (Unless you were sleeping and don't know)

I think they happen every Tuesday but I'm not sure.
Last night I caught them talking about Smash Bros and Divekick Addition Edition and then I passed out. It's on pretty late for me cause I'm on the East Coast.
 

hitsugi

Member
And their ATMs not being 24 hours, and closed outright on holidays. That I'll never get. But the ATMs at every post office are a godsend, especially for foreign travelers as the JP Post ones are the only ones I know of that reliably take international bank cards.

I want to know what the hell they do so that cell phones still work even with half a million people in a single venue -- that's some real magic.

Yup. The post offices were a god send for my wife and I when we went out to Japan last year
 

SimSimIV

Member
I think they happen every Tuesday but I'm not sure.
Last night I caught them talking about Smash Bros and Divekick Addition Edition and then I passed out. It's on pretty late for me cause I'm on the East Coast.

Which means I could probably catch them when I wake up as I live in Norway:p Thanks.. I don't think those topics will have me look up the Archives though! Hope we will have some match analysis when the 240p quality USF4 footage starts flowing
 

Kimosabae

Banned
In other fighters, I'd agree with you, but Super Smash Bros. already has like a billion options that aren't even glanced at in tournament settings since it's just the kind of game where there's a bunch of fun modes and variations that aren't based around a standard ruleset.
The custom mode isn't gonna be stillborn because a bunch of people who don't play tourney Smash are gonna look at it and be like "whoa look at all this crazy shit we can do" and then they'll do it.

I was largely considering the competitive scene and any groups willing to develop a standard ruleset amongst themselves. It being a separate mode gives it a stigma on its own (I know, somewhat ironic considering the scene).

The core gameplay has hardly evolved since Melee, when there's so much more they can do, without convoluting its presentation through mode/content bloat or its accessibility.

What Brawl and these upcoming games make me think of are the Japanese equivalent of Western AAA tumescence. The multiplayer can't be shoehorned in, since it was there from the start, so you keep tacking on these other (meaningless) distractions to add bullet points to the back of your box and ad campaigns. Meanwhile, the core gameplay either devolves from some lofty (often times nostalgic) standard or changes little, which is meaningless to some, great for some, and spiteful and horrible to others. In the end, it doesn't matter, because the perceived value of the product ultimately outshines how the game actually plays in relation to its predecessors and sells to the average consumer anyways. Then some sit back some months later and can't put their finger on what wasn't the same.

The hype surrounding the Direct kinda falls into my point. In this thread in particular.

What are you guys hyped about? You know nothing about how the game plays. How the game feels. But you're hyped because you were presented Little Mac? And Pokemon? Because Sakurai GIFS? Trophy guessing games? A mode that was thrown in in hopes to salvage ideas that were tossed to the cutting-room floor?

What about how precise the control over your most interested character is going to be? What about the game's speed? What about the tension of the edge-guard game? In what capacity is that relevant? Any new additions to the baseline mechanics, such as the Toadstool jump in Brawl? Hopefully something more meaningful? How are the physics? How is controlling Mario going to feel? etc. etc. I'd think being fighting game players, you'd all care more about that stuff.

It seems like what happens when certain developers/designers stick around too long, is that they stop thinking about pure mechanics and dynamics and they start thinking more about content and presentation. The majority of the fan base follows suit, and I think neither content, nor presentation, actually make a game good.
 
For stuff like Edition Select and custom movesets, let the game come out and people play it for a bit before siding with one or the other side on if it should be used in any kind of serious play.

I think Edition Select will end up being a side-tournament mode for fun, and I have a hunch that the move swap stuff in Smash will end up being broken somehow, but you need to actually muck about with it before deciding.
 
No hype allowed guys

Edit: I'm hype because what I'm seeing looks cool

Wii Fit Trainer and Mac look interesting. They look like they could have interesting tools for fighting.

No one will be able to say how the game feels until we get to play it but they shouldn't mean we can't get excited over possibilities of what we can do in the game or with certain characters.
 

Infinite

Member
I was largely considering the competitive scene and any groups willing to develop a standard ruleset amongst themselves. It being a separate mode gives it a stigma on its own (I know, somewhat ironic considering the scene).

The core gameplay has hardly evolved since Melee, when there's so much more they can do, without convoluting its presentation through mode/content bloat or its accessibility.

What Brawl and these upcoming games make me think of are the Japanese equivalent of Western AAA tumescence. The multiplayer can't be shoehorned in, since it was there from the start, so you keep tacking on these other (meaningless) distractions to add bullet points to the back of your box and ad campaigns. Meanwhile, the core gameplay either devolves from some lofty (often times nostalgic) standard or changes little, which is meaningless to some, great for some, and spiteful and horrible to others. In the end, it doesn't matter, because the perceived value of the product ultimately outshines how the game actually plays in relation to its predecessors and sells to the average consumer anyways. Then some sit back some months later and can't put their finger on what wasn't the same.

The hype surrounding the Direct kinda falls into my point. In this thread in particular.

