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Final Fantasy VII Remake: Nomura Confirms Combat is Action Based
- Thread starter Exentryk
- Start date
ethomaz
Banned
Different names for the same think.
The "open world" in FFXV is similar to "world map" in FFVII... same characteristics, same pourpose.
If you include optional fetch quests in FFVII "world map" then you say it exactly the same.
ethomaz
Banned
You can go anywhere you want in the FFVII "world map" too... you can choose what location visit, what dungeon go, what event finish, etc.
FFXV is a linear experience if choose go direct to the story just like FFVII "world map" if you choose direct go to story.
You can say FFXV start more "open" (that was a bad beginning imo) and FFVII become more and more open as you unlock vehicles (that can be early in the game with Chocobos - another optional quest - or in the middle via story) but that didn't change both are similar "open world" experience.
A good example is that you can pretty early unlock new playable characters in FFVII or choose never unlock at all... it is optional and can be found exploring the "open world".
Icyflamez96
Member
Only near the end. Most of FFVII has a fairly linear progression.
As someone who grew up loving FF it's been interesting watching them try as hard as they can to make me stop.
It's whatever. I guess they lost me years ago.
All someone has to do is make a turn based JRPG that combines elements from Mario RPGs with Chrono Trigger's dual techs and throw that over a pulpy romping adventure and I'll be back.
I say this cuz I don't think FF is ever gonna play it complete straight with their combat ever again.
It's whatever. I guess they lost me years ago.
All someone has to do is make a turn based JRPG that combines elements from Mario RPGs with Chrono Trigger's dual techs and throw that over a pulpy romping adventure and I'll be back.
I say this cuz I don't think FF is ever gonna play it complete straight with their combat ever again.
shamo42
Member
I feel the same. For me the FFXV battle system was a mess. With action based combat the FFVII remake is dead to me now. I guess I'll just watch the summons on Youtube.
Im playing turned based p5 on my ps4. Its glorious. Dunno what's wrong with you but it's sad.
Resistance100
Member
Disappointing sure I'll still get it. But turn based combat was half the reason I loved that game
Necro900
Member
Eh, I've played a ton of FFXV even though my idea of Final Fantasy involves turn-based battles and.. action-based combat kinda worked in that context, but I really think turn based would've made the game a million times better.
I don't want to dash through a Final Fantasy while just mindlessly pressing O and using the occasional ability again. I want full control over my party and my strategies.
Surprised to see all these "Turn based is old" posts on an enthusiast forum, though. Turn based is exactly as current as action-based.
I mean, I'm happy for you if you're the target audience of this new path FF games took, but please don't shit on something just because you don't like it.
I do like action games, I just think action rpg is not the best choice for a FF game, given how well worked past FFs' battle systems and how epic yet strategic some battles could be.
I don't want to dash through a Final Fantasy while just mindlessly pressing O and using the occasional ability again. I want full control over my party and my strategies.
Surprised to see all these "Turn based is old" posts on an enthusiast forum, though. Turn based is exactly as current as action-based.
I mean, I'm happy for you if you're the target audience of this new path FF games took, but please don't shit on something just because you don't like it.
I do like action games, I just think action rpg is not the best choice for a FF game, given how well worked past FFs' battle systems and how epic yet strategic some battles could be.
Pretty much. Most of disc 1 & 2 is a straight line jaunt through locations on a map. What you can and cannot do is incredibly controlled. Also, by the time you can go everywhere, the usefulness of most locations is at an end.
Electric Lady
Neo Member
I thought it was pretty obvious it was intended to be action oriented awhile back. I love action RPG'S, but I prefer turn based, and have a real desire for it after hating FFXIII and being lukewarm on XV.
More than that, though, a big part of the excitement of the new game for me was getting to play through it with my sister, who pretty much only plays Civ and XCOM style games these days. Growing up my siblings and I were way into the Final Fantasy's, and she was really looking forward to this remake. However, because of the combat, I'm afraid it's going to be way too difficult for her to get a handle on the controls. She hasn't touched any non strategy game since the PS1, maaaaaybe the PS2. I've realized recently just how tough action oriented games can be for beginners, having gotten my brother back into gaming in the past year with titles like Dark Souls, RE7, Soma, and the like. He really struggles with camera controls sometimes, especially when he panics, and it occurred to me how much practice it takes for most people, especially as they age.
I get that other people love the action oriented combat, I'm just bummed to see it in this particular game, as the FF's being so accessible from a gameplay standpoint was a huge part of what got me into gaming in the first place, and it seems like it shuts out some of that older audience who loved the old games and might have been into this new one.
All that being said, I'll still check it out, and try not to be too harsh on it just because it's not the remake that I personally wanted.
More than that, though, a big part of the excitement of the new game for me was getting to play through it with my sister, who pretty much only plays Civ and XCOM style games these days. Growing up my siblings and I were way into the Final Fantasy's, and she was really looking forward to this remake. However, because of the combat, I'm afraid it's going to be way too difficult for her to get a handle on the controls. She hasn't touched any non strategy game since the PS1, maaaaaybe the PS2. I've realized recently just how tough action oriented games can be for beginners, having gotten my brother back into gaming in the past year with titles like Dark Souls, RE7, Soma, and the like. He really struggles with camera controls sometimes, especially when he panics, and it occurred to me how much practice it takes for most people, especially as they age.
I get that other people love the action oriented combat, I'm just bummed to see it in this particular game, as the FF's being so accessible from a gameplay standpoint was a huge part of what got me into gaming in the first place, and it seems like it shuts out some of that older audience who loved the old games and might have been into this new one.
All that being said, I'll still check it out, and try not to be too harsh on it just because it's not the remake that I personally wanted.
MeisterLeder
Banned
Uhm FFXVs combat changed when Tabata took over....
So people really shouldnt take that as a indication what Nomura will do
ethomaz
Banned
At middle of Disc one you are all already is full open to explore everything... even early depending how you do optional events.
The main quest is controlled but before ends disc one you are already free to do what you want.
The main quest in FFXV is incredible controlled too... even more than FFVII.
The only thing tha lacks in FFVII are dozen of fetch quests in the "world map".
No, it's not quite like that. It plays out on a straight line through the map.
You have Midgar.
Then you have the Kalm lands.
Then you have the Junon area.
Then you have Gold Coast.
Then you have Gold Saucer.
Then you get the vehicle that lets you go to Cosmo Canyon.
Then you go to Nibelheim.
Then you go to Rocket Town.
Then your first branch appears, you can detour to Wutai.
Then you go to Temple of the Ancients.
Then off to Bone Village.
Then the entire rigmarole through the snow that gets you to North Crater.
You get the idea.
At any point (mostly) you get the option to go backwards. The only thing to do of note by going backwards is the Condor Reactor mission. Outside of that, progression is strictly managed. Pretty much as with something like Secret Of Mana. The story requires you to experience in order. FFVIII was the same. FFIX also.
The only time that you get a change to branch out is when the airship comes along, which is the midpoint of Disc 2. Even then, the available locations are rather threadbare. Fart about in the undersea plane, do the Chocobo grinding so you can do that weird foresty place and some of the few side oddities. Most other places you have exhausted as part of the tour de location you are taken through.
I remember actually being disappointed when playing the game that there was pretty much no reward for going off the beaten track. This was coming from someone who had loved Link To The Past on my previous console and loved the reward for poking around, looking at the environment, the freedom of tackling elements in the game (or even missing segments out).
ethomaz
Banned
But that is the same for FFXV "open world".
The main quest is supposed to be linear but the optional stuff is there to explore and do whatever you want.
Like I said maybe if you add dozen of fetch quests it will feel more like FFXV but the way it was create was similar... I don't see differences at all... it could be improved in FFVII? Yes, a lot but the base is there exactly like FFXV.
BTW the start of this talk was that "open world" like FFXV can't be done with turn-based and I just showed it already existed on FF before it goes to action-based... you already have the structure in old games... it just need improve with more options (in this case I mean really quantity).
PS. I'm talking about FFVII more because it is the more popular but FF only lost this characteristics after FFX... it is cool you to remember Zelda because I consider it the same "open world" structure... well remember Demon's Crest? Another game on SNES like the "open world" structure found in FFXV.
CrispyBoar
Banned
I'm not saying all ARPG's are bad, because there are some good ones out there, but the truth is that Square sucks at making ARPG's within FF.
I'm jealous that you've played FFVII Remake.
CrispyBoar
Banned
TheEndOfItAll
Neo Member
How many games is that? Three? Do you count Dirge of Cerberus? Does anyone? And many people like Crisis Core and FFXV, despite their flaws.
You've basically said you only like turn-based RPGs, and that's fine, but that leaves little doubt about what your opinion is going to be of something not turn-based. It doesn't mean the games are "bad".
I never played it; I'm predicting.
Your posts don't reflect that. You've outright written this game off without playing it. Forget playing it, you haven't even seen a real gameplay video. You're basically angry and irrational and I can't take that seriously.