What are you guys hyped about? You know nothing about how the game plays. How the game feels. But you're hyped because you were presented Little Mac? And Pokemon? Because Sakurai GIFS? Trophy guessing games? A mode that was thrown in in hopes to salvage ideas that were tossed to the cutting-room floor?

What about how precise the control over your most interested character is going to be? What about the game's speed? What about the tension of the edge-guard game? In what capacity is that relevant? Any new additions to the baseline mechanics, such as the Toadstool jump in Brawl? Hopefully something more meaningful? How are the physics? How is controlling Mario going to feel? etc. etc. I'd think being fighting game players, you'd all care more about that stuff.

It seems like what happens when certain developers/designers stick around too long, is that they stop thinking about pure mechanics and dynamics and they start thinking more about content and presentation. The majority of the fan base follows suit, and I think neither content, nor presentation, actually make a game good.

I'm hyped because I'm interested in playing the game; it looks really fun. And yes people actually do know how it plays.
 
I think neither content, nor presentation, actually make a game good.

This is such a weird ass thing to say. Its one of those mantras the real hardcore gamers like to throw around, how they're all about "mechanics" and "gameplay" and aesthetics/presentation/content doesn't matter. Like they don't go hand and hand. Like Melee would have been 1/10th as popular as it was if it looked like completely shit and didn't have much content.

I mean I guess Smash 4 could turn out to play like shit, but then again...so could every video game ever until you get your hands on it. God forbid people get excited about a visually interesting game that looks like it could be fun to play.
 
There is something in saying a game needs to get its fundamentals right before anything else. Marvel 3 is a terrible game objectively but it gets the fundamentals of being fun to play down pat, so it is very popular.
 

oneida

Cock Strain, Lifetime Warranty
pre-release hype can blow up in your face but is super important for a game's longevity.
 

oneida

Cock Strain, Lifetime Warranty
Dat Brawl hype was downright poisonous.

Never again

wasn't here for it - actually, I haven't played Smash since 64.

still, how often does a game come out of the blue and develop a scene based off of hearsay? you can probably think of some examples - Street Fighter II most famously, but even arguably something like Guilty Gear which is a lot more popular now than it was ten years ago - but think about all the FGs that were born into obscurity and faded into oblivion.

don't fight smash hype as unjustified. maybe it is, who cares? let people be excited about the game because what if it's good?
 

Conceited

mechaniphiliac
The worst part about Triforce being a complete bumbling buffoon is that we won't get to see Dieminion again this week at NLBC.

Not all bad though, Smug/Rico/Sanford is the most interesting and entertaining trifecta in fighting games right now.
 

nycfurby

Dhalsim's Max CPM Emporium
If restreams were the issue then wtf! There's dozns of restreams done by Japanese ppl for our events, they are hard to find because twitch is ass and impossible to find shit without the link. Japan's fgc is being kept in the dark ages with these low quality streams and paywalls.

I can agree with you on the low quality streams coming out of Nico but not the paywall. I don't agree with their price points but yeah...the only way youre going to be able to even fly these people out is if you monetize the league in the first place. i see topanga as a pioneer on this front. this isnt the first ppv theyve done..i bet theyve made profit from japanese viewers for a while. That being said, I'm all for supporting people that support me (the broadcaster back) because it's hard to monetize content but this is nuts
 

vulva

Member
I was largely considering the competitive scene and any groups willing to develop a standard ruleset amongst themselves. It being a separate mode gives it a stigma on its own (I know, somewhat ironic considering the scene).

The core gameplay has hardly evolved since Melee, when there's so much more they can do, without convoluting its presentation through mode/content bloat or its accessibility.

What Brawl and these upcoming games make me think of are the Japanese equivalent of Western AAA tumescence. The multiplayer can't be shoehorned in, since it was there from the start, so you keep tacking on these other (meaningless) distractions to add bullet points to the back of your box and ad campaigns. Meanwhile, the core gameplay either devolves from some lofty (often times nostalgic) standard or changes little, which is meaningless to some, great for some, and spiteful and horrible to others. In the end, it doesn't matter, because the perceived value of the product ultimately outshines how the game actually plays in relation to its predecessors and sells to the average consumer anyways. Then some sit back some months later and can't put their finger on what wasn't the same.

The hype surrounding the Direct kinda falls into my point. In this thread in particular.

What are you guys hyped about? You know nothing about how the game plays. How the game feels. But you're hyped because you were presented Little Mac? And Pokemon? Because Sakurai GIFS? Trophy guessing games? A mode that was thrown in in hopes to salvage ideas that were tossed to the cutting-room floor?

What about how precise the control over your most interested character is going to be? What about the game's speed? What about the tension of the edge-guard game? In what capacity is that relevant? Any new additions to the baseline mechanics, such as the Toadstool jump in Brawl? Hopefully something more meaningful? How are the physics? How is controlling Mario going to feel? etc. etc. I'd think being fighting game players, you'd all care more about that stuff.