CrispyBoar
Banned
Sorry, but it's just fucking stupid to just change the original gameplay into something just to appeal to the whiny modern fanbase that despises turn-based gameplay in which they don't know what a good turn-based RPG is when they see one. And not only that, but by calling turn-based RPG's "old hat", etc. when ARPG's are just as old as turn-based RPG's. There's already too many ARPG's on consoles, & I'd like diversity.
There's plenty of different options of turn-based gameplay (if not the same thing from the original) in which they could've implemented, like with FF X or X-2. I'll gladly take my money towards someone else who does care about us old-school fans & the kind of gameplays that we like. I'm not the only one upset about this, many old-school FF players are as well & will boycott it out of principle. I hope that this remake bombs so hard in sales, that they'll think twice before pulling that shit again.
And yes, I have seen a real gameplay video of it.
Wesley-Sigma
Member
Hoping that this plays like how Versus XIII was supposed to.
Just in the off-chance that your comment isn't shitty drive-by posting, could you point to me where the expiration date is on turn-based combat? Or any game mechanic for that matter? Also, would like to know when "action combat" will expire so that I know when I can go back to playing the RPGs that I enjoy.
thx.
I imagine it will and that has me very excited.
TRD Mr Blonde
Member
After FFXV I was done with Square anyways. I'm just glad I no longer have to bother. What a disgrace.
I love Persona but turn based just doesn't work for a mainline FF anymore. FFXV has a shit action combat system but if done right like Nier it makes cinematic RPGs much better. Turn based works for something niche like Persona but with FF pushing for open world and cinematic experience turn based just doesn't fit into that.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
Who said the game is going to be open world?
I'm not talking about the remake in particular. Just mainline FF moving forward.
Well to be fair most of what's going on here is either knee jerk drive by or arguing over FFXV and when and where the series died.
i really dont get some of you people, we already knew what type of combat system it was gonna have since the freaking PSX 2015 trailer, and only now you start posting like this was some big revelation, the only thing we dont know is how exactly it will play
and to the people bringing up XV, even though that battle system isnt bad in any way, its not the same people that are doing the Remake, and Nomuras team, frankly, has better developers where combat systems are concerned
and to the people bringing up XV, even though that battle system isnt bad in any way, its not the same people that are doing the Remake, and Nomuras team, frankly, has better developers where combat systems are concerned
Exactly. Why would anyone assume the game is turn based after watching the PSX trailer?
pretty done
Member
Can't wait to hold down circle with Cloud while sometimes hitting L1 and square.
Yeah, so no it's not Final Fantasy VII, good to know.
Look, here's the thing, initially I was fairly pleased with this news since I've wanted a half competent Final Fantasy VII for ages, but there's a critical flaw with this project. I hate to say it because the man has his fans, but Nomura has ZERO CLUE! He's all about flash and style, nothing he's touched since Kingdom Hearts has had any real substance to its gameplay, and even citing KH is being a little generous. At the end of the day, you can't just say, "we're going to make this Final Fantasy an action game. This isn't like a first person shooter, where at most the core campaign only lasts 15 or so hours. We're talking games where the core campaigns are numerous times that length, and where you need to integrate combat among numerous characters in a way that's satisfying.
Now, look at Final Fantasy XV. There's a lot in this game I rather liked actually, except the combat. Strictly speaking, the combat in FFXV was flaming garbage. Mechanically it was only barely functional. Parrying didn't work very well most of the time, a lot of rules and restrictions were arbitrary and unintuitive, and your team-mates usually didn't feel all that useful. However, even if all these things had worked correctly. The sort of combat they were going for, couldn't have remained interesting over the course of a campaign that lasted anywhere from thirty to fifty hours. Most of the bosses required no real thought, no real strategy, and all ended up feeling very similar. That's because, no matter how often you swap weapons or zip around like a highly limited version of the flash, at the end of the day, it was still thoughtless button mashing combat.
If you want combat that is going to be interesting over the length of time that lengthy RPG's cover, it can't be frantic. Frantic gameplay is not thoughtful gameplay. Thoughtful gameplay requires you to slow down and make decisions. Should I attack, or do I need to defend? Should I spam basic attacks or use my remaining MP to start throwing elemental attacks? Those are the decisions you should be making while you're in combat during a game with a lengthy storyline. Not only because RPG's are games about decisions, but also because spamming X endlessly for fourty hours can't possibly stay interesting.