It seems like what happens when certain developers/designers stick around too long, is that they stop thinking about pure mechanics and dynamics and they start thinking more about content and presentation. The majority of the fan base follows suit, and I think neither content, nor presentation, actually make a game good.

By this same logic when SF4 was announced and small bits of information about the roster, without knowing how many frames Ryu's DP would be on start up, players had no reason to be interested. Believe it or not, rosters matter to people.

As for your reasoning that information about the game wasn't given, how about them taking the time to mention some (albeit vague) attempts at rebalancing? The direct also showcased some examples of the purposes of some moves to give you an idea of how the characters play. These are all factors relating to how the game plays. Little Mac having super meter is something that interested me, for example. Being given a run down on how he's expected to be played (ground game, not much aerial advantage) also interested me.

I'm not really sure what you expected from the Smash Direct, but I think it basically delivered on all reasonable fronts to promote the game and provide some information to the already interested/invested. In what world does a video like that not deserve hype from a userbase that's interested?
 
wasn't here for it - actually, I haven't played Smash since 64.

still, how often does a game come out of the blue and develop a scene based off of hearsay? you can probably think of some examples - Street Fighter II most famously, but even arguably something like Guilty Gear which is a lot more popular now than it was ten years ago - but think about all the FGs that were born into obscurity and faded into oblivion.

don't fight smash hype as unjustified. maybe it is, who cares? let people be excited about the game because what if it's good?

I wasn't on GAF but I followed the Dojo religiously. Man Brawl became a letdown.

And don't worry Oneida you played the best Smash game.
 
I mean, I guess alternately you could always just sit around pouting for several months about a video game and then write long critiques about how it isn't much good. I mean, that sounds like a fun direction your life can take concerning this situation.
 

Crocodile

Member
I was largely considering the competitive scene and any groups willing to develop a standard ruleset amongst themselves. It being a separate mode gives it a stigma on its own (I know, somewhat ironic considering the scene).

The core gameplay has hardly evolved since Melee, when there's so much more they can do, without convoluting its presentation through mode/content bloat or its accessibility.

What Brawl and these upcoming games make me think of are the Japanese equivalent of Western AAA tumescence. The multiplayer can't be shoehorned in, since it was there from the start, so you keep tacking on these other (meaningless) distractions to add bullet points to the back of your box and ad campaigns. Meanwhile, the core gameplay either devolves from some lofty (often times nostalgic) standard or changes little, which is meaningless to some, great for some, and spiteful and horrible to others. In the end, it doesn't matter, because the perceived value of the product ultimately outshines how the game actually plays in relation to its predecessors and sells to the average consumer anyways. Then some sit back some months later and can't put their finger on what wasn't the same. I mean being critical is fine and all but you just sound like a wet blanket - the epitome of "nofunallowed.jpeg".

The hype surrounding the Direct kinda falls into my point. In this thread in particular.

What are you guys hyped about? You know nothing about how the game plays. How the game feels. But you're hyped because you were presented Little Mac? And Pokemon? Because Sakurai GIFS? Trophy guessing games? A mode that was thrown in in hopes to salvage ideas that were tossed to the cutting-room floor?

What about how precise the control over your most interested character is going to be? What about the game's speed? What about the tension of the edge-guard game? In what capacity is that relevant? Any new additions to the baseline mechanics, such as the Toadstool jump in Brawl? Hopefully something more meaningful? How are the physics? How is controlling Mario going to feel? etc. etc. I'd think being fighting game players, you'd all care more about that stuff.

It seems like what happens when certain developers/designers stick around too long, is that they stop thinking about pure mechanics and dynamics and they start thinking more about content and presentation. The majority of the fan base follows suit, and I think neither content, nor presentation, actually make a game good.

Jeez dude did you post that whilst wearing a monocle and sipping a cup of tea with your pinky extended? This Smash hype cycle is no different than any hype cycle for any fighting game, or heck any game, ever. Lots of sweet content was shown and many concerns people had from Brawl are being addressed (not all or perhaps not to our exact liking but its clear Sakurai is aware of them). It's also impossible to answer several of your questions before the game is out in the wild (same with any other fighting game). So far the game looks fun, the end. Being critical and keeping a cool head is all good but you sound more like a wet blanket right now - the epitome of "nofunallowed.jpeg".
 

kirblar

Member
There is something in saying a game needs to get its fundamentals right before anything else. Marvel 3 is a terrible game objectively but it gets the fundamentals of being fun to play down pat, so it is very popular.
People vastly underestimate the important of intangibles like Art/UI design.
 

Nyoro SF

Member
Yeah I'm keeping my hype for the new Smash under wraps until I see a proper full set of gameplay. Brawl was such a letdown.
 

Infinite

Member
tbh if the game has proper hit stun then I can live with that from a competitive stand point. That wasn't addressed yet but that's something were going to have experience once we actually start playing it. This is the case for every fighting game ever or even every game ever. I don't recall capcom releasing the frames for ryu's DP before the game was out
 
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