Nomura doesn't get that. He only really cares about how combat looks, and not how it feels. As such, I don't have any expectation of him getting the combat right. After all, he hasn't managed that since Kingdom Hearts, and there he just stole Zelda's combat and sped it up a hair.
Look, here's the thing, initially I was fairly pleased with this news since I've wanted a half competent Final Fantasy VII for ages, but there's a critical flaw with this project. I hate to say it because the man has his fans, but Nomura has ZERO CLUE! He's all about flash and style, nothing he's touched since Kingdom Hearts has had any real substance to its gameplay, and even citing KH is being a little generous. At the end of the day, you can't just say, "we're going to make this Final Fantasy an action game. This isn't like a first person shooter, where at most the core campaign only lasts 15 or so hours. We're talking games where the core campaigns are numerous times that length, and where you need to integrate combat among numerous characters in a way that's satisfying.
Now, look at Final Fantasy XV. There's a lot in this game I rather liked actually, except the combat. Strictly speaking, the combat in FFXV was flaming garbage. Mechanically it was only barely functional. Parrying didn't work very well most of the time, a lot of rules and restrictions were arbitrary and unintuitive, and your team-mates usually didn't feel all that useful. However, even if all these things had worked correctly. The sort of combat they were going for, couldn't have remained interesting over the course of a campaign that lasted anywhere from thirty to fifty hours. Most of the bosses required no real thought, no real strategy, and all ended up feeling very similar. That's because, no matter how often you swap weapons or zip around like a highly limited version of the flash, at the end of the day, it was still thoughtless button mashing combat.
If you want combat that is going to be interesting over the length of time that lengthy RPG's cover, it can't be frantic. Frantic gameplay is not thoughtful gameplay. Thoughtful gameplay requires you to slow down and make decisions. Should I attack, or do I need to defend? Should I spam basic attacks or use my remaining MP to start throwing elemental attacks? Those are the decisions you should be making while you're in combat during a game with a lengthy storyline. Not only because RPG's are games about decisions, but also because spamming X endlessly for fourty hours can't possibly stay interesting.
Nomura doesn't get that. He only really cares about how combat looks, and not how it feels. As such, I don't have any expectation of him getting the combat right. After all, he hasn't managed that since Kingdom Hearts, and there he just stole Zelda's combat and sped it up a hair.
NoctisVsStar
Member
What does XV combat got to do FF7r? And he stoled zelda's combat? Lmao I don't even..
ãInaba Residentã
Banned
XV combat has nothing to do with this but nice post
Exentryk
Member
What does XV combat got to do FF7r? And he stoled zelda's combat? Lmao I don't even..
Haha! This thread is a great read XD
pixelation
Member
Very cool.
Never played FFXV but I have played a buncha action rpgs in the past and they leave me feeling tired pretty quickly. Whether from the button mashing, the battles taking longer than regular rpg battles, or whatevers. Sure I put thousands of hours into PSO and have replayed the .hack series way more times than most. But the initial spark of "lets sit down an continue playing game" fades pretty quickly. I can still sit there an play for hours but I just feel weary an less into it. An with FF7 being my favorite game ever which I can sit an be enthralled with playing for hours I would hope the remake would feel the same. I dun wanna feel tired or lose focus or start looking for excuses to take a break -.-;
Once you get past how bad people's opinions are...
You do know he doesnt have anything to do with XVs combat right? Much less the people working on the Remake
What does XV combat got to do FF7r? And he stoled zelda's combat? Lmao I don't even..
1st: Not only is FFXV an example of trying to tac-on a frantically paced combat system onto a campaign intended to last dozens of hours; but a lot of the combat elements in XV were envisioned by Nomura when he headed up development of the project.
Or were you not aware of Nomura's fingerprints on that game?
2: Yes, Kingdom Hearts combat was largely based on the combat style created for Legend of Zelda: The Ocarina of Time. It had a few new idea's tacked onto it, but the amount of new and original elements paled in comparison to the number of system's borrowed from OoT.
Or, what, did you think Kingdom Hearts came up with the idea of using trigger activated camera controls to strategically limit the field of gameplay to a two-dimensional plane? Cause, that was the bread and butter of Kingdom Hearts, and if you think they came up with it then, you really need to go back and read up on your gaming history.
TheEndOfItAll
Neo Member
FFXV's combat was not button-mashing, and if you think it was, of course you came away thinking it was unintuitive and clunky. Because you were doing it wrong. I doubt FFVII:R is going to be like that anyway. I fully expect a KH-type of combat.
Were you not aware that the game's combat system got completely redone when Tabata took over